Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lunesta on December 16, 2005, at 19:30:50
This is being used for sleep, muscle aches, anxiety and depression. Anyone have any good/bad things to say or experiences with Soma. I am considering Zanaflex is this does not work.
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2005, at 21:57:07
In reply to Started Soma (carisoprodol) - any experiences?, posted by lunesta on December 16, 2005, at 19:30:50
Is soma an opiod? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on December 17, 2005, at 15:03:10
In reply to Re: Started Soma (carisoprodol) - any experiences? » lunesta, posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2005, at 21:57:07
Hi PJ
>Is soma an opiod?
No, it's a sedative ...which is marketed as a muscle relaxant.
Ed x
Posted by yxibow on December 17, 2005, at 23:46:00
In reply to Started Soma (carisoprodol) - any experiences?, posted by lunesta on December 16, 2005, at 19:30:50
> This is being used for sleep, muscle aches, anxiety and depression. Anyone have any good/bad things to say or experiences with Soma. I am considering Zanaflex is this does not work.
Soma is chemically related to Miltown, an anti-anxiety drug of the 60s, which has been removed from the formulary I believe. If Soma were released today it would probably be C-II or C-III. It is not scheduled. It has a risk of dose escalation.
That being said, I was once prescribed in the past Soma and never took it because I was afraid of some of its possible side effects (jelly like legs -- not that common). But I more recently took it -- oh my god, its like heaven for a permanent spasmotic condition I still have from the withdrawal from Tranxene (a benzodiazepine -- not that I'm against benzodiazepines but that was a bad episode). However because of all the medications I'm on currently my doctor will not prescribe it, if any of my several doctors would prescribe it at all. So you're lucky! Just be careful of not having a dose escalation, it is a very distant cousin of barbiturates.
Zanaflex was the one "new" antispasmotic/back relief agent I haven't tried. Flexeril was a god awful drug in my opinion, being very similar to tricyclics and rather anticholinergic. I currently take Robaxin at a level I can tolerate; a higher level, though never investigated for P450 interactions caused some mild serotonin syndrome like conditions because of the other antidepressant drugs I take. So I backed off. It reduces the number of times I semi-voluntarily crack my neck during the day. But its nothing like Soma on things... even half a Soma is more potent.
But I go on... good luck with it and remember to tell your doctor(s) about what other medications you take.. there are increased CNS depression associated with things like benzos, which is why I cant take it :/
Posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2005, at 23:58:17
In reply to Re: Started Soma (carisoprodol) - any experiences?, posted by yxibow on December 17, 2005, at 23:46:00
I took Miltown with valium and it cured for years my anxiety and I stopped it on my own when my anxiety went away. So they have stopped making it? It was an excellent med for me at the time. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on December 18, 2005, at 4:38:48
In reply to Re: Started Soma (carisoprodol) - any experiences? » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2005, at 23:58:17
> I took Miltown with valium and it cured for years my anxiety and I stopped it on my own when my anxiety went away. So they have stopped making it? It was an excellent med for me at the time. Fondly, Phillipa
It is closely related if not exactly a barbiturate and is C-IV. It was discontinued in the UK around 2002 and Canada as well I think. Walgreens doesnt show it but CVS still has it listed. There may be an orphan status left for it still but I doubt it will be around much longer. I wouldn't doubt that the vast majority of people can stop barbiturate drugs on their own but they pose a greater danger.
Still I must say that Soma, carisoprodol, which is metabolized to meprobamate (Miltown) in the body, is very tempting as a back relief... [there is a certain country south of here that sells it but I wont go into it for improper posting...]
-tidings
Posted by ed_uk on December 18, 2005, at 5:29:14
In reply to Re: Started Soma (carisoprodol) - any experiences? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on December 18, 2005, at 4:38:48
Hi Yxi :-)
>It is closely related if not exactly a barbiturate
Chemically, it's not a barbiturate. Pharmacologically, it resembles the short-acting barbiturates.
>It was discontinued in the UK around 2002 and Canada as well I think.
In the UK, meprobamate is available as a generic. It's pretty difficult to obtain though! Carisoprodol is available here as Carisoma. It's virtually never prescribed.
How do you find methocarbamol? Very little information is available. It's rather mysterious.
Tidings!
Ed
Posted by yxibow on December 18, 2005, at 13:25:32
In reply to Meprobamate and carisoprodol » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on December 18, 2005, at 5:29:14
> In the UK, meprobamate is available as a generic.
I should have said discontinued by most companies :)
Carisoprodol is available here as Carisoma. It's virtually never prescribed.
...and likewise
> How do you find methocarbamol? Very little information is available. It's rather mysterious.
Its OTC in Canada from what I can tell though there is a lack of PI on that site.
Find, as in information... http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/methocar.htm
though it is limited. it is in the PDR that I have around here somewhere, I think. Its produced by Watson, here. And possibly another company.
Find, as in personal experience, well, its a weak agent. It requires quite a lot to be effective and is very subtle to notice unlike Soma (double sigh).
Public Citizen as usual has put it on their "worst pills" list, including like two dozen drugs, such as Valium. But that's just my political opinion :)
- cheers
Posted by ed_uk on December 18, 2005, at 15:02:18
In reply to Re: Meprobamate and carisoprodol » ed_uk, posted by yxibow on December 18, 2005, at 13:25:32
Hi again yxi
It seems that methocarbamol (Robaxin) is chemically related to meprobamate and carisoprodol. It's interesting to compare their chemical structures.
Do you find that Robaxin makes you drowsy? How much do you take, 1500mg per dose? I guess you need to take it every few hours, it's got a very short half life.
Methocarbamol is also known as guaifenesin carbamate. It's a derivative of guaifenesin. Guaifenesin itself is used in OTC cough medicines in humans and as a muscle relaxant in horses. As far as I know, guaifenesin has been used as an adjunct to anesthesia in horses, to relax muscles. Perhaps Racer will tell us more,
Despite the widespread use of guaifenesin in medicines for chesty coughs, there's little or no evidence that it actually works. As high doses, it does seem to work as a muscle relaxant in horses though!
Guaifenesin has been claimed to be useful in the treatment of fibromyalgia. Whether it actually works is controversial. To be honest, it would make more sense to use methocarbamol because it's got a longer duration of action.
Regards
Ed
Posted by yxibow on December 19, 2005, at 1:22:14
In reply to Calling Racer for equine info :-) » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on December 18, 2005, at 15:02:18
> Hi again yxi
>
> It seems that methocarbamol (Robaxin) is chemically related to meprobamate and carisoprodol. It's interesting to compare their chemical structures.I wish it was more chemically related :)
>
> Do you find that Robaxin makes you drowsy?Possibly the initial dose. Its hard to say, I practice polypharmacy and the Seroquel is probably the most drowsy agent
How much do you take, 1500mg per dose? I guess you need to take it every few hours, it's got a very short half life.
1125 (750x1.5) t.i.d. for a total of 3375 per day. I was at 1500 per dose but there was a possible tachycardia and P450 / serotonin syndrome reaction so we backed off. Robaxin obviously existed before more rigorous drug-drug testing.
>
> Methocarbamol is also known as guaifenesin carbamate. It's a derivative of guaifenesin.
You've been reading Steve Dyer and company... I can't vouch for organic chemistry other than I can see some relation with the structure.
Guaifenesin itself is used in OTC cough medicines in humans and as a muscle relaxant in horses. As far as I know, guaifenesin has been used as an adjunct to anesthesia in horses, to relax muscles.
Curious... I find the stuff almost as bland and unexplainable as Pepto Bismol (I still don't see how a heavy metal salicylate helps the stomach).
> Despite the widespread use of guaifenesin in medicines for chesty coughs, there's little or no evidence that it actually works.Placebo has a 33% value... :)
> Guaifenesin has been claimed to be useful in the treatment of fibromyalgia. Whether it actually works is controversial.Quite controversial... not as controversial as fluoride in the water and other sky is falling things... [no offense to the believers but science doesn't hold much to it]
To be honest, it would make more sense to use methocarbamol because it's got a longer duration of action.And a caution of dose escalation, up to being hospitalized. Although I dearly would love the stuff. (Did I already say that ? :)
Cheers-J
Posted by yxibow on December 19, 2005, at 1:58:52
In reply to Re: Calling Racer for equine info :-) » ed_uk, posted by yxibow on December 19, 2005, at 1:22:14
> And a caution of dose escalation, up to being hospitalized. Although I dearly would love the stuff. (Did I already say that ? :)er, I meant carisoprodol. Anyhow. :)
Posted by ed_uk on December 19, 2005, at 2:11:09
In reply to Re: Calling Racer for equine info :-) » ed_uk, posted by yxibow on December 19, 2005, at 1:22:14
Hi J
>Robaxin obviously existed before more rigorous drug-drug testing.
See what I mean when I say it's mysterious?
>You've been reading Steve Dyer and company.....
Who's that?!
>I can't vouch for organic chemistry other than I can see some relation with the structure.
Methocarbamol = guaifenesin carbamate :-)
Regards
Ed
Posted by yxibow on December 19, 2005, at 12:11:06
In reply to Re: Calling Racer for equine info :-) » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on December 19, 2005, at 2:11:09
> Hi J
>
> >Robaxin obviously existed before more rigorous drug-drug testing.
>
> See what I mean when I say it's mysterious?
>
> >You've been reading Steve Dyer and company.....
>
> Who's that?!
>
> >I can't vouch for organic chemistry other than I can see some relation with the structure.
>
> Methocarbamol = guaifenesin carbamate :-)
>
> Regards
>
> EdOh... e.g.
One of the frequent posters of things to sci.* and
erowid about medications and things.. that's all :)
Posted by Racer on December 19, 2005, at 12:54:09
In reply to Calling Racer for equine info :-) » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on December 18, 2005, at 15:02:18
I don't know all that much about equine drugs -- unless you call them by the names my vet does... Sad, but true.
What I can tell you, though, is that horses and people are very, very different when it comes to reactions to meds. I won't give PCN injections, for instance, because if you hit a blood vessel, you can kill a horse. How many of us have had PCN drips in hospital? (And there's not much you can do if the reaction does happen. Immediate convulsions, and death within minutes if it's going to happen.) Same sort of thing with most tranqs for horses: you can't tranquilize an upset horse, the more you try, the more upset he'll get. (Hm... That's my reaction to benzos, too...)
Any idea what name I might know guaifenesin under? And even then, I don't know that I will know much more.
Posted by ed_uk on December 19, 2005, at 13:19:32
In reply to Re: Calling Racer for equine info :-), posted by yxibow on December 19, 2005, at 12:11:06
Hi J
Thanks for the link :-)
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on December 19, 2005, at 13:28:07
In reply to LOL! You sure give me credit... » ed_uk, posted by Racer on December 19, 2005, at 12:54:09
Hi Racie!
>Any idea what name I might know guaifenesin under?
It's sometimes called GGE.
'General anaesthesia: Infusions
The principal problem with contemporary (anesthetic) techniques (in horses) is the unpredictable duration of action, with the need for frequent (embarrassing) incremental dosing (clients are usually present at field operations). For this reason, and the need to provide more stable conditions, glyceryl guaiacolate ether (GGE), or guaifenesin has become increasingly popular in TIVA (total IV anesthesia) techniques.
GGE is regarded as a spinally-acting muscle relaxant and is used to provide maintenance conditions as part of several total intravenous anaesthetic techniques. It acts as a muscle relaxant and a vehicle for other drugs. Its mechanism of action is poorly understood; it acts on polysynaptic reflex arcs in the spinal cord, reticular formation and sub-cortical areas of the brain in a mephenesin-like manner. Its prominent feature is an ability to depress internuncial neurone transmission in the spinal cord without impairing breathing. In North America, GGE is considered to have CNS depressant effects beyond muscle relaxation; elsewhere, it is not used as a sole anaesthetic but always given with other CNS depressant drugs.'
Hmm, scary to think that American horses might be being operated on while they're awake - but paralysed.
Ed xx
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