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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by anodyne on October 30, 2005, at 16:12:17
Anyone had any luck with something that keeps you asleep for 8 hours. I can usually fall asleep but wake up (usally heart racing and burning up) after 6 hours. I have tried Ambien (wake up) , Remeron (sleep fot days and feel like Nyquil), Trazadone (groggy), Lunesta (wake up) and benzos (some effective).
I hate to take benzos for sleep as they make me depressed after long term use and I don't want to build up a tolerance for when I really need them. I been up and down that road and feel like I've tried every combination / routine and they all end poorly. Benzos work great but I save them for times of need.
One Pdoc suggested that I might try a really short half-life benzo that I could take in the middle of the night with the thought that it would be out of my system by morning. Has anyone tried something like this? I forget the name and turned it down in favor of Lunesta.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks
Posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2005, at 20:29:39
In reply to Waking up Early, posted by anodyne on October 30, 2005, at 16:12:17
I always wake up early a pattern of mine. And no matter what meds they give me I still wake up and have to repeat the dose. Even been on chloral hydrate, xanax, klonopin , seroquel at the same time. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on October 31, 2005, at 14:58:42
In reply to Waking up Early, posted by anodyne on October 30, 2005, at 16:12:17
Hi Dan
>One Pdoc suggested that I might try a really short half-life benzo that I could take in the middle of the night with the thought that it would be out of my system by morning. Has anyone tried something like this? I forget the name and turned it down in favor of Lunesta.
Zaleplon (Sonata) can be taken when you wake up during the night. It's not a benzo, it's similar to Ambien but has a shorter duration of action.
>I can usually fall asleep but wake up (usally heart racing and burning up) after 6 hours. I have tried Ambien (wake up) , Remeron (sleep fot days and feel like Nyquil), Trazadone (groggy), Lunesta (wake up) and benzos (some effective).
How do you respond to sedating tricyclic antidepressants?
Ed
Posted by Declan on October 31, 2005, at 16:31:04
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » anodyne, posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2005, at 20:29:39
Hi PJ, you wake up and repeat the dose and even that doesn't do it sometimes. It feels to me like my body has made this stimulant that drags me out of deep sleep. And then do you feel like sleeping all day? Who understands sleep?
Declan
Posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2005, at 18:15:38
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 31, 2005, at 16:31:04
Declan it depends what you mean by all day. While a lot of people get up early I tend to get up around 9:30 l0am. And I also stay up late at night. Usually feel better the later it is. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2005, at 21:27:06
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 31, 2005, at 16:31:04
Declan, no I wish I could sleep all day. Unfortunately I want to be on the go. Just drive in the car. Driven by someone else. I can escape the stresses I'm under if I'm not here. No dirty house, launday, grocerystore. etc. Totally dependant on others to meet my needs. And of course they never do. Sometimes my voice stutters while speaking from the stress. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 4wd on October 31, 2005, at 23:16:55
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » Phillipa, posted by Declan on October 31, 2005, at 16:31:04
> Hi PJ, you wake up and repeat the dose and even that doesn't do it sometimes. It feels to me like my body has made this stimulant that drags me out of deep sleep. And then do you feel like sleeping all day? Who understands sleep?
> Declan
Exactly! I told my pdoc that it feels like someone sneaks into my bedroom very early and hooks me up to an adrenaline IV. And then I start to get uncomfortable and wake up with this nervous jittery feeling and can't go back to sleep because it's so uncomfortable. I can't even lie there.This even happens if I take a nap in the afternoon. What is it about sleep that makes people scared when they wake up?
Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on November 1, 2005, at 0:20:07
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » Declan, posted by 4wd on October 31, 2005, at 23:16:55
Marsha, that's simple that nothing's changed. Same time same place nothing different. Fondly,Phillipa
Posted by Declan on November 1, 2005, at 11:55:04
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » Declan, posted by 4wd on October 31, 2005, at 23:16:55
But Marsha, I'll bet you haven't had that happening all your life. It started with me around the age of 40. I should be seeing if magnesium diglycinate will help (excitotoxicity) but can't muster the interest. I go to bed at 8pm and wake by 3 am. By 10am I feel like a good sleep. It's ridiculous.
Declan
Posted by 4wd on November 2, 2005, at 21:42:07
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » 4wd, posted by Declan on November 1, 2005, at 11:55:04
> But Marsha, I'll bet you haven't had that happening all your life. It started with me around the age of 40. I should be seeing if magnesium diglycinate will help (excitotoxicity) but can't muster the interest. I go to bed at 8pm and wake by 3 am. By 10am I feel like a good sleep. It's ridiculous.
> DeclanYou're right. It only started happening about a year ago. I keep stressing it to my pdoc and to the endocrinologist I saw but no one can say why it happens. My old pdoc just kept saying that early awakening was just a sign of residual depression. I couldn't (apparently) make it clear about the adrenaline feeling. I see my new pdoc again tomorrow and I'm going to tell him about how it happens even after a brief nap.
At least now I know I'm not the only one this happens to. Seems like someone could figure it out. There ought to be a thing like those Holter monitors for your heart except it would be for your brain. You'd wear the electrodes while you sleep and they'd figure out what kind of changes were going on up there causing this phenomenon.
Declan, you said this started with you when you were about forty. HOw long has it been going on? Is it every morning? Has anything at all helped it? I tried taking Klonopin before bedtime but it makes no difference.
Marsha
Posted by Declan on November 3, 2005, at 1:24:24
In reply to Re: Waking up Early, posted by 4wd on November 2, 2005, at 21:42:07
Hi Marsha, it would have been going on every night for 10 years for certain. What helps? Avoiding too much alcohol (more relevant to me than to you, probably). Avoiding too much deprenyl (or Parnate). Avoiding too much phenylalanine such as in protein shakes. Ambien, benzos and opiates help somewhat but have their own problems so they're of limited use. Chinese herbs are somewhat helpful. Other herbs too (skullcap, zizyphus, withania). 5htp may be very mildly useful. Melatonin probably not. If the issue is excitotoxicity then magnesium diglycinate may be good, probably good anyway.
But noone has a clue, IMO. Weird eh?
Declan
Posted by craiggetty on November 3, 2005, at 14:41:56
In reply to Waking up Early, posted by anodyne on October 30, 2005, at 16:12:17
This problem has been the bane of my existence! I usually go to be around 12am, then wake up at 3:30ish for a couple of hours. Then back to sleep until whenever I can afford to depending on my day (9:30 - 10:30). I don't feel rested when I awake, and will nap again the first chance I get.
I've tried all the herbal stuff to no effect. Trazadone makes me feel hungover, Sonata didn't really work (if I took it when I woke at 3:30A it would shorten that awake time, but then I feel even more tired in the morning). 0.5 Klonopin lets me sleep through the night, but I'm not rested. 0.25 Klonopin is okay, but I can't rely that I'll sleep through the night. Alcohol doesn't help, and neither does THC. It's quite frustrating. It was okay in my 20s because I would use this 2 hours AM window to get work done, but these days I'm just too damn tired. If I'm lucky I'll read a book, otherwise, I'll stare at CNN or Adult Swim.
I've had a sleep lab test done. They didn't arrive at any diagnosis (like apnea or RLS), but they found that my wake time was 150 minutes compared to the normal of 20 minutes - and this was on a night when to my knowledge I didn't wake up for that 2 hour window, but only for about 30 minutes to go to the bathroom and then have the nurse hook all the wires back up to my head. I'm supposed to have a follow-up with a neurologist to get more info, but that will take a couple of months. Until then maybe I'll try to get some Ambien.
Posted by 4wd on November 3, 2005, at 23:05:14
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » 4wd, posted by Declan on November 3, 2005, at 1:24:24
Hi Declan,
I've saved your post so I can investigate your suggestions. My pdoc today gave me Ambien CR to try. Short term for 10 days or I can use it intermittently to try and get the ocasional good nights sleep 2 or 3 times a week so I can keep going the rest of the time.
One thing did help. If I set my alarm clock for a couple of hours before I would normally wake up and take my .5mg klonopin then and go back to sleep, I would then be able to sleep long enough to get in 8 hours. But I'd still wake up scared and have to take more Klonopin which I didn't like doing.
Did you say you go to bed a 8 and get up at 3? Why? What if you went to bed at 9 or 10 and got up at 4 or 5? Or would you wake up at three anyway and get even less sleep? That's what happens to me when I try going to bed earlier. I just wake up that much earlier.
Have you ever seen a endocrinologist about this? Do you wake up nervous or just too early?
Marsha
Posted by 4wd on November 3, 2005, at 23:14:54
In reply to Re: Waking up Early, posted by craiggetty on November 3, 2005, at 14:41:56
> This problem has been the bane of my existence! I usually go to be around 12am, then wake up at 3:30ish for a couple of hours. Then back to sleep until whenever I can afford to depending on my day (9:30 - 10:30). I don't feel rested when I awake, and will nap again the first chance I get.
>
> I've tried all the herbal stuff to no effect. Trazadone makes me feel hungover, Sonata didn't really work (if I took it when I woke at 3:30A it would shorten that awake time, but then I feel even more tired in the morning). 0.5 Klonopin lets me sleep through the night, but I'm not rested. 0.25 Klonopin is okay, but I can't rely that I'll sleep through the night. Alcohol doesn't help, and neither does THC. It's quite frustrating. It was okay in my 20s because I would use this 2 hours AM window to get work done, but these days I'm just too damn tired. If I'm lucky I'll read a book, otherwise, I'll stare at CNN or Adult Swim.
>
> I've had a sleep lab test done. They didn't arrive at any diagnosis (like apnea or RLS), but they found that my wake time was 150 minutes compared to the normal of 20 minutes - and this was on a night when to my knowledge I didn't wake up for that 2 hour window, but only for about 30 minutes to go to the bathroom and then have the nurse hook all the wires back up to my head. I'm supposed to have a follow-up with a neurologist to get more info, but that will take a couple of months. Until then maybe I'll try to get some Ambien.
I;m trying Ambien tonight. We'll see what happens. It's not just waking up EARLY, it's waking up early because there'a feeling of nervous excitement and jitteryness roiling around in my stomach and chest and that's what wakes me up. It's quite annoying. Does that happen to you? Do you feel agitated when you wake up?Marsha
Posted by Declan on November 4, 2005, at 13:24:17
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » Declan, posted by 4wd on October 31, 2005, at 23:16:55
Hi Marsha
You said you couldn't lie there and felt like someone had hooked you up to an adrenaline IV. It's not so bad with me. I do come out of deep sleep too early, and sometimes have difficulty getting there. The only idea my docs come up with is a salivery melatonin test, before sleep, after first awakening, and on rising. But I took melatonin for years (hopefully that hasn't caused this) and there's a lot more to sleep than melatonin. Early morning dread eh?
Declan
Posted by craiggetty on November 4, 2005, at 13:43:43
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » craiggetty, posted by 4wd on November 3, 2005, at 23:14:54
Hi Marsha,
No, I don't experience that jitteryness that you described. I think I used to, and would then try to get stuff done that I had blown off during the day (work, pay bills, clean the apt. - no joke). But these days I just wake up and feel tired - but still can't get back to sleep until a couple of hours go by.
Good luck with the Ambien. Keep us posted.
Craig
> > This problem has been the bane of my existence! I usually go to be around 12am, then wake up at 3:30ish for a couple of hours. Then back to sleep until whenever I can afford to depending on my day (9:30 - 10:30). I don't feel rested when I awake, and will nap again the first chance I get.
> >
> > I've tried all the herbal stuff to no effect. Trazadone makes me feel hungover, Sonata didn't really work (if I took it when I woke at 3:30A it would shorten that awake time, but then I feel even more tired in the morning). 0.5 Klonopin lets me sleep through the night, but I'm not rested. 0.25 Klonopin is okay, but I can't rely that I'll sleep through the night. Alcohol doesn't help, and neither does THC. It's quite frustrating. It was okay in my 20s because I would use this 2 hours AM window to get work done, but these days I'm just too damn tired. If I'm lucky I'll read a book, otherwise, I'll stare at CNN or Adult Swim.
> >
> > I've had a sleep lab test done. They didn't arrive at any diagnosis (like apnea or RLS), but they found that my wake time was 150 minutes compared to the normal of 20 minutes - and this was on a night when to my knowledge I didn't wake up for that 2 hour window, but only for about 30 minutes to go to the bathroom and then have the nurse hook all the wires back up to my head. I'm supposed to have a follow-up with a neurologist to get more info, but that will take a couple of months. Until then maybe I'll try to get some Ambien.
>
>
> I;m trying Ambien tonight. We'll see what happens. It's not just waking up EARLY, it's waking up early because there'a feeling of nervous excitement and jitteryness roiling around in my stomach and chest and that's what wakes me up. It's quite annoying. Does that happen to you? Do you feel agitated when you wake up?
>
> Marsha
>
Posted by anodyne on November 6, 2005, at 17:44:57
In reply to Re: Waking up Early » anodyne, posted by ed_uk on October 31, 2005, at 14:58:42
Ed, took your advice and am giving Sonata a try for sleep. Not the ideal solution but it's better than nothing.
> Zaleplon (Sonata) can be taken when you wake up during the night. It's not a benzo, it's similar to Ambien but has a shorter duration of action.
> How do you respond to sedating tricyclic antidepressants?
>
> EdTricyclics make me groggy.
Thanks. -Dan
Posted by ed_uk on November 7, 2005, at 14:27:31
In reply to Re: Waking up Early, posted by anodyne on November 6, 2005, at 17:44:57
Are you starting with 10mg?
Ed
This is the end of the thread.
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