![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by paulbwell on November 4, 2005, at 0:49:18
I wana take a Barbiturate-Seconal, cos i NEED profound psychic relief-sleep,
Posted by Chairman_MAO on November 4, 2005, at 12:45:54
In reply to Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by paulbwell on November 4, 2005, at 0:49:18
You are more likely to get chloral hydrate. That might work just as well.
Phenobarbital is readily available from overseas without Rx, but Seconal is nearly impossible to get. Perhaps you can get a sleep study done to prove how bad your insomnia is and get seconal, but other than that I doubt it.
Posted by rjlockhart98 on November 4, 2005, at 20:17:25
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal? » paulbwell, posted by Chairman_MAO on November 4, 2005, at 12:45:54
Paul you like strong meds. ROLF
Sorry about that post i posted, i was out of it, "dude, drop the dex and give it to me" ROLF!
Apologize.
Anyways how is your way coming with dexedrine?
Seconal would be the last option for severe insomnia. I've taken pentobarbital (nembutal), it feels sort of a peaceful sense, it will put you to sleep but it does slowdown your respitory system, but its not the "wondermed". Barbiturates later become more complicated then benzo's in effects.
You would have to go through all the benzo's, for sleep, even AP's, to the barbiturates.
Seconal was popualar in the 1930's, but it really isnt that intresting, it makes you doped, more cognitive slowing, and sedation.
Thats my put
But keep trying on the dexedrine.
Matt
Posted by SLS on November 4, 2005, at 21:12:04
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal? » paulbwell, posted by Chairman_MAO on November 4, 2005, at 12:45:54
> You are more likely to get chloral hydrate.
In my experience, chloral hydrate sucks. It feels like nothing more than a bit of alcohol in a gelatin capsule. It burns your stomach and doesn't let you sleep. It really didn't help me sleep at all when I was taking Nardil. I also built up a tolerance to it very quickly - not that it did that much for me to begin with. Perhaps I should have made myself a "Mickey".
The usual caveat: YMMV - Perhaps others have had better experiences with this drug than I did.
Regarding barbiturates: please be careful. It is worth developing a healthy respect for what these drugs can do. They represent useful, powerful, and dangerous tools.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2005, at 21:30:52
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by SLS on November 4, 2005, at 21:12:04
Scott not sure you can get it in a capsule anymore. But I took the liquid for about 6 yrs. For over a year 5cc worked wonders at knocking me out and long sleep. But of course I was on xanax too. That was how the pdoc got me off 5 beers nightly. But I was working when I drank beer. once I gave it up I ended up on disability. Have to wonder if I'd continued the beer if I would still be happy and working. Along with .5 of xanax at night. I was truly happy. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 4, 2005, at 22:00:54
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2005, at 21:30:52
Hi Phillipa.
> For over a year 5cc worked wonders at knocking me out and long sleep. But of course I was on xanax too. That was how the pdoc got me off 5 beers nightly.
Hmm. That was smart of him.
> But I was working when I drank beer. once I gave it up I ended up on disability.
Why?
> Have to wonder if I'd continued the beer if I would still be happy and working. Along with .5 of xanax at night. I was truly happy.
Hmm. Something to think about.
Thanks for your feedback.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2005, at 22:12:05
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal? » Phillipa, posted by SLS on November 4, 2005, at 22:00:54
Scott it really is something to think about. As I always limited my consumption. Wonder if the beer was the drug that worked on my GABA and anxiety. Since then I've been depressed. Alchohol is a part of all social or most social functions. Where knowing I had a way to calm down and sleep after my 3-ll shift. Nothing ever bothered me. So now I have to find that pdoc in Charlotte and a regular doc as well. And we got roadrunner so now my E-mail address is different. If you or anyone else that reads this wants it just babblemail me and I'll give it to you. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 4, 2005, at 23:13:29
In reply to Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by paulbwell on November 4, 2005, at 0:49:18
I've been taking barbiturates (lately Seconal or Alurate, but formerly Seconal or Tuinal) on and off for sleep for perhaps a year to sixteen months now. I have very treatment-resistant episodes of severe insomnia occasionally that will keep me awake for up to twelve days on end; after four days, I start to suffer the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation (i.e. slight visual disturbances at first, followed by full-blown visual and auditory hallucinations, then psychosis). Nothing else, outside of drinking large amounts along with my already-high dose of Xanax, taking large doses of opioids, or taking quite large doses of meprobamate helps (carisoprodol, OTOH, paradoxically excites me at doses exceeding 2100mg).
I'm basically just chiming in to say I'd like to concur with essentially what everyone has said so far. Chairman MAO is absolutely correct that phenobarbital, as well as primidone (Mysoline; a prodrug of phenobarbital), and butalbital (part of Fioricet/Fiorinal) to a lesser degree, is quite easy to obtain from overseas. He was also correct that, typically, a doctor will at least want pretty hard evidence that nothing "softer" works for you (e.g. Ambien, or even Halcion) before going to sodium secobarbital. I was lucky and didn't have to submit to a sleep study -- my doctors just trusted me that nothing they were prescribing was working.
I also want to say that Matt was pretty dead on in his descriptions of the effects of the two barbiturates Nembutal and Seconal. Unfortunately, Nembutal (or pentobarbital) is available only in liquid form for I.V. (perhaps also I.M.?) injection and suppositories these days. I've had the good fortune of trying some of the capsules a few years ago, though they were obtained illicitly. I would take it over Seconal if it weren't for the lack of a readily-available oral preparation.
As for chloral hydrate or chloral betaine, they're worth a try, no? They worked for me for a while, and chloral betaine is less upsetting to the stomach. I'm not sure about chloral betaine, but chloral hydrate is still available in both liquid *and* gelcap forms (AquaChloral, Somnote).
I'm not sure if it's still possible to get something like glutethimide (formerly Doriden), ethchlorvynol (formerly Placidyl), or methyprylon (formerly Noludar) filled . . . perhaps at a compounding pharmacy? They're all still only CII drugs, unlike methaqualone (Quaalades), unfortunately.
Well, best of luck to you! If anyone knows how horrible living with insomnia can be, it's me. :-(
Best Wishes,
~Michael
Posted by med_empowered on November 4, 2005, at 23:35:11
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 4, 2005, at 23:13:29
hey! To Ame--how does Alurate make you feel? I've always been curious about it...its a schedule III,unlike most other barbs so you could get re-fills, and I think it is or was primarily an anti-anxiety drug...do you take it for sleep, or treatment-resistant anxiety?
I dont know why docs use Phenobarbital for sleep..I mean, it works, but it lasts sooooo long; I really think the patient would fare better using Tuinal or something, as long as suicide isnt in the picture. Seconal, from what I understand, is pretty intense and dumbs people down...if you look at prescribing habits, it seems that Nembutal and Amytal were the preferred barbs for anxiety; although Seconal **can** be used for anxiety, it seems it was used most often for sleep. There's also Tuinal but I doubt that's RX'd very much *at all*; when barbs were big, Tuinal was apparently the most problematic of them all (although seconal was used by more people since it was RX'd more). Chloral hydrate is absolutely horrid and vile. Sometimes some "mixing" (with your doctor's guidance) can be helpful. Example: when I had super-severe insomnia (which seems to somehow have lifted since), taking an extra .5mgs Klonopin at dinner along with 600-900mgs Neurontin, plus 5-10mgs Ambien (if needed) did the trick..it sounds like a lot, I know, but I actually tolerated it pretty well w/ minimal hang over. My doc worked my meds so instead of relying on a single med at pre-set dosages, I could adjust a couple meds to get maximum effect w/ minimal problems. The medication costs were kind rough up-front, even with insurance, but...since I could use small amounts of each med (or none at all), they lasted forever. I think now that we're in the age of Lunesta and Ambien, you can have more flexibility in treating insomnia with multiple agents.
Posted by SLS on November 5, 2005, at 6:59:16
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 4, 2005, at 23:13:29
Hi Michael.
I was hoping you might chime in on this discussion.
:-)
I hope all is well with you these days. When I don't see you post, I usually take that as a good sign for you, despite it being a loss here at PB.
Take care.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on November 5, 2005, at 8:36:36
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 4, 2005, at 23:13:29
I'd like to echo what Scott said.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 5, 2005, at 8:37:44
In reply to Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by paulbwell on November 4, 2005, at 0:49:18
Hi P
Ritalin often causes insomnia, perhaps you'd feel better if you reduced the dose?
Ed
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 5, 2005, at 10:01:52
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal? » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on November 5, 2005, at 8:37:44
Hi, it's great to see you guys, as always! :-)
I'm sorry I don't get around much to posting on PB these days... truth of the matter is that I've been really wrapped up in researching Texas law these days to help prepare my family for a trial. My stepfather died last February and left his estate to my mother, but his son took advantage of the fact that they share a name to claim the house was his, and the signature on the Deed was his. The conscienceless S.O.B. ended up winning (this was three days ago) because of a judge who truly did not know what he was doing. We're sure we'll win on appeal, so hopefully won't be forced to leave our home. :-(
I *am* doing wonderfully on my meds though -- I would elaborate, but I'm actually about to be running late for work (!!!), if that's any indication. :-D I'll get back with you all later!
~Michael
Posted by ed_uk on November 5, 2005, at 12:44:45
In reply to Scott Ed, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 5, 2005, at 10:01:52
Michael,
>We're sure we'll win on appeal.......
I'm confident that you will. Your research will be extremely helpful.
Ed
Posted by paulbwell on November 6, 2005, at 4:26:10
In reply to Re: Sick of beung alert -sleptness Seconal?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 4, 2005, at 23:13:29
> I've been taking barbiturates (lately Seconal or Alurate, but formerly Seconal or Tuinal) on and off for sleep for perhaps a year to sixteen months now. I have very treatment-resistant episodes of severe insomnia occasionally that will keep me awake for up to twelve days on end; after four days, I start to suffer the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation (i.e. slight visual disturbances at first, followed by full-blown visual and auditory hallucinations, then psychosis). Nothing else, outside of drinking large amounts along with my already-high dose of Xanax, taking large doses of opioids, or taking quite large doses of meprobamate helps (carisoprodol, OTOH, paradoxically excites me at doses exceeding 2100mg).
>
> I'm basically just chiming in to say I'd like to concur with essentially what everyone has said so far. Chairman MAO is absolutely correct that phenobarbital, as well as primidone (Mysoline; a prodrug of phenobarbital), and butalbital (part of Fioricet/Fiorinal) to a lesser degree, is quite easy to obtain from overseas. He was also correct that, typically, a doctor will at least want pretty hard evidence that nothing "softer" works for you (e.g. Ambien, or even Halcion) before going to sodium secobarbital. I was lucky and didn't have to submit to a sleep study -- my doctors just trusted me that nothing they were prescribing was working.
>
> I also want to say that Matt was pretty dead on in his descriptions of the effects of the two barbiturates Nembutal and Seconal. Unfortunately, Nembutal (or pentobarbital) is available only in liquid form for I.V. (perhaps also I.M.?) injection and suppositories these days. I've had the good fortune of trying some of the capsules a few years ago, though they were obtained illicitly. I would take it over Seconal if it weren't for the lack of a readily-available oral preparation.
>
> As for chloral hydrate or chloral betaine, they're worth a try, no? They worked for me for a while, and chloral betaine is less upsetting to the stomach. I'm not sure about chloral betaine, but chloral hydrate is still available in both liquid *and* gelcap forms (AquaChloral, Somnote).
>
> I'm not sure if it's still possible to get something like glutethimide (formerly Doriden), ethchlorvynol (formerly Placidyl), or methyprylon (formerly Noludar) filled . . . perhaps at a compounding pharmacy? They're all still only CII drugs, unlike methaqualone (Quaalades), unfortunately.
>
> Well, best of luck to you! If anyone knows how horrible living with insomnia can be, it's me. :-^Cheers dude,'m avare of your use of seconal, and Tuinal (Secobarbital+Amobarbital?,-which you said worked better? than seconal?. Nembutal-(Pentobarbital)100mg yellow caps WERE the best their was in that category, apparently?
A couple nights ago, i wish like flip i had some effective sleep meds. I had had, a few drinks, and was feeling ragged, so took 30mgs crushed, sublingually Diazepam, and, thank God, got some hours of ok sleep,-nothing like 12 hours or anything, which i could expect from a couple Seconal, Tuinal, or Methaquaalone tabs-but SOME relief.Good quality, out of it sleep, is VERY important, and essential for good mental health.
Cheers dude!!
>
> Best Wishes,
> ~Michael
Posted by paulbwell on November 6, 2005, at 5:03:51
In reply to Re: Numbutal or Amytal, posted by rjlockhart98 on November 4, 2005, at 20:17:25
> Paul you like strong meds. ROLF
>
> Sorry about that post i posted, i was out of it, "dude, drop the dex and give it to me" ROLF!
>
> Apologize.
>
> Anyways how is your way coming with dexedrine?
>
> Seconal would be the last option for severe insomnia. I've taken pentobarbital (nembutal), it feels sort of a peaceful sense, it will put you to sleep but it does slowdown your respitory system, but its not the "wondermed". Barbiturates later become more complicated then benzo's in effects.
>
> You would have to go through all the benzo's, for sleep, even AP's, to the barbiturates.
>
> Seconal was popualar in the 1930's, but it really isnt that intresting, it makes you doped, more cognitive slowing, and sedation.
>
> Thats my put
>
> But keep trying on the dexedrine.
>
> Matt
Hi Dude!
I'm not sure if i should see my Psydoc and get my 18 month Script of Ritalin changed to Dex 5mg IR-althou i wanna, to see the effects of a REAL Amphetamine-not expecting life changing effects OK, only less SEs!.You have taken nembutal, and Seconal? I'v read nembutal is the best there is?-Wow, i wonder how old you are?
I would have LOVED to have had a few Barbiturates 2 nights ago-when i needed to pass out for some hours, BUT as usual had to make do with alcohol+30mgs Diazepam.
Cheers
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 6, 2005, at 8:05:57
In reply to Seconal, posted by med_empowered on November 4, 2005, at 23:35:11
> hey! To Ame--how does Alurate make you feel? I've always been curious about it...its a schedule III,unlike most other barbs so you could get re-fills, and I think it is or was primarily an anti-anxiety drug...do you take it for sleep, or treatment-resistant anxiety?
Hi there! First of all, I'd better correct something I put in my former post. The prescription I have written every now and then for Alurate gets filled as *aprobarbital* elixir, 40mg/5mL -- *not* allobarbital. But, regardless, it *is* generic Alurate, and I typically take 35mL (280mg) when using it for insomnia. There *have* been a few times I've used it during the day, as it is indicated both as a hypnotic and a daytime sedative. I've generally found barbiturates to be vastly inferior to benzodiazepines when used for daytime anxiolysis, though -- too disinhibiting, with *far* too much of a likeness to alcohol in the subjective effects. I will say that mephobarbital (Mebaral; aka meth[yl]phenobarbital) is quite a bit more efficient for this purpose though than the shorter-acting barbs, in my experience. Phenobarbital itself is crap.
That said, there *is* a little-known product available in the United States known as "Triple Barbital", which can be a wonderful hypnotic. It contains 25mg aprobarbital, 25mg phenobarbital, and 50mg butabarbital. I can't recall its official FDA indication(s), but two of these will typically allow me to sleep very well for about eight hours, then feel a nice calming effect upon awakening, primarily as a result of the long-acting phenobarbital still being in my system and likely having an augmenting action on the other two barbs.
Now, to answer your first question, lol -- how does Alurate feel? I can of course only provide my subjective opinion, but, to someone without a barbiturate tolerance, about 40-100mg seems to provide a warm, semi-euphoric sedation akin to, perhaps, 10-20mg Valium taken with a nice glass of blackberry brandy. Higher (hypnotic) doses pretty much just drift you off to sleep.
> I dont know why docs use Phenobarbital for sleep..I mean, it works, but it lasts sooooo long; I really think the patient would fare better using Tuinal or something, as long as suicide isnt in the picture.
Ugh, I definitely agree. Phenobarbital, while it *will* put me to sleep in doses exceeding half a gram or so, does cause a great deal of next-day sedation and ataxia.
> Seconal, from what I understand, is pretty intense and dumbs people down...if you look at prescribing habits, it seems that Nembutal and Amytal were the preferred barbs for anxiety; although Seconal **can** be used for anxiety, it seems it was used most often for sleep. There's also Tuinal but I doubt that's RX'd very much *at all*; when barbs were big, Tuinal was apparently the most problematic of them all (although seconal was used by more people since it was RX'd more). Chloral hydrate is absolutely horrid and vile. Sometimes some "mixing" (with your doctor's guidance) can be helpful. Example: when I had super-severe insomnia (which seems to somehow have lifted since), taking an extra .5mgs Klonopin at dinner along with 600-900mgs Neurontin, plus 5-10mgs Ambien (if needed) did the trick..it sounds like a lot, I know, but I actually tolerated it pretty well w/ minimal hang over. My doc worked my meds so instead of relying on a single med at pre-set dosages, I could adjust a couple meds to get maximum effect w/ minimal problems.
Klonopin, Ambien, and Neurontin sounds like a very reasonable combination to me, if it works for you. The doses you're taking are by no means high.
> The medication costs were kind rough up-front, even with insurance, but...since I could use small amounts of each med (or none at all), they lasted forever. I think now that we're in the age of Lunesta and Ambien, you can have more flexibility in treating insomnia with multiple agents.
Absolutely -- and don't forget Xyrem! I have the distinct feeling that once it loses some of its stigma as the "Date Rape Drug", certain restrictions on its prescribing will be lifted. And the sustained-release form of the drug (a current work-in-progress) will one day prove invaluable to the treatment of insomnia, IMHO.
~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 6, 2005, at 8:19:46
In reply to Sleep Aids-Barbituraturates, benz?, posted by paulbwell on November 6, 2005, at 4:26:10
> ^Cheers dude,'m avare of your use of seconal, and Tuinal (Secobarbital+Amobarbital?,-which you said worked better? than seconal?.
Yes, I found Tuinal marginally more effective than either Seconal or Alurate, but having the prescription compounded got to be a pain in the *ss. It's no longer on the U.S. market in either proprietary or generic form.
> Nembutal-(Pentobarbital)100mg yellow caps WERE the best their was in that category, apparently?
All I can say to that is, pursuant to my experiences, HELL YES!! lol
> A couple nights ago, i wish like flip i had some effective sleep meds. I had had, a few drinks, and was feeling ragged, so took 30mgs crushed, sublingually Diazepam, and, thank God, got some hours of ok sleep,-nothing like 12 hours or anything, which i could expect from a couple Seconal, Tuinal, or Methaquaalone tabs-but SOME relief.
It seems a lot of people are taking to administering their benzos sublingually (at least on this board). That makes me feel a lot less alone on the matter, seeing as that's how I always administer my benzos (and amphetamines as well). :-)
> Good quality, out of it sleep, is VERY important, and essential for good mental health.
I couldn't agree with you more!! When medical professionals are truly going to realize this, I have no idea, but it's certainly the truth. As I mentioned in my above post to med_empowered, I believe that one day Xyrem will be the mainstay of treatment for chronic insomnia, not only because it invariably *works*, but because it maintains proper sleep structure and allows for a truly restful sleep. The two doses throughout the night required make things a bit difficult though, which is why I look forward to the sustained-action form of this drug making it to market.
Best wishes,
~Michael
Posted by paulbwell on November 7, 2005, at 0:15:41
In reply to Re: Sleep Aids-Barbituraturates, benz? » paulbwell, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 6, 2005, at 8:19:46
> > ^Cheers dude,'m avare of your use of seconal, and Tuinal (Secobarbital+Amobarbital?,-which you said worked better? than seconal?.
>
> Yes, I found Tuinal marginally more effective than either Seconal or Alurate, but having the prescription compounded got to be a pain in the *ss. It's no longer on the U.S. market in either proprietary or generic form.
>
> > Nembutal-(Pentobarbital)100mg yellow caps WERE the best their was in that category, apparently?
>
> All I can say to that is, pursuant to my experiences, HELL YES!! lol
>
> > A couple nights ago, i wish like flip i had some effective sleep meds. I had had, a few drinks, and was feeling ragged, so took 30mgs crushed, sublingually Diazepam, and, thank God, got some hours of ok sleep,-nothing like 12 hours or anything, which i could expect from a couple Seconal, Tuinal, or Methaquaalone tabs-but SOME relief.
>
> It seems a lot of people are taking to administering their benzos sublingually (at least on this board). That makes me feel a lot less alone on the matter, seeing as that's how I always administer my benzos (and amphetamines as well). :-)
>
> > Good quality, out of it sleep, is VERY important, and essential for good mental health.
>
> I couldn't agree with you more!! When medical professionals are truly going to realize this, I have no idea, but it's certainly the truth. As I mentioned in my above post to med_empowered, I believe that one day Xyrem will be the mainstay of treatment for chronic insomnia, not only because it invariably *works*, but because it maintains proper sleep structure and allows for a truly restful sleep. The two doses throughout the night required make things a bit difficult though, which is why I look forward to the sustained-action form of this drug making it to market.
>
> Best wishes,
> ~MichaelHi Ya michael, thanks for your response-man!!
" Nembutal-(Pentobarbital)100mg yellow caps WERE the best their was in that category, apparently?
>
> All I can say to that is, pursuant to my experiences, HELL YES!! lol
>So thoes Yellow jackets, 100mg Caps were better tahan your preferred Tuinal caps?-little use now, since Nem, was discontinued (human use) in Non 2004-USA.
I know you Took Amphetamines, Adderall-120mgs, Dextrostate? Do you think this compounded your sleep issues/
Cheers dude!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 7, 2005, at 7:17:23
In reply to Barbiturates-sleep aids?, posted by paulbwell on November 7, 2005, at 0:15:41
> Hi Ya michael, thanks for your response-man!!
Anytime. :-)
I should be posting here a lot more often now -- I realized during the lengthy evacuation for Hurricane Rita how much I missed being able to utilize this board.
> So thoes Yellow jackets, 100mg Caps were better tahan your preferred Tuinal caps?-little use now, since Nem, was discontinued (human use) in Non 2004-USA.I'd take them over Tuinal any day. In fact, I just may ask for the Nembutal suppositories that Able Labs purchased from Abbott not too long ago the next time I need some form of hypnotic. I haven't needed one in some time now, since I began taking a large bedtime dose of Xyrem.
> I know you Took Amphetamines, Adderall-120mgs, Dextrostate? Do you think this compounded your sleep issues/Surprisingly enough, I've found that I sleep much better *with* the amphetamines than without them. In fact, there was a brief period during which I was prescribed a bedtime dose of Adderall to help me sleep! My doctor and I both decided though, helpful as this was, that 1) the lower my total daily consumption of amphetamines, the better, and 2) amphetamines could be interfering too much with my sleep structure. Thus the switch to Xyrem.
All the best,
~Michael
Posted by ed_uk on November 7, 2005, at 14:21:25
In reply to Re: Barbiturates-sleep aids? » paulbwell, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 7, 2005, at 7:17:23
Hi Michael
In what way was Nembutal better than Seconal?
Seconal, Amytal, Tuinal and Soneryl are still marketed in the UK. Nembutal is not available here.
Kind regards
Ed x
Posted by paulbwell on November 8, 2005, at 16:10:11
In reply to Re: Barbiturates-sleep aids? » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on November 7, 2005, at 14:21:25
> Hi Michael
>
> In what way was Nembutal better than Seconal?
>
> Seconal, Amytal, Tuinal and Soneryl are still marketed in the UK. Nembutal is not available here.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Hi Michael
>
> In what way was Nembutal better than Seconal?
>
> Seconal, Amytal, Tuinal and Soneryl are still marketed in the UK. Nembutal is not available here.
>
> Kind regards
>pentobarbital, is the best of the bunch, just as there are different heiraches of stimulants, same with Barbs, with Nembutal being the Desoxyn of them.
"In fact, there was a brief period during which I was prescribed a bedtime dose of Adderall to help me sleep! "---I hear Ya, i know you hate Ritalin, but it CAN help me sleep sometimes-quieting the brain.
Cheers dude.
> Ed x
> Ed x
Posted by paulbwell on November 8, 2005, at 16:23:57
In reply to Re: Barbiturates-sleep aids? » paulbwell, posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 7, 2005, at 7:17:23
> > Hi Ya michael, thanks for your response-man!!
>
> Anytime. :-)
>
> I should be posting here a lot more often now -- I realized during the lengthy evacuation for Hurricane Rita how much I missed being able to utilize this board.
>
> > So thoes Yellow jackets, 100mg Caps were better tahan your preferred Tuinal caps?-little use now, since Nem, was discontinued (human use) in Non 2004-USA.
>
> I'd take them over Tuinal any day. In fact, I just may ask for the Nembutal suppositories that Able Labs purchased from Abbott not too long ago the next time I need some form of hypnotic. I haven't needed one in some time now, since I began taking a large bedtime dose of Xyrem.
>
> > I know you Took Amphetamines, Adderall-120mgs, Dextrostate? Do you think this compounded your sleep issues/
>
> Surprisingly enough, I've found that I sleep much better *with* the amphetamines than without them. In fact, there was a brief period during which I was prescribed a bedtime dose of Adderall to help me sleep! My doctor and I both decided though, helpful as this was, that 1) the lower my total daily consumption of amphetamines, the better, and 2) amphetamines could be interfering too much with my sleep structure. Thus the switch to Xyrem.
>Hi ya Mike!
I wish i had your Doc, i am glad you have simplified your med regeime, and wonder if you could list your current meds?-it sounds like you are taking less Adderall?
Cheers Dude.
> All the best,
> ~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 9, 2005, at 9:02:42
In reply to Re: Barbiturates-sleep aids?, posted by paulbwell on November 8, 2005, at 16:23:57
> Hi ya Mike!
Hi there! :-)
> I wish i had your Doc, i am glad you have simplified your med regeime, and wonder if you could list your current meds?-it sounds like you are taking less Adderall?Actually, I switched to a Dexedrine Spansule/Desoxyn combination a short while back. I posted my current meds just a few days ago on another thread -- here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20051106/msgs/576091.html
~Michael
Posted by ed_uk on November 9, 2005, at 16:35:33
In reply to Re: Barbiturates-sleep aids? » ed_uk, posted by paulbwell on November 8, 2005, at 16:10:11
Hi P!
I don't hate Ritalin. Like all meds, it has risks as well as benefits - which vary according to the individual
Regards
Ed
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