Posted by Ame Sans Vie on November 6, 2005, at 8:05:57
In reply to Seconal, posted by med_empowered on November 4, 2005, at 23:35:11
> hey! To Ame--how does Alurate make you feel? I've always been curious about it...its a schedule III,unlike most other barbs so you could get re-fills, and I think it is or was primarily an anti-anxiety drug...do you take it for sleep, or treatment-resistant anxiety?
Hi there! First of all, I'd better correct something I put in my former post. The prescription I have written every now and then for Alurate gets filled as *aprobarbital* elixir, 40mg/5mL -- *not* allobarbital. But, regardless, it *is* generic Alurate, and I typically take 35mL (280mg) when using it for insomnia. There *have* been a few times I've used it during the day, as it is indicated both as a hypnotic and a daytime sedative. I've generally found barbiturates to be vastly inferior to benzodiazepines when used for daytime anxiolysis, though -- too disinhibiting, with *far* too much of a likeness to alcohol in the subjective effects. I will say that mephobarbital (Mebaral; aka meth[yl]phenobarbital) is quite a bit more efficient for this purpose though than the shorter-acting barbs, in my experience. Phenobarbital itself is crap.
That said, there *is* a little-known product available in the United States known as "Triple Barbital", which can be a wonderful hypnotic. It contains 25mg aprobarbital, 25mg phenobarbital, and 50mg butabarbital. I can't recall its official FDA indication(s), but two of these will typically allow me to sleep very well for about eight hours, then feel a nice calming effect upon awakening, primarily as a result of the long-acting phenobarbital still being in my system and likely having an augmenting action on the other two barbs.
Now, to answer your first question, lol -- how does Alurate feel? I can of course only provide my subjective opinion, but, to someone without a barbiturate tolerance, about 40-100mg seems to provide a warm, semi-euphoric sedation akin to, perhaps, 10-20mg Valium taken with a nice glass of blackberry brandy. Higher (hypnotic) doses pretty much just drift you off to sleep.
> I dont know why docs use Phenobarbital for sleep..I mean, it works, but it lasts sooooo long; I really think the patient would fare better using Tuinal or something, as long as suicide isnt in the picture.
Ugh, I definitely agree. Phenobarbital, while it *will* put me to sleep in doses exceeding half a gram or so, does cause a great deal of next-day sedation and ataxia.
> Seconal, from what I understand, is pretty intense and dumbs people down...if you look at prescribing habits, it seems that Nembutal and Amytal were the preferred barbs for anxiety; although Seconal **can** be used for anxiety, it seems it was used most often for sleep. There's also Tuinal but I doubt that's RX'd very much *at all*; when barbs were big, Tuinal was apparently the most problematic of them all (although seconal was used by more people since it was RX'd more). Chloral hydrate is absolutely horrid and vile. Sometimes some "mixing" (with your doctor's guidance) can be helpful. Example: when I had super-severe insomnia (which seems to somehow have lifted since), taking an extra .5mgs Klonopin at dinner along with 600-900mgs Neurontin, plus 5-10mgs Ambien (if needed) did the trick..it sounds like a lot, I know, but I actually tolerated it pretty well w/ minimal hang over. My doc worked my meds so instead of relying on a single med at pre-set dosages, I could adjust a couple meds to get maximum effect w/ minimal problems.
Klonopin, Ambien, and Neurontin sounds like a very reasonable combination to me, if it works for you. The doses you're taking are by no means high.
> The medication costs were kind rough up-front, even with insurance, but...since I could use small amounts of each med (or none at all), they lasted forever. I think now that we're in the age of Lunesta and Ambien, you can have more flexibility in treating insomnia with multiple agents.
Absolutely -- and don't forget Xyrem! I have the distinct feeling that once it loses some of its stigma as the "Date Rape Drug", certain restrictions on its prescribing will be lifted. And the sustained-release form of the drug (a current work-in-progress) will one day prove invaluable to the treatment of insomnia, IMHO.
~Michael
poster:Ame Sans Vie
thread:575246
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20051106/msgs/575908.html