![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 0:17:51
In reply to sleep is number 1., posted by linkadge on September 18, 2005, at 16:26:14
> I don't care what doctors say. Do not put up with insomnia as a side effect of antidepressants. Attack the insomnia as agressivly as you would attack the depression itself. THe depression will not get better long term if the insomnia doesn't.
>
> In hindsight the insomnia was the biggest factor that kept me from improving.
>
> I would say trust your gut. Don't let a med interfere with sleep, eating, concentration etc.
>
> The body is a system and a whole. And it needs to be treated as such.
>
>
> Linkadge
Yes definitely, but without these meds I don't sleep at all and am extremely anxious. Finding meds that can allow sleep and thinking clearly and cover anxiety and depression is not easy (as you know). I guess I just have to keep trying to find some combination of medications (along with other kinds of help) that will take care of all of my issues without making me groggy and mentally slower. In the meantime, at least I'm sleeping.k
Posted by Sarah T. on September 19, 2005, at 0:24:19
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » yxibow, posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 0:05:26
Hi Kara,
I'm sorry if you've already mentioned this, but I've forgotten why you couldn't take Trazodone. I couldn't take it either. I have a paradoxical reaction to it.
S.
Posted by Sarah T. on September 19, 2005, at 0:31:58
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » Sarah T., posted by KaraS on September 18, 2005, at 23:58:09
Hi Kara,
You said that you are worried you might turn off the alarm without remembering it, etc. I worry about that, too, so you know what I do? You're probably going to think this is excessive. . .I have five alarm clocks. I have a few electric ones and a few battery-operated ones as back ups. The electric ones are louder and even more annoying than the others. I place them all around the room so I have to get out of bed to turn them off. My father used to suggest putting a metal alarm clock on a plate so it would make a lot of noise. I hate my alarm clocks. I'd like to throw them all out the window.
S.
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE` on September 19, 2005, at 2:06:44
In reply to Re: sleep is number 1. » linkadge, posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 0:17:51
oh yeah, no doubt about it, if you dont get your sleep, it may send your entire day into a tailspin. it does with me every time. sleep is the first step of the day. if you dont get it, yikes.
my problem with the meds is that they make me toooo groggy. i am too sleepy. but again, my pdoc said is it worth it? can you put up with sleeping good but being groggy all day and having your anxiety reduced at the same time? YES SIR. that was the easiest decision of my life. i have GOT to have my sleep!
Posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 6:17:10
In reply to Re: Kara, ques about Trazodone » KaraS, posted by Sarah T. on September 19, 2005, at 0:24:19
> Hi Kara,
>
> I'm sorry if you've already mentioned this, but I've forgotten why you couldn't take Trazodone. I couldn't take it either. I have a paradoxical reaction to it.
>
> S.Nausea. I was on Trazadone for over two months and the nausea never went away. I was so bummed because it worked for sleep without increasing my appetite.
Posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 6:30:15
In reply to Re: Kara, regarding alarm clocks - ugh! » KaraS, posted by Sarah T. on September 19, 2005, at 0:31:58
> Hi Kara,
>
> You said that you are worried you might turn off the alarm without remembering it, etc. I worry about that, too, so you know what I do? You're probably going to think this is excessive. . .I have five alarm clocks. I have a few electric ones and a few battery-operated ones as back ups. The electric ones are louder and even more annoying than the others. I place them all around the room so I have to get out of bed to turn them off. My father used to suggest putting a metal alarm clock on a plate so it would make a lot of noise. I hate my alarm clocks. I'd like to throw them all out the window.
>
> S.
NO, I definitely don't think that 5 alarm clocks is crazy. I have used three until recently when one of them broke. I had them strategically placed as well. For one of them I have to get up out of bed. I tried putting one in the living room but I didn't hear it. Maybe I should get a couple more of them and place them on the other side of the room. It's worth a shot anyway.I had a friend come to visit last year. She said that my alarm clocks would go off and I would be sleeping through it. They were plenty loud too. I guess that explains why my alarm clocks were running so late. :-) Now I have one of them set for the radio to come on very loudly. I don't think I have ever slept through that though. I hate them too.
Posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 6:39:39
In reply to Re: Let me clarify: Sleep is definitely No. 1, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE` on September 19, 2005, at 2:06:44
Posted by linkadge on September 19, 2005, at 10:44:52
In reply to Re: sleep is number 1. » linkadge, posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 0:17:51
Of course some sleep is better than no sleep. For me, insomnia wasn't too big an issue untill I started AD's.
I noticed the longer I took them, that the crappier the quality of my sleep became, and the longer I actually needed to stay in bed.
On the 5th year of celexa, I was sleeping upwards of 14 hours a day, and it wasn't sleep at all.
The biggest problem was the fact that since I didn't get deep sleep, I wasn't awake during the day which made me significantly dumber, and consequently more depressed and anxious.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 19, 2005, at 10:50:58
In reply to Re: Let me clarify: Sleep is definitely No. 1, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE` on September 19, 2005, at 2:06:44
I am not saying you should change things.
I just know for me, that being groggy during the day was unacceptable. The more groggy I was the dumber I became in class.
The dumber I was in class the more anxious I was, and the less I slept.
It was a bad cycle, and the meds I was on were simply not helping to break it.
Linkadge
Posted by Ilene on September 19, 2005, at 12:57:52
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » Ilene, posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 0:07:21
I probably got the timer at a hardware store, and it was easy to set up. It has a clock dial, and you put little pins in at the times you want it to go on and off. You plug the light box into the timer, and the timer into the outlet.
I.
Posted by Sarah T. on September 20, 2005, at 0:27:21
In reply to Re: sleep is number 1., posted by linkadge on September 19, 2005, at 10:44:52
Hi Linkadge,
First, I have to comment on your phrase, "I wasn't awake during the day which made me significantly dumber." In order for you to be "dumber," you'd have to be dumb. You are not dumb. You are so smart!
Secondly, I know what mean though. I've had the same problem with poor sleep on AD's. I actually function better on just a few (3-5) hours sleep with NO meds than on 7 or 8 hours with meds. When I started taking ssri's, I noticed I had to spend MUCH more time in bed. On Celexa, I had to spend AT LEAST two extra hours in bed beyond my usual amount because, on Celexa, I would wake up in the middle of the night every night for about two hours. Nothing, absolutely nothing, would put me back to sleep except the passage of time (those two hours). During those couple of hours, I would also get very hungry, but it wasn't a healthy kind of real hunger that I usually have when I'm hungry. It was sort of a gnawing, edgy feeling in my stomach. I would eat, but the food wouldn't make that edginess or anxiety go away. Ugh! I don't know how I ever took that medicine.
Posted by KaraS on September 20, 2005, at 6:57:25
In reply to Re: sleep is number 1., posted by linkadge on September 19, 2005, at 10:44:52
> Of course some sleep is better than no sleep. For me, insomnia wasn't too big an issue untill I started AD's.
>
> I noticed the longer I took them, that the crappier the quality of my sleep became, and the longer I actually needed to stay in bed.
>
> On the 5th year of celexa, I was sleeping upwards of 14 hours a day, and it wasn't sleep at all.
>
> The biggest problem was the fact that since I didn't get deep sleep, I wasn't awake during the day which made me significantly dumber, and consequently more depressed and anxious.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
That's a good point. Sometimes meds that allow us to sleep don't give us quality sleep and so we still feel tired and not very sharp during the day. Other times the meds themselves prevent sleep. It's so hard to get on an antidepressant that allows one to sleep well and doesn't interfere with daytime abilities.k
Posted by KaraS on September 20, 2005, at 6:59:02
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » KaraS, posted by Ilene on September 19, 2005, at 12:57:52
> I probably got the timer at a hardware store, and it was easy to set up. It has a clock dial, and you put little pins in at the times you want it to go on and off. You plug the light box into the timer, and the timer into the outlet.
>
> I.
>
Thanks so much. I'll definitely check it out.k
Posted by linkadge on September 20, 2005, at 13:07:30
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » Ilene, posted by KaraS on September 20, 2005, at 6:59:02
Of course you're not looking for somebody to tell you to get off your meds.
As far as other recomendations, I would try the trazedone with some ginger root.
I have recommended ginger root to number of people who get nausia from serotonergic medications.
It is very good at preventing nausia, and it is a mild sedative in itself. If the only problem with the trazedone was nausia, then it might be worth a shot.
Ginger root blocked the nausia I got from celexa.
(I was vomiting)Take care
Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on September 20, 2005, at 21:17:58
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle, posted by linkadge on September 20, 2005, at 13:07:30
> Of course you're not looking for somebody to tell you to get off your meds.
>
> As far as other recomendations, I would try the trazedone with some ginger root.
>
> I have recommended ginger root to number of people who get nausia from serotonergic medications.
>
> It is very good at preventing nausia, and it is a mild sedative in itself. If the only problem with the trazedone was nausia, then it might be worth a shot.
>
> Ginger root blocked the nausia I got from celexa.
> (I was vomiting)
>
> Take care
>
> Linkadge
>I've tried ginger in capsules and it hasn't helped with the nausea I sometimes get from CFS. Are you saying that it hs to be from the root?
Posted by tizza on September 21, 2005, at 3:01:38
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » linkadge, posted by KaraS on September 20, 2005, at 21:17:58
I totally understand insommina, it drives you nuts. I'm on efexor xr and yes it has reduced my anxiety but I find it really hard to sleep. I'm still taking valium for anxiety and was taking mogadon for sleep but my pdoc has decided to switch my sleep med to Imovane (sister to Lunesta) not avaible in the US, either is mogadon (benzo) which is an excellent sleep aid but does make you groggy in the morning for the first few times you take it and does't leave that vile metallic taste in your mouth like Imovane and Lunesta. I have tried a few anti psych's for sleep and couldn't get out of bed at all, Zyprexa and Seroquel turn me into a total zombie. It's just so hard to find a good sleep aid and a good nights sleep is the key for a healthy new start. Hope I was of some help
Posted by gromit on September 21, 2005, at 11:20:38
In reply to Re: Kara, regarding alarm clocks - ugh! » Sarah T., posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 6:30:15
Hi Kara,
> NO, I definitely don't think that 5 alarm clocks is crazy. I have used three until recently when one of them broke. I had them strategically placed as well. For one of them I have to get up out of bed. I tried putting one in the living room but I didn't hear it. Maybe I should get a couple more of them and place them on the other side of the room. It's worth a shot anyway.
I read somewhere, maybe in a book by Dr Amen that he had several clients who had commercial burglar alarms installed because nothing else would work! When I was a kid my dad would have to shake me awake in the morning.
> I had a friend come to visit last year. She said that my alarm clocks would go off and I would be sleeping through it. They were plenty loud too. I guess that explains why my alarm clocks were running so late. :-) Now I have one of them set for the radio to come on very loudly. I don't think I have ever slept through that though. I hate them too.It can be next to my bed full blast and it might take an hour to wake me up. I have to put it across the room and play rap music or something else I can't stand. Lately I just wake up enough to pop an adderall and I get up easily when that starts to kick in.
Rick
Posted by linkadge on September 21, 2005, at 13:18:26
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » linkadge, posted by KaraS on September 20, 2005, at 21:17:58
No no, the stuff you took was probably a ginger root extract. If it didn't work for you then thats ok.
Have you tried seroquel ? At low doses it can be very good for sleep, and posess very few antipsychotic like side effects.
Linkadge
Posted by grammy on September 22, 2005, at 2:37:16
In reply to Re: Kara, ques about Trazodone » Sarah T., posted by KaraS on September 19, 2005, at 6:17:10
Me, too - I had to quit taking it because of the nausea. It really helped with the sleeping and I hated to get off of it, also. Carole
Posted by KaraS on September 25, 2005, at 2:03:47
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle, posted by tizza on September 21, 2005, at 3:01:38
> I totally understand insommina, it drives you nuts. I'm on efexor xr and yes it has reduced my anxiety but I find it really hard to sleep. I'm still taking valium for anxiety and was taking mogadon for sleep but my pdoc has decided to switch my sleep med to Imovane (sister to Lunesta) not avaible in the US, either is mogadon (benzo) which is an excellent sleep aid but does make you groggy in the morning for the first few times you take it and does't leave that vile metallic taste in your mouth like Imovane and Lunesta. I have tried a few anti psych's for sleep and couldn't get out of bed at all, Zyprexa and Seroquel turn me into a total zombie. It's just so hard to find a good sleep aid and a good nights sleep is the key for a healthy new start. Hope I was of some help.
Thanks. I'll probably be trying a benzo or Ambien or Lunesta eventually.
Posted by KaraS on September 25, 2005, at 2:19:20
In reply to Re: Kara, regarding alarm clocks - ugh!, posted by gromit on September 21, 2005, at 11:20:38
Hi Rick,
> I read somewhere, maybe in a book by Dr Amen that he had several clients who had commercial burglar alarms installed because nothing else would work! When I was a kid my dad would have to shake me awake in the morning.OMG, what a riot! I can just imagine having that burglar alarm installed in my apartment. I imagine my neighbors wouldn't be very happy about it. Actually, even if one lived in a house, it had better be a long distance from any other house if a burglar type alarm is installed.
If your dad had to shake you to wake you up, then you must really understand what I'm dealing with.
> It can be next to my bed full blast and it might take an hour to wake me up. I have to put it across the room and play rap music or something else I can't stand. Lately I just wake up enough to pop an adderall and I get up easily when that starts to kick in.Hmmmm. Those are two good ideas. I never considered loud music I didn't like. Also, if I can get the Dexedrine to be stimulating then popping one of those would be a great solution.
Thanks.K
Posted by KaraS on September 25, 2005, at 2:21:08
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle, posted by linkadge on September 21, 2005, at 13:18:26
> No no, the stuff you took was probably a ginger root extract. If it didn't work for you then thats ok.
>
> Have you tried seroquel ? At low doses it can be very good for sleep, and posess very few antipsychotic like side effects.
>
> Linkadge
Seroquel is on my list to try but I'd rather try non APs first. Would seroquel take care of daytime anxiety as well?k
Posted by KaraS on September 25, 2005, at 2:23:11
In reply to Re: Kara, ques about Trazodone, posted by grammy on September 22, 2005, at 2:37:16
> Me, too - I had to quit taking it because of the nausea. It really helped with the sleeping and I hated to get off of it, also. Carole
I knew when I heard that it was sedating and helped with sleep without increasing appetite and without any of the other tricyclic side effects, that it had to be too good to be true!
Posted by tizza on September 29, 2005, at 18:36:25
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » tizza, posted by KaraS on September 25, 2005, at 2:03:47
hey kara, my pdoc just gave me some Ativan (Lorazapam) which is a benzo that I have never tried before. It's fantastic for sleep. I'm now on effexor xr, valium for anxiety and Ativan for sleep. I haven't slept like this for years and I wake up feeling quite refreshed ONCE I get out of bed. I feel fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ativan can also be used for anxiety too, it's not a sleeping pill but induces a beautiful nights sleep. GOOD LUCK
Posted by KaraS on October 2, 2005, at 17:49:23
In reply to Re: Meds are screwing up my sleep cycle » KaraS, posted by tizza on September 29, 2005, at 18:36:25
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.