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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 14:21:47
I think we have had this discussion before. About where generic versions of a med are as good as the brand.
The only reason I am bringing it up again is because when I saw the psychopharmacologist he asked me whether I had taken generic Prozac or the brand version when it pooped out on me. I asked him if it made a difference and he said that if I had been taking the brand name and then switched to the generic form it could be one of the reasons it stopped working.
Has anyone come across any articles about this? What are your thoughts?
Cheers,
Maxi
Posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:22:53
In reply to Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 14:21:47
This might not be helpful, I'm just guessing here. But I would say that generic vs brand name drugs are probably similar to other generic vs brand name items. If you go to walmart and get the generic type of some product (soap, food, or whatever), sometimes it's just like the brand name, but sometimes it's not.
I read about some woman who took 5 different kinds of Ritalin-- brand name and 4 different generics. Only one particular type of generic worked for her. The rest didn't.
Posted by SLS on June 7, 2005, at 16:25:32
In reply to Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 14:21:47
> I think we have had this discussion before. About where generic versions of a med are as good as the brand.
>
> The only reason I am bringing it up again is because when I saw the psychopharmacologist he asked me whether I had taken generic Prozac or the brand version when it pooped out on me. I asked him if it made a difference and he said that if I had been taking the brand name and then switched to the generic form it could be one of the reasons it stopped working.
>
> Has anyone come across any articles about this? What are your thoughts?
Your doctor is absolutely right.Although this might not have been the case for you, several of my doctors have had people relapse once they switched to the generic and later recover once the name brand was restarted.
Brand names vs generics vs other generics are not always bioequivalent. Those "inert" ingredients can make all of the difference in the world in drug preparations. Apparently, even the name brand Nardil does not show equivelancy between the old preparation and the new one.
All of that being said, I think if you titrate using a generic and continue with that same brand generic, I don't see how it could make much difference. Unfortunately, pharmacies are at the mercy of their wholesalers as to which generic brand will show up on the shelves on a weekly basis. If you can make sure to use the same brand generic, I think you should be OK.
Who knows...
The FDA allows for more variation in the measurements in generics than they had in the original name brand, so...
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 16:29:50
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by yesac on June 7, 2005, at 15:22:53
Actually it's really interesting!
Maxime
> This might not be helpful, I'm just guessing here. But I would say that generic vs brand name drugs are probably similar to other generic vs brand name items. If you go to walmart and get the generic type of some product (soap, food, or whatever), sometimes it's just like the brand name, but sometimes it's not.
>
> I read about some woman who took 5 different kinds of Ritalin-- brand name and 4 different generics. Only one particular type of generic worked for her. The rest didn't.
Posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 16:30:06
In reply to Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 14:21:47
> I think we have had this discussion before. About where generic versions of a med are as good as the brand.
>
> The only reason I am bringing it up again is because when I saw the psychopharmacologist he asked me whether I had taken generic Prozac or the brand version when it pooped out on me. I asked him if it made a difference and he said that if I had been taking the brand name and then switched to the generic form it could be one of the reasons it stopped working.
>
> Has anyone come across any articles about this? What are your thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Maxi
My suggestion: Ask to see a bottle of the generic.It may say manufactured for (the generic brand, like Watson, Sando, Barr, Teva, Par, etc...) by: another manufacturer.
Then Google the manufacturer. Then see who the parent company of the manufacturer is. You might be surprised to learn that your generic is the "real" thing.
Posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 16:37:38
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by SLS on June 7, 2005, at 16:25:32
Hi Scott.
Well in my case I was always on the generic because that's what my insurance would cover. I got the sense from him that he thought that switching from one to the other (non-generic to generic) could have made a difference, but also that that the non-generic was superior. I don't know if I agree with last part.However your comments are spot on (as usual).
Thanks Scott!
Maxime
>
> Your doctor is absolutely right.
>
> Although this might not have been the case for you, several of my doctors have had people relapse once they switched to the generic and later recover once the name brand was restarted.
>
> Brand names vs generics vs other generics are not always bioequivalent. Those "inert" ingredients can make all of the difference in the world in drug preparations. Apparently, even the name brand Nardil does not show equivelancy between the old preparation and the new one.
>
> All of that being said, I think if you titrate using a generic and continue with that same brand generic, I don't see how it could make much difference. Unfortunately, pharmacies are at the mercy of their wholesalers as to which generic brand will show up on the shelves on a weekly basis. If you can make sure to use the same brand generic, I think you should be OK.
>
> Who knows...
>
> The FDA allows for more variation in the measurements in generics than they had in the original name brand, so...
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 17:28:53
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Maxime, posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 16:30:06
LOL! True. But I think they have to change something when they make the generic as well. That's my understanding which could be completely wrong.
Maxime
> > I think we have had this discussion before. About where generic versions of a med are as good as the brand.
> >
> > The only reason I am bringing it up again is because when I saw the psychopharmacologist he asked me whether I had taken generic Prozac or the brand version when it pooped out on me. I asked him if it made a difference and he said that if I had been taking the brand name and then switched to the generic form it could be one of the reasons it stopped working.
> >
> > Has anyone come across any articles about this? What are your thoughts?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Maxi
>
>
> My suggestion: Ask to see a bottle of the generic.
>
> It may say manufactured for (the generic brand, like Watson, Sando, Barr, Teva, Par, etc...) by: another manufacturer.
>
> Then Google the manufacturer. Then see who the parent company of the manufacturer is. You might be surprised to learn that your generic is the "real" thing.
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 7, 2005, at 18:05:49
In reply to Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 14:21:47
> I think we have had this discussion before. About where generic versions of a med are as good as the brand.
>
> The only reason I am bringing it up again is because when I saw the psychopharmacologist he asked me whether I had taken generic Prozac or the brand version when it pooped out on me. I asked him if it made a difference and he said that if I had been taking the brand name and then switched to the generic form it could be one of the reasons it stopped working.
>
> Has anyone come across any articles about this? What are your thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> MaxiI can tell you that they are supposed to be "bioequivalent". They are supposed to deliver the same amount of active ingredient in the same amount of time.
Here is what the FDA has to say about generics:
http://www.fda.gov/cder/news/nightgenlett.htm
http://www.fda.gov/cder/about/whatwedo/testtube-17.pdfHowever.....
How it is supposed to be, and how it really is....
How much faith do we put in studies of bioequivalency? I recall a fairly recent court case where a company that did these bioequivalency studies was accused of MAKING UP, TOTALLY FABRICATING potentially hundreds of studies upon which FDA rulings (or was it Health Canada rulings?) of bioequivlency were based.
The deal with proving bioequivalency is that the generic applicant doesn't have to prove that the drug works. The patented drug did that twenty years ago. The generic just has to show that in side by side comparison with the brand name drug, subjects had similar blood levels of active drug, lab samples had similar concentrations, blah blah. Well, apparently a private lab that did hundreds and hundreds of these studies just made up the numbers.
I know some doctors who have prescription pads that are pre-printed with the phrase "supply only as written" (or something like that) which means that a generic cannot be substituted for a brand name drug.
Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.
I am of the belief that my temazepam stopped working when the pharmacy switched generics from one supplier to another. Nothing I can do about that. Nor can I be sure that it really made a difference. The logical fallacy, "Post hoc ergo propter hoc; After this, therefore because of this" might apply. I.e. coincidence.
Lar
Posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 18:40:19
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » fires, posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 17:28:53
> LOL! True. But I think they have to change something when they make the generic as well. That's my understanding which could be completely wrong.
>
> Maxime
>"In some cases, the generic drugs are made by the same brand name company. They are just packaged differently."
They also state that they have to look different.
Posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 18:46:22
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » fires, posted by Maxime on June 7, 2005, at 17:28:53
> LOL! True. But I think they have to change something when they make the generic as well. That's my understanding which could be completely wrong.
>
> MaximeI also found this quote:
"In many cases, the same companies that make brand-name drugs. Because of the popularity of generic drugs, many pharmaceutical companies now sell two versions of the same drug -- one using the more expensive brand-name and another using the less expensive generic name."
I wonder what they mean by "many"?
Posted by TerraJo on June 7, 2005, at 21:52:51
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Maxime, posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 18:46:22
do you notice if this is true with klonopin and the generic form?
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2005, at 21:54:51
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Maxime, posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 18:46:22
Well I was Rx'd the drug Luvox today by my pdoc at my request. It was that or prozac. She's always willing to give me what I think will work. I have some of the "real Luvox" that is a full Rx before it was pulled and only generic available. It's l00mg tabs. The expiration is Feb 03. I've heard that you don't have to go by the expiration date. Anyone think it would be okay to take the "real deal"? It was Rx'd at 25mg. This would give me a few months worth. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2005, at 21:56:35
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by TerraJo on June 7, 2005, at 21:52:51
fires, I know Greenstone is the generic version of the real xanax. And it looks and tasted like the original one. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2005, at 21:58:25
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Maxime, posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 18:46:22
I'm also paying out of pocket for the real valium as there is no generic version for the Roche that makes the original. At least I think that's who makes it. The pharmacist said there wasn't a real deal generic for valium. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by fires on June 7, 2005, at 22:38:39
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2005, at 21:56:35
> fires, I know Greenstone is the generic version of the real xanax. And it looks and tasted like the original one. Fondly, Phillipa
I think you are correct: per Google searches >> Greenstone Ltd, is a subsidiary of Pfizer, makers of Xanax.
Posted by Jakeman on June 8, 2005, at 16:52:58
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2005, at 21:54:51
> Well I was Rx'd the drug Luvox today by my pdoc at my request. It was that or prozac. She's always willing to give me what I think will work. I have some of the "real Luvox" that is a full Rx before it was pulled and only generic available. It's l00mg tabs. The expiration is Feb 03. I've heard that you don't have to go by the expiration date. Anyone think it would be okay to take the "real deal"? It was Rx'd at 25mg. This would give me a few months worth. Fondly, Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
How does Luvox affect your insomnia? I've heard some people say that's it's sedating.
thnanks, Jake
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2005, at 17:31:00
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Phillipa, posted by Jakeman on June 8, 2005, at 16:52:58
Jakeman, I never felt sedated on Luvox. In fact I was also taking 4-5mg of ativan and chloral hydrate with it. I'm starting to think that none of the meds maked me tired. They just always wired me and made me feel like a space cadet. Not luvox though. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on June 8, 2005, at 18:35:03
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Jakeman, posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2005, at 17:31:00
Phillipa,
All the SSRI's that I've tried made me feel wired. I imagine Luvox would be the same. But for some people they are sedating. I guess no one knows why that is.best regards~ Jake
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 16:47:00
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Jakeman on June 8, 2005, at 18:35:03
I am really glad I ask you bright people the question! I have learned a lot from this thread. Thank you so much for sharing and the tips you gave. You rock!
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2005, at 17:52:09
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Maxime, posted by Larry Hoover on June 7, 2005, at 18:05:49
Maxie, Do you watch American Idol? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 20:21:00
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry? » Larry Hoover, posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2005, at 17:52:09
> Maxie, Do you watch American Idol? Fondly, Phillipa
Nope.
Posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 22:00:54
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 20:21:00
> > Maxie, Do you watch American Idol? Fondly, Phillipa
>
> Nope.Why did you ask me that by the way?
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2005, at 23:20:54
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 16:47:00
Maxie, They say "YOU ROCK" when they like a performance! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alohashirt on June 9, 2005, at 23:58:38
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Ed? SLS? Larry?, posted by Maxime on June 9, 2005, at 20:21:00
I have just begun taking dexedrine spansules (Brand) because
my local drusg store changed from one genric to a second that was inferior. When I asked my pdoc I was surprised that he said "absouletely they have different efficacies for many people"
Posted by Maxime on June 12, 2005, at 5:30:59
In reply to Re: Generic vs Non Generic - Maxime, posted by alohashirt on June 9, 2005, at 23:58:38
> I have just begun taking dexedrine spansules (Brand) because
> my local drusg store changed from one genric to a second that was inferior. When I asked my pdoc I was surprised that he said "absouletely they have different efficacies for many people"Wow! What difference did you notice?
So now it looks like there are sorts of things to factor:
generic vs brand name
generic vs generic
Is the the generic really made by the original people with the patten under different name?Oy!
Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
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