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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 19:08:30
I've been off of all medications about a month + 1/2 now.
There have been some tremendous improvements but some things that are still scaring the heck out of me.
For starters, the nagging anxiety is still there. Day and night. Some days it is more tollerable than others.On the bad side is the bleak reality that I may just have a permanent movement disorder. I have difficulty walking in a straight line, my body feels like somebody is shaking it. My head gets twisted to the left and gets stuck there. The list goes on. I am trying *not* to be sensationalist when I say this all, but it is there.
Since discontinuing the SSRI the suicidiality has cut by a good 75+%!! Basically I was going around 24 hours a day and perhaps every 5 minautes saying I want to kill myself, I want to kill myself how is the fastest way I can kill myself?
In my oppinion, this was a manifestation of **extreme** akathesia. I guess this is something that doctors need to be aware of. Another thing that people are not aware of, is that this akathesia can get much worse over time. So yes, initially this drug helped my suicidiality, but over times it created a whole new reason that I wanted to die.
I went onto a page for AP induced movement disorders. Going down the list, I'm like.. got that one, got that one, check check.....
It's like when I get up to start walking, the way that I want to initiate walking is no longer the way my body wants to initiate it.
I have done all of this without my doctor's supervision. This is the way I see it.
I honestly think that I knew the best thing for me at the time. You can imagine if I had gone into the doctors office saying that I had wanted to kill myself every 10 minautes, my clomipramine would have been doubled to 200mg!!! then when things got totally out of hand I would have been given ECT or something. Sometimes you just have to listen to your intuition.How do you deal with anxiety without taking an SSRI or a AP or a tranqualizer????
Even if I had been initially treated with benzodiazapines, there would have been significantly less collateral dammage.
I'm young, but I'm not dumb. Its better that I suffer with excrutiating anxiety untill what I deem to be an appropriate treatment arrives, then to ruin myself now, and be unable to benefit from a good treatment when it comes along.
I have lost a lot of confidence, and again I know that is NOT the depression. On or off medications, depressed or not depressed, I have a lot of trouble doing the things I once did (ie to walk)
There is also the other problem and that is the fact that my memory is state dependant. In university, I learned everything on a SSRI. On the SSRI, I can remember it all, off the SSRI, it doesn't make any sence. Again, this has *Nothing* to do with the depression.It is all very complex, and the situation is a very sad one. It is extremely sad, because I will probably have to end up taking the drugs again, so that I can function normally again. Walking, thinking, moving etc. I cry a lot when I think about how I might have been a healthy young male.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you get one thing from this post, please understand this:
At this time in my life, Im not ruined because I am depressed, I am depressed because I am ruined.
This is NOT a manifestation of my depression. This is a fact.
LinakdgeThe funny thing is that a good cup of coffee slashes those suicidal feelings down even further.
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 21:26:42
In reply to Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 19:08:30
Link, I'm glad you're back. And I'm glad I never let the pdocs give me high doses of AD's. The luvox at 250mg for a few months if that was the most. And l0mg of paxil. The others I couldn't tolerate and only took for a few days each. Longest AD's were a combo of 5mg paxil and l2.5mg of luvox. Now I'm on 25mg of zoloft. The benzos yes, but not in the doses some people take. I say listen to your body. A funny thing is when I was extremely anxious I always knew when I could tolerate coffee. And there were times I knew I couldn't. And I was always right. I wouldn't take the AP's for anxiety. That was too much. I think maybe a really good therapist is what you need. I haven't found anyone I can click with. Maxime recommends CBT and I once was in a group for it. It makes sense. Challenge your irrational thoughts with realistic ones that are true. This should be an interesting Thread. I want you to get well Link. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 22:35:19
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 21:26:42
Basically I just need something to help my anxiety that won't make me a........
psychotic, dystonic insomniac, with neuralgia dystonia, dyspepsia, dyslexia, somnolence, hot flashes, cold flashes, increased sweating, dry mouth, dizziness, fatigue, malaise, abdomnial pain, consipation, shock-like sensations, anorieia, agiation, tremor, parathesia, rash, abnormal vision, headache, nervousness, palpatition, tremor, clammy skin, priapism, ademia, hypotention, twiching, confusion, ataxia, convulsions, hyperkinsea, vertigo, migrane, abormal co-ordination, colitus, diverticulitus, hemorrhage, hepatic dysfunction, yawning, depression, paranoia, teeth grinding, hallucination, agressive reaction, delusions, suicidal idealation, coughing dyspepsia, hypervenalation, stupor, apnea, bronchitis, ear ache, eye pain, renal pain, increased coagulation time, bradychardia, increased liver enzymes, jaundice, vomiting, death, weight gain, sexual side effects, tinnitus, eye pain, ear ache, visual dystortions, abnormal accomodation, hypotention, asthenia, fever, tachycardia, Gamma Glutamyl, anxiety, rhinitus, tremor, agiation, Parkinsonism, EPS, ESP, PMS, RLS, ECG abnormality, delerium, tachcardia, salvaton, abnormal dreams, abormal thinking, abnormal libito, manic reacton, apathy, deperonalization, bruxusm, involintary movements, confusion, catatonic reaction, aphasia, emotional lability, suicide attempt, photosensitivity, enlarged abdomen, gingivitis, flatulence, abnormal thirst, frontal cortex hypofunction, GI upset, addiction, tollerance, Poop out, abnormal hormone secretion, physical dependance, psychological dependance, agranulocytosis, kidney failure, impulsivity, irrational fear, electrolite imballence, weight loss, epilepticus, pancreatis, nausia, bone mineral density abnormalities, lethargy, stroke, chest pain, heart attack, weakness, violent behaviors, emotional instablility, voice alteration, dry lips, nail dystrophy, hypercortisolism, PKC activation, hearing impairment, decreased night vision, loss of depth preception, abnormal pitch preception, eyelid inflammation, wierdness, low IQ, fear of scissors, Weierd Al Yankovic Addiction, Childishness, Pill obsession, "inability to wait for next pill" syndrome, brain fog, mind noise, abnormal taste, leg pain, day dreaming, wheezing,
hypersensitivity to sound, increased use of addictive substances, OCD, medication hoarding, Diarrhea, short term memory loss, long term memory loss, neurotoxicity, rebound depression,
tendancy to lash out, blurred vision, decreased imagination, panic attacks, pelvic pain, rigity, change in sexual preference, iron deficiancy, generalized spazm, and tendancy to need more drugs.Is this too much to ask for ????
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 22:42:51
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 22:35:19
So are these the possible side effects of medications? Of course your pdoc will tell you that they really don't happen. It's just that the FDA says they have to mention them. I guess to abvoid lawsuits. I don't think you've left anything out except maybe cross dressing. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 22:57:57
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 22:42:51
I guess what I am really trying to say is that I
don't have an options anymore.Linkadge
Posted by TomG on May 27, 2005, at 23:03:19
In reply to Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 19:08:30
I doubt that you had akathisia from reading your post. You didn't say anything about restlessness that is so common with akathisia or the objective factors like rocking while sitting or standing or the moving and crossing of the legs while sitting. Usually there is no doubt in one's mind that they have akathisia when presented the definition. It is a very distinct side effect.
Posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:37:40
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 21:26:42
HI baby....
glad ur off the meds ... ditto and hugs and kisses and cuddles .. missed u so much i am so glad im of them and i am getting so much better.. the shakyness brain zaps brain shakes and the unsteadiness and learning of meds is so flipping hard but im doing it.. im getting better.. im learning to drive, im learning to be a good mum..
life is good and cofe is gr8 for me to and sweets make me feel high and when im low usually at night time im in bed ..
love u and keep posting.. hope u still got my private email addy ... @msn.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:40:03
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:37:40
OH and as for anxiety ????????????? well for me wat am i anxious about? question it all ..
anxious cus i feel ruined.. not bloody likely .. the bad men in my head aint getting better of me no bloody wayyyyyyy ...
hugs again and kisses xxxxx
Posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:41:38
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:40:03
GOD IM SO HAPPPPPPPPPPPPY FOR YOU ...
will take a while linky baby but u will get better... its been 10 mnths for me now and only now i am starting to feel better 90% better :-) stick with it its so worth it.. when u feel down u get bk up...
life aint ruined its just starting :)
Posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:42:15
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:40:03
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 23:42:22
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by crazychickuk on May 27, 2005, at 23:40:03
Crazychick, How come you only post when Link is here? Me thinks you have a crush on him! Hmmmmm! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 0:28:36
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » crazychickuk, posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2005, at 23:42:22
"You didn't say anything about restlessness that is so common with akathisia or the objective factors like rocking while sitting or standing or the moving and crossing of the legs while sitting. Usually there is no doubt in one's mind that they have akathisia when presented the definition."
I don't mean to sound abrupt, but I have had all of these symptoms.
When I sit, my head does this slow sinusoidal chicken-pecking motion. It also turns to the left and gets suck there sometimes.
As for restlessness, I have had terrable time sitting for more than a minaute or two. I have to get up from eating dinner, just so I can take a
move. The last four times I went to the theatre, I had to leave 15 minautes in because I got restless. I made repeated washroom breaks last church service. I broke through my jaw splint very prematurely from jaw clenching. I have a hard time writing a parahraph because my fist seizes up. I have difficulty playing a church hymn, My eyes got locked into a "up left" position which responded to clonazepam and cogentin, I chew, even when there is nothing in my mouth and repeatedly perform this "open my mouth as wide as it can go" routine. When I am sitting I describe my posture like a pretzel. I have a terrable sensation that I am going to explode (like a jumping out of my skin sensation) Which, by the way, was not nearly as pronounced on remeron. Sometimes I cannot swallow properly,
I have the sensation that I have somebody pusing me from behind. I really doesn't matter to me, if the doctor or anyone else ignores these symptoms, but it is fairly clear cut to me.This is pretty much why I don't go to the doctors like I should anymore. When I say I have a symptom, they say that it is all in your mind.
And continue to treat the problem the way they see it.When it comes to my body, I have a pretty good idea what is what.
Linkadge
Posted by sleepygirl on May 28, 2005, at 1:08:03
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 22:35:19
I think everyone can agree that the very worst thing would be the Weird Al Yankovic addiction, now there is a tragedy.
But seriously, I'm glad you alerted me to the possibility of a change in sexual preference, I'll have to buy new clothes.
May you feel better soon, may the cure not be worse that the disease.
Posted by sleepygirl on May 28, 2005, at 1:12:31
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 0:28:36
this is persistent for you, even off the meds? I'm so sorry. Why anyone would suggest it is in your mind is strange. I have heard lots of people complain about these symptoms in some form. Can you tell me what did it so I can be sure to avoid it?
Posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 1:47:32
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by sleepygirl on May 28, 2005, at 1:12:31
I don't know where I went wrong.
Just happened that slowly over time things just got worse.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 11:12:58
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 1:47:32
Hi Linkie!
I'm glad you're back :-) It sounds like you've been having a lot of dystonias. I *do* think they're likely to improve or disappear in time. Since you're young, the chance of recovery from a movement disorder is much higher.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 15:04:49
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 11:12:58
Or perhaps much worse since it occured in such critical times during my development.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 15:58:50
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 15:04:49
Hi Links,
>Or perhaps much worse since it occured in such critical times during my development.
I doubt it. Even AP-induced tardive movement disorders are less likely to be permanent in adolescents and young adults than in older people.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 16:47:17
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 15:58:50
If dammage is done, thats fairly permanent. Its probably more a matter of younger individuals being more capable at making adaptive compensations.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 17:20:58
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 16:47:17
Hi,
>If dammage is done, thats fairly permanent.
That's not the case. Even tardive dyskinesia can completely disappear in time, especially in young people. Alienatari developed TD, it's nearly completely disappeared already and he's only been off APs for a short while.
Ed.
Posted by crazychickuk on May 28, 2005, at 17:42:25
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 17:20:58
Links give it time.. it will get better
dont ruin it bye taking any more meds.. try and get some therapy for the negative thoughts, the more you worry the worse it gets...
Posted by Declan on May 28, 2005, at 17:49:59
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 0:28:36
Is that a dystonic reaction, or something like it? I had one once from Torecan, a phenothiazine anti-nausea drug. It needed, I don't know, 50mg diazepam, which wasn't enough and then Cogentin. Scarey. You know all this stuff about herbs, vitamins and supplements.......perhaps there is something there that will help you without damaging you further. I see a nutritional doctor who really only uses that sort of stuff as well as bioidentical hormones. I was in quite bad shape and 4 years later I am very much better, just normally bad. Nice to hear from you.
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 17:58:36
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 16:47:17
>There have been some tremendous improvements but some things that are still scaring the heck out of me.
You see, there have been improvements already :-) Just think how much MORE you could improve........
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 18:00:26
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by Declan on May 28, 2005, at 17:49:59
>I had one once from Torecan, a phenothiazine anti-nausea drug. It needed, I don't know, 50mg diazepam, which wasn't enough and then Cogentin. Scarey.
It is scary! I had a dystonic reaction to chlorpromazine (Thorazine, Largactil). My tongue went into spasm, it was hard to speak.
Ed.
Posted by Jakeman on May 28, 2005, at 23:58:24
In reply to Re: Ok, I'm back, good and bad, posted by linkadge on May 27, 2005, at 22:35:19
Great post. Reminds me of a conversation I had with my doctor about choosing between Wellbutrin or an SSRI. Is was like... would you rather have increased anxiety and insomnia or would you prefer to become impotent and develop food cravings.
> Basically I just need something to help my anxiety that won't make me a........
>
> psychotic, dystonic insomniac, with neuralgia dystonia, dyspepsia, dyslexia, somnolence, hot flashes, cold flashes, increased sweating, dry mouth, dizziness, fatigue, malaise, abdomnial pain, consipation, shock-like sensations, anorieia, agiation, tremor, parathesia, rash, abnormal vision, headache, nervousness, palpatition, tremor, clammy skin, priapism, ademia, hypotention, twiching, confusion, ataxia, convulsions, hyperkinsea, vertigo, migrane, abormal co-ordination, colitus, diverticulitus, hemorrhage, hepatic dysfunction, yawning, depression, paranoia, teeth grinding, hallucination, agressive reaction, delusions, suicidal idealation, coughing dyspepsia, hypervenalation, stupor, apnea, bronchitis, ear ache, eye pain, renal pain, increased coagulation time, bradychardia, increased liver enzymes, jaundice, vomiting, death, weight gain, sexual side effects, tinnitus, eye pain, ear ache, visual dystortions, abnormal accomodation, hypotention, asthenia, fever, tachycardia, Gamma Glutamyl, anxiety, rhinitus, tremor, agiation, Parkinsonism, EPS, ESP, PMS, RLS, ECG abnormality, delerium, tachcardia, salvaton, abnormal dreams, abormal thinking, abnormal libito, manic reacton, apathy, deperonalization, bruxusm, involintary movements, confusion, catatonic reaction, aphasia, emotional lability, suicide attempt, photosensitivity, enlarged abdomen, gingivitis, flatulence, abnormal thirst, frontal cortex hypofunction, GI upset, addiction, tollerance, Poop out, abnormal hormone secretion, physical dependance, psychological dependance, agranulocytosis, kidney failure, impulsivity, irrational fear, electrolite imballence, weight loss, epilepticus, pancreatis, nausia, bone mineral density abnormalities, lethargy, stroke, chest pain, heart attack, weakness, violent behaviors, emotional instablility, voice alteration, dry lips, nail dystrophy, hypercortisolism, PKC activation, hearing impairment, decreased night vision, loss of depth preception, abnormal pitch preception, eyelid inflammation, wierdness, low IQ, fear of scissors, Weierd Al Yankovic Addiction, Childishness, Pill obsession, "inability to wait for next pill" syndrome, brain fog, mind noise, abnormal taste, leg pain, day dreaming, wheezing,
> hypersensitivity to sound, increased use of addictive substances, OCD, medication hoarding, Diarrhea, short term memory loss, long term memory loss, neurotoxicity, rebound depression,
> tendancy to lash out, blurred vision, decreased imagination, panic attacks, pelvic pain, rigity, change in sexual preference, iron deficiancy, generalized spazm, and tendancy to need more drugs.
>
>
>
> Is this too much to ask for ????
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
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