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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 0:06:23
I emailed this to my psychiatrist who treats me for suicidal depression, social anxiety, and moodiness.
"Hey doc,
this may seem like an out of the blue question: could I have some mild form of asperger's syndrome? I see some of the autistic elements to my thinking (like, hello, where is my executive functions to connect memory to speech to feelings.) And, I never feel intimacy with anyone. But other parts
I don't see in the definition of asperger's: the intense concentration on a single subject... but you have always put me in the ocd category which I never understood so maybe you see something there I can not. Just curious.R."
My doc emailed back a one word reply: "Yes."
I didn't really expect him to say, "yes." I expected, "of course, not." I'm 37 years old. I'm just kinda freaked and thinking "now what?" Any support out there?
Posted by Declan on May 19, 2005, at 0:48:40
In reply to freaked out by asperger's, posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 0:06:23
Hi River
No intimacy with anyone, OK, but what about empathy? Just curious. (And interested...classical autism in the family)
Declan
Posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 2:25:07
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by Declan on May 19, 2005, at 0:48:40
No classical autism in family.
I had intimacy once for a few hours. I was just on a walk with a friend and I could suddenly express myself and improvise ideas on the spot and have a dialogue. (I was 20 and had stopped taking a very high dose of loxitane several days earlier... I think my brain hit a sweet spot as it adjusted. My stupid diagnosis at the time was pre-schizophrenic.) I would never have known what I was missing and I wish it hadn't happened.
Empathy? I can not sense another person's pleasure. And, when I was 20, I had to be told other's had feelings. I'm not good at naming my own feelings so I'm not good at naming someone else's. I can pick up the general tone of someone's mood. I'm somewhat intuitive or I think it would be much worse. I work in a nursing home and the elderly appreciate my care and concern for their comfort. I can't make them laugh usually but I do notice if they are uncomfortable.
Posted by Declan on May 19, 2005, at 4:30:14
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by Declan on May 19, 2005, at 0:48:40
Hi, no I meant me, that is my brother is classically autistic. Some people have said that autistic people "lack a theory of mind". This might mean (something like) having difficulty seeing things from another's perspective. There have been some interesting experiments invoving perception detailed in "Autism: Explaining the enigma" by Uta Frith. Some autistic type people have a clear kind of attention that might be similar to OCD. Big overlap there. In "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat", Oliver Sacks details these autistic twins whose way of passing the time was to swap prime numbers, and they were doing it in 4 figure ones. Interesting stuff,eh?
Declan
Posted by Maxime on May 19, 2005, at 7:23:59
In reply to freaked out by asperger's, posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 0:06:23
Hi. Well you would need more testing to know for sure. I know that many people with Aspergers react well to Risperidone. But don't jump the gun yet. Even if you don't have Aspergers (which I hope you don't), I think psychotherapy would help you great deal.
Maxime
> I emailed this to my psychiatrist who treats me for suicidal depression, social anxiety, and moodiness.
>
> "Hey doc,
>
> this may seem like an out of the blue question: could I have some mild form of asperger's syndrome? I see some of the autistic elements to my thinking (like, hello, where is my executive functions to connect memory to speech to feelings.) And, I never feel intimacy with anyone. But other parts
> I don't see in the definition of asperger's: the intense concentration on a single subject... but you have always put me in the ocd category which I never understood so maybe you see something there I can not. Just curious.
>
> R."
>
> My doc emailed back a one word reply: "Yes."
>
> I didn't really expect him to say, "yes." I expected, "of course, not." I'm 37 years old. I'm just kinda freaked and thinking "now what?" Any support out there?
Posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 11:30:51
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » River1924, posted by Maxime on May 19, 2005, at 7:23:59
My pdoc is a smart guy and one of the rare med docotrs who actually wants to talk for awhile and has known me for a long time. From what I read there is no real test (esp if one is an adult), just symtoms, so my doc would have intereacted with me enough to know. Plus the main symptom with asperger's and other austism spectrum disorders is chronic social difficulties. I'm not sure what kind of doctor would specialize in this in adults. Plus, I wonder if there are other meds (some I haven't tried : )...that might help for this. Asperger's wasn't put in the DSM until 1994. There are probably others on this site with depression and "social phobia" and ocd that really have asperger's.
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2005, at 19:26:57
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 11:30:51
Is asperger's just a lack of feelings? If so then it sounds like the apathy caused by the SSRI's. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by fires on May 19, 2005, at 22:05:00
In reply to freaked out by asperger's, posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 0:06:23
I at one time worked with a few people with Asperger's.
I'm curious if you have/do any of the following (not all are considered to be due to Asperger's only) :
-- Don't make "normal" eye contact with people.
-- Have trouble understanding abstract concepts.
-- Tend to "see" sounds or "hear" colors.
-- Walked on your "tip toes" as a child
-- Have trouble understanding some simple jokes
-- Have an area of interest that is much greater than any other interest
-- Have trouble in conversations -- don't know when to pause and let others interject
Posted by Declan on May 19, 2005, at 23:13:42
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » River1924, posted by fires on May 19, 2005, at 22:05:00
Hi again, Temple Grandin has some suggestions for drug use with autistic people, you might have heard of her. (You could try googling her and/or the centre for the study of autism.)
declan
Posted by Maxime on May 20, 2005, at 6:00:23
In reply to freaked out by asperger's, posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 0:06:23
HI River, you should also check and see if their are any YAHOO groups or other discussion groups on just Aspergers and see how it goes. I knew one man with it and he took Paxil which helped him a lot as did psychotherapy. His sons had it and they took Risperidone. So I think there are options out there for you.
Let us know.
Maxime
> I emailed this to my psychiatrist who treats me for suicidal depression, social anxiety, and moodiness.
>
> "Hey doc,
>
> this may seem like an out of the blue question: could I have some mild form of asperger's syndrome? I see some of the autistic elements to my thinking (like, hello, where is my executive functions to connect memory to speech to feelings.) And, I never feel intimacy with anyone. But other parts
> I don't see in the definition of asperger's: the intense concentration on a single subject... but you have always put me in the ocd category which I never understood so maybe you see something there I can not. Just curious.
>
> R."
>
> My doc emailed back a one word reply: "Yes."
>
> I didn't really expect him to say, "yes." I expected, "of course, not." I'm 37 years old. I'm just kinda freaked and thinking "now what?" Any support out there?
Posted by KayeBaby on May 20, 2005, at 15:01:56
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by Maxime on May 20, 2005, at 6:00:23
this is a good aspie email group
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/aspergershighfunctioningautism/Having some aspergers traits is nothing to despair about at all. I am 37 also and am NLD (non-verbal learning disorder)
which is very similar to aspergers except the gifted area is verbal and language. I have terrible spatial albility and have a math deficit. Not great at reading social cues either, but am strangely intuitive at times as well.I wish you well!
Kaye
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 20, 2005, at 16:04:29
In reply to freaked out by asperger's, posted by River1924 on May 19, 2005, at 0:06:23
> ... "Hey doc, this may seem like an out of the blue question: could I have some mild form of asperger's syndrome? I see some of the autistic elements to my thinking (like, hello, where is my executive functions to connect memory to speech to feelings.) And, I never feel intimacy with anyone. But other parts
> I don't see in the definition of asperger's: the intense concentration on a single subject... but you have always put me in the ocd category which I never understood so maybe you see something there I can not. Just curious.
>
> R."
>
> My doc emailed back a one word reply: "Yes."
>
> I didn't really expect him to say, "yes." I expected, "of course, not." I'm 37 years old. I'm just kinda freaked and thinking "now what?" Any support out there?I learned a lot about Asperger's (and similar/related disorders) two years ago when my then 3rd-grader went through evaluations to try to find out what is "wrong" with him. Long story short: The experts never agreed on anything except that he is is highly gifted. Gifted people (especially highly or profoundly) often behave enough outside the norm to be "disordered", have social problems, be clumsy, be very sensitive -- physically and emotionally. Because they are sensitive and often misunderstood, they can suffer from depression and anxiety, too. I've heard (but don't know if it's true) that the Asperger's group has a higher percentage of gifted members than the average population. And my personal feeling is that highly or profoundly gifted people are often Asperger-ish. That's why I decided to quit trying to find a label for my son and mostly address his gifted needs -- and other stuff on an as-needed basis. (He gets ongoing speech therapy for social skills, and sometimes OT for sensory and motor-skills issues.)
Are you familiar with Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration? Here's a link: http://members.shaw.ca/positivedisintegration/#overview
Or the misdiagnosis of gifted kids? Here are a couple of links on that:
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counseling/Webb_MisdiagnosisAndDualDiagnosisOfGiftedChildren.shtml
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_counseling/Amend_MisdiagnosisOfAspergersDisorder.shtml
There are support groups for adults with Asperger's. Here are a few links.
http://www.aha-as-pdd.org/
http://www.grasp.org/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/adult-asperger/
http://www.danda.org.uk/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AspergersSingles/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-PEOPLE/
http://www.aspergeradults.ca/If these don't interest you, just Google "asperger adult" and you should find plenty to keep you busy.
PS: I'll bet there is a higher percentage of gifted people on this site than in the general population, too.
Posted by fires on May 20, 2005, at 18:00:54
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 20, 2005, at 16:04:29
>>Because they are sensitive and often misunderstood, they can suffer from depression and anxiety, too.<<
Being sensitive and misunderstood causes depression and anxiety !?
Maybe you mean a very mild type of depression and anxiety?
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 20, 2005, at 20:18:46
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Minnie-Haha, posted by fires on May 20, 2005, at 18:00:54
> Being sensitive and misunderstood causes depression and anxiety !?
>
> Maybe you mean a very mild type of depression and anxiety?In my opinion, a person who is hypersensitive and most of the time misunderstood could very well get depressed and/or anxious. This is a person who is in pain and lonely. I doubt that feeling sensitive sometimes or occasionally being misunderstood would cause that, but I guess if the stars were all lined up just right (brain chemistry, family history, current circumstances), even that's not outside of the realm of possibility.
Posted by fires on May 20, 2005, at 21:25:30
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » fires, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 20, 2005, at 20:18:46
I asked the question because I thought that the idea of "reactive" depression had been put to rest, and replaced with situational sadness.
I subscribe to the idea that depression is a multi-system, multi-organ disease:
Posted by River1924 on May 21, 2005, at 0:48:00
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Minnie-Haha, posted by fires on May 20, 2005, at 21:25:30
I'm not sure what reactive depression is... I have severe depression (without drugs I obsess about suicide within 2 weeks) and social anxiety (without drugs I act like a lizard... hiding if I think someone on the sidewalk is coming to our house or if I see someone in the grocery store I know.) Now, for the moment, let's assume some of my personality traits are a consequence of Asperger's syndrome. I'm lonely. I haven't had a close friend for several years. When I was younger, young women would be attracted to me. I'm gay but their infatuations would make them much more assertive about our friendships and, somehow, friendships happened. It was nothing I did because I don't know how to do it. In school I couldn't give speeches (I dropped out of college three times due to public speaking) and I have trouble with conversations because I don't know what to communicate. What do "they" know and feel and what do I know and feel? Both are questions I have trouble answering. So, being totally confused, I just don't say anything. I'm totally isolated. As a child, a classmate would visit a lot and stay nights and this went on for several years. We had a lot of fun. But one time in eight grade, he talked about our friendship and I asked, "Are we friends?" He was hurt and I was confused. So, even if there is someone in my life, I may not (however this is possible) know it. So, my point is: as life goes on lonliness turns into despair, frustration into hopelessnee, and normal stuff an endless source of mystery and anxiety. I don't know what you were referring to... but this is my experience regardless of the theory. Peace and good will, River.
Posted by River1924 on May 21, 2005, at 0:50:26
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 20, 2005, at 16:04:29
Thank-you. River.
Posted by fires on May 21, 2005, at 11:26:40
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » fires, posted by River1924 on May 21, 2005, at 0:48:00
I typed up a long reply (for me), then decided that it was inadequate and not quite appropriate for your situation.
Best wishes
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 21, 2005, at 12:51:45
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Minnie-Haha, posted by fires on May 20, 2005, at 21:25:30
> I asked the question because I thought that the idea of "reactive" depression had been put to rest, and replaced with situational sadness.
>
> I subscribe to the idea that depression is a multi-system, multi-organ disease:
>
> http://www.szasz.com/isdepressionadiseasetranscript.htmlI don't know much about theories on what causes depression, but I figure if a person who is constantly surrounded by danger (real or perceived) can have a change in their body and brain chemistry (high cortisol, anxiety, PTSD), then I don't see how it's outside the range of possibilty that if someone is constantly in some other challenging situation (loneliness, confusion) that that couldn't lead to physical changes. Also, the people we're talking about are "wired" a bit differently than "normal" (whatever that means) people anyway, so it's hard to apply what we know about normal people to them, IMO. However, I think that like "normal" people, they can respond well to therapy, RX AND talk. But I think you have to apply different kinds of therapy, or apply the therapy differently, than you might for a normal person.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 21, 2005, at 13:06:23
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Minnie-Haha, posted by River1924 on May 21, 2005, at 0:50:26
> Thank-you. River.
You're welcome. And try not to get too caught up in what is "wrong" with you. Identify the areas where you need improvement (if you need help with that, ask others who know you well), and try to work on those. Think about what is RIGHT with you. Your strengths. How can you use that to help you in your weak areas? How could these help you socialize (join clubs or something)? I hope you find a support group that you feel at home in. (I know you are welcome here and hope you stay around no matter what other groups you might find.) You sound like a fine human being to me!
Minnie
Posted by fires on May 21, 2005, at 14:33:39
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » fires, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 21, 2005, at 12:51:45
I just get concerned about the psychosocial theories of depression because there are so many situations were the theories fall apart.
Examples:
People with relatively normal lives can suddenly be hit with depression like a bolt from the blue. (No major stressors).
Most of the 9/11 "survivors" did not develop PTSD or depression.
Brooke Shields -- in the news: No history of depression until her post-partem episode.
Etc....
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2005, at 17:34:51
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Minnie-Haha, posted by fires on May 21, 2005, at 14:33:39
Wow Minniehaha, That was some article. 35pages. I copied it to read later on. I did read some of it and it reminded me of what a pharmacy student told me at the health fair today where we presented Melaleuca. Small amt of people in store today so plenty of time to talk. I showed her one of the posts to a thread from here where it is cited that there is no true SSRI and she agreed. She is summa cum laude from Chapel Hill and I know she's very smart. I asked her if she understood all the info and she did. I then told her that none of the AD's had worked for me. She then said "maybe you're not depressed". This goes along with what was in your link I believe. So I will read all of it tonight. I find it much easier to socialize on the internet than in person. While my husband said noone can tell I'm not comfortable in a crowd I am. The thought of setting up an appointment with someone and being "trapped" with them scares me to death. Then if they don't like what I am promoting I am crushed and tell myself that i can't do it. When I was an RN I used to love being around my patients but I was also in control of how much time I was with them. I left when I wanted to. And the people I worked with? I never socialized with any of them on the outside. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 21, 2005, at 22:09:05
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Minnie-Haha, posted by fires on May 21, 2005, at 14:33:39
I'm no expert. But maybe some people are kinda predisposed to these things, and certain circumstances or events can set them off. Kinda like a car driving along with a lose wire, doing fine while the road is smooth, but then it hits a bump and wham! short circuits! Or (another car analogy), a car with a not-full radiator. While it's driving along on a cool day and a flat road, it's ok, but once the weather gets hot and/or the road starts to climb... Well, you know where I'm going with that.
But I appreciate your opinion. I think sharing opinions here (and few of us really seem to be experts, except on our own suffering) is a big part of what it's all about.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 21, 2005, at 22:12:50
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2005, at 17:34:51
> Wow Minniehaha, That was some article. 35pages. I copied it to read later on...
Do you mean "Is Depression a Disease?" That link was posted by fires. I skimmed it, but it was a bit too much for me to take in detail right now.
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2005, at 22:39:21
In reply to Re: freaked out by asperger's » Phillipa, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 21, 2005, at 22:12:50
I skimmed it too. When I saw how long it was I turned on the copier. Wow was I surprised when I saw it was 35 pages. A mini book. Thanks Fires. Credit where it is deserved. Fondly, Phillipa
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