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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Optimist on February 27, 2005, at 11:40:49
In reply to Re: Parnate » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on February 26, 2005, at 10:40:28
> Where have you read this? I honestly wouldn't recommend increasing the dose until you've been on 60mg long enough to find out how it's going to affect you.
I can't remember the exact sources... mostly from doing searches here and on google. I think Jay Amsterdam MD, says something about it specifically. He supposedly routinely uses high dose Parnate(up to 330mg) with TRD patients. I know Chairman_MAO mentioned the high dose change in pharmacodynamics a couple times here.
The lithium isn't so much to increase the effectiveness of Parnate as it is to prevent poopout... more as a prophylactic. My grandmother was Bipolar 1, and had a tragic ending after she went off her lithium 30 years ago. My sister may most possibly be bipolar 1 as well. She hasn't been diagnosed as so... so far she's been diagnosed with some schizoaffective disorder. When she's psychotic though she hardly sleeps at all, and has felt suicidal at other times. She's currently taking 60mg Celexa, and 15mg Zyprexa. Lastly my father has had major depression for the last 20 years. He's hinted at having hypomania at times, but the depression is there probably 99% of the time. He's on Amitryptaline, and Divalproex(Epival), partly for depression and partly for chronic migraine prophylaxis.
I've wrestled with the idea that I may have some bipolar variant for a number of years now, probably cyclothymia or a form that goes from dysthymia to normal. I've been called a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde by my current girlfriend. :)
> >If I was in your case I think I would just order the stuff my self.
>
> I'm thinking of it!Whatever you do make sure you have the necessary failsafes to keep you on track. Arming yourself with a lot of knowledge can only make things better. You seem well on your way to achieving that though. :)
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on February 27, 2005, at 12:02:55
In reply to Re: Parnate » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on February 27, 2005, at 11:40:49
Hi Brian!
>The lithium isn't so much to increase the effectiveness of Parnate as it is to prevent poopout... more as a prophylactic.
If you do decide to add lithium, I'd definitely suggest a very low dose eg. plasma conc 0.3-0.4. High doses are more useful as a treatment for mania and tend to be unpleasant.
>My sister may most possibly be bipolar 1 as well. She hasn't been diagnosed as so... so far she's been diagnosed with some schizoaffective disorder.
Probably schizoaffective disorder, bipolar sub-type.
>I've been called a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde by my current girlfriend. :)
Why does she call you that? I bet you aren't as irritable as me!
Good luck,
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on February 27, 2005, at 15:59:47
In reply to Re: Parnate » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on February 27, 2005, at 12:02:55
> If you do decide to add lithium, I'd definitely suggest a very low dose eg. plasma conc 0.3-0.4. High doses are more useful as a treatment for mania and tend to be unpleasant.
That's what I would be aiming for... I've never had severe mood swings, so a lower dose would probably suit fine. The only thing I'd really worry about at lower doses would be acne since I am predisposed to it, although I have it under control at the moment for the first time in my life. :) I'm wondering if any of the supplements/drugs I'm on are helping in that regard. The last few months I've had good skin.
> Probably schizoaffective disorder, bipolar sub-type.
Yeah probably, she was prescribed lithium in the summer during an especially psychotic period. She did not want to take it though since she was pregnant at the time. The biggest reason she wouldn't taken it is probably due to it's negative connotation with it's use in bipolar. It sounds a lot worse than what it really is. Personally I think Zyprexa is a much harsher drug.
>
> >I've been called a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde by my current girlfriend. :)
>
> Why does she call you that? I bet you aren't as irritable as me!My personality can be very flat, quiet, and introverted during my depressive phases. I also tend to have more mood reactivity especially when I have some caffeine in me then. Other times when I'm feeling better I can be much more charasmatic, exciting, sexual, social, etc... so I bet it can be confusing for her at times. She has said that I would be a different person everytime she saw me. Perhaps that's how well the depression was fighting through at that particular time, or the mood reactivity associated with atypical depression. I find it hard to self evaluate sometimes. Whatever may seem normal to me, may seem moody to others so who knows.
My pdoc doesn't think I have any form of bipolar though since I don't have much variation in sleeping from when I'm depressed to when I'm feeling better. I can never feel rested after 3 hours sleep, not even after 5 or 6 during either period. I usually require between 8 and 10 hours depending on the day.
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on February 27, 2005, at 16:19:05
In reply to Re: Parnate » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on February 27, 2005, at 15:59:47
Hi Brian!
I also used to have acne. I took Roaccutane (Accutane) and it went away.
>Other times when I'm feeling better I can be much more charasmatic, exciting, sexual, social, etc...
You sound nice :-) It would be fun to meet you and the other people on p-babble.
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on February 27, 2005, at 22:52:57
In reply to Re: Parnate » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on February 27, 2005, at 16:19:05
Hey Ed,
> I also used to have acne. I took Roaccutane (Accutane) and it went away.
Yeah I've been on it twice myself. The first time exactly coincided with the start of my first depression at age 17. How about you, any similarities between the two? I found Accutane didn't really help that much long term, short term yes. I took 90mg per day the first time and experienced bad depression, then the second time it was 40mg or something around there I think and now that I recall I think I was much more tired than usual then. Since depression runs in my family the accutane may have brought the susceptability out. It's possible...
> You sound nice :-) It would be fun to meet you and the other people on p-babble.
I was thinking the same thing. There's many interesting and intelligent people on these boards, although a reunion most likely wouldn't be practical. I find myself looking for certain people's posts when I log on here. Usually people with similar problems and/or drugs, as well as the more astute fellows here. I often find myself thinking of ideas to help others on this board when I'm doing other things. I find it rewarding to help someone who may be suffering. It may be only one or two distinctions that can make all the difference in one's life. :)
All the best,
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on February 28, 2005, at 7:59:48
In reply to Re: Parnate » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on February 27, 2005, at 22:52:57
Hi Brian :-)
>The first time exactly coincided with the start of my first depression at age 17. How about you, any similarities between the two?
I'm not sure really. Soon after I took it I started sleeping all day and dropped out of school. I don't know if there's any link though.
>I took 90mg per day the first time and experienced bad depression, then the second time it was 40mg or something around there I think and now that I recall I think I was much more tired than usual then.
I took 70mg for 3-4 months.
>There's many interesting and intelligent people on these boards, although a reunion most likely wouldn't be practical.
No... it wouldn't, we all live too far away! Must go to bed now, still recovering from a virus :-(
All the best,
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on February 28, 2005, at 11:52:09
In reply to Re: Parnate » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on February 28, 2005, at 7:59:48
Hey Ed,
> I'm not sure really. Soon after I took it I started sleeping all day and dropped out of school. I don't know if there's any link though.It's possible Accutane may have had a hand in your fatigue. What's done is done though, so it's better to look towards solutions at this point.
> I took 70mg for 3-4 months.
Both my cycles were for 4 months.
> No... it wouldn't, we all live too far away! Must go to bed now, still recovering from a virus :-(
Hope you're feeling better shortly, :)
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on March 2, 2005, at 6:35:44
In reply to Re: Parnate » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on February 28, 2005, at 11:52:09
Hi Brian!
How are you doing on Parnate? Any change? I know it's only early days!
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on March 2, 2005, at 20:28:26
In reply to Re: Parnate, posted by ed_uk on March 2, 2005, at 6:35:44
> Hi Brian!
>
> How are you doing on Parnate? Any change? I know it's only early days!
>
> Ed.Hi Ed,
Thanks for checking in. :)
I would say things are getting better day by day. One thing I have to say is I'm pretty surprised with some people's intolerance of side effects with Parnate. It seems like such a mild drug to me, in terms of side effects that is, not antidepressant efficacy. I don't discount any one's experience with this drug though. I tend to not have many side effects with drugs anyways.
I'm sure you may be shocked but I'm taking 100mg per day now and aren't really experiencing anything negative. Still some mild sexual dysfunction but nothing too major. Less than 20mg of Prozac for sure. I've also heard that it's supposed to go away for the most part on Parnate. With Prozac I'm not as sure.
At 100mg I've noticed much more stimulation, a pleasant mild euphoria I guess the right word would be. Some caffeine contributes significantly to this effect and they seem to work synergistically together. I've noticed I'm becoming more friendly and outgoing as well... more apt to strike up conversations with people. I'm sure this will only get better with time. The prosocial effects of Nardil seem to not kick in till a month for most people. I wonder if Parnate is similar in that regard?
Still no problems with sleeping, hypotension, or mid-day tiredness. I have noticed my mouth is significantly more dry than usual. This seemed to kick in around 60mg, but it's not too big a deal. I drink a lot of water normally anyways.
I think my little blip last mon and tues may have been due to adding some responsibilities to my life and the stress that ensued. I've started looking for a new job to try and find something better than where I currently am, and felt a little guilty for not getting anything done on my days off last week. I do feel that I am looking more to the future though, and planning goals for my life. I find when I'm depressed that is very hard to do. Any concept of future plans and goals at that time felt anxiety provoking to me. Some of my depression ties in to existential analysis I believe. It has been on my mind for the last 10 years or so, what I want to do with my life, and being dysthymic throughout that period made goalsetting very difficult. Actually I made lots of goals but could never stick to them. The bottom always seemed to fall out, or I would become unsure of myself and bail. It's most likely part biological susceptibility, and part perception of life events. I do think there is a strong biological component to it though. It's hard to tease the two apart and figure out what is causing the problem at any particular time.
I'm most likely going to ride out the 100mg for awhile now. I think the peak of MAO inhibition is around 80mg, and it's starting to get expensive at this dosage as well, around $150 CN... all out of pocket. I need to get some insurance! With that and all the supplements I buy it can get pretty expensive. I take a lot of vitamins and minerals, etc... I'm a strong believer that you have to have all the necessary enzymes, and chemical reactions operating properly in order for a medication to work properly.
Hope all is well,
Brian
Posted by willyee on March 2, 2005, at 21:40:52
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on March 2, 2005, at 20:28:26
Hey i too found caffiene at times to go really well with parnate....however it is a contradiction and i was the only one who seemed to do it.....i kinda cut back,it at least makes me feel better to know im not crazy and they can go well togther.
If you dont mind i have two questions id really like to know....how do you dose,as far as increments,this i have trouble with,for example 20 mg dose...30mg dose....etc.The most im able to tolerate at a setting is 40 mg at a single time,im very curious to know your routine.
ALso are you speaking of caffeine in pure pill form like viavrin,this is where i see notable effects,not from average caffiene intake through a soda.
Posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 19:15:53
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report, posted by willyee on March 2, 2005, at 21:40:52
> Hey i too found caffiene at times to go really well with parnate....however it is a contradiction and i was the only one who seemed to do it.....i kinda cut back,it at least makes me feel better to know im not crazy and they can go well togther.
Caffeine doesn't seem to effect my blood pressure much. I can take 400mg at a time and it doesn't seem to do much. The antidepressant qualities and energy though are substantial.
> If you dont mind i have two questions id really like to know....how do you dose,as far as increments,this i have trouble with,for example 20 mg dose...30mg dose....etc.The most im able to tolerate at a setting is 40 mg at a single time,im very curious to know your routine.
My increment dosing went:
Day 1: 20mg (10 at lunch, 10 at dinner)
Day 2 - 5: 40mg (20 breakfast, 20 lunch)
Day 6 - 14: 60mg (20 breakfast, 20 lunch, 20 dinner)
Day 15: 80mg (30 breakfast, 30 lunch, 20 dinner)
Day 16 - 18: 100mg (40 breakfast, 30 lunch, 30 dinner)Hope that helps a bit. I know some people can't take the Parnate that late in the day due to insomnia issues but it hasn't really effected me yet so I'm sticking to this schedule.
Do you mean you can only take 40mg at one time or in total in one day? What kind of problems are you having? Overstimulation, agitation, etc...?
> ALso are you speaking of caffeine in pure pill form like viavrin,this is where i see notable effects,not from average caffiene intake through a soda.
Yes, 200mg caffeine pills. I tend to not be a morning person so they really seem to help me get going especially if I have to get up at 6am for work! I drink coffee the odd time but it tends to mess up my blood sugar(hypoglycemia) so I usually reserve it for a treat.
Brian
Posted by willyee on March 3, 2005, at 22:27:44
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » willyee, posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 19:15:53
> > Hey i too found caffiene at times to go really well with parnate....however it is a contradiction and i was the only one who seemed to do it.....i kinda cut back,it at least makes me feel better to know im not crazy and they can go well togther.
>
> Caffeine doesn't seem to effect my blood pressure much. I can take 400mg at a time and it doesn't seem to do much. The antidepressant qualities and energy though are substantial.
>
> > If you dont mind i have two questions id really like to know....how do you dose,as far as increments,this i have trouble with,for example 20 mg dose...30mg dose....etc.The most im able to tolerate at a setting is 40 mg at a single time,im very curious to know your routine.
>
> My increment dosing went:
>
> Day 1: 20mg (10 at lunch, 10 at dinner)
> Day 2 - 5: 40mg (20 breakfast, 20 lunch)
> Day 6 - 14: 60mg (20 breakfast, 20 lunch, 20 dinner)
> Day 15: 80mg (30 breakfast, 30 lunch, 20 dinner)
> Day 16 - 18: 100mg (40 breakfast, 30 lunch, 30 dinner)
>
> Hope that helps a bit. I know some people can't take the Parnate that late in the day due to insomnia issues but it hasn't really effected me yet so I'm sticking to this schedule.
>
> Do you mean you can only take 40mg at one time or in total in one day? What kind of problems are you having? Overstimulation, agitation, etc...?
>
> > ALso are you speaking of caffeine in pure pill form like viavrin,this is where i see notable effects,not from average caffiene intake through a soda.
>
> Yes, 200mg caffeine pills. I tend to not be a morning person so they really seem to help me get going especially if I have to get up at 6am for work! I drink coffee the odd time but it tends to mess up my blood sugar(hypoglycemia) so I usually reserve it for a treat.
>
> Brian
You answered my question perfectly actualy.As far as daily intake most times its not accumative
so i can take who knows in a daily setting.I was reffering to a single dose,40 is the max and usualy only done if im really getting nothing from it.....lots of times a 30 mg dose or a 20 mg dose is fine.....a 10 mg dose makes me worse unless it is a miantenance dose following a larger dose a few hours later.Thanks again.
Posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 22:47:38
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report, posted by willyee on March 3, 2005, at 22:27:44
> You answered my question perfectly actualy.As far as daily intake most times its not accumative
> so i can take who knows in a daily setting.
>
> I was reffering to a single dose,40 is the max and usualy only done if im really getting nothing from it.....lots of times a 30 mg dose or a 20 mg dose is fine.....a 10 mg dose makes me worse unless it is a miantenance dose following a larger dose a few hours later.Thanks again.I'm a little confused. Do you take 40mg everyday or does your dose depend on how you're feeling?
Brian
Posted by willyee on March 3, 2005, at 23:35:08
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » willyee, posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 22:47:38
I take 70 mg daily.....i try to take less whenever possable.But yess if i have a therputic response i will take 20 mg,if otherwise i over amp myself.
I know this sounds wierd,but i have been on it close to 5 years,and im very familiar with its onset.I did take it at a consistent dose and time my first year or two,but i find it more effective if listen to how im feeling.
This of course is not somethig id advise anyone to do,especialy a person just on it.One example is if i am not having any response,ill begin to take 40 mg doses,in a day or two usualy ill achieve a therputic response,if i stay at this high dosage it will turn to depression and make me tired,so when i hit the range for me it is best to begin to lower it back,again this is only after very exstensive self montering of my reaction to dosages,which i achieved through years of familiarility with the med.
Posted by Optimist on March 4, 2005, at 6:45:40
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report, posted by willyee on March 3, 2005, at 23:35:08
> I take 70 mg daily.....i try to take less whenever possable.But yess if i have a therputic response i will take 20 mg,if otherwise i over amp myself.
>
> I know this sounds wierd,but i have been on it close to 5 years,and im very familiar with its onset.I did take it at a consistent dose and time my first year or two,but i find it more effective if listen to how im feeling.
>
> This of course is not somethig id advise anyone to do,especialy a person just on it.One example is if i am not having any response,ill begin to take 40 mg doses,in a day or two usualy ill achieve a therputic response,if i stay at this high dosage it will turn to depression and make me tired,so when i hit the range for me it is best to begin to lower it back,again this is only after very exstensive self montering of my reaction to dosages,which i achieved through years of familiarility with the med.I know you've had some problems lately with Parnate. Could it be possible your changing the doses around often may be effecting it's AD response? I think there is a difference between the MAO inhibition and stimulant effects time wise. After increasing the dosage, the stimulant effects are almost immediate whereas the MAOi AD response may take up to 8 weeks or so to max out. Could it be you're over-relying on the stimulant effect rather than MAO inhibition? Just a thought...
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on March 4, 2005, at 7:30:39
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on March 2, 2005, at 20:28:26
Hi Brian!
I'm glad to hear you're doing so well :-)
>I'm sure you may be shocked but I'm taking 100mg per day
No, I'm not shocked but it is going to be expensive! Does your doctor know you're taking 100mg?
>I take a lot of vitamins and minerals
What do you take?
Ed.
Posted by willyee on March 4, 2005, at 14:39:36
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report, posted by Optimist on March 4, 2005, at 6:45:40
> > I take 70 mg daily.....i try to take less whenever possable.But yess if i have a therputic response i will take 20 mg,if otherwise i over amp myself.
> >
> > I know this sounds wierd,but i have been on it close to 5 years,and im very familiar with its onset.I did take it at a consistent dose and time my first year or two,but i find it more effective if listen to how im feeling.
> >
> > This of course is not somethig id advise anyone to do,especialy a person just on it.One example is if i am not having any response,ill begin to take 40 mg doses,in a day or two usualy ill achieve a therputic response,if i stay at this high dosage it will turn to depression and make me tired,so when i hit the range for me it is best to begin to lower it back,again this is only after very exstensive self montering of my reaction to dosages,which i achieved through years of familiarility with the med.
>
> I know you've had some problems lately with Parnate. Could it be possible your changing the doses around often may be effecting it's AD response? I think there is a difference between the MAO inhibition and stimulant effects time wise. After increasing the dosage, the stimulant effects are almost immediate whereas the MAOi AD response may take up to 8 weeks or so to max out. Could it be you're over-relying on the stimulant effect rather than MAO inhibition? Just a thought...
>
> Brian
Thats a logical thought....i have tried to take a specific dose at a specific time,and i simply cant tolerate it,depression worsens deeply.I actualy get either a stimulant effect,or a depressive one,what i aim for is the anti depressant effect which it once gave.
What you said is 100 percent accurate,but i have already been through the initial 8 week build up for Maoi effect oh 3 years ago.What i think might be the case is just how my body is absorbing the medication,via what i ate for the day,etc....
Klonopin as needed for example,i havent had to up a dose of that ever,the same dose does the same thing,unfortunatly this is not true with parnate,i feel sometimes its either going right through me,or its worsening the depression,and right when i cant take no more the med will work,its frustrating,but it is the only med effective,so as it stands now its either that or off meds altogther,and im simply not ready for that yet.
Nice to hear from other people who use this med though,other than here its a very rare thing to accomplish.
Posted by Optimist on March 6, 2005, at 12:41:00
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on March 4, 2005, at 7:30:39
> Hi Brian!
>
> I'm glad to hear you're doing so well :-)Thank you.
> No, I'm not shocked but it is going to be expensive! Does your doctor know you're taking 100mg?
Not yet, but I'll tell her next week when I see. She gives me the flexibility to increase my meds if I think I need it, to a certain point.
> >I take a lot of vitamins and minerals
>
> What do you take?Calcium, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium, B5, B6, B12, niacinamide, vitamin E, vitamine A, tyrosine, N-acetyl-cysteine, choline, inositol, and bioflavonoids complex. It a regimand taken from a metabolic typing framework to increase my sympathetic nervous system function, as well as regulating blood sugar and helping with my acne. It's a very interesting book that says certain minerals and vitamins affect the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems differently. And depending on what dominance you are, a certain chemical can make you better or worse.
Hope you're doing well,
Brian
> Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 12:45:10
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on March 6, 2005, at 12:41:00
Hi Opt!
Wow, that's a lot, isn't it expensive to take so many supplements?
I hope the Parnate is still treating you well.
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on March 6, 2005, at 15:00:25
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report, posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 12:45:10
> Hi Opt!
>
> Wow, that's a lot, isn't it expensive to take so many supplements?Yeah it is, around 100 bucks a month Canadian. I figure it's worth it though. Health, mental and physical is very important to me. I enjoy researching supplements as well as drugs as well. :)
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 15:20:43
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on March 6, 2005, at 15:00:25
Hi Opt!
You certainly sound very healthy. I'd love to be healthy. I'm so physically weak though that I can't find the energy to do any exercise.
Ed.
Posted by gromit on March 7, 2005, at 1:15:49
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on March 6, 2005, at 12:41:00
> Calcium, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium, B5, B6, B12, niacinamide, vitamin E, vitamine A, tyrosine, N-acetyl-cysteine, choline, inositol, and bioflavonoids complex. It a regimand taken from a metabolic typing framework to increase my sympathetic nervous system function, as well as regulating blood sugar and helping with my acne. It's a very interesting book that says certain minerals and vitamins affect the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems differently. And depending on what dominance you are, a certain chemical can make you better or worse.
Can you please post the name of the book?
Thanks
Rick
Posted by Optimist on March 7, 2005, at 11:05:46
In reply to Re: Parnate: 2 week progress report, posted by gromit on March 7, 2005, at 1:15:49
> > Calcium, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium, B5, B6, B12, niacinamide, vitamin E, vitamine A, tyrosine, N-acetyl-cysteine, choline, inositol, and bioflavonoids complex. It a regimand taken from a metabolic typing framework to increase my sympathetic nervous system function, as well as regulating blood sugar and helping with my acne. It's a very interesting book that says certain minerals and vitamins affect the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems differently. And depending on what dominance you are, a certain chemical can make you better or worse.
>
> Can you please post the name of the book?
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>The book is called "The Metabolic Typing Diet" by William Wolcott. Here's the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767905644/drbobsvirte00-20
The authors website is:
Another link on metabolic typing:
http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch8.html
The main premise of the book is that different macronutrient(carbohydrates:proteins:fats) and micronutrient(vitamins and minerals) ratios can effect your autonomic nervous system(sympathetic/parasympathetic) and oxidation rate(how fast you metabolize food) to influence your health(mental and physical)
The parasympathetic system is associated with rest and repair, where as the sympathetic system is more stimulation and fight or flight.
Sympathetic dominance could result in mental illnesses such as anger, alcoholism(to calm down), agitated/insomniac depressions, GAD, panic, schizophrenia/psychosis, and OCD, as well as health problems like acne, diabetes, hypertension, heartburn, migraine, insomnia, restless legs, unusual pain sensitivity, and tinnitus. Those people would do better on a higher carb/lower protein diet and emphasizing magnesium, potassium, chromium, silicon, copper, iron, manganese, boron, B1, B2, niacin, B6, folic acid, vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin K, PABA, and 5-HTP/tryptaphan.
Parasympathetic dominance could result in such mental illnesses as alcoholism(to raise blood sugar), ADD/ADHD, social anxiety???, and anergic/atypical depression as well as health problems such as allergies, hypotension, colds/flu, diarrhea, drowsiness, eczema, chronic fatigue, gas, hypoglycemia, hives, hoarseness, nausea, osteoporosis, post nasal drip, sexual dysfunction, itchy skin, and warts. These people would do better on a higher protein/lower carb diet and emphasizing calcium, phosphorus, zinc, sodium, B5(pantothenic acid), niacinamide, B12, vitamin A, vitamin E, choline, inositol, N-acetyl-cysteine, bioflavonoids, and tyrosine/phenylalanine.
The mental illness association is purely my educated guess as sympathetic dominance is supposed to be more associated with dopamine hyperfunction/serotonin hypofunction and parasympathetic dominance is supposed to be more associated with serotonin hyperfunction/dopamine hypofunction. But as we all know mental illnesses are not that easily characterizable.
Many people are not on the extremes of autonomic nervous system function. Most are mixed types, combinations, or somewhere along the spectrum. An example: OCD as well as ADD. Therefore you may need to mix and match some of the supplements, and have a more balanced carb:protein ratio. The only way you're are going to figure it out over time is by doing the questionaires listed in the book and on the internet, and seeing how your body adapts to the different diet and supplementation recommendations.
I've got the diet pretty much ironed out myself but I'm still playing with the supplementation. I know that calcium gives me more energy and makes me feel better but exacerbates my acne so the increased acne is a price I'm willing to take until I can find a satisfactory solution. Actually my acne isn't that bad, but it is more noticable since I've been supplementing calcium again. I've pretty much beaten my hypoglycemia, and my energy is much better as well thanks to the recent change in supplementation. The supplements have helped negate a lot of the Parnate induced hypoglycemia that is supposed to happen the last 3 weeks I've been on it. I've also noticed dramatic improvements with increasing my protein, salt, magnesium, and niacinamide.
The theory behind the book is pretty straight forward but is hard to apply to oneself since everyone is biochemically different. Most likely you'll get it wrong when you first start and will have to play around with it. I was taking high dose calcium a couple years ago and really made myself worse off before I added some magnesium and lowered my calcium dosage. It's amazing how much diet and supplementation can have an effect on one's body.
There is also such variables as dominance in either oxidation rate or automomic nervous system, and acid/alkaline balance which I haven't quite figured out yet. I understand the theory behind it but am having trouble applying it to myself.
I'm sure this was way more information than you were looking for but I thought it would be a good idea to outline the theory with my own experience for anyone else that may be interested.
Brian
Posted by Optimist on March 7, 2005, at 11:22:09
In reply to Re: Metabolic Typing » gromit, posted by Optimist on March 7, 2005, at 11:05:46
Posted by gromit on March 7, 2005, at 12:49:59
In reply to Re: Metabolic Typing » gromit, posted by Optimist on March 7, 2005, at 11:05:46
This is the end of the thread.
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