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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by banga on February 7, 2005, at 12:17:22
In reply to alcohol and meds, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 11:41:31
I think you are playing with fire. I can understand completely about wanting to have a few drinks, esp in college, but it could end badly. With all the downers you are taking, everything is most likely going to get amplified. I am not an expert as to what amounts get dangerous, but just with the variety you are taking...pretty scary.
If you go ahead and do it anyway, at the very least in the beginning try and take just a little alcohol in a safe environment with one or two friends. But even if this ends ok, beware of differences in terms of full stomach vs empty, being tired/overworked, etc.
I never had sedating drugs with alcohol, it was SSRIs--a different effect. At first I thought there was no difference, but in retrospect I realized the drinking was more impulsive, and my actions during drinking became impulsive. I have heard others say they get really wild with this combo....
I am alive, but have so many unspeakably embarrassing incidents happen in front of a whole bunch of people that will haunt me to my grave....
Posted by celticmom on February 7, 2005, at 12:51:26
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by banga on February 7, 2005, at 12:17:22
banga - I can second your experience with SSRIs and drinking, not from a personal stand point, but as an observer. My DH was a weekend warrior. In college and beyond he could hold his alcohol very well. Then a few years ago, after starting Paxil, I immediately noticed a change in his behavior when he was drinking. He'd only have a few beers and already act plowed. Not only that, but he became a complete *ss.
I kept telling him that the Paxil and alcohol combo didn't seem to mix, but he refused to believe me. That is until he got a DUI coming home from a party. He NEVER drank and drove before then. He swore before he left he wouldn't have more than a couple of beers, etc.
So, CareBear, that is just on 1 SSRI and from someone who was building up a tolerance before you were born. Everyone is different, but word to the wise, you don't want to screw up your future just to have what you perceive as a good time now. That DUI caused a lot of problems for my DH for a while, including at work. The one good thing that came of it is he is no longer drinking.
Have you mentioned this to your pdoc? You could just ask if the occasional drink would hurt you and see what he says.
Posted by sjb on February 7, 2005, at 14:02:59
In reply to alcohol and meds, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 11:41:31
This is a timely thread for me. I'm not sure why, but I've been drinking an increasing amount since Dec. I have a hangover today and noticed that the bottle of tequila I was drinking is almost gone and I just bought it last Wed. I'm on 450mg of WellbutrinXL and 40mg of Prozac and I'm very active (usually.) I really want to talk to someone about it, but am scared. I haven't even told my T because things had been improving, it's like I don't want to let her down (plus, I was hoping she would suggest we could stop therapy after 2 years.) Anyway, I don't really have any friends I'm comfortable talking to and I cannot bring myself to confiding to my husband. (Yes, I can do all of this at home, with him there and he doesn't even know. I wait 'till he's in the other room to pour the drinks. Oh, I'm so ashamed and know it's not wise.)
Posted by banga on February 7, 2005, at 17:16:34
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by sjb on February 7, 2005, at 14:02:59
God! I am so glad you have written here. If only I had two years ago--opened up to ANYONE about it. I truly suspect SSRIs can worsen the pull towards alcohol. Please, try to find someone you can talk to. It is such a burden to carry all that alone. I was where you were about 5 years ago, I kept saying to myself "it's a problem, but I'll pull myself together" Well it never happened--I ended up going through 3 treatments, and probably in all seriousness have some physical damage, esp. combining it with meds. It is such a slippery slope, noone who hasn't been there could imagine how easy it is to keep falling. I was the last person people thought this could happen to....
Consider talking to your therapist, if that is the person you'd most likely open up to. Even if she lenghtens therapy, is it not worth it if you consider what could happen if you don't? You won't be letting her down, she will be happy you felt comfortable enough to say something. Please please believe me I thought I could deal with it myself, it just doesn't happen.
And the pain and guilt and shame and heaviness of holding it all yourself. It's horrid. I am not an AA buff by any means; but the good news is that a lot of people who go to AA are not the religious freaks I thought they would be. I went solely to them to find people who REALLY understand, and who can help me deal with the shame. I only went for a short time, to help with getting started and to not be alone.Really, really, please this is not a pat answer and i got so annoyed when people said "go to AA" as the only advice, or a similar silly line from an AA fanatic. I know what I am talking about. Please consider it if nothing else, just to not be alone.
Even when I did open up to some people around me, that little self-deprecating voice kept saying "yeah, but they don't REALLY know what a bad person you are." I don't go to AA now, I just went for a few months to get the support and help dealing with the shame, and I was on my way. The feeling I got there that I am not alone......that saved my life literally.
It is such a slippery slope...please stop it now by taking a breath and telling someone before it goes like what happened to me--a highly educated woman (in the mental health profession no less)with everything going for me, to a person on the verge of death. You get there quicker than you think. But just even think of the burden you have each day now....Just dont be alone anymore, please?
And I am so glad you said something here. I do understand.
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2005, at 17:55:32
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » sjb, posted by banga on February 7, 2005, at 17:16:34
Wow! I too, drank with SSRI's and then stopped when I was put on chloral hydrate. If you've read my Posts, after 8yrs I'm withdrawing, and it's the same as alchol. All I ever wanted was to be able to sleep! Stay away from alcohol. With all the "downers" you're taking it could certainly kill you in my opinion of course. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by banga on February 7, 2005, at 18:18:05
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2005, at 17:55:32
And you know what's really sad? It all started with drinking a bottle of beer to get to sleep and stop SSRI restless leg syndrome........
Posted by Fred23 on February 7, 2005, at 18:28:16
In reply to alcohol and meds, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 11:41:31
> and my other evening meds are usually as follows: xanax 1mg, klonopin 2mg,
Why does your doctor give you both? (What type of anxiety diagnoses are they for?)
A concern with Xanax is the strange synergy with alcohol that can cause a paradoxical effect, where you act stranger than on either. (Though in your case, the Klonopin is liable to put you to sleep faster than you can get out of character.)
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2005, at 18:39:27
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » CareBear04, posted by Fred23 on February 7, 2005, at 18:28:16
It sure turned me into what I call an addict! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:44:46
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » CareBear04, posted by Fred23 on February 7, 2005, at 18:28:16
to answer the last question, i get xanax and klonopin for panic disorder. i've taken klon or something at 2mg for bed for a long time, but the drs say that xanax and klon are best for panic.
as for the larger question-- thanks so much, guys, for your concern. this is defnitely a topic i want to discuss; not one that i see as strictly black andn white. i just haven't had the chance to read all the posts and respond.
and to the poster who also found this topic timely, keep posting, and i hope to talk to you soon!
Posted by just so sad on February 7, 2005, at 23:22:40
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » Fred23, posted by CareBear04 on February 7, 2005, at 19:44:46
To all of you previous posters - wow! I am drinking while I type this...a rye&7 as a 'night cap' to the wine I had at my friends house - don't worry - hubby drove. But it's wierd - I know I have a problem and feel more powerful when I'm fighting it, but when I don't feel up to the fight, I literally RUN to the dark side...like pjb my hubby doesn't realize how this controls me. I'm going to counselling, but I think it has actually given me a free pass to drink, as everyone tells me what a good job I'm doing to go for help etc. I do know it's a slippery slope, but how do you get your footing?? I haven't the strength to fight this most of the time...I was doing so much better last week.
Okay rambling - I'll say bye for now.
PS I'm on Effexor 150 mg 6 weeks
sad
Posted by sjb on February 8, 2005, at 7:36:26
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by just so sad on February 7, 2005, at 23:22:40
Thank you for your replies. I am going to talk to my therapist about it next week (I already had canceled my appt for this week, smart, yeah.)
I know I have to stop drinking, but for the poster who said I'm taking enough "downers" and may kill myself, aren't Wellbutrin and Prozac considered meds that tend to energize? My dx is atypical depression/OCD. I also have been binge eating like mad (oh yeah, have major problems in the food area, but that's another story. Of course, it's all inter-related, I'm sure.
I'm not making a rationale for my drinking to excess, but I do think some of cravings for alcohol in the evening was a desire to "unwind" from the extra nervousness and "keyed-up" feelings caused by the meds.
Anyway, I was so grateful there were replies to my post today and an understanding of the situation. As cliche as it sounds, it does help to know there are others who have had similar struggles and that I am not alone. As for AA, I don't know!
Posted by banga on February 8, 2005, at 8:05:25
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by sjb on February 8, 2005, at 7:36:26
For each person it seems to be a different thing that helps to stop. I think the common denominator is --not to go it alone. I also could not stop for a long while. The thing is, you often don't know what will work if you don't try it.....For me it was two things--a hug from soneone who REALLY understood (and I had gotten uncountable numbers, but somehow I felt this was different). And then another thing--and again, I always thought this was stupid when other people did this....though I modified it.
I started counting the days. For each day I did it, I put a marble in a glass vase. I mad it mean something--got through the day and eve without a drink. And the marbles started building up...and then, when I wanted to drink and though to myself ņoone will know, I won't drink tomorrow, I don't have anything to lose"I would think of my jar, and think--but if I drink I do lose something I was working on--I will lose my marbles!! I know it's goofy, and as I said I thought counting days would mean nothing to me....
so if what you are doing--going to the therapist not doing the trick, you HAVE to try SOMETHING else, keep trying things even if they seem hokey or stupid. I am usually and independent, stubborn person--and these qualities worked against me in this matter.
And sjb, I think that when someone mentioned taking downers and alcohol--probably they meant it for CareBear. But as I said, combining alcohol and any antidepressants can get wierd results, and you really have to wonder how well your brain cells hold up under onslaught of this combo....
Posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 10:15:51
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by celticmom on February 7, 2005, at 12:51:26
hi everyone,
sorry for starting this post and not following through. i'vebeen reading most of the posts and thinking about them.i don't think i have a drinking problem. i know i have the genes to become an alcoholic, but i don't drink emotionally and never alone. i also don't think i'm messing with meds and alcohol together because of unhappiness. i drink socially with friends. i drink wine at someone's home or at my own with my parents. i drink mixed drinks. that's about it. i usually cap it at two. i like to drink, and when i'm at, say, a wine party or a bar, it's no fun to abstain and especially to have to explain why.
you're right that i'm on heavy-duty sedatives that are dangerous to mix with alcohol. in particular, i worry about the benzos and the narcotic painkillers. i think the worst and most additive effects are the respiratory problems. the worst thing i can imagine is getting brain damage from lack of oxygen intake. i know i'm basing my actions on my luck so far. i'm mixed a couple of mgs of klonopin or xanax with some drinks and also 1 or 2 percocet, seroquel, or haldol, and even propranolol. still, these have been relatively small doses and only a few drinks. my instinct is that unless i do an overdose and drink much more alcohol, my body is strong enough to shake off the negative effects.
for the person who talked about the DUI, i want to say that i'm really careful about drinking and driving. i especially liked livingin the city where i could take public transportation everywhere. i may not be always kind tom y own body, but i would never want to hurt anyone else.
basically, i'll be on meds for the rest of my life, and i'm 21. i can't imagine abstaining from alcohol forever, and though i know intellectually that it's a bad idea to mix them, my experience with small amounts is that it's okay. i know it's not ok,but...
any input, please?sbj, i'm thinking of you and hope that you feel better and keep safe!
Posted by banga on February 8, 2005, at 10:41:55
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 10:15:51
Hi!
I didn't intend the remarks about alcoholism necessarily for you...nothing in your post suggested that to me. I understood you meant social drinking.
What i meant to say is--apart from potentially being dangerous taking downers with alcohol, if they do interact the consequences could be embarrassing--you don't expect it, and here you are in a public place out of control. Also if you get to that state, inhibitions may leave and you drink a few drinks more....
Just giving heads up that it may interact quite a bit, and it could vary--one time it is OK, the next it hits you like a brick.
My comments about alcohol becoming a habit were meant to help those who felt it may be starting to be problematic....
Posted by celticmom on February 8, 2005, at 10:51:14
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 10:15:51
Hey Carebear - I love wine myself, and can't imagine giving it up, so I can feel your pain. No one can make the decision for you. I'm the one who talked about a DUI, and I have to say, my DH was never one to drink and drive. He just lost ALL impulse control after one or two drinks.
I'm not saying that will happen to you. I think if you do chose to imbibe, you need to seriously listen to your friends and believe them if they tell you there is any indication that there is a problem.
I also think that because of the amount and types of medications you are on you really need to do your research on how the combination could affect your liver. Most of the meds you mentioned are metabolized through your liver, as is alcohol, that is something that you really should talk to your pdoc about. You shouldn't be ashamed or embarrased about it. It's a valid quesion. Just say, "hey, if I have the occasional glass or wine or two at a party, is it going to mess me up??". I'm sure he can remember what it was like to be in college. Most importantly, you need to make an informed decision.
My DH's pdoc actually told him that he would have no problem drinking on Paxil. Truthfully, many people probably don't. He just couldn't stop at one or two.
Another interesting note, I think beer caused a bigger impact on his behavior than wine. I noticed that he didn't seem to have the same issues when he drank a glass of wine or two (i.e. he could stop when he wanted). I have to wonder if the carbonation had something to do with it. Who knows?
Posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 11:10:00
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by celticmom on February 8, 2005, at 10:51:14
thanks everyone! i wasn't offended or didn't read meaning into the alcoholism comments. all your posts made me think. i've very grateful.
Posted by FredPotter on February 8, 2005, at 14:57:50
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by just so sad on February 7, 2005, at 23:22:40
Every evening I take one Antabuse tablet along with my other pills. I'm then released from any temptation to drink. It sounds lily-livered of me but it works and my periods of depression are now shorter and milder. Perhaps I should try without Antabuse, but I'd feel like a trapeze artist without a safety net. I found that there really are good feelings waiting for me a few days after giving up. I miss being able to "let my hair down" but find some mild comfort in a daily cup of Kava. All the best Fred
Posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 21:15:15
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » just so sad, posted by FredPotter on February 8, 2005, at 14:57:50
fred, i'm sad for you reading you post. i'm glad, though, that you seem to have a serious problem under control even though i'm sure antabuse is horrid stuff. besides alcohol, do you have other restrictions with the stuff? best wishes.
Posted by knicknack55 on February 9, 2005, at 9:20:23
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » FredPotter, posted by CareBear04 on February 8, 2005, at 21:15:15
wow, interesting discussion.
I've actually noticed that my 'self-control' when it comes to eating and drinking has gone downhill just in the 3 weeks since I started taking zoloft. I never usually eat junkfood, and I don't usually drink beer, but since I started I've become a junk food-aholic, drinking mountain dew everyday, and i'll have 2-3 beers at night. My boyfriend usually drinks one a night and sometimes I'll join him, so I'm not drinking alone, but it's still weird.It started because I was so jittery and hungry from the zoloft at the beginning. So I would eat whatever I felt like it (I deserved it, you know). I would get yawny in the afternoon, so I'd have a mountain dew. Then at night I had insomnia, so I'd have a beer or two.
I think after reading this thread it's time to stop thinking that I deserve it. *Grin* No more junk food, DEFINITELY no more mountain dew, and I don't need the beer, I have trazadone!
Posted by just so sad on February 9, 2005, at 12:05:31
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » just so sad, posted by FredPotter on February 8, 2005, at 14:57:50
Does the antabuse make you sick though? I tried something last year that was supposed to make you sick if you drank, but I took one pill (with no alcohol) and was in bed for two weeks with severe nausia and weakness - horrible experience.
Posted by sjb on February 9, 2005, at 14:30:01
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by banga on February 8, 2005, at 8:05:25
Banga,
Yeah, I was thinking today that it is incredible that I'm still alive. The increased cravings while on ADs is scary and even though I have a history of alcohol abuse, before taking ADs, certain ADs have definitely increased the desire. When I was on Effexor, I also was drinking heavily and I was on a very high dose along with Topomax. And I'm not talking more than a glass of wine, beer, etc. I was hitting the scotch VERY hard. Once, I went through the med-large bottle in 4 days.
Thanks for all the help, advice and support. I have to realize that I'm not good in moderation with most things, esp. alcohol. BTW- I haven't had a drink since Super Bowl Day, no big deal as it isn't even 3 days yet(!), but I don't feel like I can rationlize drinking in any way anymore. So thanks to all of you who have offered advice, support and understanding.
On another note, I'm noticing a marked increase in my desire for sweets. Will this get better over time?
On a third note, what do you think about telling your SOs? On the addiction thread someone recommended that spouses be told and I do NOT want to tell my husband. I know he'd be supportive, but I'm just too ashamed, embarrassed and I think he would be blown away that he didn't notice. Oh, I've wrote too much. Out.
Posted by banga on February 9, 2005, at 15:36:53
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by sjb on February 9, 2005, at 14:30:01
sjb-
I also forgot to mention that you did a very tough, brave thing in starting to talk about it here. It is so hard to say that without sounding trite--but truly, I didn't risk it and paid for it dearly by not getting the support I needed.
For my significant other, it was nothing new by the time I started talking about it. The most important thing is to find SOMEONE to talk to, at least to start.
I did forget to say--your therapist will also probably mention AA, don't get upset with her, this is what therapists are supposed to it say...they know has helped a lot of people, yet I think therapists sometimes forget that there are internal barriers to going to something like that and it's not for everyone. I know I had to get over a lot to finally go.
Of course it would be good to talk to your SO about it, but I also appreciate how immensely hard that is. There is no word to describe the magnitude of the shame. Try telling someone--your therapist?--about it, then see if you feel more like you could talk to your SO in the near future.
I know you know this but keep reminding yourself: it IS a disease, your brain is wired differently and reacts differently to alcohol. You brain thinks alcohol solves all of the imbalances, and wants more and more. It's not you, it's those darn cells in there!
also remember as it says here repeatedly, the ADs make the cravings worse....oh I hope you can talk to someone and not be alone.
Posted by just so sad on February 9, 2005, at 21:56:58
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by sjb on February 9, 2005, at 14:30:01
sjb,
My SO is in denial. I have been wondering for years if I had a problem, and when I got enough courage to admit this to my SO, he kind of dismissed the idea and told me it was okay to have a glass of wine at night. I have also found my friends are hard to convince that there is something going on between me and alcohol - a relationship that they don't have with it - but they too dismiss it. I find it curious as most addiction questionaires ask "have your friends or family indicated they think you have a problem" and my immediate thought is "no, I've had to try to convince them all". For me, my drinking has been self-medication for my depression. When I admitted the shame to my doc, she had some really good advice - she asked if I had diabetes, if I would deny it and deny medication, and of course I wouldn't - and she said it's no different with depression. So my goal is to deal with the depression, then deal with the drinking, if it's still an issue. Bottom line, tell your SO over and over, until he finally sees what you are trying to show/tell him. The other night when I wept into my hubby's arms because I had downed a bottle of wine in 2 hours (at 3 in the afternoon), he finally understood the embarassment, anger, frustration, and shame, I feel for the control the alcohol has over me...it is an instant relief, although short-lived. We have never been as close in 20 years of marriage. It was huge.
I wish you strength.
Sad
Posted by FredPotter on February 9, 2005, at 22:22:41
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds » sjb, posted by banga on February 9, 2005, at 15:36:53
Is it really a disease? I'm not sure of the true definition of disease. Malfunction that we have no control over? Those darn cells misfiring? I would argue that it isn't. When I nearly destroyed my life with alcohol, one of the most painful things was knowing I was doing it to myself
Posted by sjb on February 10, 2005, at 7:56:11
In reply to Re: alcohol and meds, posted by just so sad on February 7, 2005, at 23:22:40
banga and just so sad,
Thank you for your advice and just so sad, I hope you get a handle on your depression. Fred, I know there is dispute on whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I sure don't have an answer or even an inkling but for me, I know I must stop. There is also some folks who think "rational" recovery" is the answer, which I believe is drinking in moderation. My thought is, hey, if that works for folks, great, I just have to accept that all my previous attempts at drinking in moderation escalated very quickly. Whether that's a weakness on my part or a disease, I haven't a clue, but I feel I'm strong in other areas that moderate drinkers may not be, so I do not want to use my "lack of willpower" to add to my shame and guilt.
As for AA, I won't be upset if my therapist recomends it, I've already printed out a list of meetings in my area. Yeah, I know, it takes more than printing out a list and just saying, "Hmmm, well these times aren't great for me. . . .", but I never would have taken that step before. I know I have a problem now.
Best wishes to all and banga, I so admire your strength and abstinence and your willing to look at your past without excuses, denial, etc.
As for my husband, I appreciate the advice but am not willing to share with him at this time. I will confide in someone, however.
This is the end of the thread.
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