![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 10:55:52
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 9:12:49
> You admit he is acutely suffering from anxiety, yet you think if he want to a psychiatric hospital he would, what exactly? Find too much relief from his woes? You asked me what basis he has for seeking out a hospital. Yet you also aknowledge he is severely suffering inside.>Mr or Ms.Utopizen,
When did I ever admit he was suffering from anxiety? I said he had anxiety but I never said suffer.When did I say according to you "I ackowledge the fact he is severvely suffering inside"? I am not trying to start a fight between you and I.I was just saying that maybe you shouldve worded things differently.Just because someone does have anxiety,why should he seek refuge in a psych ward? You think that is the only way to handle anxiety? He never even said he couldnt function because of anxiety.That wasnt even his topic. He stated he is seeing someone and they would be the one qualified to make that call.He is on Klonopin,I didnt find him incoherent or long winded.To me he was seeking advice about medication between adderall and Dexedrine.I have had severe panic disorder,anxiety,depression...you name it I was labled it.I have dealt with vicodin,which is the worst thing to tell anybody.I thought I would do good and tell people my problem so if they were offered it for a toothache or whatever they would stay away from it but....I was labeled a drug addict behind my back.And yes I am on 60 mgs of Adderall Xr and 50 mgs of Dexedrine a day also...a total of 110 mgs.I have never had psychosis or any problems.I know a lot about all drugs,and Amp's get a bad reputation.They have been researched longer than penicillin and honestly crystal meth or meth amp aside,where are all the horrible side effects? Where is all the Adderall,Ritalin,and Dexedrine Psychosis cases in the ER'S or anywhere in general? Remember not meth amp.Why can you give these drugs to little kids and see no problems or deadly side effects? Compared to benzos and ssri's...the withdrawl syndromes and addiction of these were far worse to me than anything.> You're trying to paint me as the one who's not sympathetic to his anxiety, while also trying to convince me he couldn't use relief from his anxiety.>
I never said you werent sympathetic,I said you maybe have legitamate concerns but words are very powerful.Maybe you should have thought first before reacting.I never said or implied you were trying to convince him to get no relief.1st you said he was incoherent,brought up amp psychosis,implying he was in denial,said he should try to be admitted into a hospital.Now anyone with even a little anxiety is going to question themselves if someone states what you did.All he was asking was advice about medication.How was I trying to convince you he couldnt use relief?I was implying know the facts about geno before jumping the gun.
> You're the one who wants him to avoid relief, not me. I actually care about him.>
How can you say that about me? What did I do for you to merit such an accusation? You are impyling I want to see him suffer? That is very hurtful towards me.He is seeing a Doctor,who will suggest and make recommendations.I want to be here not to label him as this or that.I want to speak positively,tell people and recognize the struggles theyve survived.I dont want to write people off and say you have this disorder and need this and that.To me thats up to a physician.But I can tell people they can rise above the labels,they are roses that grow from concrete,too many tears too many wasted years,People arent burdens and they do hurt but if you keep tryin maybe things will change and tomorrow always comes after the dark....I have read genos posts since he was on a bunch of meds....at one point I believe...Zoloft,Desipramine,ritalin,klonopin and remeron.Also why is it you refer to me as "thug life"? Why the quotation marks around my name? What are you implying? Do you even know what my name stands for? I dont want to fight,I dont want to be negative,I dont want to assume imply or hurt anyone....Just take a look at your posts and then what I wrote...objectively.Please don't get defensive and just see what I am saying.I wont say anything bad about you...ever.If you get that impression let me know and I'll explain myself.
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 10:55:52
Excessive use of language in writing is often an indication that one is also likewise using an excessive use of language in their speech around others. This is why amphetamines post such a great risk of "social disability." They can have, especially in patients with anxiety, an effect that causes them great embarassment if they were to go off the drug and realize what an embarassment they may have made for themselves because they talked so much to others. Their friends won't like them, etc.
That's my concern for geno. If he's writing this way, who's to say he's not talking this way around his friends too? Or his doctors? Or in public? Remember the scene of the amphetamine-using mother in "Requiem for a Dream" while she had amphetamine psychosis on the train? Do you have any idea how much I don't want geno to appear in any way like that mother? I'm using words like "amphetamine psychosis" not to scare him, but to let him realize immediately what others (like his doctors) might think of him if he doesn't manage his stresses seriously.
And frankly, you're right, it's up to his doctor to admit him to a hospital or not. But I just told him my experience to say, hey, I've been there, and it was a positive form of relief for me. It was comforting for me.
A lot of weight was lifted off my shoulders. Responsibilities I had at school were relieved from me after I told my dean I was "hospitalized," because they took that word to understand the extend of pain I was in.
I'm sorry if you feel this way about what I said, but I just think the thing geno needs to think right now is that he needs to be feel comfortable about being open with his doctor on how he feels and being comfortable about the prospect of hospitalization should he seek it.
But I have to say, it's much better to do what I did, and not "let your doctor determine if you get hospitalized" and instead voluntarily admit yourself. That way, you're granted greater freedoms when you decide to leave.
Posted by paulbwell on September 30, 2004, at 11:35:38
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
> Excessive use of language in writing is often an indication that one is also likewise using an excessive use of language in their speech around others. This is why amphetamines post such a great risk of "social disability." They can have, especially in patients with anxiety, an effect that causes them great embarassment if they were to go off the drug and realize what an embarassment they may have made for themselves because they talked so much to others. Their friends won't like them, etc.
>
> That's my concern for geno. If he's writing this way, who's to say he's not talking this way around his friends too? Or his doctors? Or in public? Remember the scene of the amphetamine-using mother in "Requiem for a Dream" while she had amphetamine psychosis on the train? Do you have any idea how much I don't want geno to appear in any way like that mother? I'm using words like "amphetamine psychosis" not to scare him, but to let him realize immediately what others (like his doctors) might think of him if he doesn't manage his stresses seriously.
>
> And frankly, you're right, it's up to his doctor to admit him to a hospital or not. But I just told him my experience to say, hey, I've been there, and it was a positive form of relief for me. It was comforting for me.
>
> A lot of weight was lifted off my shoulders. Responsibilities I had at school were relieved from me after I told my dean I was "hospitalized," because they took that word to understand the extend of pain I was in.
>
> I'm sorry if you feel this way about what I said, but I just think the thing geno needs to think right now is that he needs to be feel comfortable about being open with his doctor on how he feels and being comfortable about the prospect of hospitalization should he seek it.
>
> But I have to say, it's much better to do what I did, and not "let your doctor determine if you get hospitalized" and instead voluntarily admit yourself. That way, you're granted greater freedoms when you decide to leave.Hey Uto,
I enjoy your posts, but answer me this,1. if you had Amphetamine Psychosis, how on earth did you get put on Desoxyn (methamphetamine) The most potent and notorious Amphetamine there is?
Cheers
Posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 13:21:06
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by paulbwell on September 30, 2004, at 11:35:38
> Hey Uto,
> I enjoy your posts, but answer me this,
>
> 1. if you had Amphetamine Psychosis, how on earth did you get put on Desoxyn (methamphetamine) The most potent and notorious Amphetamine there is?
>
> Cheerswell, I'm not sure if it was amphetamine psychosis, but because my ADD is so bad that when I meet with doctors I often look off suddenly to the distance, they suspect I am hearing "voices." I've never heard "voices" in my life.
what did happen was me being upset with my doc because I wanted an antipsychotic for my social anxiety on top of my klonopin and he wouldn't give me on, so I was so irritable I slammed the door. It was a doc located at an outpatient wing of the hospital, so I decided to check myself into the in-patient clinic because I was shocked I did such a thing.
But I did talk excessively at the time, and um, I don't know. Whatever it was, it was a negative reaction to the stimulants, which my psychiatrist at the hospital wrote down on my release paper. He just entertained the idea of amphetamine psychosis to me, but I refuted it with saying "amphetamine psychosis is clinically indistinguishable from schitzophrenia."
But a negative reaction to a stimulant is worthy of seeking help, in any case. I'm not psychotic on the stuff, it's just that it antagonized existing life cicrumstances (school, incompletes) that made me feel hopeless and depressed and anxious. I've cleared things up, and am recovering steadily from my depression, and in a couple of weeks will be going on Klonopin again.
To geno: I strongly advise talking with your doc about Klonopin. It's great to combine with stimulants to control your worries and helps you out while you're trying to find more relief from an antidepressant.
A lot of us, obviously, are obsessive over our mental illnesses. Klonopin helps us tremendously with letting us cope with things, and not trying to feveriously research on hopes that we'll find a "cure." No cure awaits you, but relief is possible.
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 21:40:12
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
> Excessive use of language in writing is often an indication that one is also likewise using an excessive use of language in their speech around others. This is why amphetamines post such a great risk of "social disability." They can have, especially in patients with anxiety, an effect that causes them great embarassment if they were to go off the drug and realize what an embarassment they may have made for themselves because they talked so much to others. Their friends won't like them, etc.>
Excessive use of language is a sign for a lot of disorders such as bi polar etc.It is also a sign that maybe a person has a lot to say and feels he can come to this board to learn and get support.If you have a lot to say why not make it long? Why keep it short? Maybe he cant type very well? I know I cant and get accused of misunderstandings,but truth is...I am a finger pecker.What if he had a lot to say in a short period of time? I know Myself and others in that position that write long,excessive,wrong spellings,left out words etc.Check your own posts,you left out words,had mis-spelled words and you kept it short.Now what if your under time constraints?
Dr.Michael Liebowitz and other doctors are realizing that a dopamine defeciency might be resposible for social anxiety.Once you take dex or add,you do become more social...Whats wrong with that? Why do you think talking to people would leave you with embarassment? Friends wouldn't like you anymore? That just doesnt occur on Ritalin or Add or Dex.If so I would like to see scientific proof.If you are delusional or whatever in your sayings its because of an underlying problem.This isnt alcohol,Ghb,Extacsy,Crack,Cocaine,Crystal Meth etc...where you have no idea of your actions.Dexedrine and adderall are sch 2.If its so addicting and gets you high,why isnt there a market for it like the drugs I mentioned? Ask the normal person or addict about dexedrine spanules and they will say...what's that?
> That's my concern for geno. If he's writing this way, who's to say he's not talking this way around his friends too? Or his doctors? Or in public? Remember the scene of the amphetamine-using mother in "Requiem for a Dream" while she had amphetamine psychosis on the train? Do you have any idea how much I don't want geno to appear in any way like that mother? I'm using words like "amphetamine psychosis" not to scare him, but to let him realize immediately what others (like his doctors) might think of him if he doesn't manage his stresses seriously.>1st comparing life to a movie is unjust.I could say watch One flew over the cuckoos nest,Girl Interrupted etc.all movie that show negative things about mental institutions.Once again,what was wrong with his writings to warrant such comments.Specifically,if you could show them I would like to see.Was it a long post? who cares..I do thats why i read it.Was it fragmented a little? maybe...did he get his point across to me? Yes
Also where are the cases of amp psychosis? Ritalin,adderall and dexedrine not crystal meth.The med has been around since 1937,there should be tons of legitimate studies to show this.> And frankly, you're right, it's up to his doctor to admit him to a hospital or not. But I just told him my experience to say, hey, I've been there, and it was a positive form of relief for me. It was comforting for me.
A lot of weight was lifted off my shoulders. Responsibilities I had at school were relieved from me after I told my dean I was "hospitalized," because they took that word to understand the extend of pain I was in.>You clearly were not like this because of Dex,add or ritalin usage.To hear the words pain,responsibilities you had,weight of your shoulders makes me think you were misdiagnosed or given the wrong information about what you were going through.
> I'm sorry if you feel this way about what I said, but I just think the thing geno needs to think right now is that he needs to be feel comfortable about being open with his doctor on how he feels and being comfortable about the prospect of hospitalization should he seek it.
But I have to say, it's much better to do what I did, and not "let your doctor determine if you get hospitalized" and instead voluntarily admit yourself. That way, you're granted greater freedoms when you decide to leave.>
On what grounds would you admit him for? Seriously....he goes to the front desk and says....I write long posts? If he understands his opiate problem and is taking steps to better himself,why go to a hospital? I've been there and i saw people with schizophrenia,bi polar,major major depression,crying screaming,people licking themselves,one lady rolling around on the floor,One lady told me she was satan,people leaving when the orator was speaking...You are locked in and if you dont follow their rules exactly...you are labeled as "out of control"
I was subjected to this because I had panic attacks.I believe and several other physicians believe this was totally inapporiate for me.A hospital should be treated when you can't function in society.For instance if you have the flu,break your leg etc.your never admitted unless you are not capable of functioning.To me,Geno has posted for years,he can function.I see ya in the other post
Posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 23:21:50
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 13:21:06
> well, I'm not sure if it was amphetamine psychosis, but because my ADD is so bad that when I meet with doctors I often look off suddenly to the distance, they suspect I am hearing "voices." I've never heard "voices" in my life.>Now,look at these words.It shows you that Doctors are gods.If you werent hearing voices but they said you were...how would anyone react? You would be furious because you dont hear voices yet they keep saying you do.So...you get a little angry next thing you know you are labeled with"out of control" blah,blah,blah tendencies.Trust me....Doctors by far do not care about you.Once you are out of sight you are out of mind.Look at how they live,make tons of money,they are prescription writers,follow a nonsense pdr,DSM whatever its up to now,there is a lot of corruption and wrong doings...trust me.Look at the whole picture and you'll see the truth.Start with the Zypexa cup on his desk then go to the NIMH...there are a lot more things,institutes but start thinking there.Ativan was used as a possible weapon in war,the CIA funded the grateful dead and was given LSD to see the effects and if could be used in war.Check into it,you will see how much the government brainwashes us.
> what did happen was me being upset with my doc because I wanted an antipsychotic for my social anxiety on top of my klonopin and he wouldn't give me on, so I was so irritable I slammed the door. It was a doc located at an outpatient wing of the hospital, so I decided to check myself into the in-patient clinic because I was shocked I did such a thing.<Why would you want an anti-psy for social anxiety?
They cause dysphoria and will leave you sleeping all the time.I was on Seroquel,Zyprexa and our possibly the worst meds I have ever tried.The last thing someone with social anxiety is a dopamine blocker.Studies show in rats show increasing dopamine they become the leaders,doers,and are most competent in their group.
> But I did talk excessively at the time, and um, I don't know. Whatever it was, it was a negative reaction to the stimulants, which my psychiatrist at the hospital wrote down on my release paper. He just entertained the idea of amphetamine psychosis to me, but I refuted it with saying "amphetamine psychosis is clinically indistinguishable from schitzophrenia."<Was it the amp or a manic episode?
> But a negative reaction to a stimulant is worthy of seeking help, in any case. I'm not psychotic on the stuff, it's just that it antagonized existing life cicrumstances (school, incompletes) that made me feel hopeless and depressed and anxious. I've cleared things up, and am recovering steadily from my depression, and in a couple of weeks will be going on Klonopin again.<You want to go on a benzo? Try stopping Klonopin in 6 months cold turkey,see what happens.There our tons of debates on its abuse and addiction.It also can leave you depressed and numb.Valium,Xanax,Klonopin all leave you addicted.How would your friends feel when klonopin wears off and you are freaking out because of overwhelming anxiety? Just as you said in the other post about stimulants.There are tons of horror stories of benzos.
> To geno: I strongly advise talking with your doc about Klonopin. It's great to combine with stimulants to control your worries and helps you out while you're trying to find more relief from an antidepressant.<
> A lot of us, obviously, are obsessive over our mental illnesses. Klonopin helps us tremendously with letting us cope with things, and not trying to feveriously research on hopes that we'll find a "cure." No cure awaits you, but relief is possible.<
Do you see how Klonopin can be addicting? You are relying on it to feel better.
Drugs of abuse...
1)take them to feel good(how many people resort to 1 or 2 xanax or klonopin under a little stess)
2)you crave the drug(try stopping a benzo cold turkey)
3)there is a large and ready market(there are millions of websites offering benzos)drugs of non-abuse...
1)feel nothing(give someone adderall,they wont be feeling high and trying to escape reality)
2)forget to take the medication(this happens all the time,ask any high school kid)
3)no demand on the street(ask a drug dealer if they have any dex or adderall)What is wrong with finding a cure? Why put limits on mental abilities? Why not research? Knowledge is power.How do Doctors become doctors? Research!!! You have to know as much as you can.Stand 4 nothing and your bound to fall 4 anything.Trust me on this one....Fear is stronger than love.No matter how much you say you love something when put to the test and your inner most insecurites are brought about,you will act out of fear.Look at 911...all the love for our country meant nothing to the people on the planes.The fear on getting stabbed by a box cutter won.We need to start loving ourselves and trusting ourselves and not being afraid to learn and even become smarter that these doctors.The only problem with research is listening to opinions and not seeing the facts.
In my opinion,Utopizen you are a nice person.But don't be afraid to think you can get rid of any disorder because a doctor said so.Dont be afraid to get rid of your problems.I know a lot of people hear they have a disorder and become it,then live with it...then they fall back on that crutch for acting a certain way,they always have a reason for their actions.Im not saying this is you but im being real.Alot of people out there fear change,they become content.People don't like the truth,they want to be told what to think,they dont want to look in the mirror.Based upon what I know...I wouldve said you were leaning to bi-polar or borderline personality.Look how you changed all my words around in my first post? Look how easy you were to say I didnt care and was trying to make you look bad.Having school problems,irritability,being defensive,not seeing the middle ground,possible psychotic episodes? I am not being mean.I am not trying to put you down.I am just wondering if you have had the right treatment.Have you checked into borderline personality? I do know about your disorder,it is a development disorder(PDD)But I don't know enough about you to see that.I am going by your responses to my posts.I know you probably cant see it but I like you.Why? I feel your passion.I know as a kid,through your fighting and hurting you probably ran in your room crying thinking you were a burden and no one was there with their arms open wide saying everythings going to be alright...with unconditional love.I could be wrong but I'm here for anyone regardless.Btw you wrote my name"thug life" and no one elses.This is what it meansTHE
HATE
U
GAVELITTLE
INFANTS
F@#KS
EVERBODYMeaning to avoid all these problems we need to start treating our youth better.Alot of problems come from your family and environment.In the end it F**ks everybody because look how much suffering is in this world mentally that couldve been avoided if your childhood was different...think about it.
I mentioned a rose from the concrete.Thats what we all are.Check this out....
Did You Hear about the rose that grew from the crack in the concrete.
Proving nature's laws wrong it learned to walk without having feet
Funny it seems but by keeping its dreams
it learned to breathe fresh air
Long live that rose that grew from the concrete
when no one else caredI'll switch it up...
Did you Hear about Utopizen that had a mental illness?
Proving everybody wrong,Utopizen learned to survive without knowing the ways
Funny it seems but by keeping the hopes and dreams alive
Utopizen learned to feel good again and stay positive and survive
Long live Utopizen who overcame the odds
When no one else caredThis questions what is beautiful.In a rosebush taking care of,people will stop,smell it,adore it...think its beautiful.But if they saw a rose growing from the concrete a little dirty,a petal missing they wouldn't give it a second look.It's tainted and dirty.But when you look further you see a miracle that people will walk right over.
1)They dont see how something as beautiful as a rose grew from such a non giving place(concrete)
2)They dont see the how the rose could actually thrive and survive this long under horrible conditions.
3)And what is beauty...the rose for living under harsh conditions? Or the concrete for being a non giving environment yet it gave the world a beautiful rose? They are both beautiful and miracles just like everyone on this board.No one knows the struggles they only see the troubles not knowing its hard to carry on when no one loves you,they have never witnessed the problems we survived.So enough of me.....now this is a long post lol!!!Geno,
I'll address you later and try and help.Thug Angel
Posted by linkadge on October 1, 2004, at 22:11:15
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen last time, posted by thug life on September 30, 2004, at 23:21:50
The origninal message was excessivly long. It does sound that the writer does have a problem with drugs/meds that needs to be addressed immediately.
Amphetamine psychosis is a continuom in my mind.
I think the issue is really about control.
If a drug restores ballence and helps a user gain a normal control over his life then it is good. If the focus changes from life to the drugs, then there is a problem.Linkadge
Posted by geno on October 3, 2004, at 5:35:36
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 30, 2004, at 11:23:44
To mr Utopizen,
Hey, i just have few questions for you. Are you some kind of psychic, you like read mind and dont even know one bit about the person who you are speaking of?Second, are you a Pyschiatrist, better yet, an expert in ADD/ADHA, or even have a some kind of specialization in the medical field.
Third, is people like you seem to somehow irritate me in a sence. Instead of saying, ok geno, you may have a problem, i would run it by your doctor, you inflame the problem, more so, making me look a bit foolish. Yet so, behind a computer screen. Now my next statement will be the last,and i have to say it should not disrespect dr bob or the board, But if you were to let say visibly interact with me, i dont think your working or shall i say your wording would be in a better tone.
When i post on this board, even if "my dose is to high, or im looking for somekind of positive advise, because this board is very professional in my perspective. To say Im suffering for amphetamine pscychosis, well, I think you better do a bit more research before posting, maybe going to a different board, like health boards.
If something i say, is a bit drastic, or getting out of hand, like i said, dont ridicule me, and go on and on , to spark others to team up with you. In my opinon, you may have some kind of issue, which because i dont know you, i would not or cannot say, but i must have an anxiety disorder, with amphetamien psychosis, so when i see my doctor in 4 days, ill be sure to have him set me up with the closest psych hospital. Ill be sure inform you if and how i make out.Besides that, I dont expect to hear you post in reference to my name, or a complaint may be filed with DR. BOB.
Thank you
geno
Posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:16:26
In reply to My views - short, posted by linkadge on October 1, 2004, at 22:11:15
I don't have amphetamine psychosis. But I take Ritalin and when I take enough of it to actually help a lot it makes me obnoxious. No one including me can stand to be around me. I talk a talk incessantly or write. But mostly talk about anything and nothing. Bounce off walls.
Unfortunately stimulant type meds are one of a few in the arsenal of meds that provides any help. The Ritalin is not helping my focus or concentration much at all though. I cannot take adderal I am sure. I have tried dex and a few others and I cannot take them because of a bladder disease. It is embarrassing to talk so much so I hardly take the Ritalin anymore. My family tells me how they can talk to me now. But I am more depressed and have a difficult time getting out of bed etc.
I was thinking of trying Strattera, which gets me to why I posted.
Any suggestions? Something that will be stimulating increase motivation, focus, drive, concentration. The magic bullet:)
Irene
Posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:33:38
In reply to Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
Geno,
My two cents.
First I think what utopizen posted was inappropriate and uninformed. He or we do not know you or much about you. If I felt the way he did and had concerns I would have asked a lot of questions to try and ascertain if I was barking up the right tree.
I tend to have a difficult time keeping on subject and am long winded.
I also su** at typing. Especially if I am in an exited mood, as you seemed to be when you typed your post, and type faster than I am really able to. (I could be wrong just an initial observation)
Here is what I always do when I post:
1. After I write my post I reread it and usually find a lot of stuff that is just off topic and can easily be deleted without changing the actual content or meaning, making the post much shorter.
2. Next I copy the entire post and paste it into word and do a spell check.
Now even if my post or email is a bit long it is concise and easy to read.
It is all a bit time consuming but it makes me feel better about myself and how I come across.
Your post looked like most of mine do before I go through this process.
I hope this helps.Irene
Posted by KayeBaby on October 3, 2004, at 21:36:12
In reply to Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on September 29, 2004, at 17:33:07
Hey Geno!
I can relate to your frustration with stimulants.Adderral XR did nothing for me at 60mgs. I could not see any effects at all. Like it was a placebo! I gave it a month and my Dr. was like Wow! Your neurology is unique! But seriously I had even put on a noticable several lbs that month so it was obvious that I wasn't joking around about it or abusing.
I take Dex. spansules combined with a small amount of (5mg tabs) od Dex. instant release. My dosage is 30 mg spansules and 5-10mg instant dex. as needed per day. 40mg total.
My chemistry reqires a jump start in them morning. The Dex spansules are great for focus but are not activating for me. I have found that 10 mg instant dex+15mg spansules in the morning works well. Another 15mg in the afternoon and I am covered well enough. No trouble sleeping or anything. However it may interest you to know that I can take as much as 100mgs+ (not at one time!)over the course of a day and it does not make me freaked out at all. Very productive of course but not really hyper acting.
Here is what I have discovered. Once you find the correct dosage, exceeding it does not make that much of a difference in the way I feel and it there simply is no reason for me to take more that what I need.You sound like you need a more physically activating stimulant. I am 36 yrs old and while I have my issues, I am sane and responsible-own my own small business and am a good mama to my kiddo. I could eat those Adderall by the handful and they simply do not do ANYTHING to me-good, bad or otherwise. I am not an abuser, my dearest desire is just to be able to navigate this life with a bit less frustration. My best "high" is when I feel functional and effective in my day to day duties.
An idea may be to try adding a small amount of dexidrine to what you are being prescrbed rather than completely switching. Also, I have found L-Tyrosine to help with stimulant tolerance. Acetyl-l-carnitine is helpful too.
For me finally knowing that how I feel now is not how you will always feel and that I will figure this problem out and move on at some point has earned me some peace. Geno, you will have happy times where you feel in control again.
I can't promise you this, I guess, but I know it just the same-you will feel better, be happy and find exactly what you need.Patience is truly a virtue I have little of. I will never be patient-instead I remind myself that there will be better days ahead and what I cannot change at the very moment I will accept because it is the only way to ease my pain till the solution is found.
Very good people can go through very dark times. You will find a way. You really will.
My thoughts are with you.
Kaye
Posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 15:12:16
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by KayeBaby on October 3, 2004, at 21:36:12
Kaye, I just started Adderall XR a couple days ago and was wondering about the differences between it and Dexedrine primarily.
I find the Adderall XR tends to wane at around 5 to 6 hours. I feel that taking an extra pill around that time would be appropriate since I would prefer around 10-12 hours of functionality.
The price is also a major issue at the moment. Here in Canada a single pill of Adderall XR is around $3.50. Is the Dexedrine (longer lasting one) any cheaper where you are? I'd imagine the costs relative to one another would be similar where ever they are sold.
I don't have benefits at the moment and have to pay out of my own pocket so I'm looking for more cost effective solutions at this point.
Regarding the Adderall at the moment though. I seem to be enjoying it thus far. I don't seem to need much. I've been taking 10mg in the morning so far am considering dropping it down to 5 tomorrow to see what it's like. I originally started with 20mg and it was way too stimulating.
I'm been taking the Adderall with club soda on an empty stomach. The alkaline solution is supposed to increase the absorbtion. The reason I did this was because I thought I'd have to be taking a lot more than I currently am. I'm a big guy, 225 lbs. and generally not very sensitive to caffeine or ephedrine. I thought I would try a little more at the beginning to figure out my therapeutic dosage as quickly as possible. Since every size pill generally costs the same, I didn't want to be using multiple 5mg pills and spend too much money at the beginning.
I had also heard about some 60 lbs kids needing 30mg a day, and some adults around 80mg so I guessed that I would require more.
My main problem as been been energic depression, and am currently using the Adderall for improved energy, motivation, and focus. I'm also taking 300mg of wellbutrin a day.
If anyone else has anything to offer I would appreciate it as well. Thanks.
Posted by theo on October 4, 2004, at 16:32:37
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » KayeBaby, posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 15:12:16
My doc was thinking about addin Adderall XR or Concerta for energy, focus problems.
Is Adderall XR pretty smooth? Have you ever tried Concerta?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 5, 2004, at 3:23:28
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » geno, posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:33:38
> people like you seem to somehow irritate me in a sence... you inflame the problem
>
> geno> I think what utopizen posted was inappropriate and uninformed.
>
> IreneThanks for trying to work this out, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 9:26:30
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » Optimist, posted by theo on October 4, 2004, at 16:32:37
> My doc was thinking about addin Adderall XR or Concerta for energy, focus problems.
>
> Is Adderall XR pretty smooth? Have you ever tried Concerta?I find it generally pretty smooth, although I don't have much to compare it to. The only stimulants I've taken are caffeine, ephedrine, and now adderall, and cocaine once but I'd never take that again anyways. The adderall is definitely more smooth than the ephedrine. I'm not a big fan of ephedrine personally. I can't focus on it.
I have not tried Concerta. I might suggest to my pdoc next time to try dexedrine though if it is cheaper. We'll see. I find the stimulating qualities of adderall overall better than caffeine, most notably from the longer half life. It seems to offer more motivation it seems as well, and perhaps better focus too.
The Adderall doesn't seem to make me anxious either, although I haven't had too much of a problem with that in the past. A little social anxiety I've had but nothing too debilitating. If anything the Adderall may make me more socially adept. I'm still feeling it out though. I haven't been out in public much while on it in the last few days. I definitely feel more chatty, and perhaps more social confidence as well. We'll see.
Posted by utopizen on October 5, 2004, at 10:32:47
In reply to Re: Amphetamine Psychosis: utopizen, posted by geno on October 3, 2004, at 5:35:36
I don't understand why anyone would act like going to a psych hospital is a negative thing to do. I found it quiet positive. And yes, I do have an issue. If I didn't, or if you didn't, would we be here? I hope not! =)
take care, I don't think you're as bad as you think I do.We just need help sometimes, and it doesn't matter what "diagnosis" I think you have-- what's matter is that you find relief, and I don't care how you get it-- I just want you to feel you found it when and however you do get it =)
Posted by utopizen on October 5, 2004, at 10:35:42
In reply to Re: My views - short » linkadge, posted by iris2 on October 3, 2004, at 14:16:26
> I don't have amphetamine psychosis. But I take Ritalin and when I take enough of it to actually help a lot it makes me obnoxious. No one including me can stand to be around me. I talk a talk incessantly or write. But mostly talk about anything and nothing. Bounce off walls.
adding an antidepressant to whatever stimulant can help a lot. Straterra isn't a bad idea. um, how did you get diagnosed w/ the bladder disease? 'cause if I take adderall 60mg/day now, I uh, wake up with um, having released some water overnight... keeping my dose to 40mg seems to help.
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:24:51
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » KayeBaby, posted by Optimist on October 4, 2004, at 15:12:16
I take Ritalin and it helps some. I do not think I would be able to take Adderal but do you think it would help more with the focuc,concentaration ,motivation. The ritalin only seems to get me out of bed and not a whole lot more. Except to malke me talk insessantly. Perhaps Strattera?
What do people think I should try. I migh try stuff I probably cannot tolerate just to see.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:34:49
In reply to Re: My views - short, posted by utopizen on October 5, 2004, at 10:35:42
My bladder disease i sinterstitial systitis. I started having frequency and urgency. I ws going upwards of 40 times a day and could not sleap through it. Now later in the disease I have a lot of pain when it flares up. After measuring and taking the times I went the dotor first made sure I did not have a bacterial infection and then he did a bladder biopsy. None of it was fun. I think they have better ways to diagnos this particular disease now.
irene
Posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 16:03:58
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 12:24:51
> I take Ritalin and it helps some. I do not think I would be able to take Adderal but do you think it would help more with the focuc,concentaration ,motivation. The ritalin only seems to get me out of bed and not a whole lot more. Except to malke me talk insessantly. Perhaps Strattera?
>
> What do people think I should try. I migh try stuff I probably cannot tolerate just to see.
>
> ireneI don't have too much to offer as I don't have any experience or knowledge with regard to those meds (Ritalin, Strattera).
I'm curious why you think Ritalin wouldn't bother you but Adderall would? Have you experimented with it before or have you heard that it is bad for your condition?
It may be likely that Adderall may have more to offer with respect to energy, motivation, and focus. Adderall seems to be the most popular out of all the stim. ADD drugs. Of course people react differently to different meds so you basically have to figure it out through experimentation.
Posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 20:25:01
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » iris2, posted by Optimist on October 5, 2004, at 16:03:58
> I'm curious why you think Ritalin wouldn't bother you but Adderall would? Have you experimented with it before or have you heard that it is bad for your condition?
>
> It may be likely that Adderall may have more to offer with respect to energy, motivation, and focus. Adderall seems to be the most popular out of all the stim. ADD drugs. Of course people react differently to different meds so you basically have to figure it out through experimentation.I have tried several other stimulants besides Ritalin and was unable to take them at all because they all caused a lot of side effects because of a bladder disease I have. In fact I think Adderal has dex in it which I have tried. The likelyhood of a mix of three different stimulants being okay in my body is about nill. My pdoc still cannot figure out why I am able to tolerate Ritalin. AndrewB seemed to know but I never quite understood it all. I thought my best bet would be Strattera. Even that I will probably not be able to take but at least I have a fighting chance going it. I want to take something besides Ritalin because it really is not the best mood elevator or at concentration , focus and motivation. Basically it gets me out of bed and gives me a little energy. On the really down side it makes me a motormouth sometimes.
Thanks,irene
Posted by geno on October 6, 2004, at 3:21:57
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin » Optimist, posted by iris2 on October 5, 2004, at 20:25:01
Uztopian, I understand, and if i said something that may upset you , i apologize and your correct, that we all have mental issues, and I understand, but i have a pretty severe case of ADD, type 2 and Type5, more soe a combonation of both, but i believe i type 5 lists hyperactivity, which i dont have.
For 5 yrs, plus another 5 years on top of that, of abusing alcohol, GHB, and Oxys, which all interact with the brain chemical dopamine, moresoe the nucleus acumbens, oh, also i guess i could say, for some unknown reason why, I used to take ephedrine for 5 yrs straight. I must have no idea why i took it, because i personally think its the worst stimulant to take, due to the extreme anxiety and actually makes your add 10x worse. But at the time, i new nothing about the mental aspects or chemical breakdown. I often wondered why i would always be shaking , and axious, semi- parinoid and would have to drink alot of beer to calm me.
But I know that this forum is not substance abuse, but my point is, ADD, and what goes along with such. Im no psycho-nut or know it all, yet there are people on this board who post that seem to be like psychiatrist or pharmacologist, due to the great information they post. THis is why i like this board so much. Plus, you dont have the verbal abuse and such as other boards, esp. addiction boards. God help you if you are an addict or abused opiates, and now your take adderall, then you must get 5 posts saying you are just an addict and abusing another drug.
Well, Even though im not a doctor, I know enough to say that Psychostimulants are and can be abused. Yet can help one with add or ADHD very very much.
Yes, my post are long and i will sum this up and try to post smaller ones, but Iv been through 4 rehabs and psychiatrists, Psychologists, specialist, NA/AA, and was sober, for 1 yr of every drug, except zoloft. ANd still did not function well.
TO end this post, My opnion is and is ONLY my opinon, that taking nutritional supplements with medication can be extra benificial. WHY? Because , some of the natural supps, counteract neurotoxciity of drugs, Heal brain cells and nerve cells, Boost all N.T. Naturally. But when someone suffers severe mental disorder like ADD, Depression, Panic, Kava Kava,5htp or St.Johns work or amino acids are not going to be potent enough. But, it may help one "counteract the side effects in the long run, or better yet, help the drug work better, thus allowing one to lower there drug dosage. IM going to post on the natural forum now, and i have some good information.THank you
Geno
Posted by thug life on October 6, 2004, at 8:38:37
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on October 6, 2004, at 3:21:57
Geno,
Since I'm pressed for time I am going to list my experiences and opinions and maybe we can each help each other from there.I wanted to address you more specific but if we brainstorm maybe we can help others as well! I remember 3beers and he really did bring up a lot of good stuff.
1st you seem well versed in the actions and mechanisms of medications which is awesome.IMO unless you have severe panic and anxiety people owe it to themselves to take a proactive role in their own rehabilitation.The reason to take a back seat sometimes with research and forums IMO w/anxiety/panic is you can make your condtion worse and start thinking you have every disorder out there and for every medication....there is horror stories,you might end up reading Peter Breggin and feel terrified.But anyways....I have been on at least one med for every class used in psychiatry.I have been diagnosed primarily with panic disorder but with my panic like a lot of us came...depression,social anxiety,Obsessive thoughts,agoraphobia etc.I also later realized I had ADD and since that is the topic I will stick with that.
My quick philosiphy...
When I first read a quote by Neal Seidman.It was something to the extent of instead of thinking what happens to us mentally as being "defective" and feeling the need to be in control....I had to change the way I viewed my "mental Illness"....Instead of trying to get rid of it I realized it's a part of me and it's there for a reason and it's o.k.,I was o.k. and I was me....not some label.I am not trying to slight anyone and hopefully people can kind of get an idea of what I mean.I realize the pain that people go through and I'm not trying to say these disorders arent severe and deibilitating.But for me,It is a part of me,just like anger ,sadness,sexual feelings,joy...I can't control those emotions completely so I let go of the idea I was defective and I was perfect and going through stuff because thats just what a higher power had intened for me I guess.I had to unconditionally love myself.Saying I had to be this way or that way for society put conditions on that love which kept my symptoms full force.But just by keeping it real and realizing I do have these problems,it does hurt but just by bringing awareness to myself led to the 2nd key to life:adaptability.I was able to understand,learn and make myself start to feel life again...free of labels,even though suffering came with it,acceptance lessened it.I think Buddha said suffering comes from wanting things we dont need.I started realizing I didnt "need" a cure.I also think it was Gandhi who said become the changes you want to see.This made me realize that instead of waiting for things just to go away,I had to take a active role in being content.But that is my quick philosiphy and I don't mean to make anyone feel as if it an easy thing and disorders are "easy" Uztopizen was correct about possible hospitialization in cases...but for me this is what helped spark the positive force in my life.We are not freaks and the stigma a lot of society puts on us.We all have a bright star inside of us,and when you eventually find it....it so bright everyone will be blinded.....Medication:
Medication works on different cell receptors in your brain as with all psych meds they either:
1)enhance the release of the chemical into the space between cells,the synapse 2)block the effects in the chemical on the receiving receptor 3)be brought back into the the same cell it was released AKA "reuptake"4)Or it can be metabolized,or broken into smaller pieces,carried away in the blood or excreted through the urine 5)they act like the chemical and stimulate the receivng receptor
This was very quick and a rough guide...It's sorta like an air hokey match lol. #1)would be amphetamine's
#2)Anti-psychotics,beta blockers
#3)Ritalin,SSri's Tca's
#4)Maoi's
#5)benzo'sIf someone can add to it and make it easier to understand please feel free or if someone would like further explanation I could try and do it.
Now as we are talking about ADD meds and stimulating meds....
Ritalin does a whole different action than amp's.Amp's cause the release of NE,SE and DA.I believe (I could be wrong)it causes the realease of NE(norepinephrine) more potently than DA(dopamine)and is least effective on SE(Serototnin)But after all is said and done it works DA.Ritalin is basically an SSRI but for Dopamine.It is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.That is why it has a different feel because it doesnt realease as amp's do but reuptake's
Caffeine acts as an antagonist at adenosine receptors+
Ephedrine is a weal agonist at the beta adrenoceptors.Same with Clenbuterol.It weird these drugs are anti asthmatic drugs.
Both of these drugs are horrible and tax the CNS too much which is why strokes and other things have happened.
Quick guide(dont know if things have changed):
concerta 18,27,36,54 mgs lasts 12 hours
adderall xr 5,10,15,20,25,30mg lasts 12 hours
Ritalin La 20,30,40 mgs lasts 8 hours
Metadate cd 20mg lasts 8 hours
Dexedrine sr 5,10,15mglasts 8 hours
methylin er 10,20mg lasts 6-8 hours
adderall ir ( alot) tabs are suppossed to last longer as strength increases 4-8hrs all below
dexedrine 5mg
dextrostat 5,10 mg
detroamp(generic)not sure of doses
methylin 5,10,20
ritalin 5 ,10 ,20
focalin 2.5,5,10mg
metadate ir 10,20mg-Modafinil was pretty much useless to me at high doses and the cost is very high.Its good Adderall and Dexedrine Sr come in generic and its not a big difference like ritalin.
-I personally do not like Ritalin because it is to unpredictable.I Get the dysphoric feeling.-I never noticed a difference in the l-isomer or d-isomer
-Desoxyn was horrible,very bad crashes.
-I currently take Adderall Ir the use the Dex Sr.I like the idea of using the fast acting agent to get into your system then let the long term agent finish your day.Timing is the key.Personally,I set the alarm an hour before I wake,take a pill,go back to bed,wake up with it kicking in.
-To me Dex SR generic vs name brand there is no difference.It is not the feeling of immediate release but it keeps things level.
-I think you would like Dex spanules if self pay get the generic the price diff is crazy!!!
-Dont drink or consume Vitamin C IT cancels out alot of the amps work.Some people complain in the morning they dont feel anything and its cause they down O.J. and wipes out the effects.I actually use orange juice at night and I swear it works like a charm.It makes me sleepy because it cancels out the dex or adderall.
-There is no evidence that weight to milligram ratio has any validity.They mostly did that because kids were involved in alot of studies.
My weight is 250 lbs.
dosage:30 mgs adderall
75 mgs DexedrineMy Doctor is great and is on the forefront of ADD studies.Most people cant believe my doseage,I actually was taking 150 mgs.but came down.He is willing to fine tune me.
It sounds like you read Dr.Amen's books,If not thats always a good place to start.You can go to www.addwherehouse.com for books
Heres some recommendations for adults:-Adhd in adults by Paul wender
-You mean i'm not stupid,lazy,or crazy?By Kelly And Ramundo
-Managing attention and learning disabilities in late adolescence and adulthood by russell barkley
(very advanced academic discussions)If you want to e-mail me you can at shooto@ziplip.com and we can talk....If not we can continue on here but ......time to get the wife and kids awake...
Take care
Posted by iris2 on October 6, 2004, at 9:06:46
In reply to Geno....Let's Brainstorm......(very long), posted by thug life on October 6, 2004, at 8:38:37
I want to thank you for the information you posted. I hope it is helpful to Geno and I certainly know it will be to me. I am not diagnosed with ADHD or ADD but I certainly have the symptoms of ADD. I cannot focus, concentrate and have no energy. I take Ritalin, I started taking it for BP because of Parnate and when I went off the Parnate never stopped taking it. I have tried several other stimulants and am not able to take them. On the off chance that I can take Strattera, as a kind of back door stimulant I wondered what you might think of that.
I also set my alarm and take my Ritalin and go back to bed or sleep for about an hour or so until it kicks in. I think that is one of the things that drew me to your post.
Thanks,
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 6, 2004, at 9:24:56
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Spanuals Vs Adderall vs Ritalin, posted by geno on October 6, 2004, at 3:21:57
Geno,
I just wanted to say I am sorry if anything I said in my post upset you. I was only trying to tell you that my posts generally look similar to yours before I spend some time fixing and shortening them up. I guess you did not want to bother doing the spell check. I feel better when I do as my posts are easier to read and look like I actually can spell and type:)
Kudos for you for being the bigger person. I am glad you decided to let it go and post here again. You are as valued as the next poster. We will learn from you as you do from others on this site. I know some here are very knowledgeable about meds. If you read Dr Bob somewhere he describes how there are some on the board who are more knowledgeable and can provide information and some who just need to ask questions. I myself have learned or am still in the process of asking a lot and answering the less pharmaceutical questions or ones that people ask directly experience with a certain medicine. I was feeling like I was abusing the board when all I did was ask questions but according to Dr Bob that is fine. Sorry I could not find what he wrote and have to go to work so I do not have time. Perhaps you will find that passage. I know it made me feel better.
irene
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