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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Questionmark on July 23, 2004, at 20:25:25
Okay, i'm sorry, i think i have asked this question at least once or twice before, but i never seem to get a satisfactory answer (one as knowledgable or detailed and in depth as i would like [not that the answers i did get were bad, of course]). But...
Lithium is believed to stimulate or enhance neurogenesis in at least a select few parts of the brain. (This is apparently done-- as Linkadge states in a current thread-- through lithium's increase in BDNF, or Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor [i believe]). And i've read in at least a couple of reliable sources (abstracts probably) that lithium significantly decreases neuronal inositol levels and/or function (can't remember exactly).
Yet inositol as well as lithium have been shown to be effective in OCD, depression, and panic disorder (the latter may only be with inositol)-- though inositol can be effective on its own while lithium may mostly be effective only when augmenting another effective treatment (i'm not sure). And supplemental inositol is supposedly beneficial for healthy brain function, especially the serotonergic systems, supposedly. Now lithium, in appropriate doses, is also apparently believed to be beneficial to healthy brain function, again particularly with the serotonergic system (right?). So ... what's the deal here?
And so, which do you think is better for neurogenesis and/or prevention of neuronal death and healthy brain function: lithium or inositol. Obviously lithium has much more noticeable effects, but, i don't know whether this is relevant or not. Shoot, i was going to ask something else i think but i forget what it is and i have to go. Ah well. If any of you could shed any light on this confusion i would be highly appreciative (and impressed). And again i'm sorry if this question is sort of reiterating itself from before and has been answered to some degree before. But i'm just really confused and curious about this matter. Thanks.
Posted by linkadge on July 24, 2004, at 12:33:00
In reply to Lithium and inositol: neurophysiological effects, posted by Questionmark on July 23, 2004, at 20:25:25
I think that lithium is certainly the more robust neuroprotectant and neurotrophic agent.
Inositol is not terribly neuroprotective. I think it works best for depression and OCD. Lithium works for *some* forms of depression but is not as good for panic, and does almost nothing for OCD.
I believe that inositol works to increases the sensitivity of the serotonin receptor sites while lithium increases the firing of the serotonin neurons.
It does seem like the information out there is somewhat contredictory, and I don't know for sure myself.
Some researchers suggest that inostiol supplementation during lithium treatement might reduce side effects without reducing the effect.
I have often wondered this myself. Is inostiol depleation really necessary for the theraputic effect of lithium ?? Perhaps only the antimanic aspect??One thing I do know is that inositol is *not* good for psychotic features of mood disorders while lithium is. Inositol really helped my depression but I felt a little bit out of control. Not manic, but kind of posessed. Lithium didn't make me feel as happy as I was on inositol but not depressed and much saner.
Linkadge
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 24, 2004, at 13:35:02
In reply to Lithium and inositol: neurophysiological effects, posted by Questionmark on July 23, 2004, at 20:25:25
I take inositol - Jarrow myo-inositol to be exact. I find that it helps, but I have to take time off from it or it will be too stimulating. This is recommended. I take lithium as well (and a bunch of other stuff).
I had the same question and confusion. Is it or is it not good for bipolars? Where does it work? What I've read is that, at least with the myo form, it acts in the second messenger cAMP system within the neuron's nucleus, rather than with the receptor/membrane. I can't remember or provide the sources, but I recently read that inositol is now decided to be helpful for bipolars.
Posted by KaraS on July 26, 2004, at 18:40:36
In reply to Re: Lithium and inositol: neurophysiological effects » Questionmark, posted by BarbaraCat on July 24, 2004, at 13:35:02
> I take inositol - Jarrow myo-inositol to be exact. I find that it helps, but I have to take time off from it or it will be too stimulating. This is recommended. I take lithium as well (and a bunch of other stuff).
>
> I had the same question and confusion. Is it or is it not good for bipolars? Where does it work? What I've read is that, at least with the myo form, it acts in the second messenger cAMP system within the neuron's nucleus, rather than with the receptor/membrane. I can't remember or provide the sources, but I recently read that inositol is now decided to be helpful for bipolars.
How much inositol do you take? 12 grams or less? What does it do for you (if it's possible to separate that out from your other meds/supplements)?
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 27, 2004, at 22:34:08
In reply to Re: Lithium and inositol: neurophysiological effects, posted by KaraS on July 26, 2004, at 18:40:36
> How much inositol do you take? 12 grams or less? What does it do for you (if it's possible to separate that out from your other meds/supplements)?**I take 1 tablespoon. 1/4 t is 600mg so I guess that would be around 7.2 grams. I think it lightens my mood. Right now I'm having a hard time since we're having to put down a very special cat tomorrow. I'm feeling very sad and probably won't be a good judge of anything for a while. So, keep me in your thoughts. - Barbara
Posted by WAKI on July 28, 2004, at 11:33:32
In reply to Lithium and inositol: neurophysiological effects, posted by Questionmark on July 23, 2004, at 20:25:25
Interesting question.
I have come to the conclusion that Lithium and inositol for instance is only effective if your brain needs it.
For example, I was placed on Lithium and had blood work done until I reached the maximum tollerated amount of that .1 whatever that toxicity limit is.
The only effect I had from lithium is my eyes and mouth always tasted like salt. I went off it and my salty salin stopped in a matter of days.
Inositol I've tried also at maximum dosage and found no benifit.
L-Tyrosine which is a off the shelf med, I gain great benifits from it. It magnifies my Wellbutrin emensly.
My point is, try them all and see which suplements you benifit from, and which do nothing.
Give yourself good measurable time IE. 4 to 6 weeks if need be to really allow your body to test the biochemical change.
Good luck!
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