![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 13:47:23
Wow, this stuff seems to work. It's a Russian nootropic that is GABA bonded to niacin (vitamin B3). GABA by itself doesn't pass through the brain barrier easily, but it does when bonded with niacin.
In the past, I've tried a variety of herbs and drugs. I always try them one at a time so that I know which effects to attribute to which drugs. I've taken SJW, 5htp, kava, theanine, selegiline (deprenyl), adrafinil, and tyrosine.
SJW -- made me more anxious for a few days, then curtailed much of the anxiety. Quit it because it also dampened my emotions and killed motivation
5htp - helped sleeping at night, but not with daytime anxiety
Kava - took care of anxiety, but made me almost "high"; also was sedating at times
theanine - great supplement. My second favorite for Social Phobia. Problem was it increases alpha waves, never felt strong positive emotionality
selegiline (5 mg/day) - sexual stimulator, not good for social phobia. Made me more paranoid than before, hyper stimulated
tyrosine - same effects as selegiline, with super high paranoia and some random explosive rage problems
adrafinil - made me hyperfocused, did nothing for anxiety either way
and finally...
PICAMILON - according to sites, takes up to an hour to work. With me, it takes a little over an hour, and when it kicks in, but I am anxiety free for about 5-6 hours. Definately not sedating, maybe a little stimulating if anything. I take twice the daily recommended dose, since I believe social phobics have severe dysfunction of the GABA system.
Anyway, that's where I stand to date. I'll try to keep this board updated on my progress every week or so.
Later!
Posted by jonh kimble on March 1, 2003, at 14:04:42
In reply to Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 13:47:23
Is it a presciption med? I saw it on some anti aging thing. Is it expensive? Can you take it all the time without severe side effects? what other meds have helped you for social phobia? Mine is really severe and I havent really had much luck with anything yet.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 14:47:16
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by jonh kimble on March 1, 2003, at 14:04:42
> Is it a presciption med? I saw it on some anti aging thing. Is it expensive? Can you take it all the time without severe side effects? what other meds have helped you for social phobia? Mine is really severe and I havent really had much luck with anything yet.
You have to order it online, I believe. That's what I do - you get a botle of 60 pills (100 mg each) for around $35 dollars. Since the recommended dosage for anxiety is 150 mg a day (3 doses of 50mg each), the bottle should technically last 1.5 months. But I take between 200 - 300 mg a day, so the bottle may last a little under 1 month. I get it from xxx
Here's another site that will give you info on it:
www.biologicsonline.com/BioPages/Picamilon.html
I'll get you some more sites that discuss quantified studies on psychological effects.
As far as toxicity is concerned, all the literature claims it is extremely safe, even at amounts 10-15 times the recommended dosage, but I wouldn't test that.
Other drugs that have helped - l-theanine was pretty good for social phobia. Don't be turned off b/c its not a "clinical drug". Theanine is a potent substance that has been proven to have anti-anxiety effects by increasing gaba and Alpha waves. Plus its available at many Nutrition stores in the US.
Posted by viridis on March 1, 2003, at 19:16:51
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 14:47:16
I've tried a lot of supplements, and most don't do much for me in terms of anxiety relief. L-theanine (an amino acid found in green tea) actually does seem to have a calming, focusing effect. It's used extensively in Japan, in both the natural (tea) and synthetic forms. I don't find it as potent as prescription meds (which I continue to take), but I was pleasantly surprised that theanine actually seems to help. So, I can second the previous post in this respect (I haven't tried picamilon).
Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 19:23:40
In reply to L-theanine » Michael Bell, posted by viridis on March 1, 2003, at 19:16:51
> I've tried a lot of supplements, and most don't do much for me in terms of anxiety relief. L-theanine (an amino acid found in green tea) actually does seem to have a calming, focusing effect. It's used extensively in Japan, in both the natural (tea) and synthetic forms. I don't find it as potent as prescription meds (which I continue to take), but I was pleasantly surprised that theanine actually seems to help. So, I can second the previous post in this respect (I haven't tried picamilon).
Theanine was a blessing and a curse to me. It definitely helped with the anxiety, but caused too much relaxation. Also, theanine also raises dopamine in addition to gaba, so I was still getting heart palpitations. The picamilone has a "cleaner", more potent effect for me.
Posted by utopizen on March 1, 2003, at 20:43:19
In reply to Re: L-theanine, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 19:23:40
For one thing, this sounds like an ad. Esp. since link sells it.
Another thing, a newsgroup poster found good effects for 3 weeks, then anxiety after that, from the drug.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 22:17:23
In reply to Re: L-theanine, posted by utopizen on March 1, 2003, at 20:43:19
> For one thing, this sounds like an ad. Esp. since link sells it.
>
> Another thing, a newsgroup poster found good effects for 3 weeks, then anxiety after that, from the drug.By "ad", if you're talking about the website I posted, yes it is a site that sells the product, so definitely take what they say with a grain of salt. I'm always sketched out by the good comments a website gives about the products they sell, b/c they're obviously biased. But I decided to try Picamilon since I'm convinced GABA dysfunction is the main problem with S/A. So far results have been great.
Also, I'll post follow-ups to let people know how progress is going with this treatment, good or bad.
Posted by jay on March 2, 2003, at 0:31:42
In reply to L-theanine » Michael Bell, posted by viridis on March 1, 2003, at 19:16:51
> I've tried a lot of supplements, and most don't do much for me in terms of anxiety relief. L-theanine (an amino acid found in green tea) actually does seem to have a calming, focusing effect. It's used extensively in Japan, in both the natural (tea) and synthetic forms. I don't find it as potent as prescription meds (which I continue to take), but I was pleasantly surprised that theanine actually seems to help. So, I can second the previous post in this respect (I haven't tried picamilon).
>
>
>I have been doing tons of reading on supplements, vitamins, and mental health. One very interesting thing I came across is that there are many people, especially with hyper-anxiety, who don't respond well and actually become irritated and agitated with even just a tiny bit of excessive amount of a certain group of vitamins/supplements.
I don't recall the *name* they gave to this group, but it included the more 'activating' vitamins/supplements, from Sam-e, l-theanine, Vit B-12 (in excess), Folic Acid (in excess amounts), l-phenlalynine(sp?), l-tyrosine, and there where others. I *think* they where part of a group of something to do with "methyl donor" or something like that. I know B-12, Folic Acid work synergistically with Sam-e.
I found it true because all of the named substances (in the usual bottled supplement form, which are many, many times greater than found in food) to be irritating and agitating. In fact, I found a few to possibly link to mania (Folic Acid in particular, which in VERY HIGH DOSES eg. +3000 mcg has been linked to mania.) Of course SAM-e can cause mania, and would explain why it can cause irritability, rage, etc.
For folks with bad anxiety, or BP folks, I would be very careful with using these supplements. I'd think that people who respond badly to ANY stimulant (i.e. even caffeine in a small amount can cause irritation and anger) should be deeply cautious.
I couldn't sleep for two days after ingesting a large massive quantity of B-12 extended-release tablets once, even then I had no idea of the co-relation.
This of course may or isn't true for everybody. Slightly higher than normal doses of these supplements help quite a few people. I just think we have to be cautious, and look at the flipside of the coin.
Jay
Posted by viridis on March 2, 2003, at 0:53:17
In reply to L-theanine/others..some w/ anxiety don't tolerate » viridis, posted by jay on March 2, 2003, at 0:31:42
That's a reasonable approach. I have anxiety problems, and can't tolerate much caffeine. Phenylalanine was also bad, and Wellbutrin was terrible. But Adderall (an amphetamine) actually relaxes me. So, it's clearly very individual-specific. I do like L-theanine (and tea), though.
Posted by btnd on March 2, 2003, at 3:10:10
In reply to Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 13:47:23
> Wow, this stuff seems to work. It's a Russian nootropic that is GABA bonded to niacin (vitamin B3). GABA by itself doesn't pass through the brain barrier easily, but it does when bonded with niacin.
Isn't this the way GHB works? GHB was created because scientists wanted GABA to cross blood-brain barrier.
I'm glad Picamilon is working for you.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 2, 2003, at 8:18:17
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - GHB analogue?, posted by btnd on March 2, 2003, at 3:10:10
> > Wow, this stuff seems to work. It's a Russian nootropic that is GABA bonded to niacin (vitamin B3). GABA by itself doesn't pass through the brain barrier easily, but it does when bonded with niacin.
>
>
> Isn't this the way GHB works? GHB was created because scientists wanted GABA to cross blood-brain barrier.
> I'm glad Picamilon is working for you.
These sites describe in detail how GHB works:www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-46.html
andwww.ualberta.ca/~csps/JPPS4(2)/M.Okun/GHB
To sun up those articles: basically, GHB's effects are a result from interaction with two systems: GABA and DOPAMINE.
GABA -- GHB's immediate sedative effects are mediated by the GABA system. GHB does NOT bind with GABA receptors, but it is a metabolite of GABA and GHB receptors do bind on GABAergic neurons. Also, there is a relationship to Benzos as well.
Dopamine: GHB causes dopamine transmission to be inhibited for several hours, causing a buildup of unreleased dopamine. For these hours, the user is calm and uninhibited. Eventually the user falls asleep, and then all the dopamine is released, causing person to be in a refreshed, hyper-alert state the next morning.
So to answer your question (finally) - GHB works differently from Picamilon. Picamilon only has immediate effects on GABA, according to much of the literature. But it probably has indirect effects on dopamine as well, b/c GABA mediates all of the neurotransmitters, and has a special relationship with dopamine.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2003, at 12:17:28
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 14:47:16
> I get it from xxx
Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the FDA:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
It's fine, however, to discuss the medications themselves. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by daizy on March 2, 2003, at 12:51:21
In reply to Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 13:47:23
picamilon.net has some good info.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 2, 2003, at 12:59:24
In reply to Re: medication without a prescription » Michael Bell, posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2003, at 12:17:28
> > I get it from xxx
>
> Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the FDA:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
>
> It's fine, however, to discuss the medications themselves. Thanks,
>
> Bob
No problem, Dr. Bob.
Posted by Kari on March 2, 2003, at 13:07:36
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - GHB analogue?, posted by Michael Bell on March 2, 2003, at 8:18:17
What effect does GABA have on dopamine?
Thanks.
Posted by Michael Bell on March 2, 2003, at 13:19:58
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - GHB analogue?, posted by Kari on March 2, 2003, at 13:07:36
> What effect does GABA have on dopamine?
> Thanks.
GABA's main effect on dopamine is to inhibit its release, especially in situations where dopamine really shouldn't be released. It works like the brakes on a car. In the normal brain, when dopamine transmission has reached optimum rate, GABA is taken up by remaining dopamine cells, and this tells the cells to stop releasing dopamine. Then the enzyme for resonsible breaking down GABA destroys the GABA. When there is a dysfunction of GABA, there is uncontrolled release of dopamine (and norepinephrine) in situations that shouldn't trigger this reaction. So poor GABA function is like having brakes that don't work properly, so the car is out of control so to speak. GABA is also responsible for mediation of other transmitters, including serotonin and norepinephrine.
Posted by Kari on March 3, 2003, at 11:42:31
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - GHB analogue?, posted by Michael Bell on March 2, 2003, at 13:19:58
Posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 21:44:19
In reply to Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2003, at 13:47:23
> Wow, this stuff seems to work. It's a Russian nootropic that is GABA bonded to niacin (vitamin B3). GABA by itself doesn't pass through the brain barrier easily, but it does when bonded with niacin.
>
> In the past, I've tried a variety of herbs and drugs. I always try them one at a time so that I know which effects to attribute to which drugs. I've taken SJW, 5htp, kava, theanine, selegiline (deprenyl), adrafinil, and tyrosine.
>
> SJW -- made me more anxious for a few days, then curtailed much of the anxiety. Quit it because it also dampened my emotions and killed motivation
>
> 5htp - helped sleeping at night, but not with daytime anxiety
>
> Kava - took care of anxiety, but made me almost "high"; also was sedating at times
>
> theanine - great supplement. My second favorite for Social Phobia. Problem was it increases alpha waves, never felt strong positive emotionality
>
> selegiline (5 mg/day) - sexual stimulator, not good for social phobia. Made me more paranoid than before, hyper stimulated
>
> tyrosine - same effects as selegiline, with super high paranoia and some random explosive rage problems
>
> adrafinil - made me hyperfocused, did nothing for anxiety either way
>
> and finally...
>
> PICAMILON - according to sites, takes up to an hour to work. With me, it takes a little over an hour, and when it kicks in, but I am anxiety free for about 5-6 hours. Definately not sedating, maybe a little stimulating if anything. I take twice the daily recommended dose, since I believe social phobics have severe dysfunction of the GABA system.
>
>
> Anyway, that's where I stand to date. I'll try to keep this board updated on my progress every week or so.
>
>
> Later!
>HELP! Wondering where you bought your picamilion in the United states????? THanks!!!!!!!
Posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 21:48:11
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t » Michael Bell, posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 21:44:19
> > Wow, this stuff seems to work. It's a Russian nootropic that is GABA bonded to niacin (vitamin B3). GABA by itself doesn't pass through the brain barrier easily, but it does when bonded with niacin.
> >
> > In the past, I've tried a variety of herbs and drugs. I always try them one at a time so that I know which effects to attribute to which drugs. I've taken SJW, 5htp, kava, theanine, selegiline (deprenyl), adrafinil, and tyrosine.
> >
> > SJW -- made me more anxious for a few days, then curtailed much of the anxiety. Quit it because it also dampened my emotions and killed motivation
> >
> > 5htp - helped sleeping at night, but not with daytime anxiety
> >
> > Kava - took care of anxiety, but made me almost "high"; also was sedating at times
> >
> > theanine - great supplement. My second favorite for Social Phobia. Problem was it increases alpha waves, never felt strong positive emotionality
> >
> > selegiline (5 mg/day) - sexual stimulator, not good for social phobia. Made me more paranoid than before, hyper stimulated
> >
> > tyrosine - same effects as selegiline, with super high paranoia and some random explosive rage problems
> >
> > adrafinil - made me hyperfocused, did nothing for anxiety either way
> >
> > and finally...
> >
> > PICAMILON - according to sites, takes up to an hour to work. With me, it takes a little over an hour, and when it kicks in, but I am anxiety free for about 5-6 hours. Definately not sedating, maybe a little stimulating if anything. I take twice the daily recommended dose, since I believe social phobics have severe dysfunction of the GABA system.
> >
> >
> > Anyway, that's where I stand to date. I'll try to keep this board updated on my progress every week or so.
> >
> >
> > Later!
> >
>
> HELP! Wondering where you bought your picamilion in the United states????? THanks!!!!!!!
you can email the info at amy@pause.com thanks soo soo much!!!! Buddhi thanks again
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2004, at 8:02:37
In reply to Re: Picamilon for Social Phobia - Holy Sh*t » buddhi, posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 21:48:11
> > HELP! Wondering where you bought your picamilion in the United states?????
I'd like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040110/msgs/311970.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.