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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
I was told I have bi-polar disorder. I have been taking 50 mgs of Luvox a day and 1mg of Xanax a day for 7 years for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. My new doctor said my main concern is bi-polar.
He prescribed Depakote and I hated it. I felt terrible. Then I read about about the side effects. Life threatening pancreas possibilities out of the blue? No thanks!!
Is there any alternative to getting mania under control without taking medications that scare the hell out of me after reading the package insert?
I am tired of not feeling stable. I yell at my finacee and say hurtful things I don't mean. I have gotten physical with her like dumping ashtrays on her and break her stuff. I feel so bad and evil. Maybe I am just a rotten human being and this is what rotten people do? Maybe bi-polar is just a nice way of telling me I'm scum and to make a few bucks off of me? Some days I want to quit my job and do dangerous things like sleep with hookers, gamble my money away, and quit my job. Other days I want to have a normal life with a family, house and a dog in the yard.
I feel my life is dangerous to those that love me because I am so unstable. I hurt those that love me and I don't want to do it anymore. But i cannot bring myself to take these drugs that make me feel worse and immobile plus have package inserts that look like a Steven King novel.
If there is no other solution please be honest. False hope is worse than no hope. If I am stuck with this I have another plan, but I'd like to know if there is anything else I can do/take.
Thanks.
-Scott
Posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:46:19
In reply to Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
I really don't have the mania symptoms I don't think. Could it just be depression? I know irratibility is a symptom of depression.
Posted by Metalblade on February 7, 2004, at 8:26:47
In reply to Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
Try augmenting with lithium. It does have side effects but it made my depression go away in combination with the paxil I take plus it makes me not crave going to bars and chasing women all the time. Some people would probably hate that it does that but for me this is a big plus.
Posted by Sad Panda on February 7, 2004, at 8:51:26
In reply to Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
> I was told I have bi-polar disorder. I have been taking 50 mgs of Luvox a day and 1mg of Xanax a day for 7 years for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. My new doctor said my main concern is bi-polar.
>
> He prescribed Depakote and I hated it. I felt terrible. Then I read about about the side effects. Life threatening pancreas possibilities out of the blue? No thanks!!
>
> Is there any alternative to getting mania under control without taking medications that scare the hell out of me after reading the package insert?
>
> I am tired of not feeling stable. I yell at my finacee and say hurtful things I don't mean. I have gotten physical with her like dumping ashtrays on her and break her stuff. I feel so bad and evil. Maybe I am just a rotten human being and this is what rotten people do? Maybe bi-polar is just a nice way of telling me I'm scum and to make a few bucks off of me? Some days I want to quit my job and do dangerous things like sleep with hookers, gamble my money away, and quit my job. Other days I want to have a normal life with a family, house and a dog in the yard.
>
> I feel my life is dangerous to those that love me because I am so unstable. I hurt those that love me and I don't want to do it anymore. But i cannot bring myself to take these drugs that make me feel worse and immobile plus have package inserts that look like a Steven King novel.
>
> If there is no other solution please be honest. False hope is worse than no hope. If I am stuck with this I have another plan, but I'd like to know if there is anything else I can do/take.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -ScottSounds like you are Bipolar to me. BP1 is the classic Manic Depression. In BP2 the manic phase can be very mild or appear as extreme irratibility, rage or an overwhelming desire to do dangerous or stupid things.
I don't much about BP meds but Lithium & Lamictal seem like the ones I'd try 1st.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by holymama on February 7, 2004, at 9:05:16
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do? » VitalSign, posted by Sad Panda on February 7, 2004, at 8:51:26
Hi Vitalsign
I have recently started Trileptal as a mood stabilizer for Bipolar II. I too put off medication and agonized over the diagnosis. What it all comes down to is this: A mood stabilizer makes me STABLE. I feel great -- not irritable, not a horrible person anymore. My days go by smoothly and I look forward to what I can do each day. I am like a different person. I still have some problems with the meds -- we are still tinkering with it. Some days I get mildly depressed and I feel like a MONSTER. I feel like Jeckle and Hyde. I kind of like having those days to remind me why I take the medications. Your questionings and blaming yourself for just being a horrible person sound like me. Don't give up after only one medication. Read about others -- and decide which one you might like to try next. There is lithium, tegretol, trileptal (a newer version of tegretol), lamictal, depakote, and others. I personally have not had any side effects except some tiredness that went away after the first month, so there are definately some people who do not have the side effects you hear so much about.
I feel bad for you. It sounds to me like you have a mood disorder of some kind, whether or not it is bipolar is not really important -- if your doctors think you might be, try it out. Maybe they are right -- maybe another mood stabilizer might help. What if you MIGHT feel good and stable after taking one that works well for you? Isn't that worth trying? It was that possibility that made me try a mood stabilizer, and I am SO glad that I did.
Take care and good luck to you.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 7, 2004, at 10:32:29
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by holymama on February 7, 2004, at 9:05:16
I'd also like to vouch for Trileptal. I've had no side effects except for some mild tiredness and spaciness. Certainly nothing like Depakote, which produced diarrhea, vomiting, and eventually landed me in the ER, unconscious at first, with an irregular heartbeat, low blood sugar bordering on coma, and potassium deficiency (this is a HIGHLY unusual reaction).
I started at 300mg bid with Trileptal, and noticed a little (mainly not crying out of the blue anymore), but nothing compared to what I feel at 450mg bid. I am a LOT less irritable and am able to think things through before I say them. It's also working well for agitation. Perhaps at this dosage or at 1200mg I will be able to tolerate Wellbutrin so that I can finally bring some of my ADD symptoms under control (Strattera worked somewhat but caused complete sexual dysfunction).
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 7, 2004, at 10:36:44
In reply to Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
I also forgot to mention Klonopin. Some people get mood stabilization from it with as little as 0.25mg bid. Try switching to 1mg Klonopin twice daily from your xanax and you might be pleasantly surprised.
I honestly don't get why anyone prescribes anything but klonopin in an outpatient setting for daily long-term use, except where there is a specific indication for something else, e.g. Valium for muscle spasms/irritable bowel syndrome.
Posted by drjanni on February 7, 2004, at 20:10:36
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 7, 2004, at 10:36:44
Klonapin (clonazipam) is VERY addictive, and can also cause terrible reactions if discontinued abruptly. Nice for panic, and anxiety attacks; but not particularly effective for Bipolar disorder (from what I understand). I have a Bipolar 2 Dx and have taken depakote (I've also taken Klonapin for breakthrough anxiety). Had no terrible side effects except uncontrolled appetite, which finally led me to request a script for Lithium. I felt safer with depakote than I do with Lithium. Lithium has given me better affects and stopped the pesky loss of appetite control.
Hope this helps.
Posted by sgoose on February 7, 2004, at 20:12:04
In reply to Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
brother scott i feel for you. i have been battling serious mental illness since i can remember. the best remedy i have found is to cut to the chase and get the scripts that are the closest to street drugs like uppers and downers. i'm talking benzo's, stim's... i don't believe in anti-depressants and "mood stabilizers" .. benzo's are the only things that stabilize me and the stims allow me to lift from depression and be motivated. find your path, find a doctor who cares.
> I was told I have bi-polar disorder. I have been taking 50 mgs of Luvox a day and 1mg of Xanax a day for 7 years for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. My new doctor said my main concern is bi-polar.
>
> He prescribed Depakote and I hated it. I felt terrible. Then I read about about the side effects. Life threatening pancreas possibilities out of the blue? No thanks!!
>
> Is there any alternative to getting mania under control without taking medications that scare the hell out of me after reading the package insert?
>
> I am tired of not feeling stable. I yell at my finacee and say hurtful things I don't mean. I have gotten physical with her like dumping ashtrays on her and break her stuff. I feel so bad and evil. Maybe I am just a rotten human being and this is what rotten people do? Maybe bi-polar is just a nice way of telling me I'm scum and to make a few bucks off of me? Some days I want to quit my job and do dangerous things like sleep with hookers, gamble my money away, and quit my job. Other days I want to have a normal life with a family, house and a dog in the yard.
>
> I feel my life is dangerous to those that love me because I am so unstable. I hurt those that love me and I don't want to do it anymore. But i cannot bring myself to take these drugs that make me feel worse and immobile plus have package inserts that look like a Steven King novel.
>
> If there is no other solution please be honest. False hope is worse than no hope. If I am stuck with this I have another plan, but I'd like to know if there is anything else I can do/take.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Scott
Posted by sarahsundae on February 7, 2004, at 21:22:48
In reply to Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by VitalSign on February 7, 2004, at 3:23:48
Having just been diagnosised myself as bipolar, I can totally understand what you are going through.
I started on Prozac, then Effexor and then Wellbutrin, which I have been on since November. It has done wonders for my depression, but the mania, mood swings, etc have just not gone away. I just began Topamax last night and I am hoping it helps.
Posted by Daydreamer on February 9, 2004, at 20:36:29
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do? » VitalSign, posted by Sad Panda on February 7, 2004, at 8:51:26
Anyone who is Bipolar-
has to take major medications.
Ecspecially with BP2.
I myself am only 22 and have been on 9 different meds.
Im trying a new one right now...
and its made me sick as a dog... (feels like I have a bad case of the flu)No one wants to have to rely on these meds..
but its a never ending battle.Your just going to have to find the right combo.
Posted by Parisss on February 11, 2004, at 1:00:47
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by Daydreamer on February 9, 2004, at 20:36:29
I have been fighting the Bipolar/Anxiety battle for 15+ years. I think I have had all the array of diagnosis combos there are, and certainly could paint a beautiful rainbow with the number of left over bottles of pills I have tried.
I have tried so many that most of the ones you mention I can't even recall why we stopped that one in lieu of another!
Normal? What is that? How do we know when we are there? How do we know when we are where we should stop and accept the rest as just life?
I think as a Bipolar (+ whatever the current Doc of the month is thinks I am) I can truly say that most other Bipolars and I have not made our circle of life a normal "Walton's Mtn" kind of life and so to adapt to that as a non-Bipolar would is what? How are we to know?
Posted by holymama on February 11, 2004, at 6:19:09
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by Parisss on February 11, 2004, at 1:00:47
I have to agree with Parisss.
I read somewhere that you do not 'become' bipolar. you 'are' bipolar. I have always been moody, extreme, and I don't think medications can take all of that out of me, nor would I want them to. I find that even on medication I have these behaviors, habits, whatever you call them, that I'm still dealing with. "Balance! That is what you are working towards" My therapist repeats again and again.
So I find myself 'being' bipolar even on medication. And I even see in my 3 year old daughter those same 'bipolar' tendancies -- at 3!!! She is black and white, jeckle and hyde. Passionate, moody, euphoric one day and hateful and 'in one of her moods' other days -- these changes last for days or weeks. Am I diagnosing my 3 year old? No....but keeping an eye on her. Everyone who saw me grow up says we are exactly the same in temperament. And I want things to be easier on her than they were for me. I sometimes feel I am going to therapy and working so hard for HER benefit -- if I can understand myself better, it will help her in the long run. One generation at a time...
Posted by Lazarus on February 11, 2004, at 18:23:56
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by Daydreamer on February 9, 2004, at 20:36:29
I also am BP2, rapid cycler. I take:
Abilify
Zyprexa or Seroquel
Lithium
Lamictal
StratteraThese meds keep me stable and functioning. Good luck on your search for the right meds.
Lazarus
Posted by Parisss on February 11, 2004, at 21:11:04
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do?, posted by holymama on February 11, 2004, at 6:19:09
Hi Holymama, I can empathize with your concern with your daughter. My daughter was diagnosed Bipolar when she was about 16 but by a therapist that believed that she was Bipolar by example. That she lived following my example of life. If so, then why was she medicated? Now she is grown, decided she is not really bipolar (she is a clone of me), is married and has a 2 yr old that is the 3rd generation "cloning" of me. Very bright, very charismatic, very scary. My daughter angers so easily over the subject and is living a troubled life, but I can't get near enough to help and my grandbaby is not fortunate enough yet to have a mother that is in "tune" with what we are heading towards.
My oldest son is Bipolar but was burnt out when he was young with the ignorance of the subject and all the Ritalin and ADHD diagnosis', hospitalizations and treatments to no avail. He now is a severe case and I can't get him near help. I wish I had known then what I know now. Your knowlege will go a long way with your daughter.
Best of luck to you
Paris
Posted by holymama on February 12, 2004, at 10:00:45
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do? » holymama, posted by Parisss on February 11, 2004, at 21:11:04
Dear Parisss,
I am so sorry to hear about your kids' struggles. It breaks my heart to hear it. I can imagine myself in your position some day. It's a shame that your daughter had a therapist who told her she is 'bipolar by example'. I have never heard of such a diagnosis. Therapists have such a strong influence on their patients -- they really need to be careful about what they say or they can easily cause someone more troubles. Though it sounds like your daughter is in denial about her responsiblity as well.
I'm glad to hear some positive feedback on my awareness of my daughter's potential for illness. I hate to sound like I am already diagnosing her in my mind, and I certainly am not a fan of doctors who diagnose and medicate young children unless there is a major problem. But I do feel like I am miles ahead of my own mother, who to this day agrees that she had no consciousness of my struggles or how to help me with them. She agrees that I have always had these problems as long as she can remember, and she didn't help me to deal with them. That is what I am trying to do for my daughter so that she never gets to the non-functioning point that I reached in my late 20s.
Posted by Ilene on February 12, 2004, at 14:04:30
In reply to Re: Bi-polar. Is there nothing I can do? » Parisss, posted by holymama on February 12, 2004, at 10:00:45
> Dear Parisss,
>
> I am so sorry to hear about your kids' struggles. It breaks my heart to hear it. I can imagine myself in your position some day. It's a shame that your daughter had a therapist who told her she is 'bipolar by example'. I have never heard of such a diagnosis. Therapists have such a strong influence on their patients -- they really need to be careful about what they say or they can easily cause someone more troubles. Though it sounds like your daughter is in denial about her responsiblity as well.
>
> I'm glad to hear some positive feedback on my awareness of my daughter's potential for illness. I hate to sound like I am already diagnosing her in my mind, and I certainly am not a fan of doctors who diagnose and medicate young children unless there is a major problem. But I do feel like I am miles ahead of my own mother, who to this day agrees that she had no consciousness of my struggles or how to help me with them. She agrees that I have always had these problems as long as she can remember, and she didn't help me to deal with them. That is what I am trying to do for my daughter so that she never gets to the non-functioning point that I reached in my late 20s.
This is a big problem for me, too, although I think if I had been medicated when I was young I might not have had the problems I have now. I've read there's evidence that early intervention can help things down the road. The theory is called "kindling"--the more episodes of bipolar or depression you have, the more you are likely to have, so if you can nip it in the bud...I really hate the thought of passing this disease (or set of diseases) to my kids. I have symptoms of atypical major depression, but my family history makes me wonder if maybe I'm a "soft" bipolar.
My mother was certainly into denial as a life management technique. Now I realize she had an anxiety disorder and may have been depressed. My aunt (her sister) had a MDD, and one of her sons (my cousin) probably has a personality disorder. One of my mother's cousins (a second cousin, maybe) committed suicide. My son is being evaluated for ADD.
Unconsciousness is pretty common. Being depressed is often being in denial. I'm sure many of us have experienced the feeling of being defective human beings, but not wanting to admit being mentally ill. When I was younger, especially, I was so incredibly irritable that I never felt I fit into the world. Everyone and everything rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know what would have helped.
What hurt me was being criticized and punished for things that were entirely beyond my control, like my "lack of motivation" and my school failures.
And another thing--I was sent by my parents, or saw on my own, several psychiatrists and counselors. *Not a single one diagnosed my depression.* NOT A SINGLE ONE. It was only when I read a description of the physical sensation of depression (being under water, or trapped behind glass) that I self-diagnosed and called a psychiatrist I found in the yellow pages. I was in my mid-30s. I got lucky, because I got an AD that worked, for a while.
I also self-diagnosed my GAD. Again, NO ONE RECOGNIZED IT, and it's so obvious in retrospect.
I'm trying to maintain good relationships with my kids, but I'm not the best-functioning adult in the world. I don't know how to talk to them about how they feel. It's so frightening to me.
I.
This is the end of the thread.
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