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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Francesco on January 9, 2004, at 8:37:45
I started today desipramine to target adhd syntoms on a very low dose (10mg). I found it activating and I feel more concentrated ... Moreover my mood is better than normal even if I don't feel hypomaniac or close to it. Did anyone had success in the long term with desipramine, expecially for adhd ? Which side-effects should I have to expect ?
Moreover my p-doc suggested that I could take also Remeron at night ... I can't understand the rationale of it since he seems to agree that I don't have a 'serotonin problem', since serotoninergic meds make me hostile. Does somebody see some reason for taking it I can't see ? Was it prescribed just to put me asleep in case desipramine resulted to be too activating ?
Thanks, I would continue to post about desipramine since so far it seems to be the only AD which doesn't make me feel worse from the very first day. Recently I tried Imipramine (10mg) but it made me angry.
Posted by zeugma on January 9, 2004, at 16:24:57
In reply to anyone had success with desipramine for adhd ? , posted by Francesco on January 9, 2004, at 8:37:45
> I started today desipramine to target adhd syntoms on a very low dose (10mg). I found it activating and I feel more concentrated ... Moreover my mood is better than normal even if I don't feel hypomaniac or close to it. Did anyone had success in the long term with desipramine, expecially for adhd ? Which side-effects should I have to expect ?
>
> Moreover my p-doc suggested that I could take also Remeron at night ... I can't understand the rationale of it since he seems to agree that I don't have a 'serotonin problem', since serotoninergic meds make me hostile. Does somebody see some reason for taking it I can't see ? Was it prescribed just to put me asleep in case desipramine resulted to be too activating ?
>
> Thanks, I would continue to post about desipramine since so far it seems to be the only AD which doesn't make me feel worse from the very first day. Recently I tried Imipramine (10mg) but it made me angry.
>
>
>
>
remeron is actually antiserotonergetic. It blocks serotonin 2 and 3 receptors potently.A little advertised fact is that many antidepressants are better described as "antiserotonergetic" than "serotonergetic." Many are both at once, like amitriptyline, and it is reasonable to think that this is partly responsible for the fact that no single AD seems more effective over a wide range than amitrip.
If SRI's make you moody then maybe Remeron would help, but desipramine by itself shouldn't set off serotonin-related problems.I've read reports of ADHD adults responding favorably to a very low dose of desipramine.
Did imipramine cause a lot of side effects? Desipramine is supposed to cause much less in the way of s/e, and to be, as your pdoc seems to worry, a lot more activating.
A lot of people say you can't tell a lot from the first day or two... Zoloft and Wellbutrin and Prozac made me sick from the day I tried them (Zoloft most severely as I described in another thread) and the problems i've had with klonopin set in within hours of taking the first dose. On the other hand nortriptyline felt OK the first day, and Strattera felt very alerting, and I continue to take both drugs with great success and minimal side effects.You should trust your instincts when it comes to these drugs.
Posted by Francesco on January 9, 2004, at 17:46:06
In reply to Re: anyone had success with desipramine for adhd ? , posted by zeugma on January 9, 2004, at 16:24:57
> remeron is actually antiserotonergetic. It blocks serotonin 2 and 3 receptors potently.
>
> A little advertised fact is that many antidepressants are better described as "antiserotonergetic" than "serotonergetic." Many are both at once, like amitriptyline, and it is reasonable to think that this is partly responsible for the fact that no single AD seems more effective over a wide range than amitrip.This beats me : ) I have never heard of that an antiserotoninergic med could work as an antidepressant. May you explain me better this point ? (pardon me for my naive knoledge of pharmacology and of english too ;-)
> If SRI's make you moody then maybe Remeron would help, but desipramine by itself shouldn't set off serotonin-related problems.
Mumble mumble. So my doctor thinks something like I have too much serotonin circulating in my system ? Is this what you mean by 'serotonin-related problems' ?
> I've read reports of ADHD adults responding favorably to a very low dose of desipramine.
I have read a lot of reports too and this is the reason why I'm on it. Even if it's only the my first day I can say I'm having good signs. It doesn't make me hostile like all the other meds I've tried and this is a good starting point for me since I don't want to hurt other people anymore.
> Did imipramine cause a lot of side effects? Desipramine is supposed to cause much less in the way of s/e, and to be, as your pdoc seems to worry, a lot more activating.
I can't remember bad physical side effects with Imipramine but I was on a very low dose for few days. The main reason for which I quit it was the nervousness and the hostileness mentioned above. There was also constipation I think, but if I have to take TCAs I have to cope with it, I suppose.
On the other hand nortriptyline felt OK the first day, and Strattera felt very alerting, and I continue to take both drugs with great success and minimal side effects.You should trust your instincts when it comes to these drugs.
Thanks for sharing, the last it seems to me a very good suggestion. So now you are on nortriptyline and Strattera, is it right ? What about side-effects of the combo ?
Posted by zeugma on January 9, 2004, at 18:23:51
In reply to Re: anyone had success with desipramine for adhd ? » zeugma, posted by Francesco on January 9, 2004, at 17:46:06
> > remeron is actually antiserotonergetic. It blocks serotonin 2 and 3 receptors potently.
> >
> > A little advertised fact is that many antidepressants are better described as "antiserotonergetic" than "serotonergetic." Many are both at once, like amitriptyline, and it is reasonable to think that this is partly responsible for the fact that no single AD seems more effective over a wide range than amitrip.
>
> This beats me : ) I have never heard of that an antiserotoninergic med could work as an antidepressant. May you explain me better this point ? (pardon me for my naive knoledge of pharmacology and of english too ;-)
>There is an excellent discussion of the effects of antiseronergetic meds on a nearby thread here, which is worth looking at. See "Thoughts on the 5ht2a (serotonin) Receptor."
> > If SRI's make you moody then maybe Remeron would help, but desipramine by itself shouldn't set off serotonin-related problems.
>
> Mumble mumble. So my doctor thinks something like I have too much serotonin circulating in my system ? Is this what you mean by 'serotonin-related problems' ?
>
I have no idea. From what you've said about him, anything's possible :)
> > I've read reports of ADHD adults responding favorably to a very low dose of desipramine.
>
> I have read a lot of reports too and this is the reason why I'm on it. Even if it's only the my first day I can say I'm having good signs. It doesn't make me hostile like all the other meds I've tried and this is a good starting point for me since I don't want to hurt other people anymore.
>
Sounds reasonable to me :)> > Did imipramine cause a lot of side effects? Desipramine is supposed to cause much less in the way of s/e, and to be, as your pdoc seems to worry, a lot more activating.
>
> I can't remember bad physical side effects with Imipramine but I was on a very low dose for few days. The main reason for which I quit it was the nervousness and the hostileness mentioned above. There was also constipation I think, but if I have to take TCAs I have to cope with it, I suppose.I've had to cope with it too.
> On the other hand nortriptyline felt OK the first day, and Strattera felt very alerting, and I continue to take both drugs with great success and minimal side effects.You should trust your instincts when it comes to these drugs.
>
> Thanks for sharing, the last it seems to me a very good suggestion. So now you are on nortriptyline and Strattera, is it right ? What about side-effects of the combo ?
>
Nortriptyline and Strattera are similar in terms of side effects. dry mouth and constipation. The side effects are much worse from klonopin. But Klonopin is the only thing that helps my anxiety.
>
Posted by Francesco on January 10, 2004, at 16:48:50
In reply to Re: anyone had success with desipramine for adhd ?, posted by zeugma on January 9, 2004, at 18:23:51
> Nortriptyline and Strattera are similar in terms of side effects. dry mouth and constipation. The side effects are much worse from klonopin. But Klonopin is the only thing that helps my anxiety.I must have read recently a very interesting post by a guy called Sal4Army, or something like that, who suggested safe meds for constipation and dry mouth induced by psychotropic meds. Have you checked it ?
I think I will give Remeron a try to see what happens. I read an article on Biopsychiatry.com that related, if my undestanding was correct, Remeron usage with an increase of dopamine and noripineprine in the prefrontal cortex. This sounds good for my Adhd. Another possible bonus for Remeron seems the possibility in reversing the sexual dysfunction of meds. I'm not sure I'm having this problem with desipramine but to prevent is better than to cure ;-)
Incidentally, do you find that Klonopin worsens your constipation and dry mouth ? I have never had this problem with benzos, but maybe I just didn't notice it.
Posted by zeugma on January 10, 2004, at 17:42:16
In reply to Re: anyone had success with desipramine for adhd ? » zeugma, posted by Francesco on January 10, 2004, at 16:48:50
>
> > Nortriptyline and Strattera are similar in terms of side effects. dry mouth and constipation. The side effects are much worse from klonopin. But Klonopin is the only thing that helps my anxiety.
>
> I must have read recently a very interesting post by a guy called Sal4Army, or something like that, who suggested safe meds for constipation and dry mouth induced by psychotropic meds. Have you checked it ?
>
> I think I will give Remeron a try to see what happens. I read an article on Biopsychiatry.com that related, if my undestanding was correct, Remeron usage with an increase of dopamine and noripineprine in the prefrontal cortex. This sounds good for my Adhd. Another possible bonus for Remeron seems the possibility in reversing the sexual dysfunction of meds. I'm not sure I'm having this problem with desipramine but to prevent is better than to cure ;-)
>
> Incidentally, do you find that Klonopin worsens your constipation and dry mouth ? I have never had this problem with benzos, but maybe I just didn't notice it.Klonopin has made all side effects worse. yes, I had constipation and dry mouth from the TCA and Strattera. The dry mouth was transient, the constipation constant, but I was sleeping normally, and physically feeling in the best shape of my life (not saying much, because I'm the kind of person who always looks sick). Adding Klonopin to these meds (plus Buspar, but at reasonable dosages- up to 30 mg/day- this drug is remarkably benign, i mean NO serious side effects) has strained my body, and I don't know how much is the Klonopin itself and how much is the result of adding one more drug to my already taxed system. But I can't function without Klonopin. NOTHING ELSE has done a damn thing for my anxiety. So I'm taking the smallest possible amount of Klonopin (.25 mg) and trying to minimize the side effects, which, since they are sleep-related, are really hard for me to deal with.
I saw in your other post that you were afraid the remeron might make you too patriotic. Does the fear of sexual side effects outweigh your fear of patriotism? :)
Posted by Francesco on January 11, 2004, at 12:37:14
In reply to Re: anyone had success with desipramine for adhd ?, posted by zeugma on January 10, 2004, at 17:42:16
> I saw in your other post that you were afraid the remeron might make you too patriotic. Does the fear of sexual side effects outweigh your fear of patriotism? :)Of cours it does : ) At least I could pick up patriotic girls ...
This is the end of the thread.
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