Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 288792

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26


AvPD -- I'm afraid not many people know what this is, nor do many doctors. It's not social anxiety.

I have it -- and I can be in large crowds, on a stage in front of people, or in a grocery store, and I do not have a problem at all.

But my life is largely lonely and empty of relationships. I have hardly any friends, let alone a love life. And I can't make friends. But I don't have social anxiety/phobia disorder.

What I experience is avoidancy -- and I've had it all my life. It is an adverse, fear-based reaction to intrapersonal social ineraction and intimacy. I cannot function in groups. I become detached, numb and removed. I have an extreme fear that I will not be accepted. Ultimately, I have no personality around others. I am extremely inhibited, to the point I am stone-faced and completely quiet in a social setting. I am extremely self-conscious. It is as if your soul and essence as a human is being judged and damned by others while you are in their presence. It is a horrific psychic pain.

I am detached and distant from others. I rarely experience joy or "fun" in being with friends or in groups. I cannot 'let go' and be myself.

I feel it is different from social anxiety -- and clinically, it is -- because the reaction isn't so much based on anxiety and physical symptoms, but on identity. A person with AvPD does not have a social identity at all. They also have difficulty building them with friends or in one-on-one situtations. It can take years to trust another person with "who you are".

I'm frustrated when the condition is boiled down to basic anxiety. "Take this benzo and the fear will go away." There's a lot more to it than that.

I don't know if drugs are the answer to this sort of thing. I'm starting Lexapro now -- I don't know if it will do anything. I don't think these psychiatrists know what they're doing, but trying this is better than continuing as I am.

I also get annoyed when people on this board complain about loss of a sex life after taking these drugs. It bugs me because I have no sex life to begin with, let alone sex drive. It can't get worse!! This extreme inhibition around others leads to a certain prudery and inhibition in every corner of my life, including sex. For one thing, I cannot dream of feeling emotional intimacy with a girl. It is also hard to simply meet and find a girl and become physical with her when you can barely talk to people and have no personality around them.

I don't care what these drugs do to my libido. Whether they make it better or worse. Because it's not a factor now and never has been because of the very problems I have. (I guess I can always take viagra! If anyone is qualified, it's me).

I also get annoyed when people whine about weight gain. For me, weight LOSS would be incredibly dangerous and discouraging if any drugs were to incite such a thing. I'm ALREADY thin. I ALREADY feel awful about BEING thin. So if a drug gets me fatter -- heck, if I put on 30, 40 pounds -- that would be incredible. It would be fantastic. (But with Lexapro, I don't think what will happen).

So those are a few pet peeves. I know everyone is different. I'm just expressing another side of things here. Not everybody has some big fancy sex life. Not everybody can gain weight easily, or at all.

I also want to say, that from a lot of what I read here, I don't see too many success stories. All I see are people jumping from one drug to the next (more like, five drugs to the next five), one bad experience to the next. Does anything WORK?

You hear stuff like, "Well, I feel a little better, but I'm sweating like crazy and having heart palpatations." I mean, what in god's name are we doing to ourselves?

All I know is, I couldn't keep going the way I was (or am). Sad, depressed, fearful of the world, no hope at all, completely distant from others. It's largely a phyisiological problem. My childhood and my life for all intents and purposes is as good as it gets. I just can't seem to make anything of it, or find anything good or enjoyable in life. I guess when you spend most of your life alone wishing you weren't, that happens.

The doctors I've talked to only seem to use about five or six drugs -- Lexapro, Paxil, Wellbutrin, etc. They don't even seem AWARE of anything else. And there's a ton out there. A lot of different drugs. It would be nice to talk to someone who actually knew all about this stuff and understood it. But how do you find a good doctor? You can't, unless you have thousands $$ to blow trying different ones out (and not everybody has insurance, because, like me, they can't hold steady jobs, can't complete college, can't make friends, can't establish any relationship or impact with the real world).

Anyway. My two cents.

BillyM

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by zeugma on December 11, 2003, at 17:27:39

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

I have AvPD, along with other diagnoses too numerous to mention. I think the cardinal feature of AvPD is embarrassment- I redden easily (as my coworkers have discovered to their great amusement), absolutely prefer not to be involved with anyone because sexual contact is intensely anxiety-provoking and embarrassing, reveal as little as possible about myself to anyone, and need a lot of time alone to sort through feelings and calm down from the terrible overstimulation I feel in the presence of others.

I suppose I see AvPD not as the loss of personality, but as the suppression of one- which is a little different. As far as treatments, well, i have so many other conditions that I can't say I have tried any specific to AvPD issues except for cognitive behavioral therapy- which was an utter disaster and a terrible provoker of anxiety in its own right.

Klonopin has helped somewhat with the social phobia issues. What i am trying to work through now is what is 'natural' to my personality and what isn't, which is a difficult task since all my life I've suffered from a combination of debilitating disorders that made most things impossible. I feel a great need for quiet, the time and space to think things out and let the raw emotionality ease off a little. I take:

nortriptyline 75 mg
Strattera 80 mg
buspirone 30 mg
Klonopin .25 mg

This combination essentially has me functional enough to actually be aware of the AvPD issues. As far as pharmocotherapy of AvPD goes, I would think that drugs helpful for severe social phobia would be indicated. That's why I'm giving Klonopin a shot. It has definitely helped me tolerate interacting with people in general, though I still desire to avoid more intense interpersonal situations.

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by BackOfClass on December 11, 2003, at 18:54:39

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

Have you ever thought that there may be some underlying problems, like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or ADD? You may be tackling the wrong daemon. I would consider talking to a doctor. You should perhaps be put on a stimulant along with Klonopin, in addition; it may not be bad to go on an anti-psychotic like Zyprexa for weight gain and continue with that anti-depressant. Give that combo a try and you will be a party animal. As far as getting coverage; you should contact the mental health department and they will cover the cost of your medicines. I would never suggest to a doctor that you have AvPD because it is considered untreatable by the “most helpful”: medications.

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by cybercafe on December 11, 2003, at 18:58:40

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by zeugma on December 11, 2003, at 17:27:39

> I have AvPD, along with other diagnoses too numerous to mention. I think the cardinal feature of AvPD is embarrassment- I redden easily (as my coworkers have discovered to their great amusement), absolutely prefer not to be involved with anyone because sexual contact is intensely anxiety-provoking and embarrassing, reveal as little as possible about myself to anyone, and need a lot of time alone to sort through feelings and calm down from the terrible overstimulation I feel in the presence of others.
>
> I suppose I see AvPD not as the loss of personality, but as the suppression of one- which is a little different. As far as treatments, well, i have so many other conditions that I can't say I have tried any specific to AvPD issues except for cognitive behavioral therapy- which was an utter disaster and a terrible provoker of anxiety in its own right.
>
> Klonopin has helped somewhat with the social phobia issues. What i am trying to work through now is what is 'natural' to my personality and what isn't, which is a difficult task since all my life I've suffered from a combination of debilitating disorders that made most things impossible. I feel a great need for quiet, the time and space to think things out and let the raw emotionality ease off a little. I take:
>
> nortriptyline 75 mg
> Strattera 80 mg
> buspirone 30 mg
> Klonopin .25 mg
>
> This combination essentially has me functional enough to actually be aware of the AvPD issues. As far as pharmocotherapy of AvPD goes, I would think that drugs helpful for severe social phobia would be indicated. That's why I'm giving Klonopin a shot. It has definitely helped me tolerate interacting with people in general, though I still desire to avoid more intense interpersonal situations.
>
>

i dunno.. i kind of rely on my friends to bring me out (even when i don't want too!!!!) and keep me in line .......
i usually have a good time when i force myself to approach people..... but then i have ADD too so i really appreciate what to others may be over stimulation

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder » billym

Posted by jjj on December 11, 2003, at 20:44:23

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

Hi BillyM,
I understand what you're going through. You described my experiences very well with regard to social situations. I'm pretty wooden as well and feel inadequate, embarressed, lonely and distant. nothing happening in the relationships department, etc...

I did have one brief relapse, when I became hypomanic. For that week I was very outgoing, chatting up women, feeling exuberent, etc... It didn't last long, but it was actually quite wonderful and really frightening at the same time.

That week showed me that it is possible for me to be outgoing and do things that I want to do. since then I haven't done much, but the experience is there as a kind of proof that the possibility of happiness exists.

I've been mostly trying to treat my depression. I'm doing CBT and taking prozac for that. If I'm feeling better I'm more prone to be able to actually do things and not worry so much.

-- jjj

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by CrazyMe on December 12, 2003, at 0:05:51

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

"...What I experience is avoidancy -- and I've had it all my life. It is an adverse, fear-based reaction to intrapersonal social ineraction and intimacy. I cannot function in groups. I become detached, numb and removed. I have an extreme fear that I will not be accepted. Ultimately, I have no personality around others. I am extremely inhibited, to the point I am stone-faced and completely quiet in a social setting. I am extremely self-conscious. It is as if your soul and essence as a human is being judged and damned by others while you are in their presence. It is a horrific psychic pain.

I am detached and distant from others. I rarely experience joy or "fun" in being with friends or in groups. I cannot 'let go' and be myself. ...."

This is an actual condition? I thought it was just my life! However I am lucky enough to be able to function within groups, I just never belong. I can do what I need to do, even take charge if I have to, but I always feel that if I disappeared the group would just self heal and not notice my absence. I have only one friend and I feel that I would have lost her long ago except that she is 2000 miles away. My divorce was final in 2000 and I have yet to date. Not for lack of wanting to, but for some reason I find it difficult to even discover the places where people go to meet each other. I can't remember the last time I had sex - which is rather pointless anyway since I have never experienced good sex in the first place.

But you are telling me that the fact that I am alone and cannot make or keep friends is an actual medically treatable condition?

Do they supply singles ad's with the medication?

I had a therapist once tell me that I should attend AA meetings as a way to meet people. I refused for various reasons (I hate walking into rooms full of strangers) but foremost among them was that I had enough problems already. I didn't want to meet someone who had more!

 

Re: Starting Meds, Generics, Doctor costs, etc » billym

Posted by jane d on December 12, 2003, at 0:21:34

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

BillyM,

It sounds to me like you are saying this will be the first time you have tried medication. If I misread you than some of this won't apply at all.

It's a very hard decision to make to try a psychotropic medication for the first time. I still remember my fear at crossing that line and that was years ago. I thought that it might change the few things I did like about myself, those that made me "myself", instead of those I didn't. That didn't happen and although the meds have not done as much as I hoped, I have no doubt that I am better off now than I was.

Remember when you read posts that people who aren't satisfied with their meds are more likely to be here. (The ones who are satisfied are probably off posting at online dating services or somsething). So you tend to get a skewed picture on side effects. And remember that everybody will have their own nightmare side effect that they just can't live with. For some it's gaining weight, for you it would probably be losing weight (and that can happen to), my own is probably worrying about getting "stupid". I think it's hard for all of us to really sympathize with someone else's pet fear.

I'm not really clear on the difference between avoidant personality and social phobia. At the very least it sounds like they overlap quite a bit. I'm diagnosed with depression only but I can see a bit of myself in both descriptions. And that part of my problems has responded well to Prozac. It might be worth your while to keep track of the drugs that are thought to help with social phobia also.

One way to deal with cost is to stick with the generics unless you have no choice. Unless your doctor is giving you promotional samples I don't see starting with Lexapro. Prozac is available as a generic and I think Luvox and Paxil are also. Celexa will be soon (which is why its' makers are pushing Lexapro so hard now). And the older drugs are cheaper still. There are other ways you might be able to get help with the costs. You can go thru a clinic as another poster suggested or try to qualify for one of the drug companies hardship programs. There are a lot of posts on these programs if you look in the archives.

I don't think that what doctor you see matters until you've tried and failed with the more common drugs. Cheap or expensive they will probably start you out with the same drugs because those drugs work more often. Unfortunately none of them can examine you, say aha!, you've got this really weird disorder but we know that it responds 100% to this exotic drug. Or even 80% or 60%. It just doesn't work that way. The best they can usually do is say that x drug often works with people for whom y and z have failed. It is trial and error and that's scary when you're the guinea pig. But from your description it sounds like you, like so many of us, have little or nothing to lose by trying.

Anyway, that's the end of my ramblings on this subject. I hope this works out for you.

Jane

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder? » billym

Posted by btnd on December 12, 2003, at 1:26:35

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

Yeah I naturally do have APD (more APD than social-anxiety). First meds had it pretty much under control - Klonopin 2mg, GHB. Nowadays this disorder is completely non-existent with the usage of Amisulpride (50mg/day).

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder? » billym

Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 12, 2003, at 9:12:25

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

> AvPD -- I'm afraid not many people know what this is, nor do many doctors. It's not social anxiety.
----------

I feel you. I was diagnosed with social anxiety, but the descriptions in the DSM didn't really jibe with how I felt. I can talk to people in a professional capacity quite easily, and i don't really get overly anxious around people, I just get very reserved.
For those unfamiliar, avoidant personality disorder is marked by the following:

-avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
-is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
-shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed
is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
-is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
-is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing

basically, you think that you don't fit in, and that other people will dislike you. If you've had enough experience of people actually treating you this way, it sticks. I don't know how many times I've said something in a group of people and been ignored, only to have someone else say the same thing and recieve praise and approval. My dad also did his part to make me feel like the person I am is ridiculous.
Certainly, there's an element of anxiety about it, but it's different. When you're not speaking, there isn't any anxiety. It's almost more of a belief I have than a fear. People just don't get me, I figure. It keeps me from being myself, instead opting for safer, blander expressions. I never say what I think.
Not sure that medications do much for this. On them, I'm not as depressed, but I still don't jump into social situations at all. It probably requires extensive therapy.

 

re: response to everyone

Posted by billym on December 12, 2003, at 20:58:33

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder? » billym, posted by btnd on December 12, 2003, at 1:26:35

To Eddie and everyone else,

I definitely relate to what you said, Eddie. It is different from social anxiety, but as another poster pointed out, the symptoms greatly overlap with social anxiety.

Often it's a deeper issue with identity that requires therapy. It's a pain that exists outside of social situations and something you carry with you -- a feeling of total inadequacy in your relation to others. You feel that you will never experience the joy of being in love or close friendships. Which leads to general depression, and so on. Maybe people with SA also experience this? I think the DSM criteria spells it out very well (which is what Eddie quoted).

Today, I quit my job. The manager approached me and said, "You look like you're in pain." He meant mental pain. I was. I took my things, apologized for my inconvenience, and left abruptly.

At least there is always solitude. We need it like air.

Billy

 

re: response to everyone » billym

Posted by CrazyMe on December 12, 2003, at 22:38:14

In reply to re: response to everyone , posted by billym on December 12, 2003, at 20:58:33

> To Eddie and everyone else,
>
> I definitely relate to what you said, Eddie. It is different from social anxiety, but as another poster pointed out, the symptoms greatly overlap with social anxiety.
>
> Often it's a deeper issue with identity that requires therapy. It's a pain that exists outside of social situations and something you carry with you -- a feeling of total inadequacy in your relation to others. You feel that you will never experience the joy of being in love or close friendships. Which leads to general depression, and so on. Maybe people with SA also experience this? I think the DSM criteria spells it out very well (which is what Eddie quoted).
>
> Today, I quit my job. The manager approached me and said, "You look like you're in pain." He meant mental pain. I was. I took my things, apologized for my inconvenience, and left abruptly.
>
> At least there is always solitude. We need it like air.
>
> Billy


Geez Billy I've spent the last 2 1/2 years being too inadequate to find another job and you have the strength to just leave the one you have? I envy you.

I've had so much solitude of late that I feel like I am suffocating, how ironic. What is that saying, water water everywhere and not a drop to drink?

Why is it when you desperately want to be included, to have people around, to have someone to care for, to have someone care about you - there is no one? Yet when you need solitude you can't find a place to hide?

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by brussell on December 12, 2003, at 23:56:56

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

Your symptoms sound pretty rotton, and pretty familiar. I've been doing psychoanalyticly-oriented therapy (with a trained analyst) for a few years now. While the therapy hasn't solved my depression or anxiety problems (I needed meds for that) it definitely did wonders for my social skills and confidence.

A good therapist can help you get comfortable "being yourself" in a safe setting, and give you coaching and feedback on your work and social life.

You definitely might benefit from an antidepressant or antianxiety drug. However, I think that good regular therapy is the best way to deal with persistent problems with relationships.

Best Wishes

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by st@cy on December 13, 2003, at 13:35:34

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

i think i do. i have not yet been to a doctor, but i'm going to on monday. i was almost in tears, i don't know if from joy for seeing that i'm not alone, or from how triggering it is to hear someone else experiencing what i've been trying to figure out for so long! i don't know what kind of meds to take, and i'm terrified of being put on the wrong kind and i'll never get better. Have you gotton better on any certain kind of med, are the dr.s all quacks that don't really know what you're going through? do they actually care?

 

Re: to stacy ...

Posted by billym on December 13, 2003, at 14:28:10

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by st@cy on December 13, 2003, at 13:35:34

>Have you gotton better on any certain kind of >med, are the dr.s all quacks that don't really >know what you're going through? do they >actually care?

Stacy,

It seems like most psychiatrists use the same M.O. -- they aren't there to listen to your problems, they're there to find out what the medical condition is and treat it. That's it.

I'm on my third day of Lexapro -- and it seems to be working great. I feel more like "myself" already. It's working extremely fast. And while I completely fell apart at my job yesterday (I was a waiter), I didn't feel bad about it afterwards. I accepted that this is how I am. Maybe I won't force myself into situations like that anymore (jobs that requre great social skills). No side-effects so far on it, except for extreme insomnia the first night. I think it's a good, safe drug, and way better than Paxil.

I'm still weird, lonely, inept, awkward ... The most important thing is just coming to terms with yourself. Eventually, if you can be yourself, you'll find other like-minds out there.

So, yes, there is hope, Stacy.

Billy

 

APD -- what meds would you guys recommend?

Posted by Mr. Underhill on December 13, 2003, at 21:22:55

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

BillyM's description at the start of this thread hit home for me. I avoid anything having to do with other people. However, it isn't so much an issue of inadequacy, as others have said; self-identity is the main issue for me.

What medicines could work for this?

zeugma says the following are ok at best.
nortriptyline 75 mg
Strattera 80 mg
buspirone 30 mg
Klonopin .25 mg

btnd says Amisulpride 50 mg/day is the solution for him/her/it.

What are others? What should one try? I'm on Effexor, only a minimum dosage because the withdrawl was too much to suffer. What is effective for APD?

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by RacerT514 on December 15, 2003, at 15:41:06

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by zeugma on December 11, 2003, at 17:27:39

BillyM! What's up man? It is Tyler from the APD board, just to let you know. BTW, lots of people have left APD and gone to this new board called Blabyrinth that Arobin set up. The url is http://groups.msn.com/Blabyrinth
I don't remember seeing you around there at all yet, so I thought I should let you know, since the moderator at APD won't let us post anything about the Blabyrinth. Basically, all the old timers are there, and we have been having some good topics, although it is rather slow compared to APD. So anyway...

That is interesting what you say about your APD being no anxiety, just fear. Mine is transforming to that. In high school, it was all anxiety, shit, for 9 years it was horrible anxiety, but I kept on pushing myself in to social situations, for 9 freakin years. And now, I won't even attempt anything anymore, I just shy away. I don't go to any family functions, and I don't go anywhere outside the house without a drug. BTW, I am home from school right now, so the next month will probably suck, although I took a few xanax 30 mins ago and they are helping a little. So yeah, I had a bunch of stuff I was supposed to do today, and all I ended up doing was driving past every single place I was supposed to stop at, I just couldn't do it, my fear was too great, but the anxiety is virtually gone from those type of situations.

Sorry I haven't replied to your posts on APD yet, I haven't had enough energy to post anything the past week, and was busy doing my one final for the one class I am going to get credit for last semester...

Concerning prescribed meds, the Zyprexa worked pretty well for me. I have stopped it, though, because it really didn't work that great, and I just don't want to take another one of these long half-life (only 30 hours, but still pretty long) drugs that will only leave me worse off when I have to stop it. Sex drive doesn't matter to me either, I have none, and don't care for any, it is the LEAST of my concerns. However, I like being thin A LOT. I gained 15 lbs on Remeron over the summer and I hated it, so ever since then, I have been trying hard to stay thin. Actually, I just don't eat much at all, because there is way too much fear involved in going to the gym, or even for a run.

Seriously, I don't think drugs are going to cure me or you. The Zyprexa took away some paranoia and ideas of reference, but overall it just sort of sucks. There is an interesting post about personality disorders on the Blanbyrinth, about how they involve the entire scope of the person, and traditional therapy and drug treatments could make these disorders worse. It makes sense. Anyway, I think it is going to take a hell of a lot of positive reinforcement for us to ever feel better. Either we adapt to our surroundings (the shitty option), or we adapt our surroundings to us. I really want to live alone in the mountains some day, something like that would accept us. At home with nature. I am not sure how nature oriented you are, but think about that adaptation thing. I hope I have been of some help, and there is a lot of good info about meds on here if you do decide to try some others. Also, feel free to contact me about my experiences with Wellbutrin, Remeron, Abilify, and Zyprexa.

Tyler

 

in response to jjj

Posted by st@cy on December 16, 2003, at 18:36:32

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder » billym, posted by jjj on December 11, 2003, at 20:44:23

how did you have a relapse?? when i read that i felt very curious and almost envious bc i've been waiting for something like that to happen to me for years. it must have been nice...i really wish i could experience that.

 

re: response to everyone » billym

Posted by Eddie Sylvano on December 17, 2003, at 9:21:01

In reply to re: response to everyone , posted by billym on December 12, 2003, at 20:58:33

> I definitely relate to what you said, Eddie. It is different from social anxiety, but as another poster pointed out, the symptoms greatly overlap with social anxiety.
-----------

I feel like I can identify with you a lot more than I can with most people on the board, problem wise. A couple of curious questions...
Do people often tell you that you speak too softly, mumble, and are hard to understand? I get this a lot, and I'm wondering if it's related to this.
Can you point to any particular causes for your social reservation? I mentioned my father, but it's clear to me that I also owe a lot of my problem to being betrayed by one of the only real (and "best") friends I've ever had (he was secretly seeing my former wife, and married her after she divorced me).

I've always been a shy person, but I was never so reserved until my teens, and it just got worse after that. I'd be interested to hear if you find any medications that help. Really, it's all about inhibitions. Alcohol helps that, but I can't be drunk all the time, nor do I want to. The most transforming drug experience I've ever had for this was LSD, which was just remarkable. Childlike happiness and love of all people. Again, not something you'd want to do for a living, or at all for many people (i.e. don't do this because of my experience, anyone).
Anyway, I hope you find something that helps. It's no fun to live on the sidelines.

 

Being in a relationship with someone who has APD

Posted by tercerero on December 17, 2003, at 9:29:49

In reply to re: response to everyone , posted by billym on December 12, 2003, at 20:58:33

Hey,

I'm Eddie Sylvano's fiance. I don't have the disorder you guys talk about, but Eddie does. Let me tell you, you think it's hard to meet someone, try holding onto them while you struggle with daily interactions. But I assume it's rewarding because he hasn't broken up with me yet.

It's a hard life, and I'm sorry for anyone who has this problem. It's hard for me, too, because it really does hinder just about everything.

I definitely have to watch what I say or else I might find Eddie curled up into a quiet little ball on the bed, staring into space. Sometimes I just want to shout at him because he lets people walk all over him.

Everyone else tells him he's too nice, but I know what the real problem is. It's frustrating because I'm the one who has to call customer service people, stand in line, talk to family, and, essentially, stand up for us. It's tiring to be the outgoing one.

It's also hard in social situations with our friends. Eddie talked about saying stuff and being ignored while others say the same thing and get rewarded, and I've witnessed this. I used to think he was exaggerating, when I first met him, but it's true.

Now it's like I'm his advocate, pointing out what he says to other people, laughing the loudest at his jokes, asking him to repeat what he said so others can hear. It seems to alleviate his social-based fears a lot. Now he ventures out alone in the social world and does much better. He said someone actually apologized to him last night because they were holding up the line in a store. That speaks volumes to me.

It seems a great deal of what you guys speak of stems from low self-esteem. For a long time, Eddie was (implicitly) told that he was worthless. When he expressed joy with something, he was told he was stupid for doing so. He subdued his feelings to draw less attention to himself. Now, here I am, saying stand up for yourself! Tell me how you're feeling! What you say matters! It must come as a shock to him. For thirty years, Eddie shut down, but hopefully it won't take thirty more to open up.

Drugs help a little, I guess, therapy would probably help more, but I think that day-to-day life is hard enough without having to schedule appointments and deal with pharmacies screwing up your prescriptions. I think the best thing is to embrace the relationships you do have and squeeze every bit of joy out of life that you can. And enjoy it, because everyone deserves to feel happiness. Take care of yourself because you deserve it. Alone time helps Eddie tremendously, because when he comes back from it he seems renewed.

Good luck everyone, especially at this time of year when social gatherings are required instead of requested.

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by clubfitter on August 4, 2007, at 20:54:26

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

Billy, this is so briillaintly written...i experience everything you have just described....sexual dysfunction?? what sex? my friends are worried about me?? what friends? such a crippling ridiculours affiction that i have only ever been able to overcome with drug abuse and self medication...that is no longer an option....i feel your pain everyday...god bless and thanks for sharing..i forwarded this post to all family members to help them understand....

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Posted by kelsupreeze on May 22, 2008, at 10:08:50

In reply to Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by billym on December 11, 2003, at 13:36:26

I think I have avoidant personality disorder. I am ok in groups ( sometimes ) but have a huge fear of talking with other people on a one on one basis. I hate walking down the street because i feel people are looking at me.This is to such a degree of fear for me that I sweat and panic like mad if people look. I don't feel that I fit in with other people and I am scared to make friends. I hate getting served at the till in the shopping centre. I feel that people in the shop think I am going to steal something, when I am not.I am 22 years old and have not always felt like this. I am so heartbroken by this, I am even keeping this from my boyfriend. I avoid all social events and I am getting lonelier by the day.
Does anyone else feel this way? I am to scared to go to the doctors- I am not registered with one and I am too scared to do it.
Please help...

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder? » kelsupreeze

Posted by Sigismund on May 27, 2008, at 2:45:54

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder?, posted by kelsupreeze on May 22, 2008, at 10:08:50

Yes, I had/have something like that, except I was a lot better at one-on-one than groups.

I wonder if it is important to find a way to put your current experience of life into words?

I guess you think it is shameful to feel this way?

I am touched when you say you 'feel heartbroken by this' and wonder if you could try to stay close to that feeling.
It sounds like a sane part of you.

You do realise that this world is crazy?
It's not just you, though you feel quite bad, I can see.

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder

Posted by cedar on May 28, 2008, at 15:00:35

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder? » kelsupreeze, posted by Sigismund on May 27, 2008, at 2:45:54

For many years I suffered from what I considered to be just anxiety and depression, with a pretty strong component of social anxiety. After leaving my job a year ago, however, I began to spend more and more time in the house and stopped reaching out to friends entirely, because I basically felt like as an unemployed recluse, I had nothing worth saying to anyone. It really became a downward spiral--more avoidance led to more self-doubt led to more avoidance. If someone asked me what was going on in my life, I would basically mumble and grow visibly uncomfortable and try to change the subject to something else quickly. I am slowly working on getting out more, although I stick to the least intimidating situations possible, and there are still days where I can't face other people. I hope to return to the workforce soon, and think this will be helpful, although extremely challenging at first.

I'm wary of personality disorder labels in general, but I really identify with the AvPD label in way that I don't with other personality disorders.

I've now been on various medications (over 30, and countless combinations) for 13 years (I recently went through 6-month period of clearing out my system of all meds totally recently, which I'm quite proud of, and now take only a small dose of wellbutrin and klonopin, and am slowly withdrawing off the klonopin). While I think it is a personal decision and something you need to decide for yourself, I tend to caution friends who are considering medication for the first time because it can lead to a long and frustrating road ahead.

That said, if you are interested in medication, the best ideas I can think of are adderall (which was incredibly helpful to me but I cannot take anymore because of substance abuse issues, so be careful if you have a history of this), and possibly Nardil. I haven't taken Nardil, but it seems to be a huge help to many people once they get their doctor to agree to an MAOI, and the main side effects I know of, weight gain and sexual dysfunction, do not seem to be concerns of yours.

I don't know where you live, but here in NY there are groups designed for people with general public speaking anxiety and more specifically for social anxiety. I know AvPD is different than social anxiety, but the way these groups work might be helpful (I think it is basically a 12-week program--the first week you sit silently and just observe, the next week you say your name, etc., and build up slowly over the weeks in a supportive group that knows what it feels like to experience discomfort of one kind or another in social settings.) It sounds a bit weird and I can't vouch for the efficacy of it, but it is something I've considered giving a chance (they offer the opportunity to observe a couple of sessions for free before committing.)

This is my first post on Babble, though I've been reading posts for the last few months, so I apologize if this is not helpful or off topic.

Best of luck to you.

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder » cedar

Posted by BrightEyed+Blueberry on June 5, 2008, at 2:34:48

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder, posted by cedar on May 28, 2008, at 15:00:35

I know you said Adderal worked for you but you have concerns/issues with substance abuse...what about Adderal XR? Aren't the extended release formulations of these stimulants supposed to help to avoid abusing (abusing the Adderal?) in some way? Or is it only effective if you take the med properly - for instance, if you break it in half or crush it, it loses its extended release properties, and basically becomes ....basic-release Adderal. And at that point, when its in your face, it's hard not...to swallow...insufflate...over do it--as addiction behaviors take over?

I know some "forward" (or risk-taking?!) -thinking pdocs will prescribe Adderal XR, and probably others in that class, to adults with substance abuse problems-- of stimulants like cocaine and methamphetamine! BEcause through the medical intake, they see many ADD-like symptoms, which I believe is problems in the brain in the prefrontal cortex area, making it difficlut to concentrate, focus, be motivated, be organize, to be self-directing....Maybe they take some brain scans first, to see where the problem areas are (a la the Amen Clinics brain pix), and if they can see its...prefrontal cortex, then that person is a good candidate for a proper, regulated, medical grade stimulant - Adderal XR, Ritalin, Strattera, Focalin, desoxyn even?...etc. etc.?

..instead of street drugs.

Self-medicating behavior has its reasons....

Anyway, I digressed, but I hope you find your way out of the isolation / depression. Maybe you could give an MAOI like NARdil a try - that's the gold standard for Social Anxiety Disorder, as I understand...which seems a close fit to your sitch. And of course its an anti-depressant....Have you thought about starting with ..an MAOI-lite? Like EMSAM? It helped me esp the first 6 weeks go out and do things and it at least kept me from myisolating behavior, and I started to be able to approach projects and concerns that I had been avoiding because of...well, the more and more I avoid, the more daunting an otherwise rather "simple" tasks becomes. Or I avoid issues cuz of fears I can't face, esp if I'm overwhelmed and in a depression. And then the anxiety builds up, from putting something off so long...or there are issues of low self-worth involved with some issues I avoid...ugh, now I need to see my counselor tomorrow. My EMSAM has seemed to sort of "slow down" or gone a bit "dormant".

Well, hope something in here makes sense. I need to sleep - sleep is my personal savior/healer, and sometimes hard to get on EMSAM, unfortunately for me. its phasic though, we will see how things go.

b+B

> For many years I suffered from what I considered to be just anxiety and depression, with a pretty strong component of social anxiety. After leaving my job a year ago, however, I began to spend more and more time in the house and stopped reaching out to friends entirely, because I basically felt like as an unemployed recluse, I had nothing worth saying to anyone. It really became a downward spiral--more avoidance led to more self-doubt led to more avoidance. If someone asked me what was going on in my life, I would basically mumble and grow visibly uncomfortable and try to change the subject to something else quickly. I am slowly working on getting out more, although I stick to the least intimidating situations possible, and there are still days where I can't face other people. I hope to return to the workforce soon, and think this will be helpful, although extremely challenging at first.
>
> I'm wary of personality disorder labels in general, but I really identify with the AvPD label in way that I don't with other personality disorders.
>
> I've now been on various medications (over 30, and countless combinations) for 13 years (I recently went through 6-month period of clearing out my system of all meds totally recently, which I'm quite proud of, and now take only a small dose of wellbutrin and klonopin, and am slowly withdrawing off the klonopin). While I think it is a personal decision and something you need to decide for yourself, I tend to caution friends who are considering medication for the first time because it can lead to a long and frustrating road ahead.
>
> That said, if you are interested in medication, the best ideas I can think of are adderall (which was incredibly helpful to me but I cannot take anymore because of substance abuse issues, so be careful if you have a history of this), and possibly Nardil. I haven't taken Nardil, but it seems to be a huge help to many people once they get their doctor to agree to an MAOI, and the main side effects I know of, weight gain and sexual dysfunction, do not seem to be concerns of yours.
>
> I don't know where you live, but here in NY there are groups designed for people with general public speaking anxiety and more specifically for social anxiety. I know AvPD is different than social anxiety, but the way these groups work might be helpful (I think it is basically a 12-week program--the first week you sit silently and just observe, the next week you say your name, etc., and build up slowly over the weeks in a supportive group that knows what it feels like to experience discomfort of one kind or another in social settings.) It sounds a bit weird and I can't vouch for the efficacy of it, but it is something I've considered giving a chance (they offer the opportunity to observe a couple of sessions for free before committing.)
>
> This is my first post on Babble, though I've been reading posts for the last few months, so I apologize if this is not helpful or off topic.
>
> Best of luck to you.

 

Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder

Posted by cedar on June 7, 2008, at 11:01:11

In reply to Re: Does anyone have Avoidant Personality Disorder » cedar, posted by BrightEyed+Blueberry on June 5, 2008, at 2:34:48

To BrightEyed+Blueberry--

Thanks for your response. I think you're right that adderall xr is supposed to be less addictive than immediate release, but I ended up abusing that too. Interestingly, also, although this doesn't make any sense to me, the XR version made me very nervous, even when taking it as prescribed. Ritalin also makes me nervous, but for some reason regular adderall makes me very calm and focused.

As for MAOI's, I tried Emsam for about 10 weeks. I know that's not really a long enough trial, but I was having so much trouble sleeping, and aside from feeling much better somewhere around weeks 4-5 on it, it did not seem very effective.

I think you are right that Nardil is probably a good choice for me. But unlike the person who started this thread, I am _extremely_ sensitive to weight gain (still trying to lose 30 pounds gained on a series of meds over the last 5 years; I've already lost 20 of them), and to sexual side effects. Right now, I am just trying to keep my meds as simple as possible and get back into the workforce, since once I am actually around people, I tend to do fine. It is really the anxiety leading up to social situations, or to the accomplishment of important tasks, that makes me avoid people and activities much of the time.

Thanks again for your response.


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