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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 252 to 276 of 458. Go back in thread:
Posted by nmk on November 17, 2003, at 8:52:52
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 15, 2003, at 17:19:26
> Hi Nicole,
> ditto on the support. I really appreciate it too. don't know where I'd be without this board.
> Did your doc say that you'll titrate up again on Lam. once you "acclimate" to 100mg?
> Is 100mg enough for you? What else are you on again?
> katia
Hi Katia,Sorry for he delay in responding but weekends are crazy for me with three kids and boatloads of housework and errands. The only chance I have to breathe is here at work.
Anyway, he wants me to stay put at 100mg of Lamictal per day. I have noticed a HUGE improvement with the lower dose. I am no longer agitated, depressed, and can finally sleep. I am also on 50 mg of zoloft and 10 mg of zyprexa at night for sleep. The improvement of my symptoms may be due to the addition of the zyprexa but then again, I don't know.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that this combo will keep me stabilized for awhile since the past few weeks have been a living nightmare.
Keep in touch,
Nicole:))))
Posted by BarbaraCat on November 17, 2003, at 14:36:56
In reply to Not doing too well :-( » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 15:08:37
Dear Katia and Friends,
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. We went to DSL and all our internet connections, email and even our telephone ID and ringer have gone to hell in a handbasket (there's that famous handbasket again). I'll be back but right now it's a major task to catch up on all the emails that have finally made it through to us.One thing that I've been thinking, Katia. Since we're both having our ups and downs re not drinking (OK, OK, I did slip up twice since we last talked and swore never again) I'm wondering about that lack of dopamine and maybe our wiring really requires it. Hence the self-medicating. So, the only thing that comes to mind that isn't directly Parkinson's related it Wellbutrin. Have you ever been on it? I was years ago and it made me kind of agitated, but this was pre-BP dx when I was also on 250mg Zoloft and no mood stabilizer. I'm going to talk to my pdoc about it and read up on it. I don't want anything to cause more anxiety and brooding, but these discomforts might be symptoms of unmasked depression. I also don't want to add another med if I can tolerate things without, but on the other hand, I want my life to progress without the stranglehold of anxiety and other unnecessary challenges.
Another med that comes to mind is a stimulant but I've already gone that route with Ritalin and didn't like the feeling or the insomnia one bit. So, anyone out there, tell me what you think about self-medicating with alcohol and Wellbutrin to medicate the thing that alcohol was medicating. Get my drift? Thanks for all your concern about my absense. I promise, I'll keep in touch better. Love, Barbara
Posted by katia on November 17, 2003, at 14:51:58
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 17, 2003, at 8:52:52
good news for you Nicole!
I'm not doing so well again. It's the pooping out of Lam. after 5-6 days. And then as you've read, I had a big bout of drinking on friday cuz' I couldn't take being me anymore.
hope it steadys on for you at this dose. 100mg solo Lam. isn't cutting the mustard for me.
take care,
katia
Posted by katia on November 17, 2003, at 15:07:29
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on November 17, 2003, at 14:36:56
>
> One thing that I've been thinking, Katia. Since we're both having our ups and downs re not drinking (OK, OK, I did slip up twice since we last talked and swore never again) I'm wondering about that lack of dopamine and maybe our wiring really requires it. Hence the self-medicating. So, the only thing that comes to mind that isn't directly Parkinson's related it Wellbutrin. Have you ever been on it?**Hey Barb,
Good to have you back. I was wondering...
Coincidentally enough, it's been dawning on me that I possibly have a dopamine lack. I asked my pdoc about it and the connection with alcohol - again he didn't really give much of a response, except "you're asking really good questions, I just don't know the answer". And I said "well alcohol is the ONLY thing that's worked for me!". He said, "we're not out of hope yet". - or something like that. Needless to say that night I got smashed to all hell. You'll read about at Substance.
When I was coming off of Serzone, right when I was quite hypo and thinking I was BP, I switched to Wellbutrin - no. take that back. RIGHT before Serzone, coming off of Zoloft, I started WB for two weeks. But I was having terrible terrible w/drawals on Zoloft that I thought it was the WB and stopped it. Then 2 wks. of nothing, I started Serzone. During those two wks. I went hypo and the Serzone sealed it and got worse.
Effexor has the same (maybe just a smudge) of dopamine i think. It's got the norei. and serotonin. I think WB is the big one for dopamine. I too am worried about the stimulating qualities. I'm not sleeping now w/o something just on Lam. I started taking my Neurontin. and seems to work.In regards to the horomone testing, do you know if you have to do it at specific times of the month? Part of my "losing it" has to do with PMS this time of my slip up on Friday. I want to get them tested, but only want to do it once and get an accurate reading. Anyway, if you don't know, don't worry. I'll look it up somewhere.
love,
katia
Posted by Dalilah on November 17, 2003, at 19:00:10
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on November 17, 2003, at 14:36:56
Hi Barbara,
I tried Wellbutrin a couple times and I nearly died. It made me superagitated and then physically ill for days even after I stopped it. Couldn't eat etc. Of course it's different for everyone.I'm sure you've all heard this before, but I think alcohol is the wrong way to go to help yourself. It seems like a temporary fix and supposedly works against your meds. As a former abuser of all drugs, I was not at all able to address any of my Bipolar problems til I was off it for like a year.
-Dalilah
> Dear Katia and Friends,
> Sorry I haven't posted in a while. We went to DSL and all our internet connections, email and even our telephone ID and ringer have gone to hell in a handbasket (there's that famous handbasket again). I'll be back but right now it's a major task to catch up on all the emails that have finally made it through to us.
>
> One thing that I've been thinking, Katia. Since we're both having our ups and downs re not drinking (OK, OK, I did slip up twice since we last talked and swore never again) I'm wondering about that lack of dopamine and maybe our wiring really requires it. Hence the self-medicating. So, the only thing that comes to mind that isn't directly Parkinson's related it Wellbutrin. Have you ever been on it? I was years ago and it made me kind of agitated, but this was pre-BP dx when I was also on 250mg Zoloft and no mood stabilizer. I'm going to talk to my pdoc about it and read up on it. I don't want anything to cause more anxiety and brooding, but these discomforts might be symptoms of unmasked depression. I also don't want to add another med if I can tolerate things without, but on the other hand, I want my life to progress without the stranglehold of anxiety and other unnecessary challenges.
>
> Another med that comes to mind is a stimulant but I've already gone that route with Ritalin and didn't like the feeling or the insomnia one bit. So, anyone out there, tell me what you think about self-medicating with alcohol and Wellbutrin to medicate the thing that alcohol was medicating. Get my drift? Thanks for all your concern about my absense. I promise, I'll keep in touch better. Love, Barbara
Posted by poop'd-out on November 18, 2003, at 2:51:33
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on November 17, 2003, at 14:36:56
>
> Another med that comes to mind is a stimulant but I've already gone that route with Ritalin and didn't like the feeling or the insomnia one bit. So, anyone out there, tell me what you think about self-medicating with alcohol and Wellbutrin to medicate the thing that alcohol was medicating. Get my drift? Thanks for all your concern about my absense. I promise, I'll keep in touch better. Love, Barbara
Hi Barb,I agree wholeheartedly with what Dalilah said(about the alcohol and the Wellbutrin). I too used for many years, no fun at all!! Initially, it really helped especially the pain killers but what happened is it stopped working and not only that but I was 100x worse off than I was to begin with.
That's how it was for me anyways, and believe me if it still worked I would be back doing it in a split second. Alas, it does not. My depression still sucks and have yet to find the right combo, but now I have the ability and desire to keep searching rather than trying to mask it up. I still do smoke like a fiend and drink coffee like mad but what can I say.
I also want to add that even on my most horrible, terrible bad days(after 6 years), it never even crosses my mind to drink or use. I actually didn't realize this until after reading some of yours and Katia's posts. Thank you for that! It did take some time to get there =)
My situation may be entirely different from yours, I just drank and used to hide from life, and in many ways still do. Now, I am pushed and forced to face it since I have nowhere else to go, I guess, a good thing.
Please, please don't take this as a you need to quit drinking sermon, I just truly wanted to share my experience with you as you have shared yours with me.
As for the Wellbutrin, I gave it a good trial and I was on mood stabilizers at the time. I never got past the anger, irritability thing with it though. As for dopamine most of the alzheimers drugs affect that. I did try one briefly, they had a patch out, I think it was desyrel?
Take care.
Beth
OH PS When I get anxiety, I pop a couple of rolaids and very strangely it seems to take the edge off it. I never think it is going to work and it always does to some extent. I have told others with anxiety about it and it helped them too! They just seem to have the right amount of calcium/mag to calm the nerves a bit. I urge you to try it. Let me know = )
Posted by nmk on November 18, 2003, at 9:29:03
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 17, 2003, at 14:51:58
> > I'm not doing so well again. It's the pooping out of Lam. after 5-6 days. And then as you've read, I had a big bout of drinking on friday cuz' I couldn't take being me anymore.
> hope it steadys on for you at this dose. 100mg solo Lam. isn't cutting the mustard for me.
> take care,
> katia
Katia,I am hoping today is a better day for you. How much Lam are you up too? It is a frustrating process because of the slow titration. Remember, many folks need to reach at least 250 mg to have any therapeutic effects and some go much higher. I just couldn't deal with the severe insomnia. Things are stable with me but I have learned never to get my hopes up.
You had mentioned the PMS thing and I can totally related since my BP is ruled by the fluctuation in hormones. Typically, I feel "normal" during the first two weeks of my cycle (which is where i am now, and then I crash the last two weeks until my little friend shows up. The hormone testing is tricky because your levels change daily. I will see with the next cycle if 100 mg of Lam will do the trick during the luteal phase or if I need to go higher during that time.
I hope you feel better...please let me know.
Nicole:))
Posted by MamaCindy2000 on November 18, 2003, at 10:20:25
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( Longer than I meant! » BarbaraCat, posted by poop'd-out on November 18, 2003, at 2:51:33
Posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:05:57
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-(, posted by Dalilah on November 17, 2003, at 19:00:10
Hi Dalilah,
yeah, unfortunately what you say is correct about stopping the substances. and unfortunately, it's not so easy to just quit just because we know this.
I'm trying my best. But it's a bit of a catch 22 for me. I stopped for five weeks, yet I still haven't found the right medication combo and so I'm feeling awful without the drinking and without the right med combo - so after five weeks of barely hanging on I reached for something that would make life bearable and suicide not an option. I'm hoping to stop again. I'm taking one day at a time. I realize it complicates things in the med dept. and makes things not so clear and evident about what's working and what's not. the one thing sobriety has told me is I'm way more depressed than I thought. And I'm trying my best in the face of all this as well, I work in a restaurant where wine is EVERYWHERE and I"m constantly being offered it. And no, I can't change jobs now. I can't do anything else that pays this much, that is part-time at night, and is fairly easy in the sense that I'm like my own boss and I go to work and it's over. Nothing to take home, no one to really report to, etc...There are no other options at the moment.I don't think it's hopeless to find the right med combo even if I slip up like this occasionally. I'm as good as I've ever been and as aware as ever about this problem.
why did it take a year of sobriety to figure/sort out your bipolar med regime? Just the normal "trial and error" endless nightmare? I've been on this road for 18 months. we're almost there I hope.
Can you expand on what happened in your awareness when you were sober for a long period of time? Did you, like me, understand that your "illness" is worse than you thought b/c it was being masked? What else did you discover? I need to hear stuff like this to help support me in choosing sobriety.
thanks.
Katia
> I'm sure you've all heard this before, but I think alcohol is the wrong way to go to help yourself. It seems like a temporary fix and supposedly works against your meds. As a former abuser of all drugs, I was not at all able to address any of my Bipolar problems til I was off it for like a year.
> -Dalilah
>
>
>
>
> > Dear Katia and Friends,
> > Sorry I haven't posted in a while. We went to DSL and all our internet connections, email and even our telephone ID and ringer have gone to hell in a handbasket (there's that famous handbasket again). I'll be back but right now it's a major task to catch up on all the emails that have finally made it through to us.
> >
> > One thing that I've been thinking, Katia. Since we're both having our ups and downs re not drinking (OK, OK, I did slip up twice since we last talked and swore never again) I'm wondering about that lack of dopamine and maybe our wiring really requires it. Hence the self-medicating. So, the only thing that comes to mind that isn't directly Parkinson's related it Wellbutrin. Have you ever been on it? I was years ago and it made me kind of agitated, but this was pre-BP dx when I was also on 250mg Zoloft and no mood stabilizer. I'm going to talk to my pdoc about it and read up on it. I don't want anything to cause more anxiety and brooding, but these discomforts might be symptoms of unmasked depression. I also don't want to add another med if I can tolerate things without, but on the other hand, I want my life to progress without the stranglehold of anxiety and other unnecessary challenges.
> >
> > Another med that comes to mind is a stimulant but I've already gone that route with Ritalin and didn't like the feeling or the insomnia one bit. So, anyone out there, tell me what you think about self-medicating with alcohol and Wellbutrin to medicate the thing that alcohol was medicating. Get my drift? Thanks for all your concern about my absense. I promise, I'll keep in touch better. Love, Barbara
>
>
Posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:24:16
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 18, 2003, at 9:29:03
> I am hoping today is a better day for you.
**Hi Nicole,
Today is a better day, thanks very much. Don't know what happened. I had three glasses of wine at work last night, one cig, and 600mg of Neurontin for sleep. Slept 9 hours; and just feel relaxed and calm today. I'm hoping today's the day, I stop drinking again. It's so touch and go.
I'm still at 100mg of Lam. on thursday I go to 150mg. How can I tell if I need a hormonal med regime? When is the best time to check hormone levels? I read somewhere that if PMS lasts more than one week to 10 days, then something else is going on. i'm like you where I have two weeks of no PMS and then two weeks of. My best week of the month is just after my period. But then again, it really doesn't make sense, since I can have bad bouts anytime during the month.>>Remember, many folks need to reach at least 250 mg to have any therapeutic effects and some go much higher. I just couldn't deal with the severe insomnia.
**These "many folks" - are they on other meds in conjunction with Lam? I don't think Lam. will do it solo. Next visit, I think we'll add Lithium. I'm just trying to decide whether i want to start with Li.Orotate, or the normal Li. Do you know anything about Li. Orotate (Serenity)? I've heard positive experiences and negative ones. My hesitation is, I'm sick of trial and error and I have a feeling that's what that will do for me - be just another trial and frustrating error to only lead me to the Li. Carbonate.
The other thing I've been thinking and hearing about is how thyroid meds are helpful for rapid cyclers who don't happen to have a low/high thyroid, it's just that they work. (probably along the same enigmatic lines of antiseizures working as mood stabilizers).
I wish I had a doctor who took more initiative in thinking about things like, thyroid meds, hormones, etc. He's such a dud when it comes to even responding to my ideas. What can I do? There are not many available pdocs in the area and it's probably best to stay with one who's tracked me for a few months already with different meds and mood charting. It's just frustrating as we all know to pay such big bucks to what feels like slow, dim, not too creative, holistic or innovative in his thinking. just following the text book rules. Perhaps I don't give him enough credit. There are probably a lot of unspokenness about his logic that comes from years of study that I'm just not seeing. I hope so anyway....
Maybe I'll try 9g of fish oil, like Barb suggests.
katia
Posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:36:20
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( Longer than I meant! » BarbaraCat, posted by poop'd-out on November 18, 2003, at 2:51:33
> I also want to add that even on my most horrible, terrible bad days(after 6 years), it never even crosses my mind to drink or use. I actually didn't realize this until after reading some of yours and Katia's posts. Thank you for that! It did take some time to get there =)
Hi Beth!
** how long did it take you to get there? I had glimpses of that in my five weeks of sobriety (like I knew that I didn't have the option of "using"), but something just clicked and my mind opened again to the fact that I COULD DRINK and ease this pain.> My situation may be entirely different from yours, I just drank and used to hide from life, and in many ways still do. Now, I am pushed and forced to face it since I have nowhere else to go, I guess, a good thing.
**Boy, how familiar is that one? The sad thing is for me, I drank and hid away and didn't even realize that I was hiding from life. The excuse, in retrospect, was, "I just need some down time, I"m going thru' something, a lot of dark stuff is coming up in me (as tho'I was "healing and processing" something) when in reality, it was DEPRESSION!!! Duh! It didn't occur to me to get help or acknowledge, or rather didn't dawn on me that i was suffering from depression/bipolar. I just thought it was circumstantial and I"ll be better soon or that this was just the way life was. It's so good to be aware of that masking and hiding away. it shifts everything. I just wish my brother would wake up to it. At least someone in my family (me) has woken up.
> Please, please don't take this as a you need to quit drinking sermon, I just truly wanted to share my experience with you as you have shared yours with me.**I need stories like this, thanks.
> I did try one briefly, they had a patch out, I think it was desyrel?
**Did it work? What meds are you on now? How old are you? What is your dx? How did you stop using substances????
warmly,
katia
Posted by Dalilah on November 18, 2003, at 23:14:10
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( » Dalilah, posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:05:57
Hi Katia,
I hope I didn't sound too judgemental. Believe me, I have been exactly where you are, working in restaurants and bars. And believe me I know how hard it is to quit. I tried so many times. Finally I ended up feeling so bad I ended up going to some of those anonymous programs and it helped. It's been over six years now. Amazing.
I know not everyone can do it and not everyone needs to. I did need to.And to answer your second question, I did not even realize I had depression until I stopped. Just like you said - when I stop I realize how depressed I am. Well I was so depressed I couldn't get out of bed. This wasn't til I had like 3 years sober and my body was coming out of the alcohol induced fog.
Then I was diagnosed with depression and eventually bipolar. Then came the med game, which you know about. I just know that drugs and alcohol will upset the delicate balance of my body's chemistry. Plus I have no desire to use them. I can't even drink caffiene. That's just the way it is with my brain.
Once again, it may be entirely fine if you drink ocassionally. I don't want to preach.
-Dalilah
Posted by nmk on November 19, 2003, at 10:59:59
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:24:16
> How can I tell if I need a hormonal med regime? When is the best time to check hormone levels? I read somewhere that if PMS lasts more than one week to 10 days, then something else is going on. i'm like you where I have two weeks of no PMS and then two weeks of. My best week of the month is just after my period. But then again, it really doesn't make sense, since I can have bad bouts anytime during the month.
*I don't think that there is any ideal time to do the hormonal testing since levels change on a daily basis. Sounds like we have similar patterns...two weeks good, two weeks bad, with some bumps during the good weeks. I am very sensitive to any hormonal flucuations and my fear is that I will have to endure this until menopause is over (I am 39). I have an excellent book for you to check out called "Women's Moods" by Deborah Sichel. Here is the amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380728524/qid=1069260238/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3175632-0403835?v=glance&s=books
>
> >>> **These "many folks" - are they on other meds in conjunction with Lam? I don't think Lam. will do it solo.*From all of the postings and articles I have been reading, the Lam needs to be supplemented with either a low dose AD or another mood stabilizer. You may want to continue to titrate up as far as you can go before adding the Lithium.
> The other thing I've been thinking and hearing about is how thyroid meds are helpful for rapid cyclers who don't happen to have a low/high thyroid, it's just that they work. (probably along the same enigmatic lines of antiseizures working as mood stabilizers).*I have mixed feelings about this one. I know it helps many but did not work for me. After the birth of my boy two years ago, I had borderline low thyroid and was put on Synthroid. It seemed to help for a month or so but then pooped out.
> I wish I had a doctor who took more initiative in thinking about things like, thyroid meds, hormones, etc. He's such a dud when it comes to even responding to my ideas. What can I do?*Can you find a psychiatrist whose area of expertise is mood disorders in women? In this long road to recovery, I have found that I have to be my own advocate and remain very proactive in my treatment. Initially, I was counting on my pdoc for all of the answers and would take whatever he prescribed without much question. I have learned to be a little more cautious, question more, and bone up on the research. Granted, this is tough to do when you are in the midst of a depression when all you want to do is curl up in bed. Oh, since this mess all started, I have been charting my moods on a daily basis. I just print out a monthly calendar and list daily moods and any med changes. This helps when I see the pdoc.
>>>There are not many available pdocs in the area and it's probably best to stay with one who's tracked me for a few months already with different meds and mood charting.Where do you live? If you are at all dissatisfied, try and seek out another opinion even if it means traveling a bit. Please don't settle for care that you don't think is adequate.
I hope things are still looking up for you today!!
Sincerely,
Nicole:))))
Posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 11:33:37
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 19, 2003, at 10:59:59
Hi all--I hope you ALL are well.
It's interesting to hear all of your stories. I haven't been keeping up like I used to.
Katia--some things re: med changes, additions struck me....
I really agree with the advice (i forget who gave it now) to get the Lam at the full (normally therapeutic) dose, which as I understand it for Bipolars is 200mg. If you are not showing signs of rashes, you can go up more quickly past 100mg. I went up every week once i hit 100mg, increasing 50mg until I hit 200mg, as part of the clinical trial I participated in. My doctor, who is a researcher, claims that during all of the clinical trials for Lamictal in BP depressions, nothing over 200mg seemed to change the results. I'm sure there's some give or take in the dosing (maybe some need 250 or 150mg). But my doc was adimant about it. So I believed him, maybe blindly, who knows...But the trileptal add-on has really smoothed me out for now.
As for the fish oil...that's also tricky. I've kept up with the clinical trials on this, too. I'm not an expert, mind you, so I don't want to seem like miss know-it-all. According to the trials, though, it seemed that over 3g of fish oil sometimes caused a NEGATIVE result! (there's lots of fumbling with control groups and such, so it's hard to tell how much stock to put into research). But it seemed that the groups who took 1-2g of fish oil over a LONG period of time did the best. So it's a long term thing, not an immediate relief type thing. I've even heard that it may take up to a year to see the results. But it's a good idea for your health in general, and it makes your skin and nails nice anyway. Why not try it? It's low risk. But to avoid the fishy burps and smell, you might start with 1-2g (IMHO). I just use the store brand stuff. It's cheap, and i just don't believe the jibber-jabber about toxicity of store brands. I take 2g right now. Apparently, the cod liver oil doesn't contain the Omega 3's in the same amounts as the normal supplements. Go to psycheducation.org for more info. It's interesting. It may even help the PMS irritability.
And you've heard me preach before, and Barb-cat's opinions on the Li Orotate. Frankly, you should really go with the real deal first, as unpalatable as it may seem. It's the tried and true. And I do personally feel that Li Orotate is further out on the decision tree. The gold standards are gold standards for reasons, and they are all worth a try before the alternative, trendy new alternative stuff.
Ok--enough from me. Sorry to seem preachy about meds. Please know that you always have my support...med trials, and trials and tribulations of life.
hugs and support,
Katy
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:19:24
In reply to Re: Hey Katia, posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 11:33:37
> Hi all--I hope you ALL are well.
**Ditto to all.
I am at 100mg now and on Thursday, Im going up to 125mg for a week, then 150mg and see how I do. This may just be a side effect of lam. but I'm more elevated good (at first) and mixed like/anxious can't sit still, need sleeping pills...maybe, I too, need Li. to smooth it out. As Nicole and you said, I'll get to the therapeutic dose first on Lam. and see what happens.As for the fish oil, I've been taking 1-2g for over a year and just recently (past three months) been taking a good quality molecularly distilled(little or no mercury) fish oil of 3g per day. again, don't know if it's adding any lift at all. Maybe i'll try going higher just to see. As for me, I do believe that getting a good quality fish oil is TRES IMPORTANT! Injesting that much fish oil daily and having it be toxic with mercury? There have been tests regarding this - can't remember where - but it's a real thing this mercury toxicity. Maybe I'll try and find some info.
> And you've heard me preach before, and Barb-cat's opinions on the Li Orotate. Frankly, you should really go with the real deal first, as unpalatable as it may seem. It's the tried and true. And I do personally feel that Li Orotate is further out on the decision tree. The gold standards are gold standards for reasons, and they are all worth a try before the alternative, trendy new alternative stuff.
**Yeah, I'm kinda feeling this way too. My one concern is this: If I develop hypothyroid on Lithium, does it stop after I discontinue Li.? Anyone know this answer?
> Ok--enough from me. Sorry to seem preachy about meds. Please know that you always have my support...med trials, and trials and tribulations of life.
**You're not preachy at all. I appreciate your time and advice and thoughts.
How're you doing?
warmly,
Katia
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:25:11
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 19, 2003, at 10:59:59
Hi Nicole,
I like the special effects at the end of your name..
I, like you, take the initiative and found out my own info and then take it doc. When I was looking for a doctor, it took me ages to find one that is not fully booked and it took me two months to get into to see this one. I live in the Bay area, so I would've assumed that there are lots of doctors. At this point, continuity is probably more important than trying to find another docotor that I like. It's not that I don't like this one, I just wish he'd think outside the box a little more. Thank god I've got a brain on me though and think about things and inquire.I also do the mood charting - have done for about four months now or more.
Hope things are good for you.
take care,
Katia
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:36:59
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-(, posted by Dalilah on November 18, 2003, at 23:14:10
Hi Dalilah,
> I hope I didn't sound too judgemental. I know not everyone can do it and not everyone needs to. I did need to.
**NOT AT ALL. As I said in my last post, I appreciate the stories and feedback.
> And to answer your second question, I did not even realize I had depression until I stopped. Just like you said - when I stop I realize how depressed I am. Well I was so depressed I couldn't get out of bed. This wasn't til I had like 3 years sober and my body was coming out of the alcohol induced fog.**I wouldn't call my experiences and the way I've lived in an alcohol induced fog. I don't know what that entailed for you (like how much did you drink?). I've always tried to keep it in check and it's always been a battle between being healthy and falling prey to drinking. And the drinking for me was a last resort. During the past four years, I've also been in therapy and grad school, doing lots of yoga/meditating - developing a strong spiritual awareness. So through this, it lessened - my abuse. But still I remained depressed and kept thinking it was "dark" stuff i needed to process - things were stirring up in me i thought. But that's bollocks b/c it went on for years and it took a major major crisis last summer for me to wake up to it all. That's when I began my journey w/ antidepressants for a year and not working for me, I got a bipolar dx in June. Throughout the years (esp. this year), I go weeks without drinking, (like now), but then can't hang on anymore and slip up. For me, it's not all or nothing in regards to me not being able to find the right med combo because I'm so abstinent or moderate now. I've got so much awareness around it, it's hard to hide behind it anymore. I know it'd be best to stop altogether and all I can say is today I'm sober. one day at a time with a goal as not to drink ever.
I've got a delicate and sensitive constitution too - (no wonder - everything else is sensitive!). I'm similar to you in that regard.
How old are you?
warm regards,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 15:45:44
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:25:11
Hey Katia--
I'm doing ok--some days blah and bored, others doing well. I'm working on my artwork again. Still on the same meds. I've managed to keep my appetite for the past few weeks, and sleep pretty well (Yay-hoooo!!).
I've started an exercise routine of walking 40 minutes in the morning right after I wake. (Then I sit down and have a cappucino and 2 cigarettes--ha-ha!!). It seems to help my mood for sure.
Hmmm. Maybe I should be more cautious about the fish oil business. I'll have to ask my pdoc if he knows about a better brand. In general, though, I'm just not that bothered by stuff like chemicals in my foods....sheesh! I'm a smoker, and I love hot dogs. But I suppose every little bit of health counts, too.
your babble pal,
Katy
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 17:54:18
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb?, posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 15:45:44
Hi Katy,
Nordic Naturals is what I use. Barbara uses a certain type of brand. I know she's sick to death of repeating herself, but I can't remember which one that is. It's impossible to retrieve recently passed posts - only ones that are like 18 months old. Don't really know why. so I would do a search for you (and me), but can't.Didn't know you smoked? I only do when I drink (and only sometimes then). How much a day?
Hot dogs eh? I love sausages. Everyone's got their vice and no one can be perfect!
Sounds like the Trileptal and lam. are doing it for you! Once when I wrote "bored" on my mood chart, my doctor said "yes, that's what I want to see - that means things are improving. That's what most people experience in their lives occasionally".
ta-
Katia
Posted by poop'd-out on November 20, 2003, at 3:05:57
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( Longer than I meant! » poop'd-out, posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:36:20
OH my God!! I just wrote you a long response and then my computer decided it had performed an illegal operation, and lost it all!! I will try again.
> Hi Beth!
> ** how long did it take you to get there? I had glimpses of that in my five weeks of sobriety (like I knew that I didn't have the option of "using"), but something just clicked and my mind opened again to the fact that I COULD DRINK and ease this pain.
>
I would say about 2-3 years, but it took about 9 months for the compulsion to leave me entirely. It was awful. Like you said, it just wasn't an option anymore. Using was just as bad so this way I had a slight chance that things might get better, and eventually they did!!
> **Boy, how familiar is that one? The sad thing is for me, I drank and hid away and didn't even realize that I was hiding from life. The excuse, in retrospect, was, "I just need some down time, I"m going thru' something, a lot of dark stuff is coming up in me (as tho'I was "healing and processing" something) when in reality, it was DEPRESSION!!! Duh! It didn't occur to me to get help or acknowledge, or rather didn't dawn on me that i was suffering from depression/bipolar. I just thought it was circumstantial and I"ll be better soon or that this was just the way life was. It's so good to be aware of that masking and hiding away. it shifts everything. I just wish my brother would wake up to it. At least someone in my family (me) has woken up.
I always knew that I had depression, I have had it since childhood. I actually was self-medicating to control my depression, and for a while it worked. I finally felt like a normal functioning human being, probably for the first time in my life. This was more the pain-killers than the alcohol, although there was plenty of that too. The sad thing is I wasn't using to get high, just to feel normal, it was my little secret, I told no one about the pills. The alcohol they saw!!Then the very thing that I thought had saved my life was slowly killing me. I knew it too. I just thought that if I kept trying and trying that eventually I would recover that feeling that had saved me initially. I am very stubborn, and kept trying to get it back for at least ten years. During this time I suffered from extreme rage, anxiety, paranoia, withdrawals every time I couldn't find more pills. Not fun.
>
> > I did try one briefly, they had a patch out, I think it was desyrel?
>
It is not desyrel, can't remember what that is. The drug is called deprenyl(selegiline) it is used to treat alzheimers patients. There is alot of information on PB if you type in a search.
> **Did it work?I took it quite some time ago. I guess not since I no longer take it. I would definitely do a search and see how others have done on it, we all have very different chemistries.
>What meds are you on now?
Tegretol, Neurontin, Zoloft has been my mainstay cocktail for a few years now. I guess that I have been fearful to change it. It keeps me from completely losing it but am still down quite a bit.
Have just started Lamictal 75mg for about a month now, I am still waiting for the miracle...?>How old are you?
36, but still very much a child.
>What is your dx?
My doc and I have landed on BPII for the time being with my ups more the irritability, rage thing, and mostly depressed. Bummer I want the good mania =)
Mostly because I react so horribly to AD's when taken alone.>How did you stop using substances????
Short answer: I had to.
I wasn't living anymore, all I thought about was where my next pill was coming from, and that was my life. That is what I lived for, if you can call that living.
I think it is good that you are aware of what you are doing, that is a step in the right direction.
But, in the end, only you can decide what's right for you.I have shared some of my experiences, and like they say, take what you need and leave the rest.
You take care Sweetie!
Beth
P.S. I will be happy to discuss this topic any time with you, any questions you have and will look for you on the other board so we don't get in trouble, Kay?
Posted by fluffy on November 20, 2003, at 13:26:02
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » fluffy, posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 17:54:18
Hi Katia--
Nordic Naturals...I'll have to write that down. I think I remember Barb-cat taking the cod liver oil stuff, and I read that it doesn't really have the punch of Omega threes that other supplements have. I'd rather not take something that says "cod liver oil" anyway...blechh!!
I smoke about half a pack a day...two morning cigs, two afternoon ones, and probably 4 evening ones. I have a love-hate relationship with them. Mostly I hate when I have to go to the store to buy them. What a waste. I successfully quit for 6 months recently..not ONE cigarette for 6 months. I was so good, but when the shit hit the fan, I reached for my old pal.
I guess the trileptal and Lamictal are working. I've only had some temporary swings into mild depression since I've been on it. But even the mild bits really suck. Like today, I've been fighting off crying, and last night I cried myself to sleep. You know--feeling lonely, like no one will care about me, or does care about me. I guess I should watch it, b/c this is how the severe depressions set in on me. Subtle, creeping in with crying spells and little appetite. (last night, I could barely fix dinner.) I just wanted to lay around and listen to Joy Division and feel sorry for myself.
I have a hard time understanding when to introduce a new drug, or just tough out a couple of bad days/weeks. Which is more uncomfortable?
Anyway--I hope you are hanging in there. Good to hear from you. Rock on processed meat eaters!
Katy
Posted by katia on November 20, 2003, at 19:20:42
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb?, posted by fluffy on November 20, 2003, at 13:26:02
Hi Katy,
I did my share of smoking and drinking last night...it's this pms in combo with still feeling depressed. I hate it and am sick of it. No inspiration at all - it sucks. And I should be writing now.> I have a hard time understanding when to introduce a new drug, or just tough out a couple of bad days/weeks. Which is more uncomfortable?
*I'd have to say, stick with awhile longer. Sometimes it takes time to set in.
Hope things look better for you.
-katia
Posted by katia on November 23, 2003, at 16:30:19
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb?, posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 15:45:44
Hi Katy,
I was "perusing" the letters over at bipolar world and think I came across one of yours. I didn't realize it until after I'd thought about copying that letter and giving you the link in regards to fish oil.
http://www.mddaboston.org/lect060999.html
BUT, then I realized it was your letter over there!
how funny.
I'm going to give fish oil a try. Come to think of it, when I first started on that diet from the metabolic nutritionist, i read the quantity of fish oil I have to take wrong and was taking 9gs. a day instead of 3. I remember (now in enlightening retrospect) that I felt so much better during that brief time.
I'm going to try and find Barb's recommendation post of fish oil and buy some.
take care,
katia
Posted by fluffy on November 24, 2003, at 8:19:20
In reply to bipolar world » fluffy, posted by katia on November 23, 2003, at 16:30:19
Hi Katia--
Indeed, I did write a letter to Dr. Phelps. I was so glad he replied. Sometimes I wish he was MY doctor. I guess his information seems so practical and he doesn't seem too arrogant to entertain that other un-tested methods can work on BP disorder. In fact, my therapist gave me one of those sunrizer alarm clocks to try out. I don't know if it helps yet. Time will tell. His site (psycheducation.org) is one that i visit over and over for new and old information.
So I'm not sure what's been up with my moods lately. over the past few days, I've had trouble getting out of bed, and falling asleep WAAY too early. BUT I've also had chills and weakness, and I've had a stabbing pain in my side (transient). So it may be kidney probs...I've had a stone before, and it felt like this before I had the excruciating, doubled over pain. I may go to an internal medicine doctor just to get it checked out, at the risk of looking like a hypochondriac. (do you do that? I sometimes think I have illnesses when I'm depressed or anxious, but then it turns out to be nothing. Embarassing.)
So did you take 3g of fish oil and felt better? Or 9g? I didn't quite catch that. How is everything going with you? Besides the past few days, I've been ok. Just a bit down.
take care!
Katy
Posted by ginger C on November 24, 2003, at 10:32:15
In reply to Re: bipolar world, posted by fluffy on November 24, 2003, at 8:19:20
I have been looking at your posts and I am interested in knowing what Bipolar World is. Is it another site and how do I get there?
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