![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 56 to 80 of 458. Go back in thread:
Posted by Chicklet on September 27, 2003, at 11:43:45
In reply to Re: Katy/Fluffy- we MUST talk!! Lam/Tri/Hydroco! , posted by fluffy on September 27, 2003, at 11:31:02
But I'm wondering if a thread of Katia Katy and karen might be a little confoooosin! Maybe you guys should call me Bean or something.
I WAS on Vicodin...briefly. But it was nice. >
I wish we could get together too! I'm in CT. Seems like no one's a New Englander around here!Actually I'd like to exchange emails (if you don't want o, that's fine...)- I know if you saw what I wrote to Barbara but I really really want to stop using this site.
Damnit you guys sucked me back in!
Grr.
Kidding.
I'll write more before your appt.
Damn doc hasn't called back and I'm still awake after 6 hours of sleep in 3 nights. Not manic. but boy howdy IF I swung up EVER, i'd be in real danger right now. That's why my doc is VERY conscious of sleep patterns.
Now I just feel shaky as hell and my head feels stuffed with s'mores...
Hi Chicklet--
>
> Yes--let's keep in touch re: the Trileptal/Lamictal combo. Have you just started it? Or has it been working for you for some time? I see my doc this monday. I'm sure he'll approve my decision tree. He helped me greatly with information on the drugs out there. He is truly an angel when it comes to psychiatrists!
>
> Did I also see that you are taking Vicodin?? Hmmm. If so, I'm seriously not sure about that business. Did your psychiatrist prescribe that?
>
> But addiction is addiction, right? I think it's funny, b/c in a way, I'm "addicted" to Lamictal, in that I can't seem to sustain the AD effect unless I up the dose. Isn't that "addiction"?
>
> Anyway--I truly wish we could all just have lunch or an evening at a coffee shop and just talk, talk, talk. Such profound things written here on this board beyond just meds.
>
> Stick with us, Chicklet! We won't go.
>
> Katy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 13:27:26
In reply to Arctic birds » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 27, 2003, at 3:09:20
Oh, Katia, I hear you loud and clear. The arctic birds are a wonderful and beautiful analogy. But first, let's talk meds so we can hopefully stay here in Psych Babble where I much prefer it. Yes, you will stabilize on Lamictal. It's a wonder drug, you'll come to see. It sounds like you're just now beginning to feel it's effects which, for me, has been a lightening of spirit, a step up to a higher frequency, a shooing away the dark heavy clouds. I can see how contracted and dense I was just two years ago. I felt like a barely human black hole. I even realized it at the time, but couldn't seem to break out of that murk. I was so traumatized and my brain wasn't able to connect or make sense of it. I was also very sick with fibromyalgia and didn't have the energy for anything, much less summoning a 'Never give up! Never surrender!' attitude (thank you, Galaxy Quest). Also, I was still feeling the effects of a long history of drinking wine to de-stress, even though I wasn't drinking anymore (I've since fallen on and off that wagon, as we know).
Lithium helped to stop the ongoing mixed states depressions but I was still feeling bad and sad and very discouraged. Lamictal parted the clouds so that I could see the sun again and want to find a way to keep it shining. I climbed out on my own willpower and for that I'm very proud of myself. But without Lamictal, I wonder how it would've gone because I was quickly losing the will to live. I had been on so many meds for so long and was on my last ditch effort. Oh, I probably would have rallied one way or the other, only to sink again. It was just getting too hard and despite my best eforts I couldn't sustain my health or peace of mind. I think this sums it up the best for me: Lamictal gave me a boost up and the support to maintain that lightness of spirit within which is necessary to hear it's guidance. Lam opened up the gates to a renewed will to survive that keeps me choosing the path of Life, whatever it takes, no matter how many times I stray off it. Lam has the least side effects of any med I've been on (as long as you go tortuously slow on the ramp up). You'll even out to your best level even if that dose goes up and down based on your chemistry's needs. You'll know when you need more or less and so will your friends. New dosage effects act quickly, at least for me, once you reach a therapeutic level and the s/e aren't so jangly as with lower levels. But it seems to stay put for the most part. Unfortunately, it doesn't do all this on it's own and I need Lithium to make it work, but so be it and thank you modern chemistry.
I hate to admit this, but you know and I know that alcohol abuse clouds us and locks in that denseness, a sickness of spirit and a sense of weakness and shame the next day, which is really hindering our Good Fight. No amount of meds can overcome that sludgy energy and we're prey to the hungers of the lower brain and group-hive trance consciousness. No matter how I love the feeling at the time, I pay and pay for it, especially as I get older. I've been able to maintain very moderate drinking. I give myself 3 nights a week to drink no more than 1 drink (and no 16oz. glasses either like before). It was hard at first but now it's pretty easy cause I really appreciate the good feeling that's growing. I hope we continue to support each other in this.
Tribal bellydance is generally based on women's folkloric desert dances of the Berber and other nomadic tribes of upper Africa - Morocco, Tunisia, some Egypt. The dancers usually wear turban-like head coverings, lots of tribal heavy silver jewellry and nomadic coin belts, tatoos and even though it's very sensuous and sinuous dancing, there's absolutely no hint of cabaret. These women would deck you if you tried to stuff bills into their hip scarves. It's always done in an ensemble and rarely as a solo performer. The ensemble is an integral part of the choreograph. Tribal fusion on the other hand blends all this with more, I guess you'd say fantasy, a softer approach which also uses some jazz and some cabaret, and the look is a more a feminine tribal style but never cabaret. The two factions have somewhat a major conflict of interest. I'm so glad you're pursuing this. Now that I'm feeling out of the woods with the fibro I'm really getting into it again and am soon going to start teaching. But I really have to be ready so I don't start and then can't finish, as has been my pattern.
So, back to the arctic birds and to continue with this fascinating topic you introduced. What is this will to survive? Why do some people have it and others don't - you can sense this even in young children. What is so enticing about this existence that we fight for it even when we hate it?
My husband and I had a long talk about all this just this morning. It seems to have to do with courage somehow and the wonderment and memory of the Light as it's juxtaposed against the Dark of our anguish. It takes a certain courage and kick-ass grit to trust in and follow that sliver of Light and we need to doggedly find and remember our bravery. We need to forget those times we reacted from fear and discouragement and weakness, wipe those memories clean like deleting bad files from a computer, and remember those times when we acted with courage and determination and even outrage. We all have those times no matter how insignificant they may seem.
What is it about the life force that keeps us fighting for it? What does it take to extinguish it to the point where a person chooses to stop fighting? At what point does it become not worth it? It seems to have to do with becoming depleted, running out of energy, no fight left, go away and let me sleep. However, we see people all the time in our lives who really don't have it all that bad, aren't the walking wounded. And yet, they're the walking dead with little conscience, little respect for life, energy vampires. Did they ever have that spark? Is it some karmic thing we're all working through at different times in our lives?
For as long as I can remember I've always had a fierce will. I've sometimes used it against myself but I've also used it to survive against some powerful odds. I think a person is born with a strong will, it shows up very early, and it might be easier to access that courage and grit. It might be easier for us with very difficult lives who intimately know the darkness. We long for and recognize the light when we finally see it, and can summon up the survival instinct that you mentioned. But anyone can choose small steps of courage and learn to become courageous. I think it's about practice and willingness - even if it's just willing to be willing. And we all need to be all that in these difficult times. I agree that it's so encouraging that more and more people are questioning and seeking deeper answers. It seems to take adversity to wake people up. It also takes tremendous energy to sustain it. Without energy it's impossible. So, choosing to do whatever it takes to keep our energy level high is a crucial part. But oh, don't we love those substances that leave us feeling like shit for the next few days!
I can see all this so clearly when I'm feeling better, you know? That's why I think it's so important to find and stay on the meds that work for us because they really do let the sun shine in. Love ya, Kitty Katia. - BarbaraCat
I remember now.
>
> What you wrote in the previous post to Katy:
>
> >>You know, we're all dealing with alot of stuff and we all have some days worse than others and moan more sometimes, but jeez, you've at least got to try! Here among my friends on this board, we've all been through hell, but we're at least trying the best we can to do the work, get help, pay for the office visits and meds, come up for air time and time again. Even though we have real bad times of paralysis and rage and stupidity, and even though we sometimes just want to roll over and give up - we don't, and it's damned hard work but we keep on fighting for our lives - and that's what I love about us.
>
> here here to that.
>
> I was in conversation with a friend a day or two ago. She doesn't suffer from depression and was coming to these "revelations" (for a non-depressed person). she was saying stuff like "we didn't choose to come into this world, but yet we find ourselves here and have to deal with it and suffer and whatever....."
> (an aside here) it's always interesting to see people who don't live constantly in a state of despair and existential angst finally start to question these things in a normal frame of mind.
>
> But the conversation continued on, it is trully amazing what we will do to survive. And for what? What drives us to survive? In existential terms, we're born, we suffer, we die. get used to it.
> But what keeps us from committing suicide upon our birth?
> What keeps us from it in the midst of (as we on this board know too well) severe depression? What is behind the notion of hope?
>
> I think it's something stronger than we can cognitively imagine. It's life force.
> There are birds from the Arctic that fly all the way to the Southern hemisphere and endure the most wretched suffering anguished lives simply to find a moment's worth of food to subsist just long enough to do it again. What drives them to endure? When they could just roll over and give up to the angel's above?
> What force drives us? It's beyond cognition. it's somehow instinct.
> It's beautiful. It's life living and surviving in one way or another.
> one arctic bird here signing off.
> Katia
Posted by fluffy on September 27, 2003, at 13:38:33
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 0:36:28
Hi Barb-cat, (Katia, Chicklet, and all)
(don't have time for more posts to all of you!)> Well, I'm feeling better today. It's like the weather - wait and it'll change. Saw Pirates of the Caribbean and it was great. Talk about two different guys - Jack Sparrow and Will Turner. But I'm in love with them both! Guess that's why they call me bipolar.
***God I know, Barb-cat!! I've been feeling really good the past couple of days...maybe "too good"--GASP! (do you sense my sarcasm?--I hate that clinical language!). I think I talked my boyfriend's ear off last night...but boy did we have a great time. We went to a puppet theatre here in Houston--WOW!! It was fantastic.
>
> I like your decision tree idea. So, you've decided to go on tri for sure? You will be our official test pilot. I'm going to stay on lithium and ask for time release. I feel better today and hence feel better about my drugs, but I will be increasing lam slowly up to around 200mg.***I think that's pretty sound, Barbara. The addition of another drug can open up pandora's box, so you have to be really ready and/or disfunctional to do it. Maybe you just need some fine tuning. Pretty sure I'm going to go the Trileptal route unless my doc convinces me to try Depakote instead. (I go back and forth between the two options)
***And yeah--exercise really, really helps my "down" part. So does making sure I'm out with an understanding friend doing something distracting. As long as you're not totally stuck in a major depression. Then EVERYONE is an irritation...all those HAPPY people. I used to want to squash them all and cast spells on them so they'd be as miserable as me. And sometimes, just plain cable TV will do, or staring into space on my couch.
>
> You know, what you're describing about your bipolar starting only after taking SSRI's, if that's what I read correctly, sounds like Bipolar-III or BP-IV. I'm not too familiar with the treatment details since I'm most definitely BP-I,II (or am I?) but I recall that the treatment is somewhat different. So perhaps that's why lithium didn't work for you since it's more a BP-1,II thing. Of course, with all the esoteric stuff we're all taking and all disorders overlapping into the other, who knows what anymore. Don't remember if I asked this, but have you tried mongo doses of fish oil, as in liquid? I do think it's helping me. Makes the cell membranes more fluid.
>
***yeah--it's possible that i'm further down on the "spectrum". But at this point, I don't really care that much about the diagnosis. They don't even know how to treat BPII that well, so Jeez--I hate to know how the clinical trials are going with the other numbers. But I do feel I fit the BPII diagnosis fairly well.***I just started taking 1g of fish oil every day, and now I've gone to 2g. If anything, my nails are beautiful! Like an Asian princess. I think from what I've heard, it take awhile for anyone to feel a difference, and it is subtle. But it's a great beauty secret, eh?
> My vacation was so-so. My husband had hernia surgery and it was too soon, so we came back early. Then we went to a wonderful place on the ocean which was great until another couple joined us. My husband and the guy are friends, but I've always had a problem with the woman. A whiny victim/martyr bitch who complains about everything, is clearly mood challenged and refuses to get help, choosing to blame everyone else constantly, as in all the friggin' time.***Oh--DO I know about this! I think EVERYONE has this problem friend in their life. My therapist and I talk about this a lot b/c sometimes I feel guilty and ashamed that my insecurity and pride takes on such a rhythmic quality (spurred from the inside, rather than other "normal" people, who blame external circumstances for their moods.) Maybe your friend just needs to see a shrink to get herself in check.
> You know, we're all dealing with alot of stuff and we all have some days worse than others and moan more sometimes, but jeez, you've at least got to try! Here among my friends on this board, we've all been through hell, but we're at least trying the best we can to do the work, get help, pay for the office visits and meds, come up for air time and time again. Even though we have real bad times of paralysis and rage and stupidity, and even though we sometimes just want to roll over and give up - we don't, and it's damned hard work but we keep on fighting for our lives - and that's what I love about us. It's that 'I don't need help - it's all their fault so why should I do anything' whining victim crap that makes me see red. People who aren't willing to do the work and yet think it's OK to use everyone around them as trash recepticles - cowards! Hrmmph! I better stop now and think about something nice before I start acting as detestible. In fact, the swing I just experienced from the beginning of this post to now makes me wonder if I have cyclothymia!
***You and Katia put it all so poetically, I don't even need to say more. I understand completely.
>
> So, how was your show? Haven't heard about the outcome of it. You were feeling a little rocky beforehand. Did you manage to maintain your equanimity? There, I feel better.***The show went OK. I made it through, but I didn't really have my mind alongside. I didn't sell the piece, but it was more of a social event than a show opening. Lots of collectors saw the work, though. I drank the place dry, since i was so thirsty from the Lithium!!
hugs,
Katy
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 14:01:30
In reply to It's actually Karen... » fluffy, posted by Chicklet on September 27, 2003, at 11:43:45
Hi Karen,
You know, we're actually pretty great here at Psycho-Bab, so maybe you'd like to hang out a little longer? I rarely ever go to the other sites unles I'm forced to via redirect. But it's difficult to mix in our insights along with the goal of pure med talk because of the redirects even tho' the insights are a valuable part of what we're learning from the meds. Oh well, we do it anyway.I know we'd like to keep you in our circle cause you're really a hoot and a great resource. But I can understand wanting to take it to a more personal level. So, what is your email address again? I'd search back for it, but I think we'd all appreciate getting it again. Or is it just me that's a basket case (here we go again with the baskets) with finding things?
About your kitty. I don't have experience with a diabetic kitty but it sounds like the little critter needs love and care and has landed in your lap for a very good reason. You've probably bonded with each other by now, or soon will, so it will be a labor of love and a very tender and sweet opportunity to sustain the life of a little creature, no matter how long that may be. Your other cats may get jealous and protest for a few weeks, but they learn to accept and protect. A kind of maternal instinct emerges in both female and male kitties and everyone softens. Those kinds of things open and heal our hurting hearts a little bit more.
About shots, if that's what you're expected to do - I have to give myself shots of human growth hormone every day for my fibro condition and it's no problem whatsoever and I'm grateful for it. I've given my animals shots in the past and have volunteered at feral cat clinics and given plenty of shots. It's pretty easy, you have the shot ready, capture the critter (the hardest part), lift up the scruff while you're nuzzling and whoozhy whoozhy-ing and then pop the needle in, squirt, and you're done. They usually don't even notice it. I guess you could call it a different sort of 'quality time'.
There's some research being done on the properties of cinnamon which is showing alot of promise in diabetes. Do a Google search. Also check out Dr. Jonathan Wright's website. I don't know the URL at the moment, but if you search on 'Jonathan Wright'+cinnamon you might find something worthwhile. He's pretty alternative but on the cutting edge in a lot of things. Don't know how it would go with cats but you never know. You can always go real slow and maybe win the Animal Nobel Prize for Alternative Medicine. Good luck with the little sweetheart. We fed one of our little guys with a syringe of mashed up food for two months when he was sick and it's turned into a very special bonding.
BTW, I too have enjoyed the spirit of Vicodin and other opiods. There's some stuff on this site about using low doses of Naltrexone which is usually an antidote to morphine but in very small doses prevents tolerance and addiction and lets one have the benefits instead. So how about that email and the occasional visit to your Buds here? - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 15:39:55
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 27, 2003, at 13:38:33
Asian princess! Love it! Wait til you get up to 6-7 G. Your hair and skin will start to shine more and it doesn't aggravate oily skin or acne at all. Balances things out and the mood improves.
Well, so good that you're feeling better! It's just such a surprise from day to day, isn't it? I'm slowly increasing Lam and feeling pretty darn good again. Maybe more Lam will be enough for you and you won't have to decide between Dep and Tri. It must a hard decision. I wonder if Tri has the same pork-o-genic factor? That would sure be a deciding point for me. Fat makes me depressed and depression makes me lazy. Catcha later... Barbara
Posted by katia on September 27, 2003, at 18:45:04
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 15:39:55
Hey Gals,
I'm in love with Lamictal too. I''m really better. I have to say that I'm impatient as hell tho' and detest driving. Everyone is soooo slow! So I think some of this euphoric/inspiration turns rapidly to raciness/irritation and back again. It's ok tho'. No murders have been committed. It's the med adjusting.I just got back from an intro to Animal Communication. VEry heart wrenching. Got in touch with a doggie of mine that had to go down due to medical problems. Found out that it was the right decision to let him go.
Glad to hear we're all doing better! yay!!!
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 20:32:54
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by katia on September 27, 2003, at 18:45:04
Triple Yay to us!! Keep remembering that it's a 3 steps forward, 1 step back dance, so when it starts to let down a little, don't get discouraged.
Sorry about your pooch, Katia. It's so heartbreaking to lose an animal friend, almost more so than the human kind. We treat our animals better than we do our humans as far as helping the process of moving on with dignity and ease of suffering.
I went to a number of animal psychics/communicators when a beloved cat was missing. It was very interesting and most pinpointed the area where he was eventually found (but had already made the journey across the Rainbow Bridge). Are you thinking of being trained in this, or was it more as a reading?
I also get flashes of anger but for the most part it's justified, so I can't really blame Lam. I think maybe it's because it's 'freeing me to be me'.
Have you ever tried Neurontin for this? I think I remember you or Katy had some. I'm finding that it mellows me out nicely, and increases the effect of benzos when I need to take them. Keep on happily ascending. - BCat
> Hey Gals,
> I'm in love with Lamictal too. I''m really better. I have to say that I'm impatient as hell tho' and detest driving. Everyone is soooo slow! So I think some of this euphoric/inspiration turns rapidly to raciness/irritation and back again. It's ok tho'. No murders have been committed. It's the med adjusting.
>
> I just got back from an intro to Animal Communication. VEry heart wrenching. Got in touch with a doggie of mine that had to go down due to medical problems. Found out that it was the right decision to let him go.
>
> Glad to hear we're all doing better! yay!!!
> Katia
>
Posted by katia on September 28, 2003, at 3:45:22
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 20:32:54
Hi,
I do have some Neurontin. Maybe I shall try some on those nights with agitation and so forth.I feel quite ok. I feel tired when I should and good and energetic when I should.
I hope hope hope it keeps up.I'm thinking of being trained in this. I already have been tuned into it. just want to now hone in on and fine tune my hearing. It's actually quite easy if we let it be easy.
My doggie died four years ago so some time has passed. Thanks anyway for the words of condolences.nighty night.
Katia
Posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 12:55:57
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 27, 2003, at 13:38:33
Hey Fluffy,
How much Lamictal are you up to? And how often do you go up? This frightens me. I don't want to have to keep going up and up. I felt this way with Effexor before, until I topped out at the maximum does and eventually went to the psyche ward for depression.
Dalilah
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 13:28:10
In reply to Hey Fluffy, posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 12:55:57
Hi Dahlila,
BarbaraCat here. Are you taking Lam right now? I know you were going through alot of uncertainty around meds. Are you feeling OK, better at least? I was going to give Fluff and Katia this bit of advice as well and hope they get the thread.You're probably shooting for some target with Lam based on a 'therapeutic dose' which is somewhere between 200-250mg for the majority of folks. I read here quite frequently that the real magical effect kicks in at that level and there's rarely an increase thereafter.
It's been almost 2 years for me and I'm still at 135mg and feel fine (along with the very necessary 600mg lithium). I'll probably aim for that 'magic' 200mg of Lam just to see what all the excitement is about, but I'll gradually titrate up and carefully monitor how I'm feeling.
I felt great for a few months at 25mg and for almost a year at 50mg. That was my therapeutic level for that point in time and anything more felt jittery and not even necessary. I'd encourage anyone to stay at the level they feel good at and not increase until they start feeling like they need it. You don't need to push it even though someone recommends you reach that therapeutic dose no matter what.
You know, Dahlila, here we all are, taking meds because it's the only way we know how to keep the black beast away. You might as well do it right and take the dose that works for you. Just going part way because of concerns about tolerance, escalating doses, etc., is like being in Limbo. The worry and anxiety is very stressful to your body and probably causing more stress and grief than just going for it with the meds.
Once you're at a point where you're feeling better, you get clearer and can make better judgements about where you want to go with it. You have the motivation to start exercising, the clarity to follow a healthy lifestyle, and all these things help to support a healthier biochemistry.
Once you get all systems working well and supporting each other then you can decide if you want to decrease, go higher still, whatever. But I'd strongly suggest that if you're in a weakened state emotionally and/or physically, don't decrease anything that seems likely to help. Decreasing a med and leaving yourself deficient is destabilizing and depleting. Go for the gold, get strong and healthy, and then you may find you can do with much less. - Barbara
> Hey Fluffy,
> How much Lamictal are you up to? And how often do you go up? This frightens me. I don't want to have to keep going up and up. I felt this way with Effexor before, until I topped out at the maximum does and eventually went to the psyche ward for depression.
> Dalilah
Posted by katia on September 28, 2003, at 13:44:09
In reply to Re: Hey Fluffy » Dalilah, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 13:28:10
Good advice Barb - I will heed it.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on September 28, 2003, at 15:50:08
In reply to Hey Fluffy, posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 12:55:57
Hi Dalilah--
I hope I didn't unnecesarilly frighten you with my comments about Lamictal. I went back to read your post from earlier in the thread, and you said that you hadn't felt better in years. And hey--that is fantastic!! Don't you worry about my doses and experiences that much if your experience has been a good one! We all have different brain chemestry, symptoms and positive or negative reactions to different drugs. Psychiatry is such a stab in the dark right now--but it's getting better.
But to really answer your question: I started the Lamictal (monotherapy) at 25mg and titrated up every two weeks. I seemed to hit some stability at 150mg. But i was enrolled in a study at a mood disorders center (like NIMH) which required that I get up to a dose of 200mg. I had SOME change at that dose (200mg) but still have had problems with sleep, irritability and a very rhythmic, rapid soft cycling. Lately it's been bad due to the change in the seasons (summer to fall is BAAAAD for me!).
I think I really need to have another mood stabilizer on board to compliment and reinforce the positive effects of Lamictal. That's why I'm shopping for a "mania cap". If Trileptal (don't know what dose) and Lamictal (200mg) stop the cycling but leave me feeling flat, then I may up the Lamictal another notch.
When I last upped my Lam dose to 250mg, I had slurred speach, unsteady-ness, and some cognitive probs, so we kept the dose at 200mg. Compared to lithium, though, the 250mg Lam side effects seem like cake to me!
So--I'm getting comfortable with this tweaking process by now, and I'm confident it will all come out in the wash. But I can really identify with your fears of meds not working and having to go back to the hospital. It's a scary prospect, but not one to be ashamed of. You have a doctor now, (one who is hopefully empathetic and knowledgable) and a diagnosis that "fits" and you will be taken care of. Even if your current regimine doesn't keep you fully in check, you'll probably just need fine tuning. Or you'll be able to stick it out better than before. Don't fret!
Glad you are feeling good now, Dalilah!
Take care,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on September 28, 2003, at 16:08:31
In reply to Re: Hey Fluffy » Dalilah, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 13:28:10
Hi again Dalilah--
Just one more comment.. I suppose I said i was "tolerent" to Lam because I seemed to get SOME good effects at lower doses, but they didn't stick unless I went up. Seems that most people reach a threshold for any particular drug between a therapeautic dose and a dose that may cause unbearable side effects. For me right now, that threshold is 200mg, but for others it is waaay higher or waaaay lower.
Sorry for the negativity.
Katy
Posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 16:28:52
In reply to Dalilah--Lam tolerance, posted by fluffy on September 28, 2003, at 16:08:31
Thanks Katy and Barbara,
I think you're right. I start worrying and fretting too soon. But, as you know, it's not w/o precedent. When you've been through what we've been through and as many meds, it's hard to be totally positive or secure.
I'm feeling good at 250 but my doc and I are pushing it up to 275 then 300 to see what happens. If it's no better I'll head back to 250, where I feel great for the most part. Last week I was a little higher than I liked one day and yesterday I felt a little low, so I started to feel alarmed, like it was no longer working.
And joke of all jokes, I had the thought that maybe I don't need any of these meds anymore. Dangerous territory, I know. Anyhow I also need my lithium and a small amount of seroquel at night.
It is interesting how different this disease appears in everyone and the different reactions to meds. My sister is bipolar as well and we respond to the same meds more or less, but she needs more of some and I need more of others.
Thanks,
Dalilah
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 18:40:48
In reply to Re: Dalilah--Lam tolerance, posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 16:28:52
Hi Dalilah,
How is it with the Seroquel? I was taking Ambien for insomnia and stopped because of tolerance and potential exacerbation of depression. I still have problems sleeping and wonder if Seroquel might help since it's also an anti-psychotic and may benefit my BP condition.Do you feel hung over from it in the morning? Any motor disturbances? Dry mouth? Weight gain? Do you think it benefits the BP or is it mainly a sleep aid? Do you know if it interferes with stage IV sleep? I've got fibromyalgia and anything that affects deep sleep is a no-no. Anything other s/e? Thanks for any info on this. - Barbara
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2003, at 20:05:25
In reply to No no not abandonment w/o goodbyes! » katia, posted by Chicklet on September 27, 2003, at 10:31:31
> 4 MILLIGRAMS OF PROSOM!!!! Yes i'm yelling. That yelling thing is bullsh*t anyway. Uhoh. Look Dr. Bob...I said bullsh*t.
I see, please don't use language that could offend others, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 21:12:08
In reply to Re: Dalilah--Lam tolerance, posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 16:28:52
Hi Y'all,
Are you splitting your dose of Lam? Like in the am and pm? I'm ramping up real slow and wonder if I should weigh it a little more heavy in the am because of possible activation/insomnia? Any advice? - Barbara
Posted by Dalilah on September 28, 2003, at 21:21:45
In reply to Lam - split dose?, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 21:12:08
Hi Barbara,
I take my Lamictal am and pm with the higher dose at night as prescribed by my doc. Eventually it may all be at night. But I've been in the am/pm state for so long I don't mind.
As far as seroquel, I only take 25mg at night and it does the trick for me. Helps me get a solid chunk of sleep. I have no side effects and it definately helps with the BP. How do I know. When I go down or try to go without it, I am in a very bad space heading down down down depression.
I don't know the answer to your question regarding stage IV sleep. I know nothing about that kind of thing.
-Dalilah
Posted by Sabina on September 29, 2003, at 0:45:44
In reply to Dalilah and anyone on Seroquel » Dalilah, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 18:40:48
i also am bipolar and have fibromyalgia. i can't tolerate any ssri's (though god knows the docs tried to get me to take them!), but have had great success with seroquel. it's the only full time med i'm on, augmented by the occasional xanax and vicodin or ultram for pain. i currently have periods of serious premenstrual depression but my quality of life/peace of mind while on seroquel has improved dramatically from the dark place i was early this year. there has been some weight gain, but i suspect that's going to be reversible. since i feel more able to leave the house i am spending more time at the gym (in the pool), which is great for the fibromyalgia (and weight loss). the initial somnolance with seroquel has abated over time, especially since i space out my 100mg a day in 25mg doses. the only bad thing about seroquel (for me) was ultra vivid dreams featuring estranged folks from my past. yucky. after three months, though, it's gotten to be less troublesome/frequent. my sleep cycles are still screwed up occasiopnally, depending on how much pain i'm in from day to day, but i definitely sleep much better now. i no longer feel like i'm being tortured because of an inability to rest...not a good feeling, as i'm sure you know. good luck to you, and let me know how it goes, especially since we have the fibro/BP thing in common.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 29, 2003, at 11:12:02
In reply to Re: BP2, FMS, and seroquel here » BarbaraCat, posted by Sabina on September 29, 2003, at 0:45:44
Hi Sabina,
Thanks so much for responding. I'm sorry for your BP and fibro, but happy for me that there's someone else who is aware of this very challenging (hell, it sucks!) dual condition. When a fibro flare strikes it leaves me incapable of physically dealing with anything, especially bipolar related difficulties. If I'm hypomanic, well too bad, there's no way to release or channel that skittery energy while lying in bed feeling like one big toothache, no energy, exhausted yet wired from anxiety and insomnia. Or depression, when getting up and doing something, anything, is hard enough yet there you are barely able to crawl to the bathroom, can't even escape it through sleep. Even if I can force myself to move, the old cognitive breakdown prevents me from doing simple things like remembering how to tie my shoelaces, assuming I'm able to find my shoes. I feel so dull and stupid which doesn't help with the magnified self-recrimination of depression. This is the extreme end during a flare, but it's always going on at a lesser level.I'd like to believe that getting a really good night's sleep is half the battle with fibro and if seroquel helps with this, then I'm all for it. I've weaned myself off ambien and valium for sleep and for the first time in a long time had a good rest last night, so I'm going to see if I can continue 'au natural'. I'd like to not add another med unless it's really going to benefit me.
Is it primarily for sleep or do you think it's helping your BP condition in other ways? I know that it's an antipsychotic. Since starting lithium 2 years ago I haven't had one of my horrible black mixed state depressions, but they were truly psychotic in their nightmarish quality. An antipsychotic would probably have helped alot then, but I wonder if it would be indicated now since psychosis hasn't been a problem. But maybe there are other benefits besides AP and sleep aid?
One of my concerns about seroquel is what I've read on this board as far as causing long term rebound insomnia once reducing or discontinuing. How about dry mouth? That was a big problem for me with nortriptyline and why I eventually stopped. I had a hard time talking without making smacking sounds with my parched lips.
Have you come up with any theories about why you've come down with fibro? My personal feeling is that it's probably genetic, but mainly stress based - chronic intense stress damaging the hypothalamus from doing it's hormonal job. I know this stress theory is very unpopular with many fibro advocacy groups, but it makes the most sense in my case. Having bipolar or fibro is bad enough, but having both together - yikes! Makes me wonder about their interrelation. Looking forward to hearing from you. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 29, 2003, at 11:20:10
In reply to Re: BP2, FMS, and seroquel here » BarbaraCat, posted by Sabina on September 29, 2003, at 0:45:44
Hi Sabina,
Wait, wait. I just reread your post. Do you mean that seroquel is the MAIN med you're on for BP? How could this be? No lithium, depakote, tegretol, lamictal, trileptal, topamax, dilantin - did I miss any? Were you on any of these previously? Yes, I know about SSRI's. They made me worse too, but lithium and Lam are helping - does squat for fibro however. But seroquel does it all for you? Now, that would be a miracle if it helped both fibro and BP!!! - Barbara
Posted by Chicklet on September 29, 2003, at 12:55:55
In reply to Re: BP2, FMS, and seroquel here » BarbaraCat, posted by Sabina on September 29, 2003, at 0:45:44
hey guys...sleep dep sucks. That's why i'm not around...first fell down the stairs and then biffed my head on a stone table later. No concussion but we went to the hospital anyway. Doc presribed seroquel to knock the heck out me and deposit my brain to the Land Of REMs...I fought right through 100 mg. Sucha a stubborn and willful gal, huh? At the ER they gave me Geodon which did end up prevailing but I had nasty s/e. I had tried Zyp in the past (actually for sleep too) and i felt like my head was spinning around (Exorcist style)...vomiting etc.
Oy- aren't we all so interesting? I think we should just love to be us because we have such diverse moods, wackadoodle neurotransmitters and uncannily (is that word i wonder. don't care) similar intellecutal.
I'd like to chat more about this famed Seroquel...I've read posts on it but never paid them any mind because it didn't apply to me...
> i also am bipolar and have fibromyalgia.
time med i'm on, augmented by the occasional xanax and vicodin or ultram for pain.>quality of life/peace of mind while on seroquel has improved dramatically from the dark place i was
Same goes for me with Provigil! I'll keep my paws crossed but...well you guys know.
Yo-yo. Dawg.>feel more able to leave the house i am spending more time at the gym (in the pool)
Isn't it so amazing...and evil at the same time- that exercise tends to help moods but the only time I can do it is when I feel good. Sooooo...? Oh I forgot you are the poolwoman! How inspirational!
>>ultra vivid dreams featuring estranged folks from my past. yucky.
Ewww. That IS yucky. I guess the people from your past are always there in the recesses of your frontal lobe somewhere! My dreams have been kooky on the Provig. And are wicked funny. A good time is had by all. I started talking in my sleep and my husband ends up laughing so hard (or I do, because i apparently guffaw while asleep now and then. Hmm what does that say about me?)
Also dreamed about cheese. ??? my husband had been trying to eat the red waxy part and I yapped at him because my impressionable nephew was going to see him and try it. Oh yeah, and I tsk and sigh. Funny schtuff.>>especially since we have the fibro/BP thing in common.
Ah yes, but what if we all start to cycle at the same time... ? :O
karen wants to sleep. really really.
I mean sleeeep.
hope eveybody's okelly dokelly...can't read many posts but am trying.Oh btw, What dose of lamictal did I sAY I was on? The correct answer would've been 550. i dunno what i wrote. 2 and 1/2 am, 3 pm.....
Posted by nmk on September 29, 2003, at 13:39:03
In reply to Re: Hey Fluffy » Dalilah, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 13:28:10
Hi Barbara,
I just cried on your shoulder in a previous thread we had going on but I wish I would have caught your message to Dahlila first. Thanks for the great advice, I will try to keep it with me in this time of doom.
Gratefully,
Nicole
Posted by katia on September 29, 2003, at 14:50:50
In reply to Lam - split dose?, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 21:12:08
Hi,
I've actually got 5mg pills, so I just take 2 for the moment in the am. I get a buzz for awhile after, so I don't think it'd be good at night.
katia
Posted by katia on September 29, 2003, at 14:55:07
In reply to Dalilah and anyone on Seroquel » Dalilah, posted by BarbaraCat on September 28, 2003, at 18:40:48
Hi Barb,
Don't know if you were following another thread or if it still is here; but it was about Seroquel (and the next day blues).
I've been taking it occassionally for sleep (1/4 of 25mg) and normally wake up off balance and a bit depressed. It helps with the sleep tho'. There were a few others experiencing what I experienced.
It's all individual as you know.
KatiaHi Dalilah,
> How is it with the Seroquel? I was taking Ambien for insomnia and stopped because of tolerance and potential exacerbation of depression. I still have problems sleeping and wonder if Seroquel might help since it's also an anti-psychotic and may benefit my BP condition.
>
> Do you feel hung over from it in the morning? Any motor disturbances? Dry mouth? Weight gain? Do you think it benefits the BP or is it mainly a sleep aid? Do you know if it interferes with stage IV sleep? I've got fibromyalgia and anything that affects deep sleep is a no-no. Anything other s/e? Thanks for any info on this. - Barbara
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