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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Budgie on August 19, 2003, at 22:11:55
Hi Larry,
Somebody recommended that I ask you about natural sleep aids to counteract Parnate insomnia. I don't know if you've ever been on an MAOI (I just started myself), but obviously there are a lot of contraindications, as I'm sure you know.
Also, I was stung by a bee recently and seem to be having a bad histamine reaction. Could this be more severe than it normally would be if I were not on an MAOI? Any natural remedies for itches?
Thanks for your help. I'll post back here if I can find any answers elsewhere on the net.
Posted by Guy on August 19, 2003, at 22:52:54
In reply to Larry Hoover- Sleep aids?, posted by Budgie on August 19, 2003, at 22:11:55
Sorry, but it has been my experience that once you're on pharmaceuticals, the milder, herbal remedies no longer work. This means you are left with choices such as the benzodiazepines, which sometimes lose their effectiveness for sleep over the long haul. Best not to take meds that cause insomnia as that can really upset the apple cart.
Posted by jlo820 on August 19, 2003, at 22:58:16
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover- Sleep aids?, posted by Guy on August 19, 2003, at 22:52:54
Melatonin has worked well for me.
Valerian Root has not.
My usualy medication for sleep is Trazodone, works very well.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 20, 2003, at 1:29:40
In reply to Larry Hoover- Sleep aids?, posted by Budgie on August 19, 2003, at 22:11:55
I would suggest melatonin, though first I think it would be wise to do a little research. Because of its close relationship to serotonin, I'm not quite sure if it's safe to take with an MAOI.
If you buy high-potency liquid extracts (i.e. at GNC or health food stores), there are many herbal remedies that work wonderfully for insomnia, and have no MAOI interactions (other than possible added sedation, which would be a good thing). Valerian root works for many people, though it usually works best in combination with passion flower. One product that works particularly well is made by Gaia Herbs and is a glycerite (a tincture made with glycerin instead of alcohol) of valerian and California poppy -- that's the only thing, prescription or otherwise, that helps me sleep. Kava kava, thyme, and lavender are a few more options.
As for the bee-sting, simple -- if you don't already have some, buy some chamomile tea bags (by the way, those are great for sleep as well :-). Dip one in some boiling water for about 10 seconds, then dip it into some ice water to cool it down a bit. Just apply the tea bag directly to the sting -- it will sooth the area and decrease inflammation.
Posted by galkeepinon on August 20, 2003, at 2:49:54
In reply to Larry Hoover- Sleep aids?, posted by Budgie on August 19, 2003, at 22:11:55
I'm not Lar but if I can help...................
since starting Lexapro~~~I had horrible insomnia-it has been hugely reduced by taking Unisom Sleep Gels Maximum Strength-that some dear person here suggested ;) to me and it works like a top-I sleep like a baby lately~~and have absolutely no side effects the next day~~~it is a blessing!
The only ingredient is Diphenhydramine HCI 50mg. I can't take many herbs because of IBS, but many good herbs work also I hear from the posts above:-)
Best,
gal
> Hi Larry,
>
> Somebody recommended that I ask you about natural sleep aids to counteract Parnate insomnia. I don't know if you've ever been on an MAOI (I just started myself), but obviously there are a lot of contraindications, as I'm sure you know.
>
> Also, I was stung by a bee recently and seem to be having a bad histamine reaction. Could this be more severe than it normally would be if I were not on an MAOI? Any natural remedies for itches?
>
> Thanks for your help. I'll post back here if I can find any answers elsewhere on the net.
Posted by Viridis on August 20, 2003, at 5:14:06
In reply to Larry Hoover- Sleep aids?, posted by Budgie on August 19, 2003, at 22:11:55
Diphenhydramine can be very effective for mild sleep problems; for occasional, more intense sleep difficulties, I prefer Xanax (but not on a regular basis). Many people do well with Trazodone, but it causes a mild "hangover" for me.
I have no idea how these meds interact with MAOIs -- this is a question for your doctor (and an important one !).
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2003, at 8:53:50
In reply to Larry Hoover- Sleep aids?, posted by Budgie on August 19, 2003, at 22:11:55
> Hi Larry,
Hi Budgie. Sorry for the delay in replying. I've been quite busy with my boys. We just got back from a whole day at an amusement park.
> Somebody recommended that I ask you about natural sleep aids to counteract Parnate insomnia. I don't know if you've ever been on an MAOI (I just started myself), but obviously there are a lot of contraindications, as I'm sure you know.I haven't used an irreversible MAOI like Parnate, but I'm quite aware of the safety concerns.
I'll give you some ideas of things you might try, but drug-induced insomnia tends to be a difficult thing to manage, even with prescription sleep aids.
One of the first things that comes to mind is magnesium. For a number of people, taking magnesium before bed makes them very sleepy. The only problem with magnesium is that taking too much, especially if your body isn't used to it, can bring on diarrhea. Everybody has their own sensitivity level, so a little experimentation is required. You should be able to try 200-300 mg of magnesium, as a start. Magnesium oxide and magnesium carbonate are probably not very well absorbed, so use any other kind of magnesium supplement you can find. Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate), used in a bath, will also give you some magnesium transdermally, but you can't measure the dose that way.
Another idea is niacinamide. It's a form of vitamin B3 that has tranquilizing activity. Again, taken just before bed, it may help you sleep. 500-1,000 mg. (Normally, the upper dose would be 500, but taken as a bolus like that for insomnia, I think there should be no risk.)
Melatonin should be perfectly safe. Commonly available tablets (3 mg) are too high a dose, for most people. Try breaking a tablet into quarters, and work up from that.
Someone else mentioned sedative herbs (valerian, chamomile, kava, etc.). For some people, they work great. You'll just have to try them and see. I get a paradoxical reaction to valerian, more like drinking coffee than taking a sedative. We're all different.
Other people have suggested the over-the-counter medication diphenhydramine (Benadryl). Walmart sells it as the generic, dirt cheap. 25 or 50 mg of that knocks me out, but you can quickly build a tolerance to it, and it usually wears off before you get the full eight hours of sleep.
I don't know if your pdoc is the sort who might use these drugs, but there are a few benzodiazepines which are targetted for use in insomnia. I've been using temazepam (Restoril) for extended periods, without developing tolerance.
> Also, I was stung by a bee recently and seem to be having a bad histamine reaction. Could this be more severe than it normally would be if I were not on an MAOI?
I don't think so. Bee sting allergy is quite common, and each sting will be worse than the last. What you may be having is histamine plus allergy (not, strictly speaking, the same thing).
>Any natural remedies for itches?
My first action would be Benadryl (diphenhydramine). That limits the total amount of histamine released locally (and thereby reduces the time for the body to heal from the sting). Then, a little meat tenderizer, moistened to a paste, applied over the sting, is said to help (I haven't tried this yet, because I haven't been stung in years). Meat tenderizer contains a proteolytic enzyme called papain, and it's supposed to destroy the bee venom. After a few hours, the only thing for itch that I use is calamine lotion.
> Thanks for your help. I'll post back here if I can find any answers elsewhere on the net.
You're welcome.
Lar
Posted by Budgie on August 22, 2003, at 23:13:32
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover- Sleep aids? » Budgie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2003, at 8:53:50
A virtual fountain of knowledge!
This is the end of the thread.
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