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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tepiaca on July 2, 2003, at 23:38:19
hi larry
Ive read that you believe alot on suplements to have a well functioning of the brain .
Can you tell me what suplements I should take to reduce depression and anxiety???
Actually Im on Zoloft 50mg , Shintroid 25mcg , klonopin .25 mg , and amitryptilne 12mg . Im also taking 1g of fish oil (wich help me with my anxiety and depression)
I hope you can help me larryTep
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 9:17:37
In reply to hey larry ! I need some advices from you, posted by tepiaca on July 2, 2003, at 23:38:19
> hi larry
> Ive read that you believe alot on suplements to have a well functioning of the brain .
> Can you tell me what suplements I should take to reduce depression and anxiety???
> Actually Im on Zoloft 50mg , Shintroid 25mcg , klonopin .25 mg , and amitryptilne 12mg . Im also taking 1g of fish oil (wich help me with my anxiety and depression)
> I hope you can help me larry
>
> TepI'll do my very best.
The fish oil dose could easily be raised. You could take five or more times that amount, but whatever you tolerate is the upper limit.
The most important vitamins for depression and anxiety are water-soluble. That means you have to take them frequently, but it also means they're virtually non-toxic (within reason).
Depression and anxiety are often associated with extra activity in stress hormones throughout the body. This has two effects. It increases the need for certain vitamins directly. And, it increases the amounts of these vitamins lost to urine.
So, core vitamins would be the water-soluble B-complex, and vitamin C.
B-complex is sold as a mixture of all the different B-vitamins, in a balanced combination. Taking just one B-vitamin, for example, can simultaneously increase the demand for others in that class, while hiding the negative effects until damage to the body occurs. That's why B-complex formulations were developed. You'll get thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, pyrridoxine, blah blah.....all in one pill.
They're usually sold with descriptive names like "B-50", "B-80", or some such. What that means is you're getting 50 miligrams (or micrograms, in appropriate cases) of each nutrient, or 80, or whatever the label suggests.
B-complex is generally inexpensive. You can take it three times a day, if you want to. However, some people find it stimulating, so you may have to avoid late-day doses if you get insomnia from it. Your urine will take on a bright yellow hue, but that is simply proof that your blood is full of nutrients. All the cells in your body needing vitamins have to get them from your blood. The fact that your kidneys aren't "smart" enough to leave the good stuff there doesn't mean you're not getting benefits before you create "expensive urine", as some detractors argue.
Vitamin C is necessary for neurotransmitter synthesis (and a whole lot of other things, too). I recommend 2 grams a day.
In addition to the B-complex, you can also add extra amounts of the following B-vitamins:
Folic acid. Supplemental folate has been shown to convert antidepressant non-responders into responders. It has also been used alone as an antidepressant agent for many years. You could take up to 5 mg a day, but start at 1 mg, and see what happens.
Niacinamide. The -amide part is important. Niacinamide has anti-anxiety properties all on its own. You can take 500 mg four times a day. Or less (of course). You can also try NADH, which is a special form of niacin, but we'll leave that for now.
B-12. There are two more common forms of this coenzyme, cyanocobalamin (the more common), and methylcobalamin. Despite "standard medical wisdom" that you only need a few micrograms a day of this nutrient, many people take thousands of times that amount, with good results. Just so we're clear, 1000 micrograms = 1 miligram. You can find many suppliers of 1 mg B-12 supplements. Methylcobalamin is better, but either one is good. 1 mg a day is a good start.
Minerals
Magnesium is probably a good idea. The same "urine dumping" phenomenon that depletes water soluble vitamins also depletes magnesium. Oral magnesium tablets can cause diarrhea, so you need to be careful of the dose. You'll just have to find the amount that's right for you. You should start at around 300 mg a day. Most people find that it helps sleep, so they take it at night. Don't use magnesium oxide. Anything else is OK.
Zinc. Most people don't get enough zinc. Add in special health concerns, and zinc deficiency is almost guaranteed. 30-50 mg/day, zinc gluconate or chelated zinc.
Selenium. There's a lot of controversy around this one, but selenium supplementation has been shown to improve the mood of "normal" people, as well as depressives. 200 micrograms a day, from selenium yeast. If the label doesn't mention yeast, it'll say "natural source", or something like that.
This may seem like a lot, but I don't think it is. You have to give your body every chance to deal with the stress it's under. It needs raw materials to do that.
I'd be happy to answer any questions (though I'm not around every day, for a while).
Take care,
Lar
Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 9:44:23
In reply to Re: hey larry ! I need some advices from you » tepiaca, posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 9:17:37
Thanks for that list, Larry. I'd add chromium, too.
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 10:20:14
In reply to Re: hey larry ! I need some advices from you, posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 9:44:23
> Thanks for that list, Larry. I'd add chromium, too.
Ya, chromium would be a good addition. I had to draw a line somewhere, eh?
Just avoid chromium picolinate. Use the hexanicotinate.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on July 4, 2003, at 10:37:21
In reply to Re: hey larry ! I need some advices from you » tepiaca, posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 9:17:37
Larry,
As always, thanks much for posting high quality information. I've seen these recommendations of yours in previous posts (and I implement them), but one thing you said confuses me.
> B-12. There are two more common forms of this coenzyme, cyanocobalamin (the more common), and methylcobalamin ... Methylcobalamin is better, but either one is good. 1 mg a day is a good start.
I thought that you had recently come to the conclusion that the cyanide component of cyanocobalamin rendered it unfit for human consumption <slight exaggeration>. Did I misunderstand your previously stated position, and if not, how is it consistent with your statement that "either one is good"?
Thanks Lar!
-- Ron
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 11:26:08
In reply to Re: Cyanocobalamin » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on July 4, 2003, at 10:37:21
> Larry,
>
> As always, thanks much for posting high quality information. I've seen these recommendations of yours in previous posts (and I implement them), but one thing you said confuses me.
>
> > B-12. There are two more common forms of this coenzyme, cyanocobalamin (the more common), and methylcobalamin ... Methylcobalamin is better, but either one is good. 1 mg a day is a good start.
>
> I thought that you had recently come to the conclusion that the cyanide component of cyanocobalamin rendered it unfit for human consumption <slight exaggeration>. Did I misunderstand your previously stated position, and if not, how is it consistent with your statement that "either one is good"?
>
> Thanks Lar!
>
> -- RonEither one is good, when compared to the deficiency state.
Cyanocobalamin places stress on the sulphur-based antioxidant system, by depleting glutathione. Notwithstanding that stress, oral cyanocobalamin has positive effects, and has been used quite successfully to treat overt B-12 deficiency. I myself obtained substantial benefit from the cyano- form, long before I knew of the different types, or the glutathione stress.
Methylcobalamin is more expensive, and may be harder to obtain. It is better (in all probability) than cyanocobalamin, but I wouldn't turn someone away from the latter.
So.....cyanocobalamin good, methylcobalamin better.
Lar
Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 17:30:35
In reply to Re: chromium » noa, posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 10:20:14
I use the polynicotinate. Haven't seen any hexanicotinate. What is the difference?
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 19:27:48
In reply to Re: chromium, posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 17:30:35
> I use the polynicotinate. Haven't seen any hexanicotinate. What is the difference?
No difference. Same stuff.
Lar
Posted by samplemethod on July 5, 2003, at 6:10:24
In reply to Re: chromium » noa, posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 19:27:48
What is your opinions on GTF chromium
Ingredients:
High Chromium yeast
... 95mg
equiv. to 24mcg chromium
Yeast dried (brewers yeast)
... 515mg
Is this fine for my chromium product?> > I use the polynicotinate. Haven't seen any hexanicotinate. What is the difference?
>
> No difference. Same stuff.
>
> Lar
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 5, 2003, at 8:24:57
In reply to Re: chromium » Larry Hoover, posted by samplemethod on July 5, 2003, at 6:10:24
> What is your opinions on GTF chromium
>
> Ingredients:
> High Chromium yeast
> ... 95mg
> equiv. to 24mcg chromium
>
> Yeast dried (brewers yeast)
> ... 515mg
>
>
> Is this fine for my chromium product?Yes, I believe high chromium yeast to be a safe source of chromium.
Lar
Posted by daizy on July 6, 2003, at 4:55:58
In reply to Re: chromium » samplemethod, posted by Larry Hoover on July 5, 2003, at 8:24:57
>
> Yes, I believe high chromium yeast to be a safe source of chromium.
>
> Lar
Larry, which chromium is unsafe? I heard chromium picolinate can be harmful, cause cancers? Is any of that true? Thanks...
Posted by tepiaca on July 8, 2003, at 13:24:05
In reply to Re: hey larry ! I need some advices from you » tepiaca, posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 9:17:37
Thank very much larry
So larry , what would you recomend me from that big list??? . Im am raising the fish oil , and taking vitamin C 100mg/day . What else do you think its would be good to add??? vitamin b??I have another question . Once , a friend of mine , told me that taking vitamins could be bad, cause once you stopped taking them , your body feels the necesity to continue taking them and you start feel very bad . is this true??
hope you can help me larry
thanxs
tep
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 12, 2003, at 6:48:12
In reply to Re: hey larry ! I need some advices from you » Larry Hoover, posted by tepiaca on July 8, 2003, at 13:24:05
> Thank very much larry
> So larry , what would you recomend me from that big list??? . Im am raising the fish oil , and taking vitamin C 100mg/day . What else do you think its would be good to add??? vitamin b??You could take 20 times that amount of vitamin C, but I'd recommend at least 10 times what you're already taking. The B vitamin complex is very important. But, so are the few minerals I mentioned. I'd recommend you take everything on that list. Depression can cause problems in all of those, or be caused by deficiencies in any of them.
> I have another question . Once , a friend of mine , told me that taking vitamins could be bad, cause once you stopped taking them , your body feels the necesity to continue taking them and you start feel very bad . is this true??
It has been shown to be true for vitamin C. People who have used large amounts for years can develop scurvy if they stop using it. But, the body quickly recognizes that it isn't getting the vitamin C it needs, and the scurvy goes away (if there is enough vitamin C in the diet).
There is unlikely to be such a problem for the other vitamins, but if you're worried about it, don't used them every day. Instead, use them perhaps three times a week. The intermittent supply will keep your body from becoming dependent.
> hope you can help me larry
> thanxs
> tepYou're welcome. Sorry about the slow reply. I've been on the road since last Saturday.
Lar
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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