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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by T_R_D on May 9, 2003, at 15:48:15
I just wanted to let everyone know that SAM-e has worked very well for me...so much that, after almost 5 years, I am drug free. I'm not jumping up and down, completely ecstatic or anything...I guess what I'm feeling is "normal." Normalcy was a big thing for me...I always wondered if I was numbed or missing out or "apart" from the rest of the world.
I encourage everyone to check this alternative out. I don't think it's a wonder drug or anything like that. I do like the fact that it seems to work at the other end (Serotonin manufacturing process) as opposed to blocking the re-uptake of what little might exist. This is why it has no side effects. The drugs affect all areas of the brain and stop the natural flow of things...SAM-e is a substance that is already found in your body. The theory goes that depressed folks might have a deficiency in this area.
A friend of mine who has had years of failure, one drug after the other--none of which worked, started taking it about a month or two ago. He also used it while weaning off Effexor and had NO withdrawal symptoms. That I found simply amazing as I had a really tough time getting off the drug. His success convinced me to give it a shot and here I am, three weeks later on no medication.
I'm sure many of you are already aware of this alternative and some may have even tried it. It may not work for everyone (i.e. it's not a cure-all) but it seems to have really surprised my friend and I.
Thanks!
Posted by jack smith on May 9, 2003, at 16:01:38
In reply to SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free..., posted by T_R_D on May 9, 2003, at 15:48:15
Posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 16:58:11
In reply to SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free..., posted by T_R_D on May 9, 2003, at 15:48:15
Hi TRD,
I'm happy to hear of your initial positive results with SAM-e. About 18 months ago, I started taking SAM-e and I had excellent results using 200 mg/day to treat the atypical depressive phase of my bipolar II disorder. I was taking the SAM-e in conjunction with 600 mg/day of Lithobid. The SAM-e worked great for five months straight but then, out of the blue, it induced severe irritability (GRRRRRRRR!). Search the year 2002 archives for "SAM-e" and you will see my posts.
As you probably know, it is very important to take plenty of B-6, folic acid, and B-12 when taking SAM-e to avoid increased levels of homocystiene (not good). Further, you might consider taking trimethylglycine (TMG) instead of SAM-e. The human body uses the methyl donor agent TMG for a lot of purposes, one of which is to manufacture its own supply of SAM-e.
I currently take some TMG along with a bunch of other supplements and my Lithobid. So far TMG does not cause the irritability that I experienced with SAM-e. As an aside, I currently have some unresolved irritability issues but they are unrelated to the TMG.
Again, I'm delighted that SAM-e is working well for you and I'm not trying to pour cold water on your parade. Just letting you know my experience. Others on this board have had similar difficulties with long-term SAM-e usage. But let’s hope that your results are better than mine.
If you have time, I encourage you to check the 2002 archives and do some research on TMG and/or DMG.
-- Ron
-----------------------------
> I just wanted to let everyone know that SAM-e has worked very well for me...so much that, after almost 5 years, I am drug free. I'm not jumping up and down, completely ecstatic or anything...I guess what I'm feeling is "normal." Normalcy was a big thing for me...I always wondered if I was numbed or missing out or "apart" from the rest of the world.
>
> I encourage everyone to check this alternative out. I don't think it's a wonder drug or anything like that. I do like the fact that it seems to work at the other end (Serotonin manufacturing process) as opposed to blocking the re-uptake of what little might exist. This is why it has no side effects. The drugs affect all areas of the brain and stop the natural flow of things...SAM-e is a substance that is already found in your body. The theory goes that depressed folks might have a deficiency in this area.
>
> A friend of mine who has had years of failure, one drug after the other--none of which worked, started taking it about a month or two ago. He also used it while weaning off Effexor and had NO withdrawal symptoms. That I found simply amazing as I had a really tough time getting off the drug. His success convinced me to give it a shot and here I am, three weeks later on no medication.
>
> I'm sure many of you are already aware of this alternative and some may have even tried it. It may not work for everyone (i.e. it's not a cure-all) but it seems to have really surprised my friend and I.
>
> Thanks!
Posted by stjames on May 9, 2003, at 17:54:14
In reply to SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free..., posted by T_R_D on May 9, 2003, at 15:48:15
> I just wanted to let everyone know that SAM-e has worked very well for me...so much that, after almost 5 years, I am drug free.
Sam-e is a drug, too.
Posted by leeran on May 9, 2003, at 18:58:46
In reply to Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free... » T_R_D, posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 16:58:11
Hi Ron,
I read your post with great interest. I had never even heard of trimethylglycine. Is there a particular brand that you use? I was just looking at this product:
http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/homocys.html
It looks like it supplies everything you mentioned in your post (B6, B12, Folic acid - plus, 1 g. of trimethylglycine).
Thanks for this post! I learn so much on these boards.
Lee
Posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 21:10:56
In reply to Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free... » Ron Hill, posted by leeran on May 9, 2003, at 18:58:46
Hi Lee,
> I had never even heard of trimethylglycine. Is there a particular brand that you use?
Any good quality brand is okey-dokey fine with me. Here is the iherb pages for TMG:
http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?follow-pro=1&vwcatalog=iherb&catalog=iherb&query=TMG
> I was just looking at this product:
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/homocys.html
>
> It looks like it supplies everything you mentioned in your post (B6, B12, Folic acid - plus, 1 g. of trimethylglycine).Yeah, I looked at it and it looks like an interesting product. It is about twice as expensive as TMG on a $/milligram of TMG basis. I wonder if the wine extract in it provides health benefits similar to red wine?
Also, Ray Sahelian, M.D., in his book titled "Mind Boosters: A Guide to Natural Supplements that Enhance Your Mind, Memory, and Mood", recommends taking no more than 250 mg/day of TMG and to take days off periodically. Therefore, I use a pill cutter, razor blade, and/or my teeth to hack the 500 mg tablets (or larger) into bite-sized morsels.
> I learn so much on these boards.
Yes, me too. I’m very grateful for Dr. Bob’s generosity (time, talent, and out-of-pocket funds) and for the willingness of the participants to take the time required to share their information.
-- Ron
Posted by McPac on May 9, 2003, at 21:21:07
In reply to Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free... » T_R_D, posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 16:58:11
"As an aside, I currently have some unresolved irritability issues but they are unrelated to the TMG".
Hi Ron!
Are your irritability issues caused by a medication?
I know I've battled irritability issues related to Zoloft.
Posted by Ron Hill on May 10, 2003, at 0:04:05
In reply to Ron, Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free..., posted by McPac on May 9, 2003, at 21:21:07
Hey McPac,
> Are your irritability issues caused by a medication?
> I know I've battled irritability issues related to Zoloft.No, my dysphoric mood swings are just part of the joys of my bipolar disorder. But some meds and supplements can make it worse. For example, I take Enada NADH for my atypical depression and it works very well for that purpose. But it also makes my irritability worse if I take too much.
Unlike your case, SSRIs take away my irritability, but within a few weeks the SSRIs interfere with my dopaminergic pathways causing me to lose all my drive (motivation) and I become apathetic and emotionally blunted.
-- Ron
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2003, at 10:47:25
In reply to Re: TMG: The Other Methyl Donor » leeran, posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 21:10:56
> Also, Ray Sahelian, M.D., in his book titled "Mind Boosters: A Guide to Natural Supplements that Enhance Your Mind, Memory, and Mood", recommends taking no more than 250 mg/day of TMG and to take days off periodically. Therefore, I use a pill cutter, razor blade, and/or my teeth to hack the 500 mg tablets (or larger) into bite-sized morsels.Ron, does the book provide a rationale for limiting the dose to 250 mg/day? One reason I've mentioned higher doses myself is that I've seen recommendations of as much as 8,000 mg/day. I don't tolerate more than 1,000, but I thought that might just be idiosyncratic.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on May 10, 2003, at 18:21:42
In reply to Re: TMG: The Other Methyl Donor » Ron Hill, posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2003, at 10:47:25
Hi Larry,
> Ron, does the book provide a rationale for limiting the dose to 250 mg/day? One reason I've mentioned higher doses myself is that I've seen recommendations of as much as 8,000 mg/day. I don't tolerate more than 1,000, but I thought that might just be idiosyncratic.
Ray Sahelian, M.D., (on page 108 of his book "Mind Boosters: A Guide to Natural Supplements that Enhance Your Mind, Memory, and Mood"), writes as follows:
<quote>
Cautions and Side Effects
TMG and DMG, if taken in high doses, can cause nausea, restlessness, and insomnia along with elevated body temperature. According to Dr. Frankel, an additional side effect of high dosage can include muscle-tension headache.
I recommend not exceeding 250 mg of TMG or DMG or a combination on a daily basis until more is known about these supplements; dose of TMG and DMG should be reduced if you are taking B vitamins, SAM-e, DMAE, or choline since all of these nutrients have overlapping functions.
<end quote>
Larry, Dr. Sahelian speaks very highly of TMG in his book, so please do not allow this short excerpt yanked from its context mislead you. Further, it is my opinion that Dr. Sahelian may be overly conservative regarding dose recommendations throughout his book.
-- Ron
P.S. Do you listen to educational tapes (like books on tape, for example) as you drive?
Posted by T_R_D on May 12, 2003, at 9:49:41
In reply to At what dose and what brand? (nm) » T_R_D, posted by jack smith on May 9, 2003, at 16:01:38
NOW Foods and 100mg per day (100mg of SAM-e, 200mg tablet marked on bottle.)
Posted by T_R_D on May 12, 2003, at 9:51:44
In reply to Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free..., posted by stjames on May 9, 2003, at 17:54:14
Sorry for not being clear enough in my wording...I am now no longer taking any synthetic drugs...is that better?
Posted by T_R_D on May 12, 2003, at 9:59:36
In reply to Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free... » T_R_D, posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 16:58:11
Hi, Ron...not to worry about "raining on my parade." As with "SYNTHETIC DRUGS" (I wasn't clear enough for stjames) I know that things can change and as I did state in my first post, I did not thing it was a cure-all/wonderDRUG or whatever. I just thought it would be nice to post something positive on the board. It's also good to hear about others' experiences...thank you for sharing!
> Hi TRD,
>
> I'm happy to hear of your initial positive results with SAM-e. About 18 months ago, I started taking SAM-e and I had excellent results using 200 mg/day to treat the atypical depressive phase of my bipolar II disorder. I was taking the SAM-e in conjunction with 600 mg/day of Lithobid. The SAM-e worked great for five months straight but then, out of the blue, it induced severe irritability (GRRRRRRRR!). Search the year 2002 archives for "SAM-e" and you will see my posts.
>
> As you probably know, it is very important to take plenty of B-6, folic acid, and B-12 when taking SAM-e to avoid increased levels of homocystiene (not good). Further, you might consider taking trimethylglycine (TMG) instead of SAM-e. The human body uses the methyl donor agent TMG for a lot of purposes, one of which is to manufacture its own supply of SAM-e.
>
> I currently take some TMG along with a bunch of other supplements and my Lithobid. So far TMG does not cause the irritability that I experienced with SAM-e. As an aside, I currently have some unresolved irritability issues but they are unrelated to the TMG.
>
> Again, I'm delighted that SAM-e is working well for you and I'm not trying to pour cold water on your parade. Just letting you know my experience. Others on this board have had similar difficulties with long-term SAM-e usage. But let’s hope that your results are better than mine.
>
> If you have time, I encourage you to check the 2002 archives and do some research on TMG and/or DMG.
>
> -- Ron
> -----------------------------
> > I just wanted to let everyone know that SAM-e has worked very well for me...so much that, after almost 5 years, I am drug free. I'm not jumping up and down, completely ecstatic or anything...I guess what I'm feeling is "normal." Normalcy was a big thing for me...I always wondered if I was numbed or missing out or "apart" from the rest of the world.
> >
> > I encourage everyone to check this alternative out. I don't think it's a wonder drug or anything like that. I do like the fact that it seems to work at the other end (Serotonin manufacturing process) as opposed to blocking the re-uptake of what little might exist. This is why it has no side effects. The drugs affect all areas of the brain and stop the natural flow of things...SAM-e is a substance that is already found in your body. The theory goes that depressed folks might have a deficiency in this area.
> >
> > A friend of mine who has had years of failure, one drug after the other--none of which worked, started taking it about a month or two ago. He also used it while weaning off Effexor and had NO withdrawal symptoms. That I found simply amazing as I had a really tough time getting off the drug. His success convinced me to give it a shot and here I am, three weeks later on no medication.
> >
> > I'm sure many of you are already aware of this alternative and some may have even tried it. It may not work for everyone (i.e. it's not a cure-all) but it seems to have really surprised my friend and I.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
Posted by Ron Hill on May 12, 2003, at 13:30:32
In reply to Re: SAM-e...I Am Now Drug Free..., posted by T_R_D on May 12, 2003, at 9:59:36
Hi TRD,
> I just thought it would be nice to post something positive on the board.
Yes, by all means! Please continue to keep us updated regarding your SAM-e trial.
-- Ron
This is the end of the thread.
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