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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2003, at 11:06:03
I once found myself becoming much, much more depressed when I tried taking calcium supplements. My depression was exacerbated within an hour of taking it. It took a few hours for me to recover.
Magnesium and calcium are often placed in antagonistic roles throughout the nervous system, particularly at terminal buttons (presynaptic nerve endings).
So, I was thinking that if calcium made me feel worse, maybe magnesium would make me feel better. Of course, any magnesium supplement used must not contain calcium. I'll pick some up next time I'm at the pharmacy.
Any comments?
- Scott
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 22, 2003, at 12:29:19
In reply to Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone?, posted by SLS on February 22, 2003, at 11:06:03
> I once found myself becoming much, much more depressed when I tried taking calcium supplements. My depression was exacerbated within an hour of taking it. It took a few hours for me to recover.
>
> Magnesium and calcium are often placed in antagonistic roles throughout the nervous system, particularly at terminal buttons (presynaptic nerve endings).
>
> So, I was thinking that if calcium made me feel worse, maybe magnesium would make me feel better. Of course, any magnesium supplement used must not contain calcium. I'll pick some up next time I'm at the pharmacy.
>
> Any comments?
>
>
> - ScottYou might want to take a look at:
Posted by bozeman on February 22, 2003, at 15:16:28
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone?, posted by Larry Hoover on February 22, 2003, at 12:29:19
Terrific site, Larry. More info than can be digested in a day, or even a week, but my own experiences (resulting from treatments by my rather-non-traditional doctor) have substantiated at least some of this site's content, for me. Mg IV's probably saved my life at one point.
Thanks.
bozeman
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2003, at 15:34:46
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone? » Larry Hoover, posted by bozeman on February 22, 2003, at 15:16:28
> Terrific site, Larry. More info than can be digested in a day, or even a week, but my own experiences (resulting from treatments by my rather-non-traditional doctor) have substantiated at least some of this site's content, for me. Mg IV's probably saved my life at one point.
---------------------------------------
Hi bozeman.Saved your life from depression? How severe was it and what symptoms did you have?
How long did it take before you began to feel an improvement?
Do you feel that magnesium has brought you to complete remission?
How much do you take?
Does it have to be in any special form?
Are you taking any other drugs?
Thank-you in advance for any input you can provide me.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on February 22, 2003, at 17:56:44
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone? » bozeman, posted by SLS on February 22, 2003, at 15:34:46
I take lithium currently, would there be any
advantage to taking magnesium with this?That page said lithium displaced magnesium,
what does this mean. Would it be counterproductive, or synsergic to combine ?anyone ?
Thanks
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 23, 2003, at 8:13:31
In reply to lithium plus magnesium, posted by linkadge on February 22, 2003, at 17:56:44
> I take lithium currently, would there be any
> advantage to taking magnesium with this?
>
> That page said lithium displaced magnesium,
> what does this mean. Would it be counterproductive, or synsergic to combine ?
>
> anyone ?
>
> Thanks
>
> LinkadgeI've been unable to find a clear answer to your question, but I can tell you this: lithium raises blood levels of magnesium, and increases excretion. After chronic lithium exposure, blood levels are no longer elevated above normal. How I see this is that lithium flushes magnesium out of your body over time, which would adversely affect many biochemical processes. In certain cell compartments, I found evidence of unusually low magnesium levels following lithium administration. It may be wise to consider a maintenance dose of magnesium to counteract the excretion induced by lithium.
Posted by bozeman on February 23, 2003, at 20:48:11
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone? » bozeman, posted by SLS on February 22, 2003, at 15:34:46
I've tried three times over the last two days to answer this post, only to have it evaporate each time. Weather affecting the connectivity, I guess. Well respond later when everything clears up. Losing patience retyping everything. :-)
Hope you're doing ok.
bozeman
>
>
> Hi bozeman.
>
> Saved your life from depression? How severe was it and what symptoms did you have?
>
> How long did it take before you began to feel an improvement?
>
> Do you feel that magnesium has brought you to complete remission?
>
> How much do you take?
>
> Does it have to be in any special form?
>
> Are you taking any other drugs?
>
> Thank-you in advance for any input you can provide me.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by jrbecker on February 23, 2003, at 22:38:40
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone? » SLS, posted by bozeman on February 23, 2003, at 20:48:11
Magnesium (250mg in the morning) has had a slight effect on my depression and a much larger effect on fighting my anxiety level. Although atyipcal types should be wary of taking it during the day since it can make you tired.
Posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 9:23:58
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone?, posted by jrbecker on February 23, 2003, at 22:38:40
J.R. Becker,
For several years I have taken 400 mg/day of magnesium (200 mg/day magnesium citrate and 200 mg/day magnesium malate). After reading the site posted by Larry, I might replace the citrate with a different chelating agent and increase my dose somewhat.
JRB, your words ring true in my case. I am atypical and if I take it during the day it makes me sleepy (tired). However, when I take it at bedtime it provides a tranquil soothing kind of effect and, thereby, acts as a good sleep aid. As a BP II, getting good sleep is essential for good mental health.
As for magnesium's AD effects, at the dose I take I have always felt that it helps me slightly in my fight against BP II atypical depression. However, the AD effect is not profound. What is profound, however, is the AD effectiveness of Enada NADH, but that's food for another thread.
-- Ron
---------------------------> Magnesium (250mg in the morning) has had a slight effect on my depression and a much larger effect on fighting my anxiety level. Although atyipcal types should be wary of taking it during the day since it can make you tired.
Posted by jrbecker on February 24, 2003, at 10:49:47
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone? » jrbecker, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 9:23:58
Ron, sorry to hijack the thread here, but interesting thoughts on NADH though. I have been following your thread on this for a while. Sounds like you're enjoying lasting efficacy thus far. Have you ever tried anything like Selegiline that might be somewhat imilar to NADH's modulation of the dopaminergic/adrenergic pathway? just curious.
JRB
Posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 13:29:00
In reply to Re: Magnesium supplements for depression? Anyone? » Ron Hill, posted by jrbecker on February 24, 2003, at 10:49:47
JRB,
> Ron, sorry to hijack the thread here, but interesting thoughts on NADH though. I have been following your thread on this for a while. Sounds like you're enjoying lasting efficacy thus far.
Enada NADH is currently working very well but I'm still in the process of finding the correct dose. See my post in another thread:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030224/msgs/203343.html
>Have you ever tried anything like Selegiline that might be somewhat imilar to NADH's modulation of the dopaminergic/adrenergic pathway? just curious.
I've never tried Selegiline but it is on my list of medications that I want to try if Enada NADH poops out on me.
Last year I had five months of successful treatment of my atypical depression using SAM-e. I was (and still am) convinced that it was the dopaminergic effects of SAM-e that was providing the benefits. Unfortunately, after five months of a low dose (200 mg/day) of SAM-e, it turned against me and induced EXTREME IRRITABILITY (flash rage). Therefore, I had to discontinue it. I felt kind of sheepish when I had to discontinue it because I had been such an outspoken advocate of SAM-e on this board and elsewhere. Oh well, live and learn!
If you are interested, here is a link that briefly mentions the dopaminergic actions of SAM-e. There are better articles on the topic of the dopaminergic actions of SAM-e, but this is the first one I pulled up:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/sameart.html
Posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 15:30:49
In reply to Re: lithium plus magnesium, posted by Larry Hoover on February 23, 2003, at 8:13:31
Hi Larry,
I am on Lithium and wonder if some magnesium would help. However, does taking it alter calcium adsorption? What type do you suggest and any ideas on a starting dose? I have been taking some extra B and C after lunch and it has helped. thank you
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 24, 2003, at 16:31:04
In reply to Re: lithium plus magnesium » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 15:30:49
> Hi Larry,
>
> I am on Lithium and wonder if some magnesium would help. However, does taking it alter calcium adsorption? What type do you suggest and any ideas on a starting dose? I have been taking some extra B and C after lunch and it has helped. thank youWhat was once believed to be an interaction between these two was later found to be a quirk of the effect of magnesium deficiency. Low magnesium stores cause the dissolution of bone because the largest store of magnesium in the body is bone. This causes high blood calcium levels, which in turn tells the parathyroid to cut back on the hormone that controls active uptake (activated by vitamin D) of both calcium and magnesium. In other words, high calcium *in the blood* blocks magnesium uptake, but not having both in the diet together.
So, if you're magnesium deficient, you're not going to absorb magnesium efficiently, at first. If it remains in the gut (i.e. due to poor absorption), it can lead to diarrhea. So, start at maybe 500 mg magnesium chloride or magnesium citrate. Every two weeks, up that by 250 mg, until you're at 1 gram or so. That's plenty. If at any dose you get loose stools, back down again for a week. You should also ensure that you get extra vitamin D. Cod liver oil is a good source, and it also gives you omega-3 fatty acids.
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2003, at 18:07:01
In reply to Re: lithium plus magnesium, posted by Larry Hoover on February 24, 2003, at 16:31:04
Posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 19:48:13
In reply to Re: lithium plus magnesium, posted by Larry Hoover on February 24, 2003, at 16:31:04
Thanks Larry,
Your info is so educational. I read on that website that calcium glycirate(sp) had been taken. I don't have to worry about the squirts since my good old TCA makes me constipated. Actually, something to even that out would be nice. I have thought about trying some cod liver oil, but my fragmented sleeping after things were going well on the fish oil has me somewhat spooked. Any need to curtail my milk drinking?
Thanks a million. take care
johnj
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 25, 2003, at 9:17:01
In reply to Re: lithium plus magnesium » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on February 24, 2003, at 19:48:13
> Thanks Larry,
> Your info is so educational.Thanks. My exwife says I always provide too much information. :-/
>I read on that website that calcium glycirate(sp) had been taken.
glycinate? That's a salt with the amino acid glycine.
>I don't have to worry about the squirts since my good old TCA makes me constipated. Actually, something to even that out would be nice.
The intestinal contractions that move food through your gut are in part regulated by serotonin. That's why drugs that affect serotonin receptors and reuptake cause GI side-effects. There's more serotonin in your gut than there is in your brain.
Too much magnesium will flush you out, like water pouring through you. Magnesium salts are part of the Fleet enema you'd use if you were going in for an endoscopy of your bowel. Everybody has a different threshold dose that will cause diarrhea. That's why I recommend slow dose increases with magnesium.
>I have thought about trying some cod liver oil, but my fragmented sleeping after things were going well on the fish oil has me somewhat spooked.
One teaspoon per week should be all you need to ensure your vitamin D intake.
>Any need to curtail my milk drinking?
No reason at all.
> Thanks a million. take care
> johnjYou're welcome.
Lar
Posted by ADDFazed on June 14, 2004, at 15:25:59
In reply to Re: Brief interuption of thread topic » jrbecker, posted by Ron Hill on February 24, 2003, at 13:29:00
In the book Stop Depression Now about SAM-e by Brown, Bottiglieri and Colman it says this:
IF you suffer from SAD seasonal affective disorder and you are the type who becomes extremely active over the summer - excess energy sleep less than in fall and winter - in overdrive - then only take SAM-e from October to April. Interesting point.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2004, at 19:35:42
In reply to Re: Brief interuption of thread topic, posted by ADDFazed on June 14, 2004, at 15:25:59
> In the book Stop Depression Now about SAM-e by Brown, Bottiglieri and Colman it says this...
Sorry if it's confusing, but there are a number of boards here, and the one for discussion of SAM-e is now Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/356722.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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