![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 32 to 56 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by worrier on December 28, 2002, at 17:04:12
In reply to Re: What's so bad about Marijuana?, posted by Caleb462 on December 28, 2002, at 0:47:17
> I haven't really been paying attention to this thread, but I'll just say that for me, marijuana triggers anxiety rather than relieving it. Which is not to say I don't enjoy marijuana. Aesthetically, intellectually and emotionally, it CAN be a fun and rewarding substance. However, stress relief? No way, not for me. As an example, the only panic attack I've ever had was after smoking pot.
>Everyone responds differently to any substance...for me marijuana use to be a great relaxant. It relieved stress and anxiety,etc. But a few years ago it became the major trigger of my panic attacks and really intensified them as well. I've pretty much had to give it up entirely. I find that disappointing, as I personally think it's alot safer than most of the stuff our docs give us.
Posted by rotem on December 29, 2002, at 13:43:59
In reply to to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by rotem on December 29, 2002, at 11:10:26
continuation....
especially I don't want a pdoc, who every side-effect I report him, dismiss me as only anxiety or suggestibility.
For example I have a heat and aunt-like senstation in my legs from prozac. the pdoc I want will acknowledge it is from the prozac and not "my imagination", as a I am 100% sure it is from it. Cause each time I stopped the prozac, it went away.So it's a matter of:
1. knowlegde of all kind of possible side-effects, even rare one, even ones who haven't been reported by other people.
2. respect to the patient
Posted by rotem on December 29, 2002, at 13:58:17
In reply to to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by rotem on December 29, 2002, at 11:10:26
continuation....
especially I don't want a pdoc, who every side-effect I report him, dismiss me as only anxiety or suggestibility.
For example I have a heat and aunt-like senstation in my legs from prozac. the pdoc I want will acknowledge it is from the prozac and not "my imagination", as a I am 100% sure it is from it. Cause each time I stopped the prozac, it went away.So it's a matter of:
1. knowlegde of all kind of possible side-effects, even rare one, even ones who haven't been reported by other people.
2. respect to the patient
Posted by Michael D on December 29, 2002, at 21:33:33
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia, posted by comftnumb on December 25, 2002, at 23:43:22
> I started smoking pot in October 2001, and more heavily in November. My brother found me at school in a stupor, and he took me home to settle down. I ended up staying psychotic with plenty of delusions.
How much were you smoking. Some have suggested that psychosis might be because of high doses of marijuana. Marijuana could be like any other drug. Too much of a good thing...
Michael D
Posted by Michael D on December 29, 2002, at 21:40:09
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia, posted by BeardedLady on December 26, 2002, at 5:55:12
> Are you sure this is correct? That marijuana can increase your chance of becoming schizophrenic?People who have smoked pot have a six fold increase in their rates of schizophrenia. The question "What came first, the chicken or the egg, is still in the air..."
Michael D
Posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:18:12
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia, posted by comftnumb on December 25, 2002, at 23:43:22
I highly doubt it. Most psychotic breaks happen
in ones 20's and many start smoking pot then.
Also smoking pot can be seen as a coping skill
to having/starting schizophrenia.Really reaching here, one could say being 20 something caused their schizophrenia, if one was to confuse cause and effect.
Given the HUGE number of people who smoke pot, and have for centuries, we should have seen a
causal relationship here. People do drugs to ease
the suffering of schizophrenia.
Posted by comftnumb on December 29, 2002, at 23:50:16
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia, posted by oracle on December 29, 2002, at 23:18:12
I didn't have any psychotic symptoms until I started smoking weed. I was self-medicating for social anxiety. If you want to pin my social anxiety on prodromal schizophrenia, then fine. But I think the two are unrelated. Even if they are, it still doesn't explain why if I ever smoke a joint now I get extremely psychotic. That didn't used to happen when I first started smoking.
I'm not saying marijuana causes schizophrenia. I think I must have a predisposition. But I am saying marijuana triggered my psychotic episode. My doctors agree. Marijuana triggers psychosis in those vulnerable. And if you smoke pot your chances of getting schizophrenia increase by 30%, according to a Swedish study. That's for people even without a predisposition.
> I highly doubt it. Most psychotic breaks happen
> in ones 20's and many start smoking pot then.
> Also smoking pot can be seen as a coping skill
> to having/starting schizophrenia.
>
> Really reaching here, one could say being 20 something caused their schizophrenia, if one was to confuse cause and effect.
>
> Given the HUGE number of people who smoke pot, and have for centuries, we should have seen a
> causal relationship here. People do drugs to ease
> the suffering of schizophrenia.
Posted by rotem on December 30, 2002, at 3:23:40
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by rotem on December 29, 2002, at 13:43:59
offffffff, I called Dr Schrieber and he doesn't accept patients- not privately and not publicly. He deals only with hospitalized people.
what to do ?Also coping my previeus question:
Thank you very much jimmy
I want to make clear what kind of pdoc I'm looking for in the
hope you know about someone like that, or maybe even Dr. Schreiber fits this
expanded description.
1. Knowledgeable in psychopharmacology as much as Weizman, with a biological orientations, not a psychotherapy orientation. I don't want him to try psychotherapy on me, but to concentrate on the biology, because I'm seeing a psychologist for the psychotherapy.
2.Have intuition and can diagnose, so he can fit the medicine to my psych (be a good "interface" between me and the medicines). Someone who knows the fine fine distinctions of depression, and not generalize: "depression, anxiety, a little obsessive, so take SSRI". and that's it because the leading theory today links this to Serotonin. I want someone who can, for example, diagnose if my condition is appropriate for dopaminergics (such as mirapex, Amineptine bromocriptine amantadine minaprine Permax pramipexole Cabergoline ,Ropinirole amisulpride etc') or not, and save me a painful experience if not.
3. Someone with A LOT of patience, who will sit with me for an hour (not 20 minutes..), and I can ask questions in psychopharmacology and get answers, not patronizing "you don't need to understand pharmacology" or "your need to understand pharmacology shows you have OCD" (which is partly true, but still i think legitimate).
4. With an open mind. Someone who is prepared to commit himself to help me find a solution, even if the medicines are not available in Israel (for example mirapex). Unlike Weizman, who is "small head"- if the medicine isn't available in Israel, ignores it.
Of course, the psychiatrist needs to know about the medicines, even if he hasn't experience in using them in Israel. I also want him to be able to help me import them, for example sign form 29c.
5. I'm sensitive to medicines and reacts very strongly even at low dosages. So I need the pdoc to take me seriously and to consider if my reactions justify stopping, or the medicine is still the most suitable.
(for example he would also explain to me why this happens from a pharmacological view and not say I'm histrionic).
Unlike one psychiatrist who told me that if I don't take a reasonable dosage for a long time he doesn't want to work with me. I understand the logic rational for this attitude, but there is a limit to my ability to suffer, and the pdoc should differentiate between reasonable reaction and unreasonably harsh response.
Unfortunately I've been to 2 psychiatrist privately who behaved like in "Kupat Holim", with stock answers and "small head".
Hope you didnt lost in my long description...
Thanks for your help
eager to hear your response
Neta
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 30, 2002, at 8:59:23
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia, posted by Michael D on December 29, 2002, at 21:40:09
>
> > Are you sure this is correct? That marijuana can increase your chance of becoming schizophrenic?
>
> People who have smoked pot have a six fold increase in their rates of schizophrenia. The question "What came first, the chicken or the egg, is still in the air..."
>
> Michael DWhenever correlation is found between two variables, it is a useful tactic to invert the two variables to consider the other side of the coin. To rephrase the relationship in the new way, you might say the schizophrenics are six times more likely to have used marijuana than non-schizophrenics. Given the general mellowing effect normally attributed to marijuana, self-medication during the prodromal period is not at all an unreasonable inference. The prodromal period for a disorder is that period of time where the disease process is already active, but clinically diagnosable symptoms are not yet fully developed.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 30, 2002, at 9:22:18
In reply to Beardedlady, 2 marijuana/schizo links for you, posted by comftnumb on December 26, 2002, at 11:49:57
> http://www.healthscout.com/static/news/510418.html
>
> http://www.xpresssites.com/buffalo/buffalo/xpspecialsections/healthandwellness/story_318702.asp
>
> Summary:
>
> Smoking pot increases the risk of the psychiatric disorder by about 30 percent (1st article, Swedish study). There is genetic evidence that marijuana use can result in schizophrenia or a significantly increased risk of schizophrenia (2nd article, Japanese Study). Cannabis used before age 18 raises the risk of schizophrenia six-fold (2nd article, Swedish Study).I've got to add a critical commentary to this information. First, let's consider the first article linked above. It states that:
""It's not as good an explanation than the possibility that cannabis itself causes schizophrenia," says Dr. Stanley Zammit, a psychiatrist at the University of Wales College of Medicine in Cardiff and lead author of the new paper.
Zammit and his colleagues compared schizophrenia rates and marijuana use among more than 50,000 Swedish conscripts who participated in a 1969-1970 survey. Of those, 362, or about 0.7 percent, had been hospitalized with the disorder by 1996.
Of the 11 percent of the entire group that admitted ever trying marijuana, 73, or 1.4 percent, went on to be hospitalized for schizophrenia. The odds of having the disease grew as pot use climbed, reaching nearly a sevenfold increase in the men who used it 50 times or more but tried no other illegal drugs, the study says.
The effect was strongest among soldiers who developed schizophrenia within five years of entering the military. It held after the researchers accounted for use of alcohol and other drugs."
The author's conclusion of a causative link between marijuana use and schizophrenia is scientifically inexcusable. They have inserted their own beliefs into the equation, a practice that I find to be reprehensible as it leads to all kinds of misrepresentations of the data. In essence, they have made a political statement based on incomplete evidence.
The existence of a correlation between two variables can have four possible explanations. In symbolic terms: the existence of A leads to B; the existence of B leads to A; both A and B are caused by a separate and unmeasured variable; the relationship is a chance artifact of the sampling process.
Even the selection of the wording of the correlation demonstrates the bias of the reviewers of the data. In this case, marijuana is pre-selected as the independent variable, and schizophrenia is selected as the dependent one, implying that marijuana use leads to schizophrenia.
Now, because of the sample size, it is pretty unlikely that the correlation is due to chance, but there is no evidence that any of the other three possible relationships should be given precedence over the other two. Even the paragraph that suggests that, "The effect (of marijuana) was strongest among soldiers who developed schizophrenia within five years of entering the military." can be seen to strongly support the converse relationship, that those already developing schizophrenia would conceivably be more likely to self-medicate with cannabis.
It is a scientific axiom that correlation is not causation, and the authors of this study have committed a major error in judgment to have used that term. In an epidemiological study (one where no manipulation of variables occurs, i.e. subjects were not *randomly* assigned to marijuana use or non-use and then observed), that error is particularly egregious. There is an inherent confound in that those with a predisposition to schizophrenia may self-select into the group of marijuana users, fundamentally distorting the relationship between the two variables.
I'm going to deal with the second article, and other research, in another post.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 30, 2002, at 9:53:37
In reply to Beardedlady, 2 marijuana/schizo links for you, posted by comftnumb on December 26, 2002, at 11:49:57
> http://www.healthscout.com/static/news/510418.html
>
> http://www.xpresssites.com/buffalo/buffalo/xpspecialsections/healthandwellness/story_318702.asp
>
> Summary:
>
> Smoking pot increases the risk of the psychiatric disorder by about 30 percent (1st article, Swedish study). There is genetic evidence that marijuana use can result in schizophrenia or a significantly increased risk of schizophrenia (2nd article, Japanese Study). Cannabis used before age 18 raises the risk of schizophrenia six-fold (2nd article, Swedish Study).
The Japanese study noted above provides clear evidence of a genetic abnormality in endogenous cannibinoid activity in schizophrenics.From the second link:
"The hallucinogenic properties of marijuana, the researchers explained, are linked to a biochemical found abundantly in the brain. The chemical, called cannabinoid receptor protein, studs the surfaces of brain cells and latches onto the active chemical within marijuana known as THC.
"These sites are where marijuana acts on the brain," Ujike said.
Ujike and his team examined the gene for the marijuana receptor in 121 Japanese patients with schizophrenia and an average age of 44.
When they compared this gene in schizophrenics with the same gene in 148 normal men and woman of the same average age, they found distinct abnormalities in DNA sequences called nucleotides among the schizophrenics.
Some of their nucleotides in the marijuana receptor gene appeared significantly more often than normal while others appeared less frequency.
"This finding is the first to report a potential abnormality of the cannabinoid system in schizophrenia," said clinical neuroscientist Carol Tamminga at the University of Maryland in College Park."
The researchers have identified a clear and unequivocal difference in the *genetic* makeup of schizophrenics. The genetic difference *must* have been present before marijuana use, unless we are to accept that marijuana use can change the genes found throughout the entire body of its users. The researchers could not possibly have sampled the brains of these subjects, for ethical reasons. The samples were probably from blood draws or skin cells. Now, how can you possibly infer that marijuana caused schizophrenia in those with inborn genetic errors in cannibinoid receptors?What these researchers may have stumbled on is one of the regulatory mechanisms which predisposes one to positive symptom schizophrenia, mediated by the neurotransmitters known as anandamides, which are the natural brain chemicals which bind to what has been called the cannibinoid receptor. By the way, research into regulators of the anandamide system as treatments for anxiety and depression is under way.
Anandamides are produced from the long-chain poly-unsaturated fatty acid, arichidonic acid.
Vitam Horm 2002;65:225-55
Endocannabinoids and their actions.
Maccarrone M, Finazzi-Agro A.
Department of Experimental Medicine and Biochemical Sciences, University of Rome Tor Vergata, I-00133 Rome, Italy.
Endocannabinoids are a new class of lipid mediators, which includes amides and esters of long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids. Anandamide (I) and 2-arachidonoylglycerol (II) are the main endogenous agonists of cannabinoid receptors, able to mimic several pharmacological effects of delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (III), the active principle of Cannabis sativa preparations such as hashish and marijuana. The pathways leading to the synthesis and release of anandamide and 2-arachidonoylglycerol from neuronal and nonneuronal cells are rather uncertain. Instead, evidence has accumulated showing that the activity of these compounds at their specific receptors is limited by cellular uptake through a specific membrane transporter, followed by intracellular degradation by a fatty acid amide hydrolase. Here, the endocannabinoids and the endocannabinoid-like compounds most relevant for human physiology will be discussed, along with the synthetic and degradative pathways of anandamide and 2-arachidonoylglycerol and their molecular targets on the cell surface. The main actions of the endocannabinoids in human cells and tissues will also be reviewed, focusing on the activities most recently discovered in the central nervous system and in the periphery.
Getting back to the correlation between cannabis and schizophrenia, more reasonable (in my humble opinion) reviews have been recently published.
Curr Psychiatry Rep 2002 Jun;4(3):191-6
Cannabis and psychosis.Degenhardt L, Hall W.
National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia, 2502. l.degenhardt@unsw.edu.au
There has been considerable debate about the reasons for the association observed between cannabis use and psychosis in both clinical and general population samples. Among the hypotheses proposed to explain the association are the following: 1) common factors explain the co-occurrence; 2 cannabis causes psychosis that would not have occurred in the absence of cannabis use; 3) cannabis precipitates psychosis among persons who were vulnerable to developing the disorders; 4) cannabis use worsens or prolongs psychosis among those who have already developed the disorder; and 5) that persons with psychosis are more likely to become regular or problematic cannabis users than persons without psychosis. This article evaluates the evidence on each of these hypotheses, including recent research on the role of the cannabinoid receptor system in schizophrenia. The evidence suggests that common factors do not explain the comorbidity between cannabis use and psychosis, and it is unlikely that cannabis use causes psychosis among persons who would otherwise not have developed the disorder. The evidence is more consistent with the hypotheses that cannabis use may precipitate psychosis among vulnerable individuals, increase the risk of relapse among those who have already developed the disorder, and may be more likely to lead to dependence in persons with schizophrenia.
In the following study, you will see that alcohol abuse and tobacco use are more strongly correlated to schizophrenia than is cannabis, but they don't fit into the "war on drugs" "reefer madness" concept.Actas Esp Psiquiatr 2002 Mar-Apr;30(2):65-73
[Relevance of drug use in clinical manifestations of schizophrenia][Article in Spanish]
Arias Horcajadas F, Sanchez Romero S, Padin Calo JJ.
Unidad de Psiquiatria, Fundacion Hospital Alcorcon, Alcorcon, Madrid, Spain. farias@fhalcorcon.es
OBJECTIVES: To study the association between drugs use with schizophrenia clinical manifestations. MATERIAL AND METHODS: The sample consists of 82 out-patients with schizophrenia, between 18 and 45 years old. They were evaluated with Addiction Severity Index (ASI) and with Positive and Negative Syndrome Scale (PANSS). A 6 months follow up was carried out. RESULTS: 37,8% patients had lifetime drug dependence (including alcohol and others drugs except for tobacco). The prevalence of dependence for the different drugs were: opioids 9,8%, cocaine 11%, alcohol 29,3%, cannabis 24,4%, tobacco 68,3%, caffeine 15,9%. Drug dependent had more family and legal problems. At the multiple regression analysis it was observed that cannabis and tobacco dependence was associated with a decrease in the PANSS negative symptoms subscale, and on the contrary, alcohol dependence produces a similar intensity increase at that scoring. We don't detect any clinical relevance effects over positive symptoms. CONCLUSIONS: Cannabis and tobacco may improve schizophrenia negative symptoms or neuroleptic secondary effects or patients with few negative symptoms may have more predisposition to the use, on the contrary alcohol use can impairment those symptoms.
I hope my views are not overwhelming, but will instead stimulate debate about the subject.Lar
Posted by oracle on December 30, 2002, at 14:59:45
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia » oracle, posted by comftnumb on December 29, 2002, at 23:50:16
Given the clear evidence to a genetic cause
for schizophrenia I cannot see how pot could cause it. I will agree that starting smoking pot
could be seen as a "trigger" for schizophrenia.
But I would say that the schizophrenia would of started sooner or later.However, amoung the folks I know, they report
that the start of drug use was a sign of the psychotic break that was to come. So drug use did not cuase or trigger it but was a sign that things were changing for the worse.Some folks with schizophrenia find pot to be of benefit.
Posted by jimmygold70 on December 30, 2002, at 17:56:17
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by rotem on December 30, 2002, at 3:23:40
> offffffff, I called Dr Schrieber and he doesn't accept patients- not privately and not publicly. He deals only with hospitalized people.
> what to do ?
>
> Also coping my previeus question:
>
>
> Thank you very much jimmy
> I want to make clear what kind of pdoc I'm looking for in the
> hope you know about someone like that, or maybe even Dr. Schreiber fits this
> expanded description.
> 1. Knowledgeable in psychopharmacology as much as Weizman, with a biological orientations, not a psychotherapy orientation. I don't want him to try psychotherapy on me, but to concentrate on the biology, because I'm seeing a psychologist for the psychotherapy.Unfortunately there aren't many, and I can't think of one. I used to give some advice to one major psychopharmacologist. He had little knowledge of it, unfortunately. A good person, though.
> 2.Have intuition and can diagnose, so he can fit the medicine to my psych (be a good "interface" between me and the medicines). Someone who knows the fine fine distinctions of depression, and not generalize: "depression, anxiety, a little obsessive, so take SSRI". and that's it because the leading theory today links this to Serotonin. I want someone who can, for example, diagnose if my condition is appropriate for dopaminergics (such as mirapex, Amineptine bromocriptine amantadine minaprine Permax pramipexole Cabergoline ,Ropinirole amisulpride etc') or not, and save me a painful experience if not.
You should take this more easily. Nobody knows exactly the exact mechanisms of drugs. They are only hypothetised. There is a lot of intuition going there. Weizman is not bad at it. He IS costy and, to say, somewhat greedy.
> 3. Someone with A LOT of patience, who will sit with me for an hour (not 20 minutes..), and I can ask questions in psychopharmacology and get answers, not patronizing "you don't need to understand pharmacology" or "your need to understand pharmacology shows you have OCD" (which is partly true, but still i think legitimate).
You have a lot to learn. Read the new Kaplan & Zadock's Synopsis of Psychiatry - 2003 edition. It is now available on amazon.com. Costy, but worth the wealthy knowledge. Costs less than one PDoc session, even if you order it via express mail (you are in pressure, are'nt you). From the moment I found out that NO physician, no matter how knowledgable, can make better guesses than me - I started reading. A lot.
> 4. With an open mind. Someone who is prepared to commit himself to help me find a solution, even if the medicines are not available in Israel (for example mirapex). Unlike Weizman, who is "small head"- if the medicine isn't available in Israel, ignores it.Most will.
> Of course, the psychiatrist needs to know about the medicines, even if he hasn't experience in using them in Israel. I also want him to be able to help me import them, for example sign form 29c.
> 5. I'm sensitive to medicines and reacts very strongly even at low dosages. So I need the pdoc to take me seriously and to consider if my reactions justify stopping, or the medicine is still the most suitable.
> (for example he would also explain to me why this happens from a pharmacological view and not say I'm histrionic).
> Unlike one psychiatrist who told me that if I don't take a reasonable dosage for a long time he doesn't want to work with me. I understand the logic rational for this attitude, but there is a limit to my ability to suffer, and the pdoc should differentiate between reasonable reaction and unreasonably harsh response.
> Unfortunately I've been to 2 psychiatrist privately who behaved like in "Kupat Holim", with stock answers and "small head".
> Hope you didnt lost in my long description...
> Thanks for your help
> eager to hear your response
> Neta
Neta, I guess you need someone with great patience above all. Dr. Raul Lipnik (03-7512316) is for you. He is hard to get. Maybe he is not 100% into psychopharmacology, but he knows how to ask others. I know others who have time and will sign anything you give them and whatever, but they are a waste of your time.I think we can talk on the phone I'm tired of writing. Give me you phone number and I'll call you.
Jimmy
>
Posted by FredPotter on December 30, 2002, at 21:11:00
In reply to Re: Beardedlady, 2 marijuana/schizo links for you, posted by Larry Hoover on December 30, 2002, at 9:22:18
Sorry for my previous post. Well said. I agree with you
Posted by rotem on December 31, 2002, at 6:34:09
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by jimmygold70 on December 30, 2002, at 17:56:17
thanks very very much jimmy.
I want very much to talk with you on the phone.
But I am afraid to publicize my number. can you give me e-mail to where I can write the number?my email is netaor@hotmail.co.il
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2002, at 17:21:43
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by jimmygold70 on December 30, 2002, at 17:56:17
> Read the new Kaplan & Zadock's Synopsis of Psychiatry - 2003 edition.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
But I don't mean to be pushy. Did you deliberately not use it to link to Amazon? If so, I'd be interested in why, over at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by jimmygold70 on January 1, 2003, at 17:25:44
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists, posted by rotem on December 31, 2002, at 6:34:09
Ye, send it to jimmygold70@yahoo.com
Just tell me that you have sent this, since I don't check my eMail that often...> thanks very very much jimmy.
> I want very much to talk with you on the phone.
> But I am afraid to publicize my number. can you give me e-mail to where I can write the number?
>
> my email is netaor@hotmail.co.il
Posted by rotem on January 1, 2003, at 17:46:06
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists » rotem, posted by jimmygold70 on January 1, 2003, at 17:25:44
I sent my phone number to your e-mail
thanks
Posted by Vince on January 2, 2003, at 16:47:28
In reply to Re: Marijuana triggered my schizophrenia, posted by comftnumb on December 25, 2002, at 23:43:22
I smoked marijuana in the late 60's. I became very depressed. This was my first ever episode of depression. I never fully recovered and have had some degree of depression since. My life has never seemed normal since.
I've read an article recently linking the use of marijuana to depression unfortunately I can't remember the source.
Vince
Posted by michael73 on January 3, 2003, at 13:21:54
In reply to What's so bad about Marijuana?, posted by JonW on December 25, 2002, at 9:04:44
I've never been able to relate to people reporting that marijuana helps them. In fact that's largely why I ever did it more than once - wondering what was wrong with me. If I was able to calm down I enjoyed it, but for the most part it was only a terrible and often horrifying experience of anxiety and paranoia. It always makes me feel like I'm dying for at least part of the time. Not much of a therapy for me! It made me worry about derealization after my first time, something I don't think I was really aware of before. I have no trouble believing that it could induce or trigger schizophrenia. My advice - don't play with fire - the mind is more fragile then you may realize . Michael73
Posted by tancu on January 4, 2003, at 11:34:02
In reply to Re: What's so bad about Marijuana?, posted by michael73 on January 3, 2003, at 13:21:54
Hello to everyone, and thank you all very much for sharing your experiences. Upon reading the entire thread I felt compelled to offer up some facts about cannabis that have gone unmentioned thus far. Scientists in the late 80’s classified marijuana as a “natural psychedelic”, although there is no evidence that it typically produces the visual hallucinations associated with the use of other natural psychedelics such as mescaline (Physiological Psychology 3d ed. 1986). What makes this classification seem haphazard is the nearly complete absence, well into the 1980’s, of scientific research into marijuana’s effects on the nervous system. It seems to have been classified as a psychedelic simply because it alters consciousness in a way that has yet to be clearly defined. I invite anyone who believes that the neurological effects of marijuana and the cellular mechanisms involved are even remotely defined to spend an hour or so reviewing the literature. You will immediately notice a very large number of incongruities. Perhaps the most obvious incongruity is the notion perpetuated by our government that marijuana is best classified as a “dangerous drug with no medicinal use”—a “Class 1 narcotic”—possessed and used by “criminals”. The definition of “narcotic” is any substance (usually an opiate) that induces profound sleep, lethargy, and relief of pain. Marijuana is clearly not derived from the opium poppy, and while varying doses may induce “profound sleep” in some people others report anxiety, confusion, paranoia, withdrawal, talkativeness, elation, enhanced sensation and creativity, increased libido, the munchies, etc. There could easily be hundreds of psychosocial factors at work here that may prove to be as “affective” as the hundreds of psychopharmacological and neurological factors that clearly exist in “some” form to “some” extent. I won’t even mention the facts that fiberboard made from hemp (even the kind that don’t get’cha high) is stronger than concrete, that hemp textiles/cloth are hundreds of times stronger than current materials such as cotton, or that you don’t need pesticides to grow hemp…thanks.
IMHO--pot is truly a mystery...we seem to know more about black-holes and quantum physics than we know about pot...wonder why?
Posted by FredPotter on January 5, 2003, at 14:15:24
In reply to Re: What's so bad about Marijuana?, posted by tancu on January 4, 2003, at 11:34:02
Specifically, in my case, I got panicky when I smoked pot once because my short-term memory was continually disappearing and I seemed to lose my sense of self. With practice perhaps I could have relaxed into this and enjoyed it. Still, it's good to have a friend nearby when smoking dope
Posted by rotem on January 5, 2003, at 18:19:34
In reply to Re: to jimmygold70- characterizing psychiatrists » rotem, posted by jimmygold70 on January 1, 2003, at 17:25:44
I e-mailed you my number
please please call me
I have to have a good pdoc
Posted by rotem on January 7, 2003, at 15:43:35
In reply to jimmygold- waiting DESPERATELY for your phone call, posted by rotem on January 5, 2003, at 18:19:34
I want to add that, because of my depression, I don't answer the phone. I let the answering machine answer, "filtering out". So when you call me, please, talk to the answering machine, say: "it's jimmy" or whatever. I live alone, so you can say anything. and if I am at home I will right away answer. Of course , sometimes, I am really not at home.
waiting desperately for your call
thanks
neta
Posted by rotem on January 7, 2003, at 15:47:59
I want to add that, because of my depression, I don't answer the phone. I let the answering machine answer, "filtering out". So when you call me, please, talk to the answering machine, say: "it's jimmy" or whatever. I live alone, so you can say anything. and if I am at home I will right away answer. Of course , sometimes, I am really not at home.
waiting desperately for your call
thanks
neta
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