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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
i'm trying to loose weight... have pcos... and bipolar...am now on klonapin and provigil... i hate low carb because it makes my mood horrible... has anyone ever lost weight on just a regular healthy lowered fat..moderate protein..moderate carb diet?? im going nuts here...
Posted by bampf on December 27, 2002, at 10:28:30
In reply to also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
maybe you could try the lo carb but supplement it with fish oil to stave of mood swings
Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2002, at 10:44:16
In reply to also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
Eat a moderate amount of carbs, but make
sure it whole wheat stuff. Restrict meat
to lean, and possibly fish - good for diet
- good for bipolar. When it comes to weight
excercise is really more important than
food intake.My moms on lithium and it does make it more
difficult to loose weight for two reasons.
Increased apetite and decreased energy.
If it seems like the meds are causeing the
stumbling block, talk to your doctor
about alternative mood stabalizers.
Eliminating or severtly restricting any
food group when you have a mental illness
is deadly. No offense but being a vegan
can be devistating if you have a mental illness.Good Luck
Linkadge
Posted by viridis on December 27, 2002, at 14:29:37
In reply to also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
Re: your previous question about Provigil and Klonopin: I didn't stay on Provigil long enough to notice any weight change either way, but it did seem to decrease my appetite somewhat. Klonopin doesn't have any effect on my weight that I can detect.
I don't want to get into a long discussion about diets, carbohydrates, etc., but will just offer a few comments. There was a major analysis of the many specialty diets released a year or so ago (I think it was conducted by the FDA), involving thousands of people. No one diet or food restriction stood out as better than any other; the overwhelming factor was simply overall caloric intake, regardless of the type of food from which the calories were obtained. Moderate caloric intake, coupled with adequate exercise, seems to be the best strategy for weight loss and maintenance for the average person.
Of course, this is for the "average" person, and maybe some of the specialty diets really do work for certain individuals. However, I'd be leery about a diet that severely restricts a major food group (e.g., carbs), especially if you're already struggling with an illness, mental or otherwise.
For a long time, I tried to really limit the amount of fat in my diet. I don't have a major weight problem, but could stand to lose a bit. A few months ago I got into the omega 3 thing (fish oil, flax oil, etc.) for various reasons, and now I take a fair amount of these as both supplements and foods each day. They do seem to contribute to my overall stability, although I still take medications as well. I also stopped worrying so much about fat intake and use some oils (especially olive oil) fairly liberally. Otherwise my diet (which is quite good and balanced) hasn't changed, and I get a reasonable level of exercise (about the same as before). What's interesting is that I consistently weigh about 10 lbs less than I did prior to increasing my fat intake.
This might just be coincidence, but I suspect it has to do with the fats filling me up, and thus decreasing my overall intake of foods slightly. This was an unexpected plus, because the evidence for the health benefits of the omega 3s in particular seems quite strong, and at least some people appear to derive mental health benefits from them. It also seems that more and more doctors and nutritionists are starting to reconsider the low-fat dogma that's been around since the 70s or so.
Anyway, these are just some observations; I'm not a nutritionist, but am pleased with the (presumed) results of relaxing my anti-fat stance. I have no plans to cut way back on carbs; several people I know who have done so have been very uncomfortable and quickly gained back any weight they lost when they resumed a normal carbohydrate intake.
I do think the advice to try to maximize the amounts of whole grains (as opposed to highly refined carbohydrates such as white flour) is sound. These are metabolized more gradually (so less shock to your system in terms of insulin release etc.) and are likely to contain a broader spectrum of nutrients.
Posted by john7219 on December 27, 2002, at 15:41:45
In reply to also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
EXERCISE!!! Helps with your mental and physical health.
Posted by jsarirose on December 27, 2002, at 16:13:09
In reply to also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
> i'm trying to loose weight... have pcos... and bipolar...am now on klonapin and provigil... i hate low carb because it makes my mood horrible... has anyone ever lost weight on just a regular healthy lowered fat..moderate protein..moderate carb diet?? im going nuts here...
I also have PCOS. First, I strongly suggest joining a good PCOS support/info group. Yahoo has a couple good ones (I'm on PCOSWA which is a Washington State group, and PCOHOlistic, and PCOS-Whiskers).
Second, just a low carb diet is doomed to failure for many. I have finally lost weight after years of gaining by adding more grains, vegetables, healthy foods (and taking an anti-depressent that helped - Parnate). I also started seeing a nutritionist (my insurance actually covers her) and she had some great hints. For example, if you do eat carbs, don't eat them alone. Try to eat some protein, even a handful of nuts, with them. PCOS is often a pre-cursor to Diabetes II and is sometimes a sign of insulin resistance. But having protein with the carb, it keeps your blood sugar from spiking. Also, fiber helps the carbs pass through your body. Fiber also helps rid the body of excess Estrogen.
If you've been recently diagnosed, it's important to try to learn as much as possible about PCOS. There are many things you can do now to ward of some of the effects later. Feel free to email directly if you'd like to talk or want more info. sources.
-Jessica (jsarirose1@attbi.com)
Posted by Aadika on December 28, 2002, at 3:14:03
In reply to Re: also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by jsarirose on December 27, 2002, at 16:13:09
I've got to say I whole-heartedly agree with Bampf and John on this one... fish oil supplements (or even better, if you're a fish-lover like I am, oily fish) can work wonderfully for those who initially may seem to be intolerant to a restricted carbohydrate diet. There are, of course, many other ways... large doses of inositol (up to 18g / day), niacinamide (NOT NIACIN!! --your brain's NATURAL benzodiazepine receptor agonist, in a dose between 1500-3000mg / day seems to work almost without fail [and, I might add, this is something that ANYONE with anxiety disorders should discuss with their physicians]), and finally, go to puritanspride.com and check out their product "Green Source". It's an absolutely phenomenal high-potency multivitamin + B-complex + bioflavonoids, quercetin, choline, rutin, hesperidin, bromelain, betaine HCl, amylase, lipase, protease, cellulase, a proprietary lactobacillus blend, oat bran, pectin, RNA, DNA, carotenoids, chlorphyll, vegetable oil (from borage and sunflower), l-glutathione, spirulina, wheat grass juice, sprouted barley juice, flaxseed oil, Chinese chlorella, bee pollen, Siberian ginseng, garlic, echinacea, milk thistle, goldenseal, ginger root, gingko biloba, and cayenne pepper. A WONDERFUL, low-cost supplement that replaces all those important anti-oxidants you're missing out on by not eating fruits, large quantities of vegetables, etc., and then some. In addition, I'd highly recommend taking 400-800mcg / day of chromium polynicotinate (NOT chromium picolinate, as picolinate has recently been implicated as a cause of DNA mutogenesis, DEFINITELY not a good thing), along with l-carnitine, 500-2000mg / day (which aids in metabolism). And since carb-restricted diets deprive you of potassium, it would be wise to discuss a prescription potassium supplement, as this is a very important electrolyte. OTC potassium supplements are limited by the FDA to contain 99mg of elemental potassium, about 2% of the recommended daily intake (though I'm not quite sure why...). Oh, and one more thing, if you decide to go the Green Source route, it would be wise to supplement with 100mcg / day of selenium as well as 800-2000 IUs of natural vitamin E.
As far as low-fat dieting is concerned, yes, it CAN work, but absolutely EVERYONE I've seen go on a low-fat diet has complained of lack of energy, extreme hunger, and, once the weight is off, a haggard and "aged-beyond-their-years" appearance. Low-carb dieters, on the other hand, generally tend to be happier, fuller, and healthier-looking (not to mention healthier on the inside, as has been shown by the recent Atkins vs. American Heart Association diet study).
I have been on a low-carb diet for several months and have been losing weight at an ASTOUNDING rate, have never felt better in my life, sleep regular hours, have noticed a huge increase in energy (including a mild euphoria), and (the icing on the cake) have noticed a DRAMATIC reduction in anxiety and a marked improvement in self-esteem. I even was able to quit smoking recently cold-turkey after being a 7-year heavy smoker-- with NO outside assistance (patch, gum, etc.) and NO withdrawal discomfort whatsoever!
I've recently had a physical and my cholesterol, triglycerides, glucose tolerance, etc. are all (at last!) consistent with others my age (19) who are in good health. And exercise is a MUST. I personally find jogging for 45 minutes every morning and weight training every other day to be a crucial part of not only my weight loss plan, but my LIFE.
I strongly urge you to give this way of eating another chance... perhaps you simply weren't supplementing yourself properly? Well, I just wanted to share my experience and hope that you find something that works for you. :-)
All the best,
~ Aadika
Posted by up on December 29, 2002, at 17:02:54
In reply to also...low carb... or lower cals? for pcos?, posted by biovsenvio? on December 27, 2002, at 8:11:58
yes! i've just started to work at losing weight after my baby. a good friend in the nutrition field gave me a helpful hint. balance. i balance my protein and carb intake, with carbs slightly higher. just add a veggie here, a fruit there and force some water down. i'm done with the food part. work out with a tv program 3 days a week. she said Keep It Simple Sweetie, make it easy. i'm down 5 pds. in 2 weeks. feeling better since exercising. up
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