![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tai on October 12, 2002, at 22:14:50
** I just realized how long this thread is, I hope somebody can make it all the way through**
Hello everyone,
I have been scrolling through and reading alot of these threads, to see what people have and still are going through. I don't know what I am expecting to find; inspiration, confirmation, similarities to my own experiences...
I have so many questions that only time will tell, but I hope my story will provide some answers to some people.
I suffer from severe depression, vegetative depression as my doctor offers, and also a high state of anxiety. For years I rode a roller coaster of emotions, from soaring highs to crushing lows. Throughout those years there was a steady inflow of illegal drugs into my system which allowed me to escape from my reality. At a certain point the drug use got out of hand and I realized I had to stop before it consumed me.
About 2 months after I stopped the drug use I found myself on a steady descent into that awful black hole of hopelessness that is my depression. I was living in a constant state of anxiety and could not even muster a smile. I dropped out of college and quit my job. I didn't understand what was happening to me. My mind was out of control and felt like a separate entity to my body. It felt as if my mind was pushing my body to take my life, like that was the only option I had. I stopped sleeping for weeks, and on one of those sleepless nights, I made my way to the local greyhound and bought the first ticket out of town. I cashed out all of my credit cards and embarked on a journey that would take me from one small town to another all the way across the country. I felt as if I was running from death. If I stayed anywhere too long I was going to kill myself. Eventually I ended up deep in Mexico. I had not talked to my family or friends for over a month, and no one knew what had happened to me. I was running low on cash and had to face my destiny soon.
Somehow I realized that I didnt want to die, I wanted to enjoy life. I just didnt know how, but I knew I needed help. I used my frequent flyer miles and got a plane ticket back home. weeks later when my friends and family asked me where the hell I was, I nonchalantly told them I had gone to mexico. Nobody quite understood what happened including myself.
Jesus, I think I need to condense this story a little...
Anyways, began taking zoloft; 50mg at first and eventually up to 200mg. Somewhere through all the thick haze of unhappiness that I was bogged down in I saw a light, and I slowly got on the long difficult road towards the light. The first 2 months was quite a strange trip. As my body adjusted to this new drug I went through all kinds of uncomfortable side effects. Mostly that spaced out feeling, where I feel like I am about 2 feet behind my actual body, merely watching what I am doing. Slowly, my anxiety went away, and the depression let up to happiness. Mind you, it was full of setbacks along the way. But I would say after about 3 months I finally settled into a comfortable routine; I was sleeping regularly, was confident, and most of all was happy. I mean really really happy. The zoloft had let the color back into my life. It wasnt easy though, I had to learn to be me again, but it eventually paid off.
I enjoyed the next 6 months full of curiosity and interest. I was finally getting the most out of life. The only negative was the lack of sex drive, and the games it played on my private area. I had a couple of girlfriends during that time, and although I could have sex, it was pretty bad. But the relationships didnt last, so I never had to really face my sexual disfunctions, and honestly didnt care, I was that happy.
Fast forward to about 6 months or so...
I got a girlfriend that I really liked and really cared about. We were spending alot of time together, and trying to have lots of sex. It was very mediocre, and I was getting frustrated because I knew it could be better. I finally stopped taking the zoloft in a fit of frustration cold turkey. This was really my first round with prescription drugs and I had no idea the awful withdrawal I was about to go through. **all zoloft users, please note, you must taper off slowly, really slow**
That was over this past summer. Afterwards I found myself on that familiar path to familiar place that so many of us have been in; back into the pit of despair. This time round the anxiety wasnt so bad, but the depression was the worst I had expereinced in my whole life. I was so hopeless I tried to kill myself one afternoon. Got all my pills together and downed ambien, and remerol, and trazacdone, and xanax, and valium, and asprin...maybe 100 hundred pills in all. I passed out and basically stayed unconscious for 3 days. I would come to and stumble to the bathroom to puke and drink water. Even after I came to, I could barely stand, focus...but somehow it didn't work. My doctos asks me if I am happy about not dying, and I still feel indifferent about it. I hate how I am living right now, I feel like a spectator in life, not a participant. And as always has been, suicide is not that far off of an option, like that little devil sitting on your shoulder whispering in your ear. If I try again, there will most definately be no second chances.
So where am I right now?? On prozac since aug. 14, on full dosage (80mg) for about 3-4 weeks now. I didnt want to go back to zoloft because I wanted to try to find something that crush my libido. So far prozac had been pretty much a dissapointment. I have leveled out a little, but no where near happy. I cant even remember what happy feels like. I dropped out of college for the 2nd time in 3 semesters and once again quit my job. I am just playing the waiting game, wainting for some sign that things are going to get better, but nothing so far.
The prozac has made me numb to emotion; if I was a food I would be tasteless, if I was a chemical I would be odorless, I feel completely bland. Although the prozac has allowed me to function and carry out daily activities, there is no spark inside of me, no vibrance.
Two weeks ago I started on welbutrin as a way to maybe activate the prozac. 10 days into it i was feeling nauseus and dizzy. My physical fitness, which throught was the one thing that never left me, has markedly declined. At the end of two weeks I stopped the welbutrin.
This finally brings me to the present; still on 80mgs prozac and two days into the beginning of my newest endeavor; effexor xr. I have decided this is going to be my last shot, I am going to give it 3 more weeks and if no improvement, then I will have to make a very serious decision about myself.
I guess what I was hoping to get out of this story, was one to give hope to zoloft users and let them know that it worked wonderfully for me, and secondly to get some reactions from anyone else with similar expereince on prozac, I mean its been about 2 months now, does it get better? And what about the effexor xr, any positive experiences with that? Will it take away in an athletic sense? Nausea, dizzy?
Any responses would be great, I want all the info I can get on these drugs. I would love to keep writing and get more in depth about where I have been and gone through; highs and lows...but i am afraid no one will read anymore. I don't even know if anyone read down this far.
So if anyone managed to stay with my story for this long, thank you, I would love to hear your response, however long it may be.
Posted by GabbiX2 on October 12, 2002, at 23:20:10
In reply to my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some, posted by tai on October 12, 2002, at 22:14:50
Tai, I read your story, all the way through.
I don't have any platitudes or it'll be okay type of comments, not that they aren't valid but because after years of battling the ups and downs of depression last week I made the same pact you did. After realizing the effexor I 'd been given recently was making me worse, and now I have to withdraw from it I decided I'd give myself two more weeks and then have to make a major decision.
My body is ravaged and tired from the medications.
My life has slowly eroded to the point where if I'm feeling well there is little for me to do anyway. I've alienated or exhausted many friends and family.
Oh gosh, I'm sorry this is the Med board...
I'll stop here. Welcome to the social board though if you want to talk more there.
Posted by denise528 on October 14, 2002, at 11:38:04
In reply to Re: my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some, posted by GabbiX2 on October 12, 2002, at 23:20:10
Tai,
I don't understand, if Zooloft worked really well for you then why don't you go back on it? I know you didn't like the sexual side effects but surely having those is better than being completely miserable.
I know which one I'd prefer, I'd give anything for Zooloft to work for me again, with or without a sexual libido.
Denise
Posted by wcfrench on October 14, 2002, at 14:02:58
In reply to my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some, posted by tai on October 12, 2002, at 22:14:50
Tai
Let me start off by saying that there are a lot of people who really love you and care about you and for you to take your own life would not only be a waste, but it would be very selfish. And you should think about that and realize that it is not the way out. I have been there, and so have thousands of others. And several others on this board have attempted suicide and come out of deep depression and will tell you to just hold on. I don't know how far I am from there, but we have to take each day as it comes. I read your story and so will many others, because even we care about you.
I've been through my share of meds. Effexor, Paxil, Seroquel, Geodon, Klonopin, Neurontin, Remeron. I'm now on Lithium, Zoloft, and Wellbutrin. The last 2 and a half months of my life I had a very unsuccessful bout with Remeron where my life was completely dry, emotionless, and I couldn't have any fun. I climbed mount Whitney, the tallest mountain in the lower 48 states (14,552), and didn't really enjoy it. I ran cross country in college so it wasn't very difficult for me, but nonetheless I was at the top of the mountain and not really giving a crap. I hated it. I took a road trip from California to Arkansas, going to Las Vegas, Yosemite, the Grand Canyon, and all of it was bland. When you're depressed, you carry it wherever you go. And when you're depressed, it can eat at your athletic ability. I ran after college to keep in shape, but when I got pretty bad I stopped running. It becomes difficult to stay in shape when you're depressed, and often it can make you feel anergetic and weaker than you really are. Ask anyone. That's what happens to me.. I feel sort of tired all the time and have no motivation.
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that maybe Prozac isn't the right thing for you. Sometimes, an antidepressant just doesn't do the trick for various reasons. I got a "dud" with the Remeron, and several other people have tried some meds and received nearly no response but have been very successful on others. Sometimes your chemistry just doesn't click with a med. Also, there are several other things you can try. You can add Lithium to augment an antidepressant and act as a mood stabilizer, often it is very effective. And there are MANY other medicines and therapies out there, so don't think you're anywhere near the end of your rope. There are MAOIs, Benzodiazepines, tricyclics, antipsychotics, and there's always ECT. I think you should seriously consider psychotherapy and you should TELL YOUR DOC that you are seriously suicidal. You at least owe it to yourself to tell others how you feel. No one deserves to feel the despair that you are going through, but there are others out there that have it as bad, and many that have it worse. Trust me. Tell your doctor your meds are not working and ask about Lithium as an adjunctive treatment and maybe Benzos, like Xanax. They can take the edge off big time, and are often helpful in the roughest of our times. You need to start feeling better, and if your doc won't put you on something else if you still feel that way, leave him for another. What you are feeling is not acceptable.
And most importantly, remember that many of your thoughts are depressed thoughts and you are only experiencing that because of how you feel. You have to be patient, and yes, I know it sucks. Try to find therapy in things that make you happy. I know through experience that almost nothing can make you happy when you feel that way, but find whatever it may be and cling to it. For me, I found a lot of therapeutic response with music. I don't mean rock, or classical, or rap or country. But good music that you can relate to. I would be more than happy to send you a CD and share some of this with you. Let me know what kind of stuff you like.
Remember this. I read this somewhere, and I'll share it with you. Everything is OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.
Wishing you the best, and hoping to hear back from you.
-Charlie
Posted by tai on October 14, 2002, at 17:18:37
In reply to Re: my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some » tai, posted by wcfrench on October 14, 2002, at 14:02:58
charlie-
hey, I think I just dropped you a message earlier about being "drunk on zoloft"...was that you?
Anyways, I really appreciate that message. I especially like your quote at the end. I have only been checking this website for a few days, but already I know that there are so many people that are not well, and so many people who have been in that hole. I want to tell everyone to hang on and that things will get better, but when its yourself you tend not to believe those words.
Im definately feeling better than I did when I posted that message. It just seems that I have to walk all the way to the edge and kind of dangle over before I get a little reprive. This is how its been going, there is a little shaft of light and then before I know it I am heading towards that same cliff. Let me tell you, I don't want to die, but I also don't want to live like this. If I cant enjoy my friends, my family, people I know love me...thats not living. When the music you love no longer moves you, and the hobbies you enjoy no longer interest you...I refuse to be a spectator in life, I want to be an active participant.
But like I said, I seem to have bought myself some time, because here I am for the 2nd day in a row feeling not so bad...still cant sleep worth a dam, but...The wellbutrin was making me sick, but the effexor xr seems to have a positive effect, or the prozac is finally working, I don't know. The sad part is, this whole experimentation with drugs was so I could try and find one or a combination that would not effect my sex drive. But I have a feeling its not going to be at its peak anyway.
I think the toughest part is the waiting, having the patience to let the meds have some time to work. I just get so impatient because I feel like I am just wasting away. Like my whole life is on hold.
You have probably heard this all before and I dont want to bring my positive vibes down for the day, so I am gonna cut myself off here, otherwise theres gonna be another term paper length message. But listen, I am awful hard on myself, I know, but always willing to listen to others, so if you ever want to talk or whatever, just put up a post.
Thanks again for your support.
Posted by wcfrench on October 14, 2002, at 19:24:21
In reply to Re: my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some, posted by tai on October 14, 2002, at 17:18:37
Good to hear you are feeling a bit better!
Thanks for responding to my post, I wrote some more in that thread. I know exactly what you mean when you say your life is on hold. I remember feeling like that. I tried to run through my depression (I was running everyday when I felt good) and it just got so bad that I had to stop, it wasn't worth it. Whatever I felt from running seemed to not be there anymore. I just didn't feel the pleasure, the benefit, the purpose, it was just painful. It's so wierd how chemicals in your brain that control emotion and feelings can also affect how good you feel when you exercise. Amazing.
Have you ever just felt like things weren't OK? I tried explaining it to my sister, who was, at the time, telling me to get a job. I was trying to explain that when you think about your life, or what you're doing in your life, normally you get a "things are OK" feeling, but when you're depressed, something just tells you that things are not right. Well, since then, some of that has gone away, and things definitely seem a little easier with this drunk feeling. Before it was like I'd think about getting a job (Computer Science) and I'd be scared of working on a project.. or I'd think about fixing my car and I would get this bad feeling, like I couldn't do it or I was going to start doing it and just not enjoy it. I hated it so much. Now I just kind of do it and that feeling is mostly gone. It was definitely not normal, because those are things I had always enjoyed or at least not complained about. It was like anything that required extensive thought or dedication was too difficult because the thought of completing a task like that was simply exhausting.
If you are really concerned with your sex drive you might ask your doc about Lexapro or Remeron. They are not supposed to affect sex drive at all, and Remeron didn't for me. Also, does he/she want to keep you on those three antidepressants at once? I'm not a doc, but I know most people usually take Wellbutrin and an SSRI, but usually not 2 SSRIs. (Effexor also works on norepinephrine but it's mostly the same) I wonder if once you start the Effexor your doc will taper you off of the Prozac?
Also, not sleeping can be a big contributor to how you feel, so you really should address that. Prozac and to a greater extent Wellbutrin are both activating medicines. If you take either at night or in the afternoon I can see why you cannot sleep. I have friends that couldn't get to sleep for hours even after taking Wellbutrin in the morning. It might be better for you to be on a med that helps you sleep, like Remeron, which you take before bed. Anyway, definitely discuss it with your doc if you can because sleep is important in the fight against depression. For lots of people it has worked wonders for their sleep cycle and has lifted some heavy depression. I already slept like a log, so needless to say it wasn't a very good med for me :) .. Also I hope if you don't get full response with those meds that you ask your doc about other med possibilities, because for many, including myself, SSRIs are just not powerful enough alone.
And don't worry about posting long posts. There's always people that will read them. I've found that the longest posts are usually the best ones anyway. You might enjoy my posts in the "Any artists/musicians out there on meds?" thread. I wrote of my adventures on Geodon... pretty entertaining, at least when I read it. But isn't it always when we read about ourself!
Take care,
CharlieP.S. I just read this and realized how long it was. My rule does not apply in this case. :)
Posted by tai on October 15, 2002, at 11:10:40
In reply to Re: my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some, posted by wcfrench on October 14, 2002, at 19:24:21
Charlie,
heya, sounds like we been through many similar situations. The excercise is truly frustrating part. I have always been an "active" kind of guy, and besides those times when you are in such a funk you cant even get out of bed, let alone excercise, I have pretty much always been able to stay active. To me it is amazing how a mental state can so thouroughly drain you physically. Mind and body really do work together, and if one is not well it looks like it certainly affects the other. But in these 4 days since I dropped the welbutrin I am beginning to get my energy back. Of course, the restless sleep doesnt help, but since I have no job, no school...I don't really have to get up for anything. That is a bad cycle to be in, I know. I would like to get a job and start saving some money and paying some debts, but before I have confidence in being able to go to sleep at night, I am afraid to get a job that will require me to come in in the morning. I cant stand being that guy that doesnt sleep, and comes in wearing that ass face every morning. It makes people uncomfortable around me, and me uncomfortable around people. I tried remeron for awhile, and sleep was really enjoyable at night, but I found that I would wake up with a sleep hangover, leaving me in the same non alert state as if I hadnt slept. I think I just need to find the right med or combination of, and then sleep will become regular again.
I am optomistic about you, though. Zoloft was fantastic for me, and it kind of sounds like you are kind of on the same route as I was; where you are starting to not feel so bad, but still a little unsure of yourself. It should get better, and better from this point on. Of course I dont know your history, and everybody does react differently, but at least this is one positive case which you can look forward to.
I am considering going back on the zoloft. The whole point of trying something new was to see if there was something out there that could relieve me of the sexual disfunctions, which my doctors were quite confident about. But from everything I have read, it seems like that is something I will have to sacrifice in exchange for my own well being. I have been reading alot about how people go back on the same meds later on, but they don't neccessarily work the 2nd time around. Any insight into what I could expect. Also, does it make a difference if I am switching from another ssri instead of starting from scratch?
I am gonna go check out your "musicians" post now. Do some light reading for a change. I also have a post up on the social board to gabbi about certain withdrawal experiences I went through, depending on how twisted your sense of humor is, you might find it entertaining as well.
talk to you next time.
Posted by wcfrench on October 16, 2002, at 15:13:19
In reply to Re: my experience; from zoloft to prozac and then some, posted by tai on October 15, 2002, at 11:10:40
in response to your question about the Effexor from Social Babble...
I don't know why we stopped it. Looking back on the situation, we probably should have kept it going. What happened was we added Lithium and after a few days I started feeling really good.. I had lots of energy and I was driving really fast and listening to party music with full vigor. I was pretty emotionless, and my empathy and warm emotion was kind of gone. It's hard to explain, but I worked out really hard, and didn't care about much because I felt really good, which seemed, in retrospect, to not be who I really was. So I'm not sure if that was purely an effect of the Lithium that was going to subside, or if that truly was the benefit of augmenting Effexor with Lithium. The Effexor never seemed to make me feel that way alone, but some people claim that it makes you very energetic and crazy, so maybe once I augmented it that's what I was experiencing. Just for the record, though, I was happy.
My next doctor's visit he saw me in this state, and I was definitely feeling good. I remember playing around with the glass models in his office while I was waiting for him to come in. It was a duck, and I was moving him around like he was swimming, having lots of fun mind you, and that's when the doc came in. Well, I had been fairly unsuccessful for about 1 year and 4 months now with him, during which we tried mood stabilizers and antipsychotics with some success, but terrible side effects. That's another story I'll tell later-- it was terrible. So needless to say he was happy to see me this way. Then he says he wants to wean me off the Effexor and go with just Lithium. I mean, I had no idea so I was trusting him, and I wasn't big onto psychobabble yet so I had very limited knowledge. I guess he thought all I needed was Lithium. That's when I left him for another doctor, because I got very bad again, and it was the last straw. My new doc questioned why he took me off, and so do I, looking back. I mean, for people who aren't manic depressive, Lithium is strictly an adjunctive treatment. I was taking 300mg twice a day, which is not what you take when you are using it as monotherapy. I think it's more like 1000-2000mg a day when you're using it alone. So here I was having to start over in terms of antidepressants, and from then on has just been trial and error. Paxil, Remeron, now Zoloft. Paxil stopped working and made me shake, sweat, grind my teeth, and have a bad stomach. Remeron made me sleep too much and just didn't really "work." No interest in anything. And I'm waiting on the Zoloft. If it doesn't work, I'm going to have to do something else, like maybe that treatment-resistant depression study. I saw it on a show, and I'm going to write a thread about it just to make sure people know about it. The closest location is an hour and a half away though, so it would be a pain.
So I don't know why we stopped the Effexor, and neither does my current doctor.. it was probably a mistake. In terms of sexual side effects, I didn't really know how much, if at all, it was affecting me until I came off it. Once I did, I could tell that it did diminish my sex drive and lengthen the time to orgasm. But overall it wasn't too bad, we had more time to play around. I didn't get those strong instinctive sexual urges but was still very much interested. It was fine, a minor inconvenience for me, if any. How about the Zoloft for you? If it's similar to what the Effexor did I'd take it in a second. Feeling good seems most important.
See ya,
Charlie
Posted by Tepiaca on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:46
In reply to Re: about the Effexor... » tai, posted by wcfrench on October 16, 2002, at 15:13:19
Hi , Im only writing here because I think maybe you can help me (anyone). I dont know what to do , Im so tired of my life , every day its a nigthmare , I cant talk with people , I dont have friends , I dont have girlfriend . Ive been figthing with this since I was 15 years old , now Im 23 and my life is a shit¡¡ Ive seen many doctors ,I have taken many medicines but nothings seems to help , some doctor say that I have a shizoaffective disorder type deppression , other say that I have a deliriums , anyway at this point I dont really care what I have , I only want to be a normal person¡¡¡ enjoy life ,be happy
I need friends ¡¡¡ maybe you can help me please
Jc
Posted by wcfrench on October 21, 2002, at 15:33:20
In reply to Re: about the Effexor..., posted by Tepiaca on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:46
Hi JC
What meds are you taking? Have you ever felt OK during the last several years, and what meds seemed to help it and what were you doing at that time in your life? Sometimes when I get really bad, I think exactly the same way you do. I remember thinking how much I wanted friends but how I could understand that no one would want to be friends with me, because of the negativity I carried around with me. I remember even asking one of my friends why we even have friends? Why do people want to hang around with eachother, namely, why would anyone want to hang around me? I felt like such a loner, that I couldn't bring anything positive to a friendship.
It seems that during our worst of times some of the best therapy can be to remember the times when we were good. Remember back to how you felt, and know that it is possible to get there again, and that it will happen with patience, the right medicine, and most importantly, hope. If anything, don't lose hope, know who you are on the inside, who you can be, and know that you can be that person again. All relationships suffer when you are depressed, or don't feel like yourself. From casual friends all the way to married couples, so you are not alone. We can all identify with the frustration that arises from not feeling like ourself, from not being able to socialize like we once could... from feeling worthless around other people. The most important thing to remember, however, is that these feelings are a result of depression, and that they will go away with the proper treatment. When you feel better, like yourself, these thoughts all but disappear.
You are not alone. Most of the people on PsychoBabble know exactly what you are talking about. If it's any consolation, read around, and you will find that many have been in the same boat you have, and many have it much worse. Can you tell us what meds and dosages you are taking and what you have taken in the past, and what seemed to help? We need to keep the discussion focused on your medicine, or we will have to continue it in the Psycho Social Babble forum. Hope to hear from you.
-Charlie
Posted by Fenny3 on October 21, 2002, at 20:39:39
In reply to Re: about the Effexor..., posted by Tepiaca on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:46
Hey sweets! Just saying hi, I'm new here too. I don't have a lot of experience with meds, but I do with social issues! I have very few people in my life who understand what my head is like, but I'm lucky for those few. You'll find a lot of friendly voices here, and tonnes of infomation.
Welcome!
Fenny
Posted by tai on October 21, 2002, at 23:14:16
In reply to Re: about the Effexor..., posted by Tepiaca on October 21, 2002, at 12:56:46
hey there,
pretty disturbing message. but when I first found this board I think I put up something not too far off from yours.
Im 25, jobless and withdrawn from my senior year at college. I have withdrawn myself from alot of my close friends although lately I have been forcing myself out more often. At night my head goes off like a race car, I lie awake for hours. I have a girlfriend who lives overseas, but I don't think I would want her to be around me right now anyway.
My point is that you are not alone. Besides myself I think just about everyone on this board is fighting a mental illness of some sort. And alot of us have been where you are and will probably return to that spot again before our lifetime is through.
I don't know your history but it sounds like you have been struggling for a good portion of your life. So I cant sugar coat things, it aint easy, I think you know that. It will probably never be easy for you. But I have seen the bottom and I have seen the top and I got to tell you man, the top is real sweet. Unfortunately our road to the top is not as straight forward as others. It is up and down and over and under and some parts of the road are probably so bad you don't even know if you can continue. But you don't really have a choice, you got to fight. You got to keep on keepin on.
I hope things get better for you sooner rather than later, but you need to know that things WILL get better. So dont give up, you are but in the early rounds of the biggest fight of your life.
Anytime you want to talk, swap stories, tell dirty jokes, whatever...just put up a post and holler out to me. I may not write all the time but im always reading.
Good luck.
tai
This is the end of the thread.
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