Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 124443

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ssri's and tardive syndromes(EPS)

Posted by borderliner21 on October 20, 2002, at 21:23:55

I have taken paxil twice in the past for major depression and both times, after about 6-7 months of being on it, I noticed I had gotten tardive dystonia.(my back and eyebrows were affected). I am about to go on it for a long time again(for major depression, social phobia and pain) I have done some research on the net and found some useful information. If I use zyprexa(has anti-cholonergic properties) along with the paxil long term I would be less likely to get dystonia. Anti-cholonergics treat dystonia. What else could I use in combination with paxil to lessen the dystonia?

 

Hi Buddy - Remember me Borderliner?

Posted by chad_3 on October 20, 2002, at 22:12:26

In reply to ssri's and tardive syndromes(EPS), posted by borderliner21 on October 20, 2002, at 21:23:55

Borderliner -

You are the guy from near Kansas City right? Maybe you already know I'm the guy - we emailed several years back - you were maybe 16 or so and trying out Zoloft - then changed to Parnate. I remember you were trying some different things. Anyway maybe you remember me as "JR" - I was on the Net for about 4 months during a downtime. Well now is my next downtime only this one is worse. And so far all I know is that movement disorder starting with neuroleptic initiated downslide - though underlying process not fully examined yet... anyhow ... if you recall and you are the guy we chatted back and forth on email. You had a tramoline no?

I know that at some point around there you did not have any dystonia? Is that correct? Back when you were taking Zoloft, or were 15 or so, something like that.

I noticed since posting here last 10 months or so you have been off and on here - and was clear you have movements.

So did your Dr. ever tell you what caused them initially. Was it Risperdal? I seem to remember you taking that.

And I recall your symptoms way back when you were 16 or so - you had a lot of SP - and some other stuff but a lot of SP - and you switched to Parnate and on to others also...

Well - I have severe SP - mainly - and also dysthymia which is common with SP. That is my diagnosis - primary SP and secondary dysthymia.

So did you know why you got TD? You know that every DA blocker worsens dystonia right? (I mean your health goes down - even though your movements are "masked" and you function and feel better at the time).

Maybe you have found that Klonopin or an anticonvulsant or other GABA agent also can help dystonia - or even an SSRI....

So did your Doc ever tell you when / why you have dystonia? Did you know that (at least in CA - not sure in KS) - but that the statute of limitations is 1 year for lawsuit and after that no chance to sue. That is from time a reasonable person knows they have a problem in CA. And the clock starts ticking.

My experience (I do have a DX and more stuff happening) - has been that since Jan 2002 - Dr's have been "delaying" my DX or "trying to delay" my DX - the reason is the 1 year statute. If you kinda know there's a problem - but Dr's basically blow you off - terminate you - cancel appt's - make it difficult for you to talk with them - or simply or "uncommunicative" with you (resembles dysfunction behavior) - then it all contributes to a delayed diagnosis.

Well - signing out.

Chad / ray / kregpark / jr / rick_0001 .... etc...
http://www.socialfear.com/

> I have taken paxil twice in the past for major depression and both times, after about 6-7 months of being on it, I noticed I had gotten tardive dystonia.(my back and eyebrows were affected). I am about to go on it for a long time again(for major depression, social phobia and pain) I have done some research on the net and found some useful information. If I use zyprexa(has anti-cholonergic properties) along with the paxil long term I would be less likely to get dystonia. Anti-cholonergics treat dystonia. What else could I use in combination with paxil to lessen the dystonia?

 

Re: Hi Buddy - Remember me Borderliner?

Posted by borderliner21 on October 20, 2002, at 22:41:05

In reply to Hi Buddy - Remember me Borderliner?, posted by chad_3 on October 20, 2002, at 22:12:26

I went to my doctor and he talked to me like I was retarted because My head was pulled straight down making me look like I had a serious mental disability and it was really the drugs he prescribed me(paxil) which was causing it

 

Re: Hi Buddy - Remember me Borderliner?

Posted by borderliner21 on October 20, 2002, at 22:43:08

In reply to Hi Buddy - Remember me Borderliner?, posted by chad_3 on October 20, 2002, at 22:12:26

No sorry, you have the wrong guy

 

Sorry to hear that happened ...

Posted by chad_3 on October 21, 2002, at 22:54:24

In reply to Re: Hi Buddy - Remember me Borderliner?, posted by borderliner21 on October 20, 2002, at 22:41:05

Hi Borderliner -

I'm sorry to hear about this. Did you ever in the past take zyprexa, risperdal, geodon - or any antipsychotic at all - or metoclopramide (reglan) - for nausea. Most always - unless genetic, dystonia is initially caused by the use of a DA blocker as those above, and polypharmacy and susceptible individuals (non-pyshotic) - are at much increased risk.

These "new atypicals" are by no way proven safe at all - very new drug and used now mostly only as safer versions of harsh old drugs.

Paxil certainly can worsen or unmask dystonia. Have you seen a movement disorder specialist? They are the only ones who are likely to give you good diagnosis - and takes some effort - but can be worth it... Good to see one with nothing in common with psychiatrist - and best to self-refer - and probably good to not mention drugs until after dx. From experience.

Anyway - sometimes dystonia gets better or goes away - stay off DA blockers to make it possible. Good luck.

Chad

> I went to my doctor and he talked to me like I was retarted because My head was pulled straight down making me look like I had a serious mental disability and it was really the drugs he prescribed me(paxil) which was causing it

 

chad 3 Re: Sorry to hear that happened ...

Posted by McPac on October 21, 2002, at 23:25:15

In reply to Sorry to hear that happened ... , posted by chad_3 on October 21, 2002, at 22:54:24

What is a DA blocker?
Also, what drugs are DA blockers?
Finally, can Zoloft make movement disorders worse?
Thanks!

 

DA blockers and tardive movement disorders

Posted by chad_3 on October 22, 2002, at 19:37:56

In reply to chad 3 Re: Sorry to hear that happened ... , posted by McPac on October 21, 2002, at 23:25:15

Hi -

DA blocker = Dopamine blocker.
All antipsychotics are dopamine blockers. The only other USA drug which blocks dopamine which is not an antipsychotic is "Reglan" (metaclopramide). Reglan is used for nausea and quite notorious for inducing movement disorders - amazing it is still approved for nausea in USA.

Anyway - the antipsychotics are the 'old style" and the "newer style'. Both can induce both tempoary, and permanent ( up to lifelong and sometimes progressive) - movement disorders. The type of movement disorders is staggering - something I learned only because I read up on it after developing a problem.

"Tardive Dyskinesia" is far from the only drug induced disorder - there are about a dozen or more which are clearly definted - although often a combo or mixed forms emerge - making clear dx difficult.

Zoloft cannot *cause* permanent movement disorder. It *can* cause an existing problem to "appear" - which will generally reverse on discontinuation.

This is in opposite to a DA blocker - which when started may not show any problem - and on discontinuation - the caused movement disorder *appears* - which can then again be *masked* by again taking the DA blocker. Continuing the DA blocker will typically make the problem worse and worse as time goes on. Higher doses may be required simply to *mask* the movements. Discontinuation of the DA blocker may become impossible - even early on in some cases.

Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/


> What is a DA blocker?
> Also, what drugs are DA blockers?
> Finally, can Zoloft make movement disorders worse?
> Thanks!


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