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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
I'm sure tons of books have been written about this, but how did people cope before there were antidepressants? I'm sure there have been suicides since close to the beginning of time, but for all of the medication that is available, more people than ever are taking their own lives. Are we in a sadder state now than ever?
I wonder if anyone knows if the percentage of people with any kind of psychological problems is more now than, say, 50-100 years ago.
I've heard countless people (usually over 60) say that we have it so much easier now than they did. And I'm sure their grandparents told them the same thing, etc., etc. But society seems so much more complicated now than it even did in the 80s when I was a teen/young adult.
Is it just me or are people in general more critical, competitive, self-absorbed, intolerant of others, unfriendly and even ruder, or is it me? Maybe it's always been this way and when I was my younger, better self I was too oblivious to notice or care as much. Is it because so many more people out there (probably including me) have faulty seratonin levels? How long have doctors known about balanced seratonin levels?
I'm feeling depressed because I try so often to (kindly and gently ) reach out to others (when I have the confidence), and get to know them, but most of them are just not interested.
Just felt like venting tonight. :-S
Posted by linkadge on October 20, 2002, at 20:06:10
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
I know what you mean,
In the past I believe society functioned
more as a family, and peoples emotions
were addressed more by the public.100 years ago, they didn't have antidepressants
but they did have religion that nobody doubted.
This can make a big difference. It seems today
that people just do whatever they want, and it it bothers you than it must be your problem.
I am normally distubed by violent and sexually
explicit TV for example, it seems that chemically normal is serene and calm and just let all problems pass by regardless of their importance.A vision that really depresses me is something
I once saw on a Record Album Cover, I don't know what band it was but it had a picture of a man on a lawnchair in the middle of a super poluted city environment it said "crisis,? what crisis"It's so true, for me I think there are things about the world that need to be changed, and I want to do it so bad, but when I think of my powerlessness, I get depressed.
My grandmother who suffered from depression, would sit in a chair in the courner for 8-10 months of a year. That what she did. She had 4
major depressions and sat through each one. Not very fun. It fills me with tremendous respect though.Linkadge
Posted by BrittPark on October 20, 2002, at 20:39:53
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by linkadge on October 20, 2002, at 20:06:10
I agree that we (on average) live in a much more disconnected society. 100 years ago it was rare for a son or daughter to settle in a different city let alone state when they grew up. Human's are tribal creatures and our tribes have been taken away from us.
From the purely medical point of view people were treated for depression before the advent of antidepressants in the 50s. Psychotherapy was one route and not a very successful one. Another was opiates, usually morphine. That worked very well but tended to work only for a short time as tolerance built. The last treatment I know of was amphetamines. Often very effective but like morphine didn't tend to last long.
It's a pity that these older pharmaceutical treatments haven't been followed up. Morphine is an antidepressant for a lot of people. Just think how much better treatments we would have now if efforts had been made to counteract opioid and stimulant tolerance.
Britt "I'd take OxyContin every day if I knew I wouldn't grow tolerant to it." Park
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 20:41:08
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
Well, my father drank.
Posted by Mr Cushing on October 20, 2002, at 21:16:20
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 20:41:08
Yep, I believe that my Mother and Grandfather were both Bi-Polar to some degree. My Mother was only slightly and managed to be able to pull herself out of her own episodes. However, my Papa drank about a 26er of Gin and a 12pack of Old Milwaukee just about every day for like 60 years. I always wondered how come he was such a peaceful drunk. Would just sit back with a big smile on his face, not a problem in the world, really relaxed... In fact, he drank well before my Nanny ever met him.Now that I've been really thinking about it, I'm pretty sure he was also bi-polar to some degree
Posted by Gracie2 on October 20, 2002, at 21:42:30
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2002, at 20:41:08
One of my favorite authors is Colin Wilson, who has made a career out of writing about true crime.
Unlike most true crime authors, he discusses theories for the rise of crime and degeneration of morals in society. I believe these theories also apply to the epidemic of depression in today's world.
He says, in essence, that we all simply have too much free time on our hands. "Now the advance in civilization has raised the standard of living to a level that would have been inconcievable even in the 1940s. And this higher degree of leisure and comfort and choice means that a large percentage of our society enjoys a degree of freedom that was once only enjoyed by the rich."
In the past, most people were too busy just trying to survive to worry about how bored and unhappy they were. When you're starving, the need to eat is an urgent physical desire that will pretty much demand most of your attention. When you're homeless, the need for shelter is imperative. In the past, a daily struggle to provide food and a home for one's self and family WAS the reason for existing...anything else was a bonus.
I'm not schooled in psychology, but I believe Wilson also hits upon a profound mental truth when he states that people do the things they do because ACTION BRINGS RELIEF. The next time you're feeling terribly anxious, just get up and DO something...it works. Action brings relief - another way of dealing with depression in the old days.
-Gracie
Posted by Ritch on October 20, 2002, at 22:02:50
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
Posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 22:48:02
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by Gracie2 on October 20, 2002, at 21:42:30
Gracie, I agree with you. I think back over what were actually the hardest times of my life and I was able to get through them because I had to. I was being abused emotionally and physically, but I was also working non-stop, and was good at what I did. I took pride in it, which everyone saw, and I was respected for it. My work was my haven and no one would have guessed the hell that I was going through at home.
Now several years later, as a stay-at-home mom married to a wonderful man (when he's at home), my emotions are more unstable. This floored me at first because I thought that this was the dream life. Maybe it's because I have more time on my hands to reflect on the past. Believe me, I'm busy, as anyone who's a mother can attest to, but it's often the mindless, repetitive, monotonous kind of busy, and not very physical. In the old days, moms were churning butter by hand, doing laundry the hard way, and even working in the fields as they watched their children (or their older children helped watch the younger ones). Maybe that was healthier!
And they did have an extended family network to depend on, as well.Socially, most people in my neighborhood are either working during the day or locked up in their houses like me. On the rare occasion I have a conversation with a neighbor it never really goes beyond hello. I remember when we first moved into our neighborhood and I baked cookies for a few of our neighbors during Christmastime. Only one of them said thank you and the others never mentioned it the few times we saw them after that. Unfortunately, we don't live close to either one of our families.
I am trying to connect with other stay-at-home mothers. Although it's changing, many people don't view stay at home mothers with as much respect as those who work, because they don't see them as really using their minds (the stereotypical woman sitting on the couch eating bon bons and watching soap operas).
I have to constantly find ways to stimulate myself mentally while watching my 1 and 3 year olds. It's easy to get in a rut and get depressed/anxious. Sometimes it's so hard to leave the house. It is during these times that my dark feelings take over. Next time it happens, I will just DO something!Thanks for your words.
Posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 22:50:47
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by linkadge on October 20, 2002, at 20:06:10
Yes,
You're right - much of the religious bonding has been lost. More people than ever go to church, but not as many seem to be practicing goodwill.
People as a society don't care about and protect each other like they used to.
Posted by catmint on October 20, 2002, at 23:31:47
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
Posted by Simcha on October 20, 2002, at 23:33:52
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
Well,
On the Polish side of my family they used narcotics, and alcohol. They were also locked up in Sanitariums for sacrificing cats and such. Some of them killed themselves.
On the Italian side of the family they just suffered.
My Russian Jewish family suffered.
My Anglo-Indian family drank, had gratuitous sex and killed themselves.
I know it was no picnic for them.
Simcha
Posted by hiba on October 21, 2002, at 0:09:24
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants? » WorryGirl, posted by Simcha on October 20, 2002, at 23:33:52
I know what I did before I knew there are some medications to treat depression.
I spent a hellish life dominated by anxiety and obsessive worries. Spent long awful sleepless nights. Quarrelled with my parents and friends, constantly shirked from my responsibilities.
I believed psychiatry only treats crazy people. And I couldn't diagnose myself as a "crazy" individual, because my insight was intact. But once when I went to my GP, he told me there is an illness called depression and so and so...
Those who killed themselves probably because of major depression
Van Gough, Virginia Woolf, Neitzhe.... this table
can be long
Depression is a biological disorder. Society or age have nothing to do with it.It existed and still exists.
HIBA
Posted by Gracie2 on October 21, 2002, at 1:06:34
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants? » Gracie2, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 22:48:02
Stay-at-home mothers (along with teachers) are
horrendously undervalued in our society. After my father left my mother, she had to go to work. This was back in the late 60s, when women with a litter of growing children didn't normally work
full-time. (There were 5 of us.) She liked her work and she was good at it. She spent less and less time at home - she was a traveling salesperson for a major book-publishing company - and resented us more and more every time she did come home.
Out of the 5 of us children I was the only one to have a child of my own, a single child that was unplanned. One of my brothers is dead. Another brother spent years in drug rehab and a year in prison after repeated DWIs. One of my sisters would like to have children now, but is unable after numerous abortions and bouts of PID. The other sister is on her 4th marriage and starving herself to death, having given up on therapy for her bulimia and anorexia. As for myself, I've experienced alcoholism, drug addiction, attempted suicide, and been hospitalized 3 times for depression.
I cannot believe that this is all a coincidence.
The five of us suffered greatly from the lack of love and guidance that good parents should provide. My mother eventually became vice-president of international marketing for this huge book company. She owned 2 fabulous condos, drove a vintage Mercedes, owned a wardrobe to die for, traveled worldwide and vacationed regularly in Europe and the Bahamas (without us). She was a terrible mother, selfish and supremely self-centered. She never shared her wealth with any of us, never paid for anything after each of us turned 18. She was an absolute success in the business world, a complete failure as a parent. In fact, when I first read the book "Mommie Dearest", I was aware that the book was meant to shock the world with the story of Joan Crawford's tirades. The book didn't shock me at all. I was familiar with just about all of it.So I don't think there's anything noble or wonderful about pursuing a career at the expense of your kids. My sister told me a story the other day. She had been active in gymnastics when she was young and practiced almost obsessively during her junior high and high school years. I remember that much, because I usually picked her up from practice myself. One morning, while I was dishing out her oatmeal, she told me that there was a big gymnastic meet that afternoon with a competing high school, but she was thinking about skipping it. When I asked her why, she said, "What's the difference? Nobody ever comes to see me." I said,
"You go to that meet, and I'll come see you." She said that I showed up with all my friends - in high school, I hung out with a group known as "heads" - we skipped school, did drugs, got in fights, got arrested and ended up pregnant. We never attended football games, proms or any other kind of school-related activity. But that evening, at my sister's gymnastic meet, I showed up with my whole crowd. Every time she did well,
we all stood up and stomped and cheered.I have no memory of this event. My sister says that it is one of the highlights of her life. For years and years she had been competing in gymnastics, and neither of my parents had ever shown up for a single meet, not once. When she told me that story, my heart broke. I wished I could go back in time and love that little girl
like she deserved. Later on, when my son was playing in little league, there was a boy whose parents never showed up for any games. The rest of us parents, we sort of closed around him, tried to support him. I like to think that maybe my sister had that much, but I don't think she did.Your job as a parent is surely the most important role you will play in life, that's what I believe.
-Gracie
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2002, at 1:19:16
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
> I'm sure tons of books have been written about this, but how did people cope before there were antidepressants?
This is a great discussion, but since it focuses on alternatives to medication, I'd rather have it continue on another board. How about PSB? Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20021010/msgs/31461.html
Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on October 23, 2002, at 9:15:31
In reply to What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by WorryGirl on October 20, 2002, at 19:49:30
Alcohol has always been used by depressed people although it is itself a depressant.Opiates were used for thousands of years before they were put on prescription.It was common in Britain up to about 100 years ago to buy a few cents worth of morphine every week.Much of our depression though seems to be related to a deficiency of omega-3 fish oil in our diet.Where people get plenty of it in e.g. Japan or in the case of Eskimos depresssion is not so common.Put "omega-3" in the search box of Psycho-babble to find out more about it.
Posted by WorryGirl on October 23, 2002, at 9:31:45
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants?, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on October 23, 2002, at 9:15:31
Thanks for the info. It sounds like I need to add Omega 3 fatty acids to my grocery list!
Posted by Mal on October 23, 2002, at 11:00:37
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants? » Ed O`Flaherty, posted by WorryGirl on October 23, 2002, at 9:31:45
Worrygirl, check it out carefully before you buy. The brand I bought made me sick (nauseous for ~ 1 hour, no vomiting, though). Good luck, and if you find a brand that works well, let me know!
Thanks, MAL
> Thanks for the info. It sounds like I need to add Omega 3 fatty acids to my grocery list!
Posted by WorryGirl on October 24, 2002, at 16:30:06
In reply to Re: What did people do before antidepressants? » WorryGirl, posted by Mal on October 23, 2002, at 11:00:37
Thanks Mal,
I just bought some Flax Oil capsules by Barlean's at the local health store. They're 100% organic and pesticide-free and the capsules are 1,000 mg each. They contain 1,650 mg of the Omega 3 fatty acids. I was hesitant to buy the fish oil capsules because I think I tried some once a long time ago and they left a fishy taste in my mouth when I burped (sorry if I grossed you out!)
I took 3 tablets this morning because that is what was recommended on the bottle. I didn't experience nausea, but I did eat a lot today, so maybe that helped.I'll keep you updated if there are any bad side effects.
Another thing, I've felt pretty manic today. I don't know if it's because of the flax oil capsules or my hormones.
Thanks again
Posted by Fenny3 on October 24, 2002, at 17:27:43
In reply to Flax Oil Capsules » Mal, posted by WorryGirl on October 24, 2002, at 16:30:06
Fish oil also bothered my husband, he's allergic to fish. I take the flax seed oil, and I like it. I doesn't do anything for my overall energy, but I "feel" better.
Fenny
Posted by linkadge on October 25, 2002, at 18:54:50
In reply to Re: Flax Oil Capsules » WorryGirl, posted by Fenny3 on October 24, 2002, at 17:27:43
Are you familliar with the Flax - Mania
connection?All of the Omega 3 studies have been done
with fish oil. Fish oil omega 3 is directly
absorbed into the brain, while Flax oil
must pass through a chemical conversion.
Some people have actually had a manic
reaction to Flax oil, this has never happened
with fish oil.Linkadge
Posted by Fenny3 on October 29, 2002, at 19:45:58
In reply to Re: Flax Oil Capsules, posted by linkadge on October 25, 2002, at 18:54:50
No! I'd never heard that before. Thanks for the info.
Fenny
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