![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 25 to 49 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:09:45
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara, posted by JackD on March 7, 2002, at 20:50:53
Yep, your story sounds very similar to mine. I think we may be one of the few folks on this board who are on the lithium/remeron combo so I'll be interested to hear how your faring. Keep in touch. - Barbara
> Ah, a medicine love story; lithium and remeron. I hope I have as much success... I suspect bipolar since I have had very strong and rapid responses to meds, especially the more activating ones. However, after short while the meds soon stop working and make me even worse off than I was to begin with. I also have ADD, which is often comorbid with Bipolar. From the literature I've read symptoms of Bipolar II seem much more fitting than Bipolar I. Also, in retrospect, I have always been SO inconsistent with almost every aspect of my life. Even as far back as elemtary school through now (college), my teachers have said I'm very unpredictable and inconsistent. I'm sure there are a few more reasons for my prognosis, but I can't think of any off hand. Well, anyway, thanks for your input.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 9, 2002, at 1:14:44
In reply to Re: Hypopthyroidism in people wioth mood disorders. » Psydoc, posted by Thrud on March 7, 2002, at 23:52:35
Thrud,I've looked into and also tried l-tyrosine and
also l-phenylalanine suplemenatation with short lived poop out
results. My understanding of the biological pathway is that the
amino acid in the vast majority of neurons already saturates
the bottlneck enzyme called "tyrosine hydroxylase".
phenylalanine (via phenylalanine hydroxylase)-> tyrosine (via tyrosine hyrdroxylase)-> l-dopa -> dopamine -> norepineprine
The phenylalanine is converted to tyrosine through
a phenylalnine hydroxylase enzyme. Subsequently tyrosine
gets converted to l-dopa via a "tyrosine hydroxylase" enzyme.
And then l-dopa can get converted to dopamine and then
potentially norepinephrine.In the vast majority of cells the diet swamps the enzyme
tyrosine hydroxylyse. So for most people taking tyrosine
precursor provides no benefit. However, you can bypass by
taking l-dopa as in parkinson's.Now for impotence, its interesting that we usually see this
a lot in medicines that are norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors.
A lot of people complained of this in Reboxetine. People found
relief for this with medicines that blocked the noradrenaline
"alpha-1" receptor like "Flomax". Also medicines with side effects
like priapism (permanent erection) such as Trazodone, block the
noradrenaline "alpha-1" receptor. So I wonder if your effect had
more to do with norepinephrine than dopamine.-John
> Hi Psydoc,
>
> Maybe you can help me with a little puzzle that has vexed me for a couple of years.
>
> A couple of years ago I tried l-tyrosine as a monotherapy for depression/panic/crushing fatigue because I was so sick of SSRIs. After about 2 weeks it really kicked in and I excitedly told my family that I felt well for the first time in 10 years. There was one major problem though...it made me completely impotent, more than any SSRI. In the end it pooped out after a couple of months and I had to move on to other meds.
>
> I did a lot of research on l-tyrosine to see where it is used in the body and see if I could pinpoint some biological basis for my problems: I simply shouldn't have felt that good (or that impotent) on a simple amino acid. I was using the standard dose of 1500mg per day.
>
> It seems to be involved in the endocrine system a lot, including the thyroid. I also believe that the thyroid is connected to sexual function (through some hormone I guess) but I could find nothing linking higher levels of l-tyrosine to impotence. In fact the opposite always seems to be reported: the increase in brain dopamine is supposed to increase sex drive. My TSH levels are tested periodically and have always been normal.
>
> I have celiac disease and know that there is some comorbitity with thyroid autoimmune problems. Could there be a thyroid problem which is not reflected in TSH levels? If it helps, I have just been found to be low in testosterone and LH.
>
> I have discussed this all this with my pdoc and he is referring me to an endocrinologist. In the meantime, if you have any insights to offer I would be very, very appreciative.
>
> Thrud
Posted by Psydoc on March 9, 2002, at 6:10:39
In reply to Re: Hypopthyroidism in people wioth mood disorders. » Psydoc, posted by Thrud on March 7, 2002, at 23:52:35
Hi . . .
In the 8/16/80 issue of The Lancet I puiblished some brief case reports regarding people who had a good response to l-tyrosine. Symptoms of AD(H)D and depression were controlled. The only problem was that in soime people the results were not long-lasting and in other people l-tyrosine seemed to have no effect on thinking, mood or behavior.
Unfortunately I am unable explain the effectiveness or loss of effectiveness of l-tyrosine.
Best regards . . .
Ivan Goldberg
psydoc@psycom.net
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Posted by Zo on March 12, 2002, at 2:25:51
In reply to Hypopthyroidism in people wioth mood disorders., posted by Psydoc on March 7, 2002, at 5:05:55
Posted by Thrud on March 12, 2002, at 4:47:45
In reply to Re: Hypopthyroidism in people wioth mood disorders. » Thrud, posted by JohnX2 on March 9, 2002, at 1:14:44
Hi John,
> I've looked into and also tried l-tyrosine and
> also l-phenylalanine suplemenatation with short lived poop out
> results.I get the feeling that the body has "thermostat" levels set for just about every chemical in the body, and if it is a natural substance like tyrosine, it quickly figures out how to counter-act elevated levels (extra liver metabolism etc?).
It seems to take a fair time longer to figure out how to counteract (unnatural-to-the-body) psychmeds but does seem to eventually succeed in most people.>My understanding of the biological pathway is that the
> amino acid in the vast majority of neurons already saturates
> the bottlneck enzyme called "tyrosine hydroxylase".
>
> phenylalanine (via phenylalanine hydroxylase)-> tyrosine (via tyrosine hyrdroxylase)-> l-dopa -> dopamine -> norepineprine
>Yeah, I had a look at the metabolic pathways one day as well and noticed a possible bottleneck in tyrosine hydroxylase. I then bought some NADH which supposedly helps depression by increasing the production of tyrosine hydroxylase. It didn't really do much for the depression and also made me somewhat impotent. I don't really recommend it to anybody.
>So I wonder if your effect had
> more to do with norepinephrine than dopamine.
>
> -JohnI can't say. L-tyrosine is also used in the thyroid, thalamus, hypothalamus and adrenal glands. Any one of these could be screwy too. My low testosterone and LH levels has now given me an excuse to see an endocrinologist, so I will ask for a full work up.
I can't stand enforced celibacy for much longer................
Thrud
Posted by Thrud on March 12, 2002, at 4:52:49
In reply to Re: Hypopthyroidism in people wioth mood disorders. » Thrud, posted by Psydoc on March 9, 2002, at 6:10:39
Hi Psydoc,
Are there thyroid problems that might not be reflected in abnormal TSH levels, yet still affect mood and/or sexual function?
I've read that low thyroid hormone levels can cause impotency (although I don't know the mechanism) but then TSH levels should not be normal (mine always have been).
Thanks,
Thrud
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 11:42:05
In reply to Hypopthyroidism in people wioth mood disorders., posted by Psydoc on March 7, 2002, at 5:05:55
Dr. G.
Have a question for you. What is your opinion of taking T3 in the form of Armour or another dessicated thyroid hormone vs. synthetic T4 + Cytomel (synthetic T3) for hypothyroid with depression? Have you heard any positives about time release T3? (I haven't - felt like it dumped it's load all at once causing jitters). Thanks for feedback.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 11:45:59
In reply to Love that Cytomel ! (nm) » Psydoc, posted by Zo on March 12, 2002, at 2:25:51
So speak to us, Zo. Why are you taking Cytomel? Hypothyroid? Depressed? Both? How much are you taking and how many times a day? Do you take it with levothyroxine or alone? Why do you love it?
I'm on 2 grains Armour thyroid. My TSH level is good, but I'm still dragging. Thinking of making the switch to synthetic T4 + Cytomel, but have not heard any 'real' stories praising Cytomel. - Barbara
Posted by noa on March 12, 2002, at 17:07:08
In reply to Re: Lithium; thyroid site » noa, posted by Ritch on March 6, 2002, at 23:48:34
I think one problem is that with the ease of TSH tests, testing is done more widely but the guidelines of "normal" being in the range of about 1 to 5 have been relied on too rigidly at the expense of listening to how the patient feels. Also, many doctors rely too heavily on just the one test--TSH--when other data may be needed. TSH is a good *screening* tool in my opinion, but not the be-all and end-all of diagnosing thyroid problems. But I think that manged care being what it is, unfortunately, SOP for many doctors is to rely on such screening tools as well as quick and easy numbers guidelines which were really intended to be statistical norms and not the definition of what is normal functioning for any one individual.
The 2.0 that you are referring to, I believe comes from an article in a British medical journal (please see the thyroid and depression folder --it is linked there) which suggests that anything 2.0 or above has a high correlation with subsequently emerging signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism, and therefore TSH results in the lower 1/4 of the so-called "normal" range should be considered not normal and treatment should be considered.
For me, I had a TSH at around 4.5-5. My pdoc prescribed cytomel and later, synthroid. My TSH then hovered around 2.5 for a while and I felt better than before, but not great. On lithium, the TSH went up to 3.8. I saw an endo who raised my doses gradually based on how it affected how I felt. He anticipated that my TSH target would be below 1, and subsequently wrote a letter to my Primary Care doctor saying that in his experience, patients with hypothyroidism and depression do best when thyroid is treated to the point of getting TSH below 1. My improvement leveled off at around .3, although even after that, I continued to feel increasingly better at that level of treatment.
I think the endocrinology *establishment* (ie organizations) should be distinguished from endocrinologists. You should go to an endo that you have recs about from other people--one who is up on the latest research about hypothyroid undertreatment, etc. and who does not rely solely on blood tests, but combines this data with listening to the patient about how they feel--but don't write off the whole profession, either. My endo has been fantastic--and my life drastically improved because I went to see him.
Posted by noa on March 12, 2002, at 17:11:24
In reply to Re: Love that Cytomel ! » Zo, posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 11:45:59
I take Synthroid and Cytomel and they work well for me. If I were starting out now, I would opt for a different brand of T4, though--ie, one of the ones that went through approval process with FDA, but since I have been on synthroid for so long without problems, I am staying with it.
I personally wouldn't want to take the Armour because its source doesn't jive with my dietary choices (ie, it's from Pigs)--unless of course there were no alternative for me.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 18:16:51
In reply to Re: Lithium; thyroid site » Ritch, posted by noa on March 12, 2002, at 17:07:08
Amen, Amen I say to that, Noa. I like your endo. Below 1 seems like a healthy level to shoot for, but so many docs leave it at 3-4 and call it normal. Just out of curiosity, how long did it take your thyroid to get affected after starting lithium? And what are you taking and how much now vs. before the lithium? I realize we're all different, but it's of interest to me. - Barbara
Posted by Ritch on March 12, 2002, at 18:17:55
In reply to Re: Lithium; thyroid site » Ritch, posted by noa on March 12, 2002, at 17:07:08
> I think one problem is that with the ease of TSH tests, testing is done more widely but the guidelines of "normal" being in the range of about 1 to 5 have been relied on too rigidly at the expense of listening to how the patient feels. Also, many doctors rely too heavily on just the one test--TSH--when other data may be needed. TSH is a good *screening* tool in my opinion, but not the be-all and end-all of diagnosing thyroid problems. But I think that manged care being what it is, unfortunately, SOP for many doctors is to rely on such screening tools as well as quick and easy numbers guidelines which were really intended to be statistical norms and not the definition of what is normal functioning for any one individual.
>
> The 2.0 that you are referring to, I believe comes from an article in a British medical journal (please see the thyroid and depression folder --it is linked there) which suggests that anything 2.0 or above has a high correlation with subsequently emerging signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism, and therefore TSH results in the lower 1/4 of the so-called "normal" range should be considered not normal and treatment should be considered.
>
> For me, I had a TSH at around 4.5-5. My pdoc prescribed cytomel and later, synthroid. My TSH then hovered around 2.5 for a while and I felt better than before, but not great. On lithium, the TSH went up to 3.8. I saw an endo who raised my doses gradually based on how it affected how I felt. He anticipated that my TSH target would be below 1, and subsequently wrote a letter to my Primary Care doctor saying that in his experience, patients with hypothyroidism and depression do best when thyroid is treated to the point of getting TSH below 1. My improvement leveled off at around .3, although even after that, I continued to feel increasingly better at that level of treatment.
>
> I think the endocrinology *establishment* (ie organizations) should be distinguished from endocrinologists. You should go to an endo that you have recs about from other people--one who is up on the latest research about hypothyroid undertreatment, etc. and who does not rely solely on blood tests, but combines this data with listening to the patient about how they feel--but don't write off the whole profession, either. My endo has been fantastic--and my life drastically improved because I went to see him.Thanks Noa, for that information. Got a couple of questions though. Did you ever get adverse reactions from the supplementation? If so, what were they and at what TSH level seemed to be the most troublesome (you mentioned mood improvement leveling off at .3). I have just half a thyroid and my latest TSH was 1.4. I have a stable calcification in the side that is left (my right). I don't want to get another tumor. The thyroid augmentation is used to supress tumor growth isn't it?
thanks in advance,
Mitch
Posted by Nala on August 29, 2002, at 5:48:28
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara, posted by JackD on March 7, 2002, at 20:50:53
Barbara,
You've responded to me in the past re: Remeron as monotherapy. However, since then my pdoc has diagnosed me with BP II as well as started me on Lithium. I've been on it about 1 week. Is this combo still working well for you? I also practice a healthy lifestyle like you including: exercise, healthy eating, water drinking, etc. I have felt no change "yet" since beginning Lithium. But, everyone tells me "watch out, you'll gain weight!" I may have put on 2 nEEDED pounds on Remeron, alone, but I've already noticed I'm not hungry like I used to be on Remeron. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
Nala!
Posted by BarbaraCat on August 29, 2002, at 23:13:23
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara, posted by Nala on August 29, 2002, at 5:48:28
Hi Nala,
Good to hear from you again. I've been reducing the Remeron slowly due to the weight gain and the fact that I wasn't getting as good an antidepressant response as I felt I should at 75mg, a high dose. I think the lithium has helped very much in keeping the crazier part of my condition at bay and to act as a stabilizer. However, I've been under extra stress lately and am acutely feeling the lessened dose of Rem (at 45mg and will stay here til life settles down more). I've found a very good naturopath who has pinpointed some considerable health issues that may be very influential in my fibromyalgia and neuro-inflammatory symptoms, and general feeling of fatigue, pain and anxiety. So, hopefully, I'll be able to manage things better with correct metabolic and nutritional support instead of only targeting it from the antidepressants. I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I think Remeron and lithium are a very good combo. I don't think Remeron has as good a track record on it's own and seems to need the lithium kick - but that may be due to my own BP-II idiosyncracies. There is the real problem of weight increase, but many folks on this board seem to manage it through exercise. I could not, especially since my fibromyalgia makes strenuous exercise out of the question. I eat well and definitely not in excess, but any seems to be too much.It's difficult to separate what's emotional and what's physical stress, however, I know that my condition requires much more than head meds (and probably needs prayer more than anthing) so I'm probably not the best person to ask on the efficacy of any AD - they just don't work after a bit.
Question: why does your doc think you have BP-II? It's become the catch-all dx du-jour, and sometimes I wonder about my own diagnosis.
> Barbara,
> You've responded to me in the past re: Remeron as monotherapy. However, since then my pdoc has diagnosed me with BP II as well as started me on Lithium. I've been on it about 1 week. Is this combo still working well for you? I also practice a healthy lifestyle like you including: exercise, healthy eating, water drinking, etc. I have felt no change "yet" since beginning Lithium. But, everyone tells me "watch out, you'll gain weight!" I may have put on 2 nEEDED pounds on Remeron, alone, but I've already noticed I'm not hungry like I used to be on Remeron. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
> Nala
>
> !
Posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 12:56:03
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara » Nala, posted by BarbaraCat on August 29, 2002, at 23:13:23
I've been on Remeron and Lithium for 5 weeks now with no real antidepressant response. When did the Remeron kick in for good for you guys?
-Charlie
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 13:20:05
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara, posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 12:56:03
You don't say what dosage you're on? I had a response after about 3 weeks. By then I was up to 30mg. I felt fabulous, wonderful, the best I ever felt on an AD for about 2 months and then it pooped totally and I was in pretty bad shape. I increased it up to 60mg with no alleviation in symptoms - it was like whipping a dead horse. It was at this point (about 4 months after starting) that I began lithium. I felt a lifting of symptoms after 3 days, peaking at 3 weeks. I felt pretty darn good for a few months, but then the little demons of melancholy and anxiety starting slinking back in, and increasing dosages was like abusing the poor horse again. I'm now looking for another drug. I'll probably keep lithium and perhaps talk my pdoc into putting me on a trial of Lexapro. But I don't think Remeron has what it takes, at least for me. I've never found that initial wonderful feeling, and I've gone up to 80mg. Also, it sure would be nice to loose the pudge I've gained on it. I think it's a fairly benign drug and potentially a great drug, but at this point, it needs tweaking.
I've been on Remeron and Lithium for 5 weeks now with no real antidepressant response. When did the Remeron kick in for good for you guys?
>
> -Charlie
Posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 15:05:09
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara » wcfrench, posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 13:20:05
Thanks.
I have had a similar poop-out experience. I first started Lithium with Effexor and it made me super energetic.. but I felt like I was lacking feeling, sadness, love, I was working out a lot and felt like a machine without emotion. I was at least feeling decent though, and then for some ungodly reason my doc decided to stop the Effexor and go with just lithium, 600mg a day, thinking that was all I needed.. well.. I don't know why he did it, but then I got really depressed, crying all the time, and I started Paxil. With the Paxil, it peaked at about 6 days and I felt good, and then it gave out completely... after that, I'm on Remeron and I'm scared because of this lack of response, I'm thinking it just won't do anything. Tomorrow makes 5 weeks and I really haven't had any good feelings with it like I had for the short time on Paxil. I started on 30mg and am still on 30mg, but I'm not sure that I could say I've even had partial response. People say 6 to 8 weeks, but I'm pretty skeptical that it will magically kick in during the next couple of weeks if it has already been this long. All ADs are supposedly 6 to 8 weeks, but with Effexor and Paxil, I felt changes during the first week. I guess I'll wait and see what happens.. if it fails, on to something else. Uhhhg. It's a bummer too because I did a lot of reading about it and it seems to be a good medicine, but nothing's good if it doesn't work. Here's to hope.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 21:57:40
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium -Barbara, posted by wcfrench on September 4, 2002, at 15:05:09
There are some people on this board who have had a very successful run with Remeron, without Lithium augmentation, even. If you're not gaining weight on it, you might try going up to 45mg and see if that makes a diff. My personal experience is that I've *always* felt something on an AD after 1 week, it usually subsided until the third week when I'd feel it kick in again, then it would gradually increase until about 6-10 weeks where it would plateau from then on out, and then I'd get the poop out at some point in the future.
If you don't get any response from 45mg in the next 2-3 weeks, then I'd say you've got a dud in the SNRI dept. It's hard to say if you fit in the 'non-responder' category since you got a response from other SSRI's, but didn't like what they did to you emotionally. I sure can relate. I've got an appt with my pdoc in 2 weeks where I'm going to discuss other options with him. Talked to him today on the phone and asked about Lexapro, the 'new and better Celexa' and he wasn't convinced that it wasn't a marketing hype. He suggested Celexa since Remeron again has pooped, but I'm not so sure. I've also been the same route as you so well described, feeling like a machine, not being able to cry even when you want to, flat emotionally. What a stinkin' trade-off. I'm also going to suggest Lamictal along with my current Lithium since Lamictal seems to have good antidepressant response. I'm also going to bring up *ack* MAOI's since those are one class of drug I've never tried.
Jeez, what a medical merry-go-round. I wish they'd come out with a little thingie like Dr. Beverly Crusher on Star Trek had, just point it at our heads and get an accurate read-out. I'm ready to try to tough it out once again and be pure and an exercise freak, but that scares the living crap out of me.
Posted by Zo on October 6, 2002, at 18:18:30
In reply to Re: Love that Cytomel ! » Zo, posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 11:45:59
barbaracat!never answered this post cuz i got blocked, and don't much read pb anymore. . but i found this when i did a search on google for some cytomel info. . .and *i* came up!
*totally* recommend cytomel along with synthroid, or as an augmenter
will check this thread or email me (remove all the spaces)
zo 219 at ya hoo etc
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2002, at 20:50:45
In reply to Re: Love that Cytomel ! » BarbaraCat, posted by Zo on October 6, 2002, at 18:18:30
Hi Zo,
Good to hear from you. I haven't been around much either. I didn't quite understand your message. Are you on synthroid and cytomel now or was this another recommendation you came across? I've been taking Armour thyroid with the T4/T3 for many years, having been on a T4 synthroid generic previously. I know I do better with T3 for my hypothyroidism. Lately I've been considering if I want to go with synthetic T4 again and add cytomel, so your post is very timely. Armour has T1, T2 and maybe others and I don't know if that's a good thing or if it's more burden for the liver. But a bigger issue is that I've stopped eating critters, just can't do it anymore, and the pork derived Armour is bothering my conscience. Unfortunately, soybeans for protein are not a big option since soy isoflavones block thyroxine update. We need a new food. - Barbara>
> barbaracat!
>
> never answered this post cuz i got blocked, and don't much read pb anymore. . but i found this when i did a search on google for some cytomel info. . .and *i* came up!
>
> *totally* recommend cytomel along with synthroid, or as an augmenter
>
> will check this thread or email me (remove all the spaces)
>
> zo 219 at ya hoo etc
Posted by jane d on October 8, 2002, at 19:58:30
In reply to Re: Love that Cytomel ! » Zo, posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2002, at 20:50:45
> Hi Zo,
> Good to hear from you. I haven't been around much either. I didn't quite understand your message. Are you on synthroid and cytomel now or was this another recommendation you came across? I've been taking Armour thyroid with the T4/T3 for many years, having been on a T4 synthroid generic previously. I know I do better with T3 for my hypothyroidism. Lately I've been considering if I want to go with synthetic T4 again and add cytomel, so your post is very timely. Armour has T1, T2 and maybe others and I don't know if that's a good thing or if it's more burden for the liver. But a bigger issue is that I've stopped eating critters, just can't do it anymore, and the pork derived Armour is bothering my conscience. Unfortunately, soybeans for protein are not a big option since soy isoflavones block thyroxine update. We need a new food. - Barbara
>Barbara,
Do you know how significant the effect of soy on thyroid is? I face the same problem getting enough protein and also take t4 and t3. I know my mood causes my eating patterns to change drastically but now I wonder if diet changes are also changing mood perhaps by way of soy to thyroid levels to mood.
Jane
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 8, 2002, at 23:12:33
In reply to Soy and Thyroid? » BarbaraCat, posted by jane d on October 8, 2002, at 19:58:30
Jane,
Yes, I do know about soy and thyroid. I want to get my notes together so I can discuss this with some credibility. It may take a few days, but I will get back to you. Until then, soy is a goitrogen and large amounts will prevent the uptake of iodine. Also, estrogen has an effect on the thyroid, and soy affects estrogen, but what estrogens and how is contradictory at best in current scientific findings. I'll get back as soon as I can, given I just started work after over a year and I'm bushed beyond belief. This will also be a good excuse to get my findings together since it very much affects my own hypothyroid and menopausal concerns. - Barbara
> Do you know how significant the effect of soy on thyroid is? I face the same problem getting enough protein and also take t4 and t3. I know my mood causes my eating patterns to change drastically but now I wonder if diet changes are also changing mood perhaps by way of soy to thyroid levels to mood.
>
> Jane
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 11, 2002, at 12:56:11
In reply to Soy and Thyroid? » BarbaraCat, posted by jane d on October 8, 2002, at 19:58:30
Hi Jane,
Here you go about soy and thyroid:http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soysdownsides/
The article called "Concerns about Soy" at the bottom is especially good. What I've been finding out is that fermented soy products like tempeh and miso do not have the same goitrogenic effects as the unfermented forms. So, it looks like tempeh's protein and nutritional profile is very high. My husband and I like it alot and use it in place of chunks of meat, and in ethnic dishes.
What's very interesting to me is how the Soy agricultural lobby has been doing their utmost to keep this disturbing info from consumers. Many European countries put warnings on labels of soy-based infant formula and you won't see them selling concentrated isoflavones over the counter. Unlike in this this country, Doctors there are informed of what numerous research studies have uncovered. That's not to say all soy products or tofu should be ditched, however, it's not the wonder food we're being led to believe.
Another to consider is quinoa which is a grain, well, actually it's a teensey little fruit that looks like grain. It comes from the high mountainous regions of the Andes and Peru and has a complete and high protein content. I don't know yet whether or not it's a goitrogen, but would suspect it's not because it's not either a grain nor a legume. Most health food stores carry it. Just be sure to rinse it well because some have a bitter tasting but harmless saponin coating. Unfortunately, millet is another goitrogen, and too bad because I like it alot.
BTW, if you're not familiar with the Thyroid About.com site, it's a treasure trove. - BarbaraCat
Posted by wcfrench on October 13, 2002, at 19:13:56
In reply to Re: Remeron and Lithium » wcfrench, posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 21:57:40
BarbaraCat
Thanks for your words of advice. It turns out that Remeron wasn't really the best for me-- I must have had a dud. I started Zoloft while tapering Remeron and I felt different even the second day, and the dryness and adhedonia has already gone away. I realize now why people talk on the phone, why people tell stories, and why people take pictures. That's about the best I can describe it. For my time on Remeron, basically which I would call "unsuccessful," I found no reason to take pictures. Life wasn't special. Well, they say that you take pictures of the times you want to remember, and isn't it the truth. If the last few days have been a sign of what's to come, I am sure glad I switched. Unfortunately I was on Remeron for 2 and a half months, and didn't enjoy life as much, but I guess it's all part of something bigger. I'm glad to have experienced life in that way, and am also glad that it's over. I've certainly paid my homage to the depression king in many different ways.
It's funny how different life can feel. Since I started meds, stopped ones that weren't working, started others, and got depressed, I have experienced life as so many other people experience it and it just makes me understand why people do things. Why some people are angry, why some people are sad, why some are happy. Although I wouldn't wish depression on anyone, it certainly is an experience that we should all feel at some point in our life. Hopefully, though, we can get out of it. Wishing you and everyone the best.
-Charlie
Posted by mobe on March 5, 2008, at 20:40:59
In reply to Re: Love that Cytomel ! » Zo, posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2002, at 20:50:45
> Hi Zo,
> Good to hear from you. I haven't been around much either. I didn't quite understand your message. Are you on synthroid and cytomel now or was this another recommendation you came across? I've been taking Armour thyroid with the T4/T3 for many years, having been on a T4 synthroid generic previously. I know I do better with T3 for my hypothyroidism. Lately I've been considering if I want to go with synthetic T4 again and add cytomel, so your post is very timely. Armour has T1, T2 and maybe others and I don't know if that's a good thing or if it's more burden for the liver. But a bigger issue is that I've stopped eating critters, just can't do it anymore, and the pork derived Armour is bothering my conscience. Unfortunately, soybeans for protein are not a big option since soy isoflavones block thyroxine update. We need a new food. - Barbara
>
> >
> > barbaracat!
> >
> > never answered this post cuz i got blocked, and don't much read pb anymore. . but i found this when i did a search on google for some cytomel info. . .and *i* came up!
> >
> > *totally* recommend cytomel along with synthroid, or as an augmenter
> >
> > will check this thread or email me (remove all the spaces)
> >
> > zo 219 at ya hoo etc
>
> Hi allI see that I am posting this many years after the 2002 date of your messages. I've just begain cytomel and have been on synthroid for a while now. My TSH last time we checked was about 3.5. Because I'm vegetarian, I chose not to use the pig derived thyroid med.
I'm hoping the cytomel will help with the depression and with the thyroid, but in addition I'm also hoping it will help with the water and fat weight gain I've experienced with Remeron. I've been relatively lucky, only gaining about 10 lbs; but of course it's all in the belly and pretty uncomfortable.
Has anyone ever started cytomel and actually lost weight while still on remeron. I'm reluctant to give up the latter as it has been the med that helped the most with my sleep, even at the teeny dose of 4 mg. I can't take more. I feel wired and tired at the same time if I do, like you would feel if you had an Irish Coffee.
Mobe
This is the end of the thread.
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