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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by denise528 on August 1, 2002, at 6:12:40
Hello,
I'm thinking of trying Nardil, although my psychiatrist says I'm not bad enough to take Nardil. I'd like to try it but I'm worried that it may make me agitated, so far, this time round all of the SSRIs have made me agitated apart from Effexor which just makes me dopey. Anyone out there experienced agitation with Nardil?
Also, I don't suffer from any phobias, would it still be worth me trying Nardil?
Denise
Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 8:24:09
In reply to Nardil and agitation, posted by denise528 on August 1, 2002, at 6:12:40
>it may make me agitated, so far, this time round all of the SSRIs have made me agitated apart from Effexor which just makes me dopey. Anyone out there experienced agitation with Nardil?
how depressed are you, how agitated did you get, what combination strategies have you tried in the past, what do you suffer from, are you atypical or melancholic, do you have any other medical problems/medication you take, ............
what type of response have you received from which meds in the past (none, some, partial or full) .......
should i become a lawyer or stick with computers? .. i find computers really boring and isolating, but i don't know if that's a cause or effect of the depression
Posted by denise528 on August 1, 2002, at 9:28:34
In reply to Re: Nardil and agitation, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 8:24:09
Hi,
Thanks for asking but you'll probably regret it.
I'm really not sure what kind of depression I have, my psychiatrist seems to think I have some sort of bipolar but I don't agree with him, I think that the ADs have just been making me seem that way. When I am off ADs completely I am very tired mentally, morose, moody, withdrawn (don't want to talk to anyone at all), unmoved by anything (except when I see ads for new drugs in development), very apathetic, loss of appetite, smoking incessantly, agitation, lack of concentration, extremely negative and sometimes I feel retarted, like I can't think straight and I get lost easily. I don't suffer from phobias and I don't get anxious about anything situational, infact my life is pretty much perfect, that's the irony I should be enjoying myself.
I often feel suicidal but haven't got the nerve to do it, I just fantasise about joining the army and putting myself in perilous situations. When I think about jumping into the sea, I can't do it because of the water being too cold, I couldn't take an overdose becuase I think what if I don't die and just end up even more depressed only with liver failure as well. Also I love my mum, wouldn't want to hurt her and don't want to go to hell, although sometimes I think that's where I am now. I wonder sometimes if all of the people on this board are in hell, we just don't know it, maybe we all did something terrible in a previous life.
SSRIs and tryciclics used to work really well for me at one time now they just make me agitated. Anyway here is the list of things I have tried over the last year:-
Seroxat (Paxil) - one month - Constant state of Anxiety
Remeron - Anxious
Prothiaden (Dothiapin) - Constant state of anxiety
Prothiaden and Prozac - Anxious and sick, edventually seizure when we upped the dose.
Prozac and Lithium - Flat and sick, sometimes anxious
Effexor (3 or 4 months) Not anxious, more focused but very empty, tired and sometimes melancholic.
Effexor & Lamical (same as Effexor alone)
Sertraline(off and on) Anxious loss of appetiteZyprexa when needed - Only thing that has helped but makes me feel too detached and unlike myself. Too machine like.
I have been messing around with the medications and my psychiatrist istn't happy with me for doing this(can't say I blame him) but they all seem to make me worse in different ways so out of desperation I try my own little experiments. Years ago when they used to work I followed the instructions. If the side effects were just physical I could handle it but I can't handle the mental torture, I'd rather pass out.
That's why I'm looking into Nardil, I know I have to give it a while, which is why I'm asking about agitation, because if they make me agitated then I will just end up coming off them within days.Denise
Posted by JonW on August 1, 2002, at 10:02:31
In reply to Nardil and agitation, posted by denise528 on August 1, 2002, at 6:12:40
Denise,
You can combine Nardil with atypical anti-psychotics for the agitation. When I was on Nardil I used Risperdal with great success. Now I'm using Geodon which I like better.
Jon
Posted by denise528 on August 1, 2002, at 10:24:20
In reply to Re: Nardil and agitation » denise528, posted by JonW on August 1, 2002, at 10:02:31
Thanks Jon,
Did the Nardil make you extra agitated then? I'm not sure about taking a drug which makes you agitated just to have to take yet another one to take away the agitation.
Denise
Posted by denise528 on August 2, 2002, at 4:33:29
In reply to Re: Nardil and agitation, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 8:24:09
> >Cybercafe,
To answer your question, I don't think I am atypical as I my mood istn't effected by external factors, I am melancholic, slightly retarted, agitated and withdrawn. Is it worth me trying Nardil or will this make me more agitated?
Have you any ideas?
Denise
Posted by JonW on August 2, 2002, at 16:30:17
In reply to Re: Nardil and agitation, posted by denise528 on August 1, 2002, at 10:24:20
Denise,
The Nardil did make me agitated but I'm bipolar and sensitive to anti-depressants. Have you been evaluated for bipolar spectrum disorder? Have you ever been on any "mood stabilizers"? You might want to consider Lamictal as it has anti-depressant qualities to it. I believe the latest thinking is that it's not so good for the highs of bipolar disorder but is very effective for bipolar depression. Have you ever been on any atypical anti-psychotics? Something like zyprexa or Geodon that address both agitation and depression might be worth asking your pdoc about.
The truth is that if your illness is intractable it may require more than one med. However, I certainly understand not wanting to take a med just to have to take another med unless it is absolutely necessary. The thing about Nardil is that it sucks if it doesn't work. The side-effects are worse than other drugs (although it's my understanding that things get better with time) and you generally have to wait 2 weeks before starting another anti-depressant. So if it doesn't work, you've put yourself through side-effects and are out 2 weeks with no AD (a stimulant could be prescribed to get you through, though). On the flip side, this drug has performed miracles for many people. If you decide to take it and can tolerate the side-effects don't give up on it too soon. You might want to try Parnate instead. It's my understanding that it is more suited for endogenous depressions and has fewer side-effects. Another option is moclobemide, however, it is one of the least potent ADs. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective, but there are no food restrictions, no withdrawal, and no 2 week wait to try the next AD. I've been on this drug and it didn't make me agitated. In fact, I'm probably going to try it again but this time I'm going to give it a full 12 weeks.
One question, are you sure you're with the best pdoc for you? He doesn't sound so great telling you your illness isn't bad enough to try Nardil. I've heard several pdocs say that a failure of 2 ADs justifies a trial of an MAOI. You might want to take a look at this questionare prepared by Ivan Goldberg to see what you think of your pdoc:
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.expert.html
Anyway, just a thought... good luck with everything!
Jon
Posted by cybercafe on August 3, 2002, at 6:08:48
In reply to Re: Well, is it worth me giving nardil a try?, posted by denise528 on August 2, 2002, at 4:33:29
> To answer your question, I don't think I am atypical as I my mood istn't effected by external factors, I am melancholic, slightly retarted, agitated and withdrawn. Is it worth me trying Nardil or will this make me more agitated?
> Have you any ideas?
.... did most of the antidepressants you take relieve your depression ? i know you said you still had anxiety .. i can relate to that...
did you find that the dothiepen/prothiaden work better for depression than others ?
have you been able to take a lower dose of a drug that makes you feel "flat"? (e.g. lithium augmentation)
.... how much does the anxiety affect your life compared to the depression? ...
myself i found that a lot of my anxiety is being rid by Parnate... but there is still some agitation ... i tried SSRIs and they don't even come close to the relief i get on parnate...
... GAD is supposed to respond to a lot of different meds (serzone? buspirone?) so i probably wouldn't go to something like Nardil just for GAD as i hear the side effects aren't the greatest... but i also read that you aren't getting relief from your depression anymore from SSRIs or the TCA ... if your depression is really bad, i'd say go for the nardil.. if agitation in the beginning is a problem, take a benzo ... if the depression isn't so bad, .. perhaps you could try another TCA if the side effects are much better than Nardil (really i don't know personally) ...
i have zero experience or knowledge of TCAs as i am not melancholic.. but they do sound like something you can explore...
... personally in my case i would go for whatever works for depression without really thinking much about anxiety... and then throw in gabapentin to get rid of anxiety and agitation
Posted by denise528 on August 3, 2002, at 7:10:29
In reply to Re: Nardil and agitation » denise528, posted by JonW on August 2, 2002, at 16:30:17
> Denise,
>
> The Nardil did make me agitated but I'm bipolar and sensitive to anti-depressants. Have you been evaluated for bipolar spectrum disorder? Have you ever been on any "mood stabilizers"? You might want to consider Lamictal as it has anti-depressant qualities to it. I believe the latest thinking is that it's not so good for the highs of bipolar disorder but is very effective for bipolar depression. Have you ever been on any atypical anti-psychotics? Something like zyprexa or Geodon that address both agitation and depression might be worth asking your pdoc about.
>
> The truth is that if your illness is intractable it may require more than one med. However, I certainly understand not wanting to take a med just to have to take another med unless it is absolutely necessary. The thing about Nardil is that it sucks if it doesn't work. The side-effects are worse than other drugs (although it's my understanding that things get better with time) and you generally have to wait 2 weeks before starting another anti-depressant. So if it doesn't work, you've put yourself through side-effects and are out 2 weeks with no AD (a stimulant could be prescribed to get you through, though). On the flip side, this drug has performed miracles for many people. If you decide to take it and can tolerate the side-effects don't give up on it too soon. You might want to try Parnate instead. It's my understanding that it is more suited for endogenous depressions and has fewer side-effects. Another option is moclobemide, however, it is one of the least potent ADs. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective, but there are no food restrictions, no withdrawal, and no 2 week wait to try the next AD. I've been on this drug and it didn't make me agitated. In fact, I'm probably going to try it again but this time I'm going to give it a full 12 weeks.
>
> One question, are you sure you're with the best pdoc for you? He doesn't sound so great telling you your illness isn't bad enough to try Nardil. I've heard several pdocs say that a failure of 2 ADs justifies a trial of an MAOI. You might want to take a look at this questionare prepared by Ivan Goldberg to see what you think of your pdoc:
>
> http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.expert.html
>
> Anyway, just a thought... good luck with everything!
>
> JonHi Jon,
Thanks so much for getting back. To answer you question I have tried Lamictal (50mg) and it doestn't really do anything, I don't get any side effects from it but neither does it make me feel any better. Effexor just makes me feel drowsy, antisocial and completely unmotivated, the only good thing about it is that it relaxes me.
I'm fairly certain my depression is endogoneous so maybe Parnate would help.
The only thing that gets me out of the pit is Zyprexa 10mg but it worries me that I'm taking an antipsychotic as I'm not psychotic. I'm also worried about the long term effects and that maybe I'll end up not only depressed but also with Tardive dyskinia.
I'd like to try ECT but everyone looks aghast when I mention it, they think that I just want to try the most drastic thing out. I, I really don't care anymore if I do die, I'm more scared of this depression than I am about dying and I don't care about losing my memory as there is nothing about this past year that I want to remember.
I do sort of like my psychiatrist, he is very enthusiastic about what he does but he won't accept that I'm not getting better after a year, I think this is because it's not a very good reflection on him. He keeps saying well at least your working and your not in the state you were in the first time I saw you. I did see two other Psychiatrists on the National Health and they were both crap, one was totally disinterested and the other one, although nicer was a bit like Manuel out of Fawlty Towers, I had no confidence in him.
I don't know if you are from the UK but the standard of Mental Health care is awful, we are way behind the states, you don't get to hear about any studies.
At the moment I am messing around with my drugs, sometimes taking Effexor to calm me and other times taking Sertraline to wake me up. Sometimes I feel better the day after I have taken them, so I go through a crappy day on them just to have a few good days afterwards.
Anyway, thanks for your advice. I really don't know what I'm going to do next, just keep plodding on I guess.
And thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Denise
Posted by denise528 on August 3, 2002, at 7:22:36
In reply to Re: Well, is it worth me giving nardil a try?, posted by cybercafe on August 3, 2002, at 6:08:48
Hi,
Thanks for the advice.
In comparison to the way tricyclics and SSRIs worked in the past, I don't think they have helped my depression much this time round, just made me more agitated, funnily enough when I took a sertraline a few days after stopping effexor I didn't get agitated.
I might try your suggestion Nardil and Neurontin, I just need to find another psychiatrist who will let me try it. When I was discussing it with him, he said "well you won't be able to eat cheese and certain foods" like I really care. I can't believe he said that.
Trouble is, I'm not sure I could stand another 6 weeks of waiting, I always want them to work straight away like they used to.
I'd really like to try ECT, it doestn't scare me at all after the way I've been feeling. Having said that when it actually came to it, I'd probably freak out.
Denise
Posted by missliz on August 4, 2002, at 0:27:53
In reply to Re: Nardil - Cybercafe?, posted by denise528 on August 3, 2002, at 7:22:36
You need to understand that MAOIs are a lifestyle, and you need to be totally commited to this lifestyle. It's a diet, though it's not as restricted as it was. It's been re-researched and a lot of the retrictions were myths. The trickier part is the restrictions on other medications, especially psuedophedrine and dextromethoraphan. Eating out and going to parties requires both vigilence and diplomacy- you'll need to suddenly become allergic to dairy.
Of course if it works you will be going to parties for a change.
Nardil is the single best thing that ever happened to me. I loved Parnate, too. MAOIs are indicated for anergic depression and/ or social phobia. You sound anergic. Another current theory that early episodes of depression respond to SSRIs but later episodes require MAOIs, which are more agressive at rewiring your brain.
Agitation? My experience is that 75 percent of shrinks that use that word are actually missing a diagnoses of anxiety. They're taught to keep the patients 'compliant' on anti psychotics. When I was on Nardil I never needed an AD, but I used 5mg of Valium a day. I needed a lot less mood stabilizer, too. Something to be aware of- Parnate and selegiline(my current MAOI, and excellent!) metabolise into amphetamine and methamphetamine. I think Nardil does too, but I'm not positive. This is an excellent thing for the anergicly depressed but insomnia can be a real problem. You want to start a low dose and go up slowly.
Don't be fooled into taking a novel anti psychotic if you aren't psychotic. They're way over rated in my opinion and cause horrendous damage. Zyprexa causes rapid weight gain to the point of morbid obesity, and then there's heart disease, diabetes, joint damage, jerks on the street yelling insults, ect. There's a huge wave of lawsuits starting over this drug and Eli Lilly's shameless behavior in promoting it as the psych cure all. Does it help some people? Yes. Does it maim and injure others? Yes.
What these folks who've never been trained in psychiatry don't know is that Zyprexa and MAOIs are a disastrous combination; I don't remember what the famous psychopharmacologist said would happen, but only use Risperdol with MAOIs. Or the old drugs. Some people still like them better, and yes, the novel ADs can cause tardive dyskenisia.
I'd try the Nardil and see. You'll need to give it a good couple of months to work. Parnate is rougher stuff and you might want to save it for second. Nardil supposedly causes weight gain, too, but I felt so much better on it I took up sport (bike racing) and lost a lot of weight. I had a lot of fun, too, and got a masters degree. Worked for me.
Why don't you use the Google and search it? Poke around www.biopsychiatry.com and see what you think.Miss Liz
Posted by JonW on August 4, 2002, at 3:55:26
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by missliz on August 4, 2002, at 0:27:53
Dear MissLiz,
I'm so happy to hear MAOIs are working wonders for you! They really are amazing drugs... But please reconsider your bias towards atypical anti-psychotics. I'm not psychotic and Geodon has worked wonders for my bipolar disorder. I've experienced no weight gain, no TD, and well, no side-effects. I may be the exception and I know you acknowledged that these drugs work for some people, but that's no small thing. Actually, they work for lots of people if you listen to the results of controlled clinical trials. I've been on nearly every atypical with few side-effects (except weight gain on Zyprexa). For many of us, the risk of suicide is far greater than any other risk.
Jon
Posted by cybercafe on August 4, 2002, at 7:03:30
In reply to Re: Nardil and agitation » Jon W, posted by denise528 on August 3, 2002, at 7:10:29
> Thanks so much for getting back. To answer you question I have tried Lamictal (50mg) and it doestn't really do anything, I don't get any side
wow you found a doc on the NHS who has heard of lamictal ?? ... my only experience was when i went to the head psychiatrist at edgware hospital in london
btw 50 mg is a small dose... i believe studies show more responders at 200 mg...
i have heard of some people going up to 800 mg> I'm fairly certain my depression is endogoneous so maybe Parnate would help.
... well i believe all we know about endogenous depression is that TCAs are better than SSRIs ...
.. i think i was just recommending it for vegetative symptoms (sorry can't remember if you had vegetative symptoms or not, with this damn Parnate I am running outside and socializing all day long ... today it's been Parnate 5, Social Phobia 0)however Jon is right... most docs will say that if you have tried 3 meds with only a partial response and you havn't tried an MAOI it is time to try an MAOI (my doc actually used it as a first line med but that is very unusual)...
.. if you are interested you can search the web for "clinical guidelines" or "practice guidelines" + depression
> I don't know if you are from the UK but the standard of Mental Health care is awful, we are way behind the states, you don't get to hear about any studies.yeah i feel bad for you guys... though they always told me to see a private doc, and the private doc told me i should get insurance (lie on the form)
good luck
Posted by cybercafe on August 4, 2002, at 7:09:06
In reply to Re: Nardil - Cybercafe?, posted by denise528 on August 3, 2002, at 7:22:36
> Trouble is, I'm not sure I could stand another 6 weeks of waiting, I always want them to work straight away like they used to.
>
> I'd really like to try ECT, it doestn't scare me at all after the way I've been feeling. Having said that when it actually came to it, I'd probably freak out.yeah if i got to the point where i couldn't stand to wait i would consider ECT a welcome relief...
and i respect the opinion of LostBoy and I know he has researched it well and seems to believe there is high effectiveness with low side effects these days (when they supply oxygen?) ...i mean on days when i feel really suicidal (goes away after 5 min or after i take some gabapentin... antipsychotics are supposed to work well as well but turns out i don't need them) i think about stimulant augmentation or taking an opiate as i believe they are supposed to have a strong effect and work in about a week ?
....
.. otherwise i would definately want to have ECT done... i mean if you are considering something as self-harming as suicide, it's not likely that ECT can do anything worse :)
Posted by cybercafe on August 4, 2002, at 7:19:44
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by missliz on August 4, 2002, at 0:27:53
> You need to understand that MAOIs are a lifestyle, and you need to be totally commited to this lifestyle. It's a diet, though it's not as
hmmm.... the MAOI diet doesn't bother me at all... it's just not something i think about other than the 1 or 2 minutes a day when i first began selecting meals...
>especially psuedophedrine and dextromethoraphan. Eating out and going to
ah... are these popular?? i actually never took them before so i really don't feel like i'm missing out at all
>parties requires both vigilence and diplomacy- you'll need to suddenly become allergic to dairy.
hmmmm... i don't think milk is prohibited... i think you can pretty much go for anything except marmite, fava beans, tap beer, aged cheese and spoiled meat ... soy sauce must be taken in moderation
>indicated for anergic depression and/ or social phobia. You sound anergic. Another current theory
yeah... SSRIs are supposed to be indicated for social phobia, but they didn't do anything close to what Parnate has done for me (and at the lowest dose, after only 6 weeks!)
>anergicly depressed but insomnia can be a real problem. You want to start a low dose and go up slowly.
... insomnia is thought to be much easier to treat than hypersomnia...
probably because sleeping agents react much less with other meds than stimulants ... and have a more benign effect...> What these folks who've never been trained in psychiatry don't know is that Zyprexa and MAOIs are a disastrous combination; I don't remember what the famous psychopharmacologist said would happen, but only use Risperdol with MAOIs. Or the old drugs. Some people still like
i'd really be interested in knowing why this is...
> I'd try the Nardil and see. You'll need to give it a good couple of months to work. Parnate is rougher stuff and you might want to save it for second. Nardil supposedly causes weight gain,
hmmm... in many ways i think parnate has a much more benign side effect profile...
weight loss, increased libido, no hypotension, energy ...in fact my doc said while he would perscribe parnate as a first line med ... he never perscribes nardil cuz he thinks the side effect profile is just too horrendous
don't get me wrong though... i'm sure it's a LOT better than depression/anxiety
Posted by angel1 on August 4, 2002, at 7:28:51
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by missliz on August 4, 2002, at 0:27:53
Hi MIssliz
Why did you stop the Nardil if it worked so well?
It seems people who have used it have great success and then end up stopping it without telling why. Just curious as to "why" you are
not taking it now. Thanks
Posted by JonW on August 4, 2002, at 8:49:58
In reply to Re: Nardil: Attn: MISS LIZ, posted by angel1 on August 4, 2002, at 7:28:51
> Hi MIssliz
>
> Why did you stop the Nardil if it worked so well?
> It seems people who have used it have great success and then end up stopping it without telling why. Just curious as to "why" you are
> not taking it now. Thanks
For me it was SIDE-EFFECTS... ugh!!! Too bad because otherwise I would have given it more than 8 weeks to see if it would've worked.Jon
Posted by missliz on August 4, 2002, at 22:25:32
In reply to Re: Nardil: Attn: MISS LIZ, posted by angel1 on August 4, 2002, at 7:28:51
I suddenly started getting strange reactions to the drug when I took it, nausea, poisoned feeling, scary stuff. I was at university at the time, and had to resort to the schools hack pdoc who took me off of it 'cause she was afraid of it. It's since been proposed that no med is forever, at least for me. I have a lot of trouble with out of control side effects. I wonder if the problem was a combination reaction thing as I was also on tegretol with it. This is now considered a lethal combination. Anyway, I had to stop taking something I was so sick.
Maois are interesting because of the way they really rewire your brain and allow you to learn to be well. Therapy is recommended with them. I've never been anywhere near as sick since stopping Nardil as I was before I took it, even on practicly no meds.
Now I'm on selegiline and like it. Very similar to Nardil, and has anticovulsant properties in rabbits. This is important because I've had so much mood stabilizer trouble I'm on neurontin- low dose- and fish oil. I've quit rapid cycling though, and the selegiline seems to have done this.
Hope this was enlightening ;)Miss Liz
Posted by missliz on August 5, 2002, at 0:18:04
In reply to Atypicals (Re: Nardil) » missliz, posted by JonW on August 4, 2002, at 3:55:26
If novel APs work for you thats great- BUT- you would be in the minority if you never had a side effect. Hie yourself down to Barnes and Noble and find a copy of "Mad in America", the name of who's author escapes me, but he's a respected medical journalist, and maybe a few scales will fall from your eyes. There have been huge scandals and horrendous patient abuse in the testing and marketing of these drugs, especially Zyprexa. Drug companies serve the stockholder, not patients. We're just cash cows for sacrifice.
You'll find more than excellent sources and annotation for the content of this book, but for me it just confirmed what I already knew from taking the drugs and going around and talking to people about their experiences. Lots of people, as I was working for Freinds NAMI and got to deal with other psych patients all day. For every success story like you (and how successful is that?) there are people who's lives are made hell by side effects. Or just the effects. APs are not always nesassary, and novel APs are definately not for everyone. Maybe Denise deserves to be supported in her resistance to using them. I don't like the tone of "crazy patient who can't make her own treatment decisions" that runs through the culture of psychiatry. Isn't this site supposed to be part of liberating us from that? Maybe she knows what she needs and should be given more credit. I've fought pdocs tooth and nail before to do it my way and I was right.
I gained almost 100 pounds in six months on Zyprexa, and did I ever see a scale in my shrinks office? Doctors are supposed to moniter known possible dangerous side effects. Psychiatrists seem to be excused from the "Do no harm" clause though. My feet and knees blew apart from the strain and I'll be doing my fifth reparative orthopedic surgury in two years on Tuesday. LSU Orthopedics has seen more than a few cases like mine.
Drug Co.s have huge marketing budgets to push the newer and MUCH more expensive drugs as a panacea for everything. These drugs are in my opinion overused and often misused. Been on them all, and a lot of the old ones too. What a lovely rose colored world they make, and what an inconsequential life. For every decent quality of existence they restore ADs make someone less than human. PMDs love them though- a patient with an iced and warehoused mind is "compliant". The fact that the rest of society thinks fat and stupid doesn't seem to matter. The regular doctors are horrified by what they see these drugs do to some people
My statement about only Risperdal with MAOIs comes from the lips of James Barbee MD, who you've never heard of but your psydoc has. He's a research psychopharmacologist dealing with anxiety and mood disorders, and probably knows better than any body who posts here how not to fry your brain on bad MAOI interactions. They do learn stuff in med school.
Oh, and we all live with the nasty cold hand of suicide on our shoulders here. If you need Geodon to shake it off fine. Respect that the rest of us need different things. Geodon just gave me a rash.Miss Liz
Posted by JonW on August 5, 2002, at 5:49:24
In reply to Re: Atypicals (Re: Nardil) Jon W, posted by missliz on August 5, 2002, at 0:18:04
MissLiz,
You make a lot of good points. What I was really trying to say is that we're all wires and electricity and different things work for different people. The decision to try a drug should certainly be an informed one. However, if I took your view on atypicals, I'm not sure I ever would've tried Geodon. This drug has been nothing short of a miracle -- it's stabilized my cycling and addressed my mixed states. Perhaps more caution should be used when prescribing these agents, but what they are capable of shouldn't be understated. In my last post I certainly didn't mean to exclude you or anyone from having to deal with suicidal feelings, I just meant to include those who do. And for those who do, these drugs can be lifesavers.
Jon
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