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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bekka H. on March 3, 2002, at 11:05:57
Hi. Does anyone here take large doses of Inositol for depression? I heard that it might be helpful, but I don't know anyone personally who has benefited from it.
Posted by TSA West on March 3, 2002, at 13:46:17
In reply to Inositol for depression?, posted by Bekka H. on March 3, 2002, at 11:05:57
All the studies on Inositol and depression/bipolar were done in Israel, and I've never met anyone who had success on it-- leading me to believe that an Israeli company has a financial interest in making inositol seem like an antidepressant.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 3, 2002, at 14:05:54
In reply to Inositol for depression?, posted by Bekka H. on March 3, 2002, at 11:05:57
Yes!! It does help, supposedly by working on the second messenger system downline from the synaptic system. I use it in conjunction with all my other meds.
There are many different types and the one that has had the most beneficial studies and has helped me is myo-inositol. Jarrow Formulations makes a superior brand in powdered form. iHerb.com has the best prices. I take it twice a day, about 1 tablespoon in a little juice diluted with water. I also take a break from it 1 week out of the month. It's definitely helped a lot. But watch out since at first it can cause huge diarrea. So go slowly, about 1/2 teaspoon every few days building up. You should notice a calmer and less depressed mood in about 1 week. Good luck.
> Hi. Does anyone here take large doses of Inositol for depression? I heard that it might be helpful, but I don't know anyone personally who has benefited from it.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 4, 2002, at 1:16:45
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » Bekka H., posted by BarbaraCat on March 3, 2002, at 14:05:54
is this ok for bipolar? I bought the pills once,
but would have to swallow the whole bottle to get
like 12 g (if memory serves me correct that's the
therapeutic dose). Felt like I was practicing a
suicide attempt swallowing so many pills.-John
> Yes!! It does help, supposedly by working on the second messenger system downline from the synaptic system. I use it in conjunction with all my other meds.
>
> There are many different types and the one that has had the most beneficial studies and has helped me is myo-inositol. Jarrow Formulations makes a superior brand in powdered form. iHerb.com has the best prices. I take it twice a day, about 1 tablespoon in a little juice diluted with water. I also take a break from it 1 week out of the month. It's definitely helped a lot. But watch out since at first it can cause huge diarrea. So go slowly, about 1/2 teaspoon every few days building up. You should notice a calmer and less depressed mood in about 1 week. Good luck.
>
> > Hi. Does anyone here take large doses of Inositol for depression? I heard that it might be helpful, but I don't know anyone personally who has benefited from it.
Posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 4, 2002, at 1:56:30
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » Bekka H., posted by TSA West on March 3, 2002, at 13:46:17
> All the studies on Inositol and depression/bipolar were done in Israel, and I've never met anyone who had success on it-- leading me to believe that an Israeli company has a financial interest in making inositol seem like an antidepressant.
It seems that way only because the leading inositol researcher, Haim Belmaker (along with Joseph Levine and Jonathan Benjamin), is from Ben Gurion University. It definitely has demonstrated antidepressant (bipolar, too), anti-panic, and anti-obsessive properties. Also, there have been several inositol studies published in the U.S. I know for a fact that Gary Sachs at MGH is using it a lot in bipolar depression, and it's being used for refractory bipolar depression in the STEP-BD study (bipolar).
Ben Gurion U. is trying to market a kit based on inositol levels to determine lithium responsivity.
http://www.bgu.ac.il/bgn/Manic.htmlBlue
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 4, 2002, at 2:03:18
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » BarbaraCat, posted by JohnX2 on March 4, 2002, at 1:16:45
I'm Bipolar II (I think) and it's OK for me. Again, I take the Jarrow Formulations *myo-inositol powder*, not capsules, and not any other form of inositol. I'd think one would OD on the capsule components alone taking that massive amount. I am curious about the the therapeutic route, however, for bipolars. Lithium is supposed to reduce the brain's inositol load, too much of which provokes mania. I've found that it has a calming effect on me, so I don't think anyone really knows what's going on.
>
> is this ok for bipolar? I bought the pills once,
> but would have to swallow the whole bottle to get
> like 12 g (if memory serves me correct that's the
> therapeutic dose). Felt like I was practicing a
> suicide attempt swallowing so many pills.
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
> > Yes!! It does help, supposedly by working on the second messenger system downline from the synaptic system. I use it in conjunction with all my other meds.
> >
> > There are many different types and the one that has had the most beneficial studies and has helped me is myo-inositol. Jarrow Formulations makes a superior brand in powdered form. iHerb.com has the best prices. I take it twice a day, about 1 tablespoon in a little juice diluted with water. I also take a break from it 1 week out of the month. It's definitely helped a lot. But watch out since at first it can cause huge diarrea. So go slowly, about 1/2 teaspoon every few days building up. You should notice a calmer and less depressed mood in about 1 week. Good luck.
> >
> > > Hi. Does anyone here take large doses of Inositol for depression? I heard that it might be helpful, but I don't know anyone personally who has benefited from it.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 4, 2002, at 2:16:53
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » JohnX2, posted by BarbaraCat on March 4, 2002, at 2:03:18
I'm getting rid of this stupid depression thing
but I'm pingponging into hypomania, I'm into some
serious need of CALM!!! need some sanity in my life.
I know all the signs point towards lithium, but they'd have
to pump that metal into my dead veins and have it revieve me
before I'd take it. So I think I'll give this inositol a
try. I haven't given't it a shot, and I've tried all the
other alternative routes, may as well finish the circuit!
Thanks for the tip off!-John
> I'm Bipolar II (I think) and it's OK for me. Again, I take the Jarrow Formulations *myo-inositol powder*, not capsules, and not any other form of inositol. I'd think one would OD on the capsule components alone taking that massive amount. I am curious about the the therapeutic route, however, for bipolars. Lithium is supposed to reduce the brain's inositol load, too much of which provokes mania. I've found that it has a calming effect on me, so I don't think anyone really knows what's going on.
>
> >
> > is this ok for bipolar? I bought the pills once,
> > but would have to swallow the whole bottle to get
> > like 12 g (if memory serves me correct that's the
> > therapeutic dose). Felt like I was practicing a
> > suicide attempt swallowing so many pills.
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Yes!! It does help, supposedly by working on the second messenger system downline from the synaptic system. I use it in conjunction with all my other meds.
> > >
> > > There are many different types and the one that has had the most beneficial studies and has helped me is myo-inositol. Jarrow Formulations makes a superior brand in powdered form. iHerb.com has the best prices. I take it twice a day, about 1 tablespoon in a little juice diluted with water. I also take a break from it 1 week out of the month. It's definitely helped a lot. But watch out since at first it can cause huge diarrea. So go slowly, about 1/2 teaspoon every few days building up. You should notice a calmer and less depressed mood in about 1 week. Good luck.
> > >
> > > > Hi. Does anyone here take large doses of Inositol for depression? I heard that it might be helpful, but I don't know anyone personally who has benefited from it.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 4, 2002, at 12:46:56
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » BarbaraCat, posted by JohnX2 on March 4, 2002, at 2:16:53
I hear you, bud. Hopefully it will alleviate the discomfort somewhat. Just curious, what is your strong objection to lithium? I fought it tooth and nail for years, but am very glad I finally 'caved in'. The lithium, the klonopin and remeron are the real ticket for me. I don't think that inositol by itself was lifting me out of the depression, but is a good adjunct to the the other heavy artillery. - Barbara
Posted by JohnX2 on March 4, 2002, at 17:28:12
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » JohnX2, posted by BarbaraCat on March 4, 2002, at 12:46:56
> Just curious, what is your strong objection to lithium?
Because if I hold out on a medicine for a long
enough period of time and battle pain and
suffering while going down wild goose chases,
then that increases the odds that the medicine
will work when I ultimately cave. ;) This is my life.In all seriousness, I'm mostly battleworn from the
20+ medicines I've been on. I've alleviated my Major
Depression symptoms with Lamictal (thank heaven).
I seem to be hitting paydirt getting rid of these
excruciating myofacial pains with Topamax and Serzone.
Plus, I have no unbearable side effects from the
conglomeration of these medicines. Main mood issue is
that I'm a bit cyclothymic, slipping into and outta
hypomania, mild depression, OK. I've tried most the
other mood stabilizers, pretty much out of options.
Probably lithium would iron things out, just holding out.....
don't know if can stand physical side effect torment any
more...one of these day's I'll wise up. Like you
said I may be able to skimp by on a low dose of lithium
since I'm really just augmenting a regimen that has
about 80% of things under control.Thanks for caring,
John
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 4, 2002, at 19:57:36
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » BarbaraCat, posted by JohnX2 on March 4, 2002, at 17:28:12
John,
Yeah, we of the walking wounded do care for each other. Thank God. I get sick of the veiled insinuations by 'normals' that if only we bucked up and didn't feel so darn sorry for ourselves... Bullcrap. I'll tell you what has worked for me more than anything. It's being able to get to that crest, that point of energy where I can manage to lug my butt out for a walk, or working in the garden, or a few feeble stretches. Moving my body is, for me, the panacea. Energy begets enery and vice versa. It's just that I frequently feel so awful with the body pains and the 'what's the friggen use' mindset that I can't always get to that healthy sweaty place.As far as the lithium, I guess you're just going to have to get a hit one way or the other if it's right for you. But adding meds upon meds doesn't make good sense from a liver's point of view. I just wish I'd won the lottery and could go to a lovely healing spa and clean my body out, get soothed and pampered and start from there. I don't care what they say - winning the lottery would truly solve ALL my problems. Cheers! - Barbara
> > Just curious, what is your strong objection to lithium?
>
> Because if I hold out on a medicine for a long
> enough period of time and battle pain and
> suffering while going down wild goose chases,
> then that increases the odds that the medicine
> will work when I ultimately cave. ;) This is my life.
>
> In all seriousness, I'm mostly battleworn from the
> 20+ medicines I've been on. I've alleviated my Major
> Depression symptoms with Lamictal (thank heaven).
> I seem to be hitting paydirt getting rid of these
> excruciating myofacial pains with Topamax and Serzone.
> Plus, I have no unbearable side effects from the
> conglomeration of these medicines. Main mood issue is
> that I'm a bit cyclothymic, slipping into and outta
> hypomania, mild depression, OK. I've tried most the
> other mood stabilizers, pretty much out of options.
> Probably lithium would iron things out, just holding out.....
> don't know if can stand physical side effect torment any
> more...one of these day's I'll wise up. Like you
> said I may be able to skimp by on a low dose of lithium
> since I'm really just augmenting a regimen that has
> about 80% of things under control.
>
> Thanks for caring,
> John
Posted by Cam W. on March 4, 2002, at 23:12:58
In reply to Inositol for depression?, posted by Bekka H. on March 3, 2002, at 11:05:57
Bekka - I think that the rationale for using inositol for bipolar disorder comes from studies showing that lithium interrupts the intracellular phosphoinositol pathway, which in a roundabout way stabilizes the cell membrane by regulating calcium ion concentrations via calcium release from the endoplasmic reticulum (intracellular calcium ions) and regulating the calcium ion channel in the neuron's cell wall (extracellular calcium ion flux into the neuron).
I believe that this mechanism is acing more on the mania, rather than the depression. Also, the body makes inositol, so I am not sure that taking megadoses of inositol would increase intracellular inositol levels by a significant amount, as the inositol is broken down in the stomach an in the bloodstream into it's component parts. You would get some increase in intracellular inositol, but I would not believe that it would be to any great extent.
This is just my opinion, and I have not seen any mechanism whereby the inositol is taken up into neurons intact. - Cam
Posted by Bekka H. on March 4, 2002, at 23:18:48
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » Bekka H., posted by Cam W. on March 4, 2002, at 23:12:58
Cam, thank you so much for your explanation!
Posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 5, 2002, at 10:18:10
In reply to Re: Inositol for depression? » Bekka H., posted by Cam W. on March 4, 2002, at 23:12:58
Hi Cam - Tomorrow, as part of the STEP-BD study Randomized Care Pathway, I'll be randomized to either Risperdal (which I can't tolerate) or Inositol 12 g/day. Given that I'm randomized to Inositol and respond to it, and want to continue it following the study (even if I get Risperdal, I want to try Inositol), I'm trying to determine which product is closest to the one used in a previous study published by Dr. Chengappa in _Bipolar Disorders_; March, 2000. Here's the link to the firm where he obtained it: http://www.spectrumchemical.com - if you enter I1004 in the search box, it brings you to it. (500 grams for $74.80)
Since they won't sell to individuals (though there's a toll-free no. for pharmacists), someone gave me two names of chemical firms that sell to individuals. They are: http://www.voightglobal.com (click on "Nutraceuticals" and scroll down to "inositol") - 500 g = $85.00
and: http://www.lktlabs.com (click on "catalog", then on left "G-L - 500 grams = $77.50).
Now, I read BarbaraCat's post about Jarrow Formula and it's a fantastic price. (About 25% of the cost of the other products.) My question is: Is there a difference in the quality among the inositol sold by the three firms I listed and the inositol made by Jarrow Formulas? I'm wondering how Jarrow could sell it so much cheaper, but if all the formulations are equivalent, then of course I'd purchase it from Jarrow.Thanks for any help you can provide.
Blue
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 5, 2002, at 13:18:38
In reply to Inositol question for Cam W., posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 5, 2002, at 10:18:10
Please note that the Jarrow Formulas form I use is myo-inositol in powdered form. The label reads 'this product contains pharmaceutical grade crystalline inositol. Contains no other substances'. There are other forms, inositol-hexaphosphate, IP6, etc., useful for other things but not mood disorders. Another form, epi-inositol has been the form touted as primary for affective disorders (practically impossible to locate and purchase, however). Here is a blurb reporting this:
Epi-Inositol and Inositol Depletion: Two New Treatment Approaches in Affective Disorder
by
Bersudsky Y, Einat H, Stahl Z, Belmaker RH
Beer-Sheba Mental Health Center,
PO Box 4600, Beer-Sheba, Israel.
Curr Psychiatry Rep 1999 Dec;1(2):141-147ABSTRACT
Inositol is a simple polyol precursor in a second messenger system important in brain myo-insitol, the natural isomer, which has been found to be therapeutically effective in depression, panic disorder, and obsessive-compulsive disorder in double-blind controlled trials. Recently, epi-inositol, an unnatural stereoisomer of myo-inositol, was found to have effects similar to those of myo-inositol to reverse lithium-pilocarpine seizures. We measured the behavior of rats in an elevated plus maze model of anxiety after chronic treatment of 11 daily intraperitoneal injections of epi-inositol, myo-inositol, or control solution. Epi-inositol reduced anxiety levels of rats compared with controls, and its effect was stronger than that of myo-inositol. Lithium has been hypothesized to alleviate mania by reducing brain inositol levels. Inositol in brain derives from the second messenger cycle, from new synthesis, or from diet via transport across the blood brain barrier. Because the first two are inhibited by lithium, we propose that an inositol-free diet will augment lithium action in mania by enhancing restriction of inositol."This last statement is pretty confusing - so is myo-inositol beneficial or detrimental for bipolar disorders? - Barbara
If you do a > Hi Cam - Tomorrow, as part of the STEP-BD study Randomized Care Pathway, I'll be randomized to either Risperdal (which I can't tolerate) or Inositol 12 g/day. Given that I'm randomized to Inositol and respond to it, and want to continue it following the study (even if I get Risperdal, I want to try Inositol), I'm trying to determine which product is closest to the one used in a previous study published by Dr. Chengappa in _Bipolar Disorders_; March, 2000. Here's the link to the firm where he obtained it: http://www.spectrumchemical.com - if you enter I1004 in the search box, it brings you to it. (500 grams for $74.80)
> Since they won't sell to individuals (though there's a toll-free no. for pharmacists), someone gave me two names of chemical firms that sell to individuals. They are: http://www.voightglobal.com (click on "Nutraceuticals" and scroll down to "inositol") - 500 g = $85.00
> and: http://www.lktlabs.com (click on "catalog", then on left "G-L - 500 grams = $77.50).
> Now, I read BarbaraCat's post about Jarrow Formula and it's a fantastic price. (About 25% of the cost of the other products.) My question is: Is there a difference in the quality among the inositol sold by the three firms I listed and the inositol made by Jarrow Formulas? I'm wondering how Jarrow could sell it so much cheaper, but if all the formulations are equivalent, then of course I'd purchase it from Jarrow.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.
>
> Blue
Posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 5, 2002, at 15:48:30
In reply to Inositol Info » Blue Cheer 1, posted by BarbaraCat on March 5, 2002, at 13:18:38
> Please note that the Jarrow Formulas form I use is myo-inositol in powdered form. The label reads 'this product contains pharmaceutical grade crystalline inositol. Contains no other substances'. There are other forms, inositol-hexaphosphate, IP6, etc., useful for other things but not mood disorders. Another form, epi-inositol has been the form touted as primary for affective disorders (practically impossible to locate and purchase, however). Here is a blurb reporting this:
>
> Epi-Inositol and Inositol Depletion: Two New Treatment Approaches in Affective Disorder
> by
> Bersudsky Y, Einat H, Stahl Z, Belmaker RH
> Beer-Sheba Mental Health Center,
> PO Box 4600, Beer-Sheba, Israel.
> Curr Psychiatry Rep 1999 Dec;1(2):141-147
>
> ABSTRACT
> Inositol is a simple polyol precursor in a second messenger system important in brain myo-insitol, the natural isomer, which has been found to be therapeutically effective in depression, panic disorder, and obsessive-compulsive disorder in double-blind controlled trials. Recently, epi-inositol, an unnatural stereoisomer of myo-inositol, was found to have effects similar to those of myo-inositol to reverse lithium-pilocarpine seizures. We measured the behavior of rats in an elevated plus maze model of anxiety after chronic treatment of 11 daily intraperitoneal injections of epi-inositol, myo-inositol, or control solution. Epi-inositol reduced anxiety levels of rats compared with controls, and its effect was stronger than that of myo-inositol. Lithium has been hypothesized to alleviate mania by reducing brain inositol levels. Inositol in brain derives from the second messenger cycle, from new synthesis, or from diet via transport across the blood brain barrier. Because the first two are inhibited by lithium, we propose that an inositol-free diet will augment lithium action in mania by enhancing restriction of inositol."
>
> This last statement is pretty confusing - so is myo-inositol beneficial or detrimental for bipolar disorders? - BarbaraThanks, Barbara. I flunked HS chemistry, so I'm baffled by anything I've ever read about Inositol. Inositol just seems so technical! Anyway, unless I hear something different, I'm going to order the same formula you're taking (from iherb.com). One thing I do know is that Dr. Chengappa's study used a powder form from Spectrum - for bipolar depression. All the studies I've read are about its use in OCD and bipolar disorder. Since I have a number of OCD symptoms and severe, refractory bipolar depression, I'm excited about trying it. If you go to the Bipolar Disorders Journal (Blackwell-Synergy) homepage and enter: xxx for U/N and xxx as P/W you can read the full-text article (in March 2000 issue, I think). Thanks for the tip about Jarrow.
Blue
>
> If you do a > Hi Cam - Tomorrow, as part of the STEP-BD study Randomized Care Pathway, I'll be randomized to either Risperdal (which I can't tolerate) or Inositol 12 g/day. Given that I'm randomized to Inositol and respond to it, and want to continue it following the study (even if I get Risperdal, I want to try Inositol), I'm trying to determine which product is closest to the one used in a previous study published by Dr. Chengappa in _Bipolar Disorders_; March, 2000. Here's the link to the firm where he obtained it: http://www.spectrumchemical.com - if you enter I1004 in the search box, it brings you to it. (500 grams for $74.80)
> > Since they won't sell to individuals (though there's a toll-free no. for pharmacists), someone gave me two names of chemical firms that sell to individuals. They are: http://www.voightglobal.com (click on "Nutraceuticals" and scroll down to "inositol") - 500 g = $85.00
> > and: http://www.lktlabs.com (click on "catalog", then on left "G-L - 500 grams = $77.50).
> > Now, I read BarbaraCat's post about Jarrow Formula and it's a fantastic price. (About 25% of the cost of the other products.) My question is: Is there a difference in the quality among the inositol sold by the three firms I listed and the inositol made by Jarrow Formulas? I'm wondering how Jarrow could sell it so much cheaper, but if all the formulations are equivalent, then of course I'd purchase it from Jarrow.
> >
> > Thanks for any help you can provide.
> >
> > Blue
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 5, 2002, at 15:57:20
In reply to Re: Inositol Info » BarbaraCat, posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 5, 2002, at 15:48:30
If you find out anything that counterindicates it's use with lithium, please let me know. The available studies out there contradict each each other on that subject. I do take lithium and about 10 grams inositol daily and I'd hate to think they're cancelling each other out. - Barbara
Posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 5, 2002, at 16:36:43
In reply to Re: Inositol Info » Blue Cheer 1, posted by BarbaraCat on March 5, 2002, at 15:57:20
> If you find out anything that counterindicates it's use with lithium, please let me know. The available studies out there contradict each each other on that subject. I do take lithium and about 10 grams inositol daily and I'd hate to think they're cancelling each other out. - Barbara
It can definitely be used with lithium. Both the STEP-BD study and Dr. Chengappa's study ("Inositol as an add-on treatment for bipolar depression") use it with lithium (among other mood stabilizers). I'm taking lithium 900 mg/day and Lamictal 250 mg/day, and the study calls for 12 grams/day of Inositol.
Blue
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2002, at 16:41:50
In reply to Re: Inositol Info » BarbaraCat, posted by Blue Cheer 1 on March 5, 2002, at 15:48:30
> If you go to the Bipolar Disorders Journal (Blackwell-Synergy) homepage and enter: xxx for U/N and xxx as P/W you can read the full-text article (in March 2000 issue, I think).
Posting a site password that's intended for only your use is prohibited.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#copyright
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
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