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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by mdertinger on February 22, 2002, at 15:28:23
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
Didn't you answer your own question?
You said the "only "natural" thing that makes me feel normal or good is excessive exercise. However, I cannot run five miles a day."You could run 2 miles every other day and 3 miles on the other days. I think exercise, like meds, also takes a while to work it's wonderous ways.
When it comes to mental health, I really think getting your brain and body to perform in a consistant manner is important. Drug switching is really hard on your mental health.
Posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 15:40:50
In reply to Re: dope-amine dilemma, posted by mdertinger on February 22, 2002, at 15:28:23
I agree that exercise helps considerably (in fact, I'm a former college athlete-another example of self-medicating). However, it is "exessive" exercise that seems to do the trick (5 mile runs). Also, with two boys and a dissertation to finish, a dependence on exercise is unrealistic.
I lift weights and walk now but I don't want my mental health to be contingent upon running or working out everyday (and alot). That seems like added stress. I see exercise as serving a positive function but to augment a stabilized dopamine level. Appreciate your input though!
Thanks
Posted by OldSchool on February 22, 2002, at 16:11:33
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
> Just recently I have realized there is a good possibility I do not produce enough dopamine. This is after years of knowing that something was not quite right with me biochemically. Factors that influenced this decision:
> 1. I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict (speed)
> 2. Diagnosed with ADD.
> 3. Abuse coffee
> 4. Smoke cigarrettes
> 5. Familiar tremor (also my mom and my 13 year old son)
> 6. Adrenaline-junkie (esp. as kid)
> 7. Use sex as a mood elevator
>
>
> The only "natural" thing that makes me feel normal or good is excessive exercise. However, I cannot run five miles a day. Otherwise, I am sleepy, lethargic, and exist in a mental fog. These traits are exacerbated when I have tried SSRIs (paxil, zoloft, effexor). Serzone obliterated my short-term memory. Not surprisingly, wellbutrin has worked somewhat.
>
> Serotonin doesn't seem to be the problem but I feel strongly that dopamine and possibly norepinephrine are.
>
> I cannot take Ritalin or adderall because they kick in my addiction. I flushed the adderall after beginning to "stray" from the recommended dose.
>
> I thought I had found the answer (on this site) in Parnate. However, I noticed it has properties akin to methamphetamine and I cannot take anything with strong abuse potential. Do Parnate and the other MAOI-B inhibitors have histories of abuse?
>
> What do dopamine deficient alcoholics and addicts take?
>
> Thanks!Actually with your history (except for the ADD dx) there is probably more of a chance your dopamine levels are pretty high. Its pretty well known that those who are low in dopamine tend not to be "high risk takers." There have been studies done in people with Parkinsons disease. The problem in Parkinsons is too low dopamine levels. And one of the things researchers have found is that people who develop Parkinsons tend to be people who are more conservative in personality. People who develop Parkinsons tend to never have been substance abusers, do not tend to be smokers, do not tend to be gamblers and do not tend to have engaged in "bungee jumping" behavior in their pre-parkinsons life. People with naturally low dopamine levels tend to have more conservative, law abiding type personalities.
Another "precursor" sign of impending Parkinsons in later life is a longstanding, treatment resistant depression. Depression is very common in Parkinsons and many times predates the actual development of the Parkinsons disease.
People who smoke, drink large amounts of coffee, abuse recreational drugs and alcohol and engage in high risk sex a lot rarely develop Parkinsons.
The only way to know for sure would be to have a SPECT or PET scan of your brain at a functional neuroimaging lab.
BTW, traditional psychiatry tends to have a high percentage of misdiagnosis.
Old School
Posted by JohnX2 on February 22, 2002, at 19:47:31
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
Hi,Have you considered the possibility that you may
be bipolar? You have a lot of "hypomania" symptoms.
It is common for bipolars to be adrenaline
junkies as they easily can get a strong dopamine kick.
Also they are easily attracted to speed. Adults addicted
to dopaminergic substances by default will exhibit ADD symptoms.
Its possible the ADD symptoms dissapear with the removal
of all stimulants. You may do well to take a mood stabilizer.
Also, ADD symptoms are often confused with hypomania in
bipolar II (a mild form of bipolar where the mania is
sneaky to diagnose). I could be wrong, but just some things to chew on.Best Regards,
John> Just recently I have realized there is a good possibility I do not produce enough dopamine. This is after years of knowing that something was not quite right with me biochemically. Factors that influenced this decision:
> 1. I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict (speed)
> 2. Diagnosed with ADD.
> 3. Abuse coffee
> 4. Smoke cigarrettes
> 5. Familiar tremor (also my mom and my 13 year old son)
> 6. Adrenaline-junkie (esp. as kid)
> 7. Use sex as a mood elevator
>
>
> The only "natural" thing that makes me feel normal or good is excessive exercise. However, I cannot run five miles a day. Otherwise, I am sleepy, lethargic, and exist in a mental fog. These traits are exacerbated when I have tried SSRIs (paxil, zoloft, effexor). Serzone obliterated my short-term memory. Not surprisingly, wellbutrin has worked somewhat.
>
> Serotonin doesn't seem to be the problem but I feel strongly that dopamine and possibly norepinephrine are.
>
> I cannot take Ritalin or adderall because they kick in my addiction. I flushed the adderall after beginning to "stray" from the recommended dose.
>
> I thought I had found the answer (on this site) in Parnate. However, I noticed it has properties akin to methamphetamine and I cannot take anything with strong abuse potential. Do Parnate and the other MAOI-B inhibitors have histories of abuse?
>
> What do dopamine deficient alcoholics and addicts take?
>
> Thanks!
Posted by Anna Laura on February 22, 2002, at 22:45:57
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
> Just recently I have realized there is a good possibility I do not produce enough dopamine. This is after years of knowing that something was not quite right with me biochemically. Factors that influenced this decision:
> 1. I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict (speed)
> 2. Diagnosed with ADD.
> 3. Abuse coffee
> 4. Smoke cigarrettes
> 5. Familiar tremor (also my mom and my 13 year old son)
> 6. Adrenaline-junkie (esp. as kid)
> 7. Use sex as a mood elevator
>
>
> The only "natural" thing that makes me feel normal or good is excessive exercise. However, I cannot run five miles a day. Otherwise, I am sleepy, lethargic, and exist in a mental fog. These traits are exacerbated when I have tried SSRIs (paxil, zoloft, effexor). Serzone obliterated my short-term memory. Not surprisingly, wellbutrin has worked somewhat.
>
> Serotonin doesn't seem to be the problem but I feel strongly that dopamine and possibly norepinephrine are.
>
> I cannot take Ritalin or adderall because they kick in my addiction. I flushed the adderall after beginning to "stray" from the recommended dose.
>
> I thought I had found the answer (on this site) in Parnate. However, I noticed it has properties akin to methamphetamine and I cannot take anything with strong abuse potential. Do Parnate and the other MAOI-B inhibitors have histories of abuse?
>
> What do dopamine deficient alcoholics and addicts take?
>
> Thanks!Hi Lula,
Slightly and moderately low dopamine levels in certain areas of the brain are associated with risk-taking personality, novelty-seeking behaviour, ADD, and drug abuse:http://www.fed.qut.edu.au/addiss/News/News12.htm
Severely low dopamine levels produce the "syndrome" describe by Old School and possibly make people more prone to Parkinson. Anyway, this is still a controversial issue.
I don't know what you should be taking if you're prone to addiction. Atypical antypsichotic such as Amisulpride or Risperdal might do the trick as they seem to raise dopamine levels at low doses. Be careful about that too, as they seem to raise prolactin levels in women which might worsen your depression if you come out to be highly sensitive to this hormone (it's my case, as a matter of fact, i can't take the pill also). You shouldn't take atypical AP if you are prone to tumours and that sort of things: you might wnat to talk about that with your pdoc.
For what dopaminergic drugs and abuse potential are concerned, i can do some more research and find out more info about that.
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2002, at 2:12:51
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
Possibly try adding Edronax (reboxetine). It is nonadrenergic. The tremor can be controlled with Inderal. Dopaminergic symptoms are more like psychomotor slowing, lack of sex drive, etc...
Jimmy
Posted by Geezer on February 23, 2002, at 11:10:30
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
Good thread!
Hi lula,
Your post made me think about some things retrospectively. I have no advice but would like comments for self-education.
1) Recovering alcoholic/addict (same & Valium, clean since 1985)
2) DXed with ADD (don't think I have that)
3) Abuse coffee (yes but quit after detox. from speed-insomnia & too wired)
4) Smoke cigs. (yes 2 packs/day for 38 yrs. quit June 2001, caused my current depression).
5) Familial Tremor (not me but my mother has EPS from Trilofon - yours does sound genetic)
6) Adrenaline-junkie (I used to think this too - now think it was running to release endorphins + norep. to feed hypomania....OR ease depression ? which cam first chicken or the egg)
7) Use sex as a mood elevator (this was very important to me when younger - I know see it as typical symptom of hypomania, IMHO the drug abuse is too)Agree with your natural running theory but not possible for me-due to mild COPD (Emphazima?SP). Agree with SSRI results - worthless for me. Dopemine & norep. meds may be the answer but they are difficult to get. You can get some norep. effect with "Side-Effexor" and Remeron if you can stand the serotonin pain and horror (I am currently taking Remeron 30mg. - had one day improvement at 15mg. after 5 days, pdoc raised to 30mg and I have been in hell for the past 10 days will report in one week).
Know about flushing the meds. when you "stray" from recommended dose. I have been terrified since 1985 and done the same.
MAOIs maybe the answer but I have spent many years trying to find out. I am going to look into abuse potential (can't ask the pdoc she is a master at circumventing any direct question suggesting human intelligence).
"What do dopamine deficient alcoholics and addicts take"? So far.....the same thing everyone else takes!
Old School had a good comment: "BTW traditional psyc. tends to have a high percentage of misdiagnosis". How sweet it is to be 57 years old (treated for 30 years with AD monotherpy) then DXed and treated for Bipolar II for the past 9 mos.
Its a very difficult road. The only hope seems to be education (through your own research) then you have to DEAL with the psychiatrists - they are rolling the dice just like we are!
Geezer
Posted by christophrejmc on February 23, 2002, at 13:17:18
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
There have been a few case reports of Parnate abuse (although it's quite rare). I have never heard of anyone abusing Nardil or Marplan. Deprenyl (selegiline) metabolises to l-amphetamine and l-methampetamine, which don't have as much potential for abuse as their dextro racemates (I believe they have more effect on norepinephrine than dopamine); still, considering your history, you might want to stay away from selegiline.
-chris
Posted by Ponder on February 23, 2002, at 16:12:02
In reply to MAOI abuse potential, posted by christophrejmc on February 23, 2002, at 13:17:18
I, too, have found exercise to be incredibly helpful, but have nearly worn out my knees from what my doctor says is overuse. I don't run, just walk. I wear braces on both knees and take anti-inflammatory drugs, but still ache for 24 hours or more after even a 2-mile walk. Now I'm really feeling sorry for myself. Can't afford exercise equipment or even the YMCA (living on disability). Any suggestions?
Posted by susan C on February 23, 2002, at 19:48:33
In reply to Exercise Suggestions?, posted by Ponder on February 23, 2002, at 16:12:02
I too have this challenge and try to take 250mg a day of a suppliment glucosamine sulphate. It was orginially recommended for joints/ligamints...by my gp doctor, others have now seconded it and is least expensive. It is more expensive when combined with condrotin.
mouse on the vitamin aisle
Posted by lula on February 24, 2002, at 7:57:16
In reply to Re: dope-amine dilemma, posted by Geezer on February 23, 2002, at 11:10:30
Really appreciate your post, geezer. I have one question/comment. I am taking Effexor (150mg) along with 300 mg Wellbutrin but I am sleepy all of the time. Not a problem I have with wellbutrin by itself. I am going to see the doc tomorrow and I was planning on suggesting that I begin to wean myself off of it and stay with the Wellbutrin (I don't smoke when I take it)and suggest that we look into MAOIs when I finish my dissertation (in about 2 months). At what dosage does effexor impact norepinephrine levels? I know it doesn't touch depression until 225mg.
Once again, thanks for your help!
Posted by Geezer on February 24, 2002, at 10:28:08
In reply to What a geezer! » Geezer, posted by lula on February 24, 2002, at 7:57:16
> Really appreciate your post, geezer. I have one question/comment. I am taking Effexor (150mg) along with 300 mg Wellbutrin but I am sleepy all of the time. Not a problem I have with wellbutrin by itself. I am going to see the doc tomorrow and I was planning on suggesting that I begin to wean myself off of it and stay with the Wellbutrin (I don't smoke when I take it)and suggest that we look into MAOIs when I finish my dissertation (in about 2 months). At what dosage does effexor impact norepinephrine levels? I know it doesn't touch depression until 225mg.
> Once again, thanks for your help!Hi lula,
Can't answer the question about effexor "scientifically" but I would think you would have to go to at least 225mg. to get any norep. benefit. Effexor is way over balanced on the side of serotonin and this could explain why people have such problems with "Side-Effexor Withdrawal" = serotonin withdrawal. People complain about problems they have when missing doses of Effezor, in my opinion, this is nothing more than serotonin withdrawal due to the short Effexor half life. Solution - get some prozac tabs. 10mg. begin titrating Effexor down, when you begin to feel poorly add 1 Prozac 10mg in AM.
Leave your Wellbutrin constant, continue down titration of Effezor until you are off. If you feel the need decrease the Prozac to 5mg./day for a week then stop the Prozac - no withdrawal due to Prozac long half life.NOW, you are on 300mg. of Wellbutrin. Next suggestion - find out for REAL if you are Bipolar or not. The Wellbutrin is IMHO the best AD for you at this point BUT a differential DX of BIPOLAR + Specifiers adds a whole new concept to your future. It has been said on this board we are "only treating symptoms". I respectfully disagree - I have spent 30 years treating symptoms, maybe you won't have to do the same.
Another opinion. This heavy emphasis on serotonin is due to the AMERICAN MODEL for treating depression - in Europe you would have a better shot at Norep. and Dopamine.
Would love to know the topic of your dissertation!
Please undertake your treatment changes with your pdocs approval.
Best regards
Geezer
Posted by Jason911 on February 24, 2002, at 19:11:32
In reply to Re: dope-amine dilemma, posted by OldSchool on February 22, 2002, at 16:11:33
This should be a definate answer to your problems. Your symptoms are similar to mine. You can get selegiline with a script from a doctor under the name Eldepryl, but it's much cheaper to get it overseas (and the brand name is Jumex). xxx is a good source. $47 can get you 3 months worth of medicine. You should take 5mg/day. At this dose (and even 10mg, but it's not necessary) it acts as an MAO-B inhibiter and therefore increases dopamine levels and PEA levels. It has many benefits that you should check out. Go to xxx to find out all the benefits. But the main goal here is that it will get you motivated and feeling good about yourself and protect your brain (and is possibly life-extending). It's worth a look. Tell me what you think! Jumex. I think that is what will help you. BTW, smokers have 40% less MAO-B in their brains than non-smokers! This is why you feel better while smoking. Jumex will be great for you. Also ask your doctor about Zyban to help you cut your habit real fast. Jumex will do it but if you want to quit right away bupropion (Zyban,Wellbutrin) will help you quit much quicker! I really believe your solution is low-dose deprenyl. Let me know what you want to do. I hope this helps. God bless.. -Jason911
Posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 22:57:01
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
What about Wellbutrin? The only dopaminergic AD. . .tho if you get Effexor up to higher levels, it's dopaminergic & nor. . whatever.
Lots of ADD in my family, same dopamine problems. Must you stay away from all stims? I get no high from Dex SR.
Eating very low carbs. . .some have been posting here about tyrosine and other amino acids, which I thought didn't cross the blood-brain barrier but what do I know. .
I have been in your shoes, *having* to run for any relief at all is horrible. ADD is often comorbid with bipolar II and temporal lobe seizures; I've got all three.
Good luck,
Zo
Posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 23:32:49
In reply to TRY SELEGILINE!! (Jumex), posted by Jason911 on February 24, 2002, at 19:11:32
The vast majority of people with depression
will require a 60 mg/day dose of selegiline
for depressive relief. This is documented in
the clinical studies. Also there is the default
2-4 week lag time to feel a solid consistent
relief from the MAOI inhibition. You need to follow the strict
MAOI tyramine diet at those levels.Results at 5 mg/day may be very atypical and
fall well outside the bell shaped curve, but you
could give it a shot.I am bipolar II and have sympoms similar to Lula.
My personal thought is that Lula may want to investigate
mood stabilizer augmentation to an antidepressant
to remove the excessive dopamine craving consistent
with hypomanic behavior. But I am not a trained
physician, I am just speaking from personal experience.
Wellbutrin is an excellent AD medicine that the
psychiatrists like for bipolars with ADD like sympoms
and it goes well with mood stabilizers.Anyways, I hope Lula can use the interesting posts
put forth hear on pbabble to help take the right measures
to improve the quality of her life.Regards,
John
Posted by djmmm on February 25, 2002, at 0:03:15
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
forgive me for being flippant...
It seems like you are still struggling with your addiction, and adding "Wellbutrin" or "Maois" or any of the other suggestions the babblers have given you will not solve your problem(s)
if it's not drugs, it's sex, if it's not sex, it's exercise, or coffee, or cigarrettes.. it's very simple; You are still juggling one high for another.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2002, at 8:29:48
In reply to TRY SELEGILINE!! (Jumex), posted by Jason911 on February 24, 2002, at 19:11:32
> xxx is a good source... Go to xxx to find out all the benefits.
Please don't use this site to exchange information on how to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Rocket_Boy on February 25, 2002, at 9:21:32
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
> Just recently I have realized there is a good possibility I do not produce enough dopamine. This is after years of knowing that something was not quite right with me biochemically. Factors that influenced this decision:
> 1. I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict (speed)
> 2. Diagnosed with ADD.
> 3. Abuse coffee
> 4. Smoke cigarrettes
> 5. Familiar tremor (also my mom and my 13 year old son)
> 6. Adrenaline-junkie (esp. as kid)
> 7. Use sex as a mood elevator
>
>
> The only "natural" thing that makes me feel normal or good is excessive exercise. However, I cannot run five miles a day. Otherwise, I am sleepy, lethargic, and exist in a mental fog. These traits are exacerbated when I have tried SSRIs (paxil, zoloft, effexor). Serzone obliterated my short-term memory. Not surprisingly, wellbutrin has worked somewhat.
>
> Serotonin doesn't seem to be the problem but I feel strongly that dopamine and possibly norepinephrine are.
>
> I cannot take Ritalin or adderall because they kick in my addiction. I flushed the adderall after beginning to "stray" from the recommended dose.
>
> I thought I had found the answer (on this site) in Parnate. However, I noticed it has properties akin to methamphetamine and I cannot take anything with strong abuse potential. Do Parnate and the other MAOI-B inhibitors have histories of abuse?
>
> What do dopamine deficient alcoholics and addicts take?
>
> Thanks!Hi Lula,
I dont know much about the addiction stuff but I have the same problem with Serotonin based drugs, they are useless to me and just make me sleepy. I had to quit taking the Effexor due to this. I am going to try "Adrafanil" that I have heard such
good feedback from on here. I would think that this is what exercise boosts the most would be adrenaline? Exercise helps me a bunch to like I'm sure it does everyone. I waiting for it to get here and I'll let everyone know how it worked for me.
I have never heard of parnate myself, but my main problem is getting up in the morning, lack of motivation, general feeling of I dont care attitude. I felt everything click once when taking WB and Effexor and doing a good weight lifting workout
one night then couldnt sleep for 3 days (which was great for me!) but hence could never get the same effect back. I figure mine is a low NE thing.Good luck,
Allen
Posted by Geezer on February 25, 2002, at 10:04:00
In reply to Re: dope-amine dilemma, posted by djmmm on February 25, 2002, at 0:03:15
> forgive me for being flippant...
>
> It seems like you are still struggling with your addiction, and adding "Wellbutrin" or "Maois" or any of the other suggestions the babblers have given you will not solve your problem(s)
>
> if it's not drugs, it's sex, if it's not sex, it's exercise, or coffee, or cigarrettes.. it's very simple; You are still juggling one high for another.Pbabblers,
"Cut Bait" on this one".
Geezer
Posted by Rocket_Boy on February 25, 2002, at 11:57:57
In reply to TRY SELEGILINE!! (Jumex), posted by Jason911 on February 24, 2002, at 19:11:32
> This should be a definate answer to your problems. Your symptoms are similar to mine. You can get selegiline with a script from a doctor under the name Eldepryl, but it's much cheaper to get it overseas (and the brand name is Jumex). xxx is a good source. $47 can get you 3 months worth of medicine. You should take 5mg/day. At this dose (and even 10mg, but it's not necessary) it acts as an MAO-B inhibiter and therefore increases dopamine levels and PEA levels. It has many benefits that you should check out. Go to xxx to find out all the benefits. But the main goal here is that it will get you motivated and feeling good about yourself and protect your brain (and is possibly life-extending). It's worth a look. Tell me what you think! Jumex. I think that is what will help you. BTW, smokers have 40% less MAO-B in their brains than non-smokers! This is why you feel better while smoking. Jumex will be great for you. Also ask your doctor about Zyban to help you cut your habit real fast. Jumex will do it but if you want to quit right away bupropion (Zyban,Wellbutrin) will help you quit much quicker! I really believe your solution is low-dose deprenyl. Let me know what you want to do. I hope this helps. God bless.. -Jason911
Well, I for one was all built up after reading about selegeline and all and tried it and got no benefit whatsoever in the lower doeses of 5mg a day. I agree with what someone else posted about the studies showing it
doesnt have any depression benefit except at higher doses. I did get anything from it anyway. Just my experience. I think it's just another "smart-drugs" hype, and I fell for it. Hope it works for you though.Allen
Posted by Jason911 on February 25, 2002, at 12:59:30
In reply to Re: TRY SELEGILINE!! (Jumex), posted by Rocket_Boy on February 25, 2002, at 11:57:57
Did you find it sexuallly stimulating? Or was your sex drive no problem anyway? -Jason911
>
>
> Well, I for one was all built up after reading about selegeline and all and tried it and got no benefit whatsoever in the lower doeses of 5mg a day. I agree with what someone else posted about the studies showing it
> doesnt have any depression benefit except at higher doses. I did get anything from it anyway. Just my experience. I think it's just another "smart-drugs" hype, and I fell for it. Hope it works for you though.
>
> Allen
Posted by Rocket_Boy on February 25, 2002, at 18:35:44
In reply to Hey Allen! » Rocket_Boy, posted by Jason911 on February 25, 2002, at 12:59:30
Jason,
I dont have a problem with that, but I really didnt feel any difference from it at all. Sucks because now I have all this leftover, as well as some vinpocetine and lucidril. Havent tried my Piracetam yet. Waiting until I go skiing.
I was really convinced it was going to work after reading all the studies and Michael Colgan's book "Hormonal Health". I'm sticking with only major pharmaceuticals from now on. :)Allen
> Did you find it sexuallly stimulating? Or was your sex drive no problem anyway? -Jason911
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Well, I for one was all built up after reading about selegeline and all and tried it and got no benefit whatsoever in the lower doeses of 5mg a day. I agree with what someone else posted about the studies showing it
> > doesnt have any depression benefit except at higher doses. I did get anything from it anyway. Just my experience. I think it's just another "smart-drugs" hype, and I fell for it. Hope it works for you though.
> >
> > Allen
Posted by Maria Warren on February 26, 2002, at 12:46:49
In reply to Re: Hey Allen!, posted by Rocket_Boy on February 25, 2002, at 18:35:44
What with all of the questions about telling the difference between Bipolar II and ADHD may I slip in here that in my case at least, there was never much question. Even though it has been close to twenty years now there was one thing that left not much doubt -- I drink coffee to relax!! Did then --do now! Maria
Posted by polarbear206 on February 28, 2002, at 18:17:10
In reply to dope-amine dilemma, posted by lula on February 22, 2002, at 14:31:00
> Just recently I have realized there is a good possibility I do not produce enough dopamine. This is after years of knowing that something was not quite right with me biochemically. Factors that influenced this decision:
> 1. I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict (speed)
> 2. Diagnosed with ADD.
> 3. Abuse coffee
> 4. Smoke cigarrettes
> 5. Familiar tremor (also my mom and my 13 year old son)
> 6. Adrenaline-junkie (esp. as kid)
> 7. Use sex as a mood elevator
>
>
> The only "natural" thing that makes me feel normal or good is excessive exercise. However, I cannot run five miles a day. Otherwise, I am sleepy, lethargic, and exist in a mental fog. These traits are exacerbated when I have tried SSRIs (paxil, zoloft, effexor). Serzone obliterated my short-term memory. Not surprisingly, wellbutrin has worked somewhat.
>
> Serotonin doesn't seem to be the problem but I feel strongly that dopamine and possibly norepinephrine are.
>
> I cannot take Ritalin or adderall because they kick in my addiction. I flushed the adderall after beginning to "stray" from the recommended dose.
>
> I thought I had found the answer (on this site) in Parnate. However, I noticed it has properties akin to methamphetamine and I cannot take anything with strong abuse potential. Do Parnate and the other MAOI-B inhibitors have histories of abuse?
>
> What do dopamine deficient alcoholics and addicts take?
>
lula, I'm glad I saw your post!! I have some of the same problems you do. You need norepinephrine I had the same problems on the ssri's. My psych doc only will put me on a MAOI as a last resort. The best drug that has worked for me are the tricyclics. Yes, the "old faithfuls". I feel more like my old self. I take imipramine. It's very activating and energizing. When I took Paxil I felt lethargic and sluggish. Exercise is a very important part of my lifestyle, but not enough to keep my symptoms at bay. Light therapy would also benifit. This usually requires an activating antidepressant that targets more then one neurotransmitter.
Posted by missliz on June 13, 2002, at 2:33:20
In reply to Exercise Suggestions?, posted by Ponder on February 23, 2002, at 16:12:02
> I, too, have found exercise to be incredibly helpful, but have nearly worn out my knees from what my doctor says is overuse. I don't run, just walk. I wear braces on both knees and take anti-inflammatory drugs, but still ache for 24 hours or more after even a 2-mile walk. Now I'm really feeling sorry for myself. Can't afford exercise equipment or even the YMCA (living on disability). Any suggestions?
I know exactly what you're talking about, and guess what? You don't "wear out " your knees walking. The braces are probably not helping, as I'm betting they're the Ace bandage brand neaprene sleeve thingies. These things are junk and only aggrvate injury in the long run buy not allowing the injury to strenghthen and heal. You need to see a first rate orthopedic guy for evaluation for arthritis, overuse injury, or screwy kneecap stuff. I too am on dis. and went to major teaching hospital where the best orthopod in the state fixed me up for Medicaid money. I had an unusual problem (chondromalacia patella) and needed a five minute surgury with six months of brutal rehab. Total joy for an exercise junkie!
You may just need to go to Physical Therapy and get something strenghthened or imbalances corrected. Yuor gait could be screwed up, or abductors or abs weak, you never know. Go get help from the experts.
I was apretty hard core competitive athlete until I was thirty and fell to peices and the headshrinkers caught me. I found that cycling was the best way too pull myself back together and manage my anxiety, but the last few psydocs don't get it. Fortuneately my medicine doc is a tri guy and does get it- He sent me to the orthopods.
Orthotics can help with knee stuff too- go to a real orthotocist, not a physical therapist. ( Orthotics are shoe inserts that push feet back into mechanical correctness- they can fix problems all the way up to the lower back) Medicaid /Medicare usually pays for this stuff.
One of my knees is fixed and I'm walking about ten miles a week (a lot, considering) and I can't wait to get the other one done and get back on The Bike. Nobody can run every day, but The Bike demands 6 or7 days a week at varying mileages and it doesn't beat you up like running.
Stuff has been so awful for the last two years that the idea that I will start training again by X-mas is the only thing that sustains me.
Have you tried walking on dirt instead of pavement, like at a park? It helps a lot. Also the Y is supposed to have a sliding scale fee for the disabled and low income types (at least thet did). call and ask. You may need to become a swimming junkie. You'd be amazed how many psych people are hanging around the Y.
This is the end of the thread.
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