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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by colin wallace on February 23, 2002, at 16:00:27
I've been mulling over a question recently that's probably occured to some of you in
similar situations too: If my depression has improved to the extent that I can (almost)
function socially as normal, with the aid of medication, does this represent actual
physiological 'repair', or do antidepressants simply mask the problem, ie. I am still
'depressed' underneath, and will need to remain forever on meds. in much the same way
as one might for say, high blood pressure or diabetes.If I am(and I know I am)inherantly
depressive, even though I'm sustained by medication, does the underlying biochemical fault lurk
forever threatening to overcome me again-or can this imbalance be actually 'cured'?
I was thinking about this, when by accident I received my answer: I'd been utterly treatment-resistant
until I tried sam-e, and then improved quicker than I could ever have have hoped for.
Not remission, but great strides nonetheless.I was taking a small dose of Amitriptyline
to get to sleep, and then decided to increase to a therapeutic dose:perhaps that will
finally get me there, I thought.At this modest dose (75mg) I first noticed an adverse reactio to exercise
I did not get with the sam-e alone.Itlasted days.My big mistake came when, realizing an
adverse interplay was at fault, I decided to give the Amitriptyline a chance by itself.
I upped the dose to 100mg and put the sam-e on the back burner for a few months(so I thought).
My family noticed the decline before I did- I began to get irritable again, and those
gloomy thoughts slowly began to intrude...slowly at first, but daily I worsened- still,give it a
fair chance to work I told myself.Hang in there.A week later I was eating a meal with my
family in a state of suicidal despair. I felt completely disconnected, as though I wasnt
really present in my body. My hands weren't mine. My head throbbed with that sickening
depression that I'd put to the back of my mind.Quite simply, I didnt want to live, and mustered
the resolve to go to a psych. hospital(more for the sake of my parents.)
I went to bed, and as an after thought, took a 200mg sam-e pill from a strip beside the bed.
The following day, I took 400mg, and rang to make the doctor's appointment.The next day, I cancelled it.
The reason being (I find it hard to comprehend this myself)I'd almost completely recovered to my
pre-amitriptyline state: I could speak (if you've been so depressed that you cant even speak,
you dont take this for granted)and I could even laugh -albeit cynically.
So, that was last week, and last night I was throwing beer down my neck and generally having
a fairly good time out on the town.My brother couldn't believe it, and I just thank my lucky
stars that something actually exists that could achieve that transformation.I'm still unwell of course
, I get stressed easily, I'm anxious, and not at all well enough to return to work.
But I'm far from suicidal.Anyway, my point I suppose is that, underneath it all, and without
my lifesaving pills(whatever they really do) I'm still as depressed as ever-physiologically.
And my question is, what does such a rapid response to this med. mean? Should I care,
as long as it works?
Is there perhaps an antidepressant out there that works on similar pathways that I can use
to supplement my supplement?!I hope so, and I'll keep looking.But meanwhile, I must remind myself to be
grateful for the gains I've made I suppose.And the depression itself-well of course, I dont need any more reminders that it will probably always be there.
Posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 1:06:00
In reply to Up and down and up again..., posted by colin wallace on February 23, 2002, at 16:00:27
Hi,What is your sam-e experience like.
I was thinking about taking this as a supplement.
Its supposed to be a good liver detoxifier as
well as an antidepressant and also an anti-inflammitory.
Do you get weird dreams on sam-e (like increased
serotonin)?thanks,
John> I've been mulling over a question recently that's probably occured to some of you in
> similar situations too: If my depression has improved to the extent that I can (almost)
> function socially as normal, with the aid of medication, does this represent actual
> physiological 'repair', or do antidepressants simply mask the problem, ie. I am still
> 'depressed' underneath, and will need to remain forever on meds. in much the same way
> as one might for say, high blood pressure or diabetes.If I am(and I know I am)inherantly
> depressive, even though I'm sustained by medication, does the underlying biochemical fault lurk
> forever threatening to overcome me again-or can this imbalance be actually 'cured'?
> I was thinking about this, when by accident I received my answer: I'd been utterly treatment-resistant
> until I tried sam-e, and then improved quicker than I could ever have have hoped for.
> Not remission, but great strides nonetheless.I was taking a small dose of Amitriptyline
> to get to sleep, and then decided to increase to a therapeutic dose:perhaps that will
> finally get me there, I thought.At this modest dose (75mg) I first noticed an adverse reactio to exercise
> I did not get with the sam-e alone.Itlasted days.My big mistake came when, realizing an
> adverse interplay was at fault, I decided to give the Amitriptyline a chance by itself.
> I upped the dose to 100mg and put the sam-e on the back burner for a few months(so I thought).
> My family noticed the decline before I did- I began to get irritable again, and those
> gloomy thoughts slowly began to intrude...slowly at first, but daily I worsened- still,give it a
> fair chance to work I told myself.Hang in there.A week later I was eating a meal with my
> family in a state of suicidal despair. I felt completely disconnected, as though I wasnt
> really present in my body. My hands weren't mine. My head throbbed with that sickening
> depression that I'd put to the back of my mind.Quite simply, I didnt want to live, and mustered
> the resolve to go to a psych. hospital(more for the sake of my parents.)
> I went to bed, and as an after thought, took a 200mg sam-e pill from a strip beside the bed.
> The following day, I took 400mg, and rang to make the doctor's appointment.The next day, I cancelled it.
> The reason being (I find it hard to comprehend this myself)I'd almost completely recovered to my
> pre-amitriptyline state: I could speak (if you've been so depressed that you cant even speak,
> you dont take this for granted)and I could even laugh -albeit cynically.
> So, that was last week, and last night I was throwing beer down my neck and generally having
> a fairly good time out on the town.My brother couldn't believe it, and I just thank my lucky
> stars that something actually exists that could achieve that transformation.I'm still unwell of course
> , I get stressed easily, I'm anxious, and not at all well enough to return to work.
> But I'm far from suicidal.Anyway, my point I suppose is that, underneath it all, and without
> my lifesaving pills(whatever they really do) I'm still as depressed as ever-physiologically.
> And my question is, what does such a rapid response to this med. mean? Should I care,
> as long as it works?
> Is there perhaps an antidepressant out there that works on similar pathways that I can use
> to supplement my supplement?!I hope so, and I'll keep looking.But meanwhile, I must remind myself to be
> grateful for the gains I've made I suppose.And the depression itself-well of course, I dont need any more reminders that it will probably always be there.
Posted by colin wallace on February 24, 2002, at 7:57:02
In reply to Re: Up and down and up again... » colin wallace, posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 1:06:00
Re: the sam-e effects:
I find it mildly stimulating, a little like prozac, but not nearly so 'mind altering'
(prozac made me restless and angry). I believe it must also influence noradrenaline, because most people, myself included, feel an increase in alertness and energy.I've not heard of it having any effect on dreaming, although it definitely can keep you awake at night if you take it too late in the day.I first used it whilst withdrawing from effexor, and I personally think that the effects are less noticable if you switch from such a powerful antidepressant- it takes a good while to re-adjust to a less potent med.
That said, nowadays I feel its effects within an hour or so of taking it.As for the anti-inflammatory properties, I have some arthritis, and it helps with stiffness/mobility far better than glucosamine ever did- in my own experience at least.
This is the end of the thread.
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