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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
Hi,
I've taken sam-e for a year now and I believe it has treated my depression.
But... I'm having some other health problems (chronic vaginal infections and attendant pain) that coincided exactly with my switch from prozac to sam-e. Probably a coincidence, but I can't help but wonder... Anyone heard anything about sam-e depressing immune function?
I also think the sam-e is pooping out for me. I'm perplexed becasue every sam-e report I've heard has been so overwhelmingly favorable.
Any info would be appreciated.
Lia
Posted by TSA West on February 23, 2002, at 17:44:02
In reply to downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy
Volume 57(2); 15 January 2000
SAMe: S-Adenosylmethionine"Toxicological studies in animals indicate that S-adenosylmethionine is nontoxic at relatively high dosages. It does not produce changes in the brain waves recorded on electroencephalograms and does not lower the seizure threshold. In addition, it does not have cardiac, anticholinergic, or orthostatic effects."
Posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 0:58:36
In reply to downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
Lia,
How long did it take sam-e to work and
what dosage do you take? Have the prices come
down? when I looked into 2 yrs ago it was big money.Thanks
John
> Hi,
>
> I've taken sam-e for a year now and I believe it has treated my depression.
>
> But... I'm having some other health problems (chronic vaginal infections and attendant pain) that coincided exactly with my switch from prozac to sam-e. Probably a coincidence, but I can't help but wonder... Anyone heard anything about sam-e depressing immune function?
>
> I also think the sam-e is pooping out for me. I'm perplexed becasue every sam-e report I've heard has been so overwhelmingly favorable.
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Lia
Posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 1:19:07
In reply to downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
I thought sam-e helped with inflammitory disorders (like arthritis)?
I know that the immune system is tightly linked into
depression. Generally depressives have higher than normal
levels of circulating corticosteroids. So maybe the sam-e
poop-out of depression is also correlating to poop-out
in the immune system.BTW, when the sam-e works, do you get weird dreams
kind of like what increased sertonin would do?-John
> Hi,
>
> I've taken sam-e for a year now and I believe it has treated my depression.
>
> But... I'm having some other health problems (chronic vaginal infections and attendant pain) that coincided exactly with my switch from prozac to sam-e. Probably a coincidence, but I can't help but wonder... Anyone heard anything about sam-e depressing immune function?
>
> I also think the sam-e is pooping out for me. I'm perplexed becasue every sam-e report I've heard has been so overwhelmingly favorable.
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Lia
Posted by Lia Mason on February 24, 2002, at 14:05:05
In reply to Re: downside to sam-e? » Lia Mason, posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 1:19:07
Hi,
It took 1200 of sam-e to get an antidepressant response for me. That's higher than the package insert and higher than Richard Brown's book suggests, but.. my dr says that the studies that showed sam-e to be effective in depression actually used 1000-1600 doses.
It is expensive, but... CVS (I live in New England) has Nature Made on sale for 50% off just about once a month. So I stock up. I honestly haven't paid full price since I started taking it. I keep waiting for CVS to get wise, but... they haven't. Lucky me.
No weird dreams and no side effects. People talk about feeling speeded up, but my depression is of the heavy sleepy variety. Nothing speeds me up.
A note on the cost issue... I had a dr tell me that many of his patients do a sam-e combo--with an SSRI or effexor. The idea, i think, is to economize on sam-e and bypass the side effects of the SSRI/effexor by keeping the dose low. I'm about to try this becasue I need an antidepressant boost and effexor works great for me, but too many side effects.
Hope this helps.
Lia
Posted by colin wallace on February 24, 2002, at 16:27:37
In reply to Re: downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 24, 2002, at 14:05:05
Hi Lia,
I seem to be in a similar situation to you in that I get a good (but insufficient)response to Sam-e. I get that speeded up feeling you mention, at only 400mg- at your sort of dosages I'd be midnight marathon running.
Do you have a med. in mind to complement your Sam ? Effexor tended to work for me too, at only 75mg, but alas it also caused insomnia/aggression- bedtime anger, which was no fun, snarling at a pillow! I'm thinking maybeI'll add a low dose of wellbutrin or reboxetine, although I've no experience of either.Be interested to hear what you try next, as my doc. has never heard of sam-e....also, does your supplier ship overseas (uk)?
Good luckCol.
Posted by JohnX2 on February 24, 2002, at 17:47:09
In reply to Re: downside to sam-eLia, posted by colin wallace on February 24, 2002, at 16:27:37
Col,
Have you considered augmenting your Effexor
with some Serzone? I think this would do a decent job
of quelling insomnia and agitation. Cognition may
be a downside. But Serzone is EXCELLENT for sleep
and general irritability. Probably boost the Effexor
AD experience too.People have had good luck with Wellbutrin to help
with anergic depression. It can go either way in regards
to anxiety. I felt less anxious and more energetic.
I would definately try Wellbutrin before Reboxetine. The
number of Wellbutrin success stories blow away the number
of Rebox success stories.Regards,
John
> Hi Lia,
>
> I seem to be in a similar situation to you in that I get a good (but insufficient)response to Sam-e. I get that speeded up feeling you mention, at only 400mg- at your sort of dosages I'd be midnight marathon running.
> Do you have a med. in mind to complement your Sam ? Effexor tended to work for me too, at only 75mg, but alas it also caused insomnia/aggression- bedtime anger, which was no fun, snarling at a pillow! I'm thinking maybeI'll add a low dose of wellbutrin or reboxetine, although I've no experience of either.Be interested to hear what you try next, as my doc. has never heard of sam-e....also, does your supplier ship overseas (uk)?
>
> Good luck
>
> Col.
Posted by henryO on February 24, 2002, at 23:44:05
In reply to downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
Sam-e gave me horrendous pimples. I had to stop taking it quick. YIKES
Posted by Bill L on February 25, 2002, at 11:45:19
In reply to downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
Based on a lot of research into SAM-e (including Brown's book), my guess would be that your infections and pain are a coincidence.
One option that you have to increase your dosage above 1200. The maximum recommended amount is 1600 mg.
You may already know this from reading Dr. Brown's book but you should take SAM-e as follows:
1) on empty stomach at least an hour or so before eating2) with 800 units of folate per day and 1,000 units of B12 per day
Posted by verne on February 25, 2002, at 23:34:57
In reply to Re: downside to sam-e?, posted by Bill L on February 25, 2002, at 11:45:19
I've tried several supplements found at health food stores - mostly for depression.
Sam-e, even in low doses, caused nightly irritation, insomnia, tension in the back of the neck and teethgrinding. As bad, or worse, than SSRI's.
Posted by Lia Mason on February 26, 2002, at 12:14:23
In reply to Re: downside to sam-eLia, posted by colin wallace on February 24, 2002, at 16:27:37
Hi Colin,
I get Sam-e at an American chain drug store called CVS. I doubt they ship overseas, but you might check the web.
My doctor said I could safely try Prozac up to 50 and Effexor up tp 75 with sam-e. I'm going to try effexor. For what it's worth, I am in what seems to be a minority with wellbutrin. I had terrible anxiety--that "snarly" feeling you mention--and had to stop it. Only drug that ever did that to me. But... I know tons of people who tolerate it marvelously.
If you haven't read Richard Brown's book STOP DEPRESSION NOW, you should. It seems to be the definitive work on sam-e.
Good Luck,
Lia
Posted by Ron Hill on February 28, 2002, at 3:37:29
In reply to downside to sam-e?, posted by Lia Mason on February 23, 2002, at 16:32:15
Lia,
Make sure you are taking plenty of B-6, B-12, and folate with the SAM-e to prevent the build up of homocysteine (not good). Also bear in mind that most humans do not absorb B-12 efficiently when taken orally. Therefore, it is very important to take a sublingual (under tounge) tablet (or get B-12 injections). Further, buy the bioactive form of B-12 (Methylcobalamin). Here is an article that says it better than I can:
Supercharged SAM-e: B Vitamins, Folate Increase the Supplement’s Effectiveness
by ImmuneSupport.com Staff12-01-1999 - Homocysteine is a sulfur-containing amino acid involved in several important methyl and sulfur transfer reactions, and is actually beneficial in small amounts. When homocysteine levels begin to rise in the body, excessive accumulation of homocysteine in the body fluid compartments is normally prevented by degradation through two enzymatic reactions called transsulfuration and remethylation. These two processes have to be functioning for homocysteine to be kept in control and for SAM-e to function in the body. Importantly, these same enzyme reactions cannot occur without proper levels of folate, vitamin B 6 (pyridoxal 5- phosphate), and vitamin B12 (cobalamin). If you take SAM-e to promote better health (lighter mood, comfortable joints and a detoxed liver), you also need adequate levels of B vitamins and folic acid to help the SAM-e do its job.
When the body has proper levels of folic acid, Vitamins B6 and B12, the enzymatic break-down of homocysteine occurs either through remethylation, which converts it into methionine, the SAM-e building block; or through transsulfuration, which turns it into glutathione, a powerful antioxidant.
But when those processes become sluggish, the homocysteine levels in the body begin to rise. Large homocysteine levels left unchecked in the body, become an invitation to disease, including heart attack, stroke, cancer, birth defects, depression and perhaps CFS and FM.
A published Swedish study showed results of which demonstrate consistently high homocysteine levels and low concentrations of vitamin B12 in the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) of patients meeting established clinical criteria for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia.
Those taking SAM-e should be aware that the healthy benefits they experience are not due to SAM-e alone. SAM-e may be the “team leader” however, folic acid, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12 are crucial members of the team that contribute to its success. It is only by incorporating the entire team that one can achieve the victory of better health and well-being.
Source:
Evarts, Jeremy Lucius. “New Study Links Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome to Low Vitamin B12 and High Homocysteine in Cerebrospinal Fluid.” Healthwatch, August 1998.
Cowley, Geoffrey and Underwood, Anne. "What is SAMe?" Newsweek, July 5, 1999.
Brown, Richard, M.D., Bottigileri, Teodoro, Ph.D., Colman, Carol. Stop Depression Now. New York, 1999.
http://www.arthritissupport.com/track/goto/rtgoto30l.cfm
-- Ron
----------------------------------------------> Hi,
>
> I've taken sam-e for a year now and I believe it has treated my depression.
>
> But... I'm having some other health problems (chronic vaginal infections and attendant pain) that coincided exactly with my switch from prozac to sam-e. Probably a coincidence, but I can't help but wonder... Anyone heard anything about sam-e depressing immune function?
>
> I also think the sam-e is pooping out for me. I'm perplexed becasue every sam-e report I've heard has been so overwhelmingly favorable.
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Lia
This is the end of the thread.
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