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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by snowpony on November 22, 2001, at 4:06:15
I started nardil about 5 years ago. I have had some very interesting side effects that have radically changed some behaviors and thought processes. First I quit smoking using nicoteen gum, that was three years ago and now I am addicted to the gum, I chew 12mg each time and will go through a 48 mg package a day. Second I have become very angery at life, people, etc. to the point I want to cause physical harm to them. the harm I wish and have done has not progressed to a point of committing the harm but only to a few, yet it was in such a way that they did not know I caused it. I am very afraid that some day I may go to far and kill or seriously injure someone. Third, I have become a sort of kleptomaniac, prior to the nardil I committed only a couple of crimes but now I have progressed to the point where I have become a serious theif and I am afraid of getting caught and doing long jail time, yet I feel totally justified that the crimes I commit are ok, and I just can't stop. I went of nardil for 4 months and all of the things I just mentioned went completly away. I became seriously depressed, contempating suicide hourly, I even carried a loaded gun with me along with a bottle of pills and a bottle of rum. My Pdoc put me back on Nardil, the depression left but the other things have come back. My Pdoc has thus far been unable to help me with these things.
I am at a loss as to what to do, stay on nardil or be drepressed and kill my self. If you have any ideas please let me know? If you have had similar probloms let me know how you delt with them. thanks.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 22, 2001, at 16:09:07
In reply to Nardil side effects not pysical, posted by snowpony on November 22, 2001, at 4:06:15
On remeron you will be too sleepy to steal stuff! It sounds like you have too much anxiety & are too intense but you wouldn't be able to take benzodiazepines to calm you down b/c you would abuse them. Maybe remeron combined w/ buspar? Or even a mood stablizer/anti-psychotic? Remeron at 15 mg is the most sedating, remeron at 45mg is the least sedating. Also, taper your nicotine gum chewing down very slowly until you are down to zero in a couple of months. Do not drink caffeine either, that make aggressiveness/anxiety worse & sometimes interferes with antidepressants. & obviously don't drink alcohol b/c that makes you more likely to do dumb stuff that will get you arrested.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 22, 2001, at 16:38:48
In reply to Nardil side effects not pysical, posted by snowpony on November 22, 2001, at 4:06:15
At a mental hospital they can do a SPECT analysis of your brain to tell what exactly is wrong with you & a comprehensive evaluation & then select the appropriate/most effective medications. But you must be honest with the psychiatrist about all of your disturbed thoughts and actions/stealing. You sound like you may have a more serious problem than depression, such as schizophrenia, bipolar etc. (I am not a doctor though).
Posted by cirrus6000 on November 25, 2001, at 13:29:09
In reply to Check into mental hospital for evaluation/help, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 22, 2001, at 16:38:48
> At a mental hospital they can do a SPECT analysis of your brain to tell what exactly is wrong with you & a comprehensive evaluation & then select the appropriate/most effective medications.
listen to what 3 Beer Effect has to say he is an intelligent well grounded individual, he has a clear head on his shoulders and has given me great insight into my problems just as he has yours
Posted by snowpony on November 27, 2001, at 0:13:32
In reply to Nardil side effects not pysical, posted by snowpony on November 22, 2001, at 4:06:15
Thanks for the info on the remeron and the SPECT, I'll check with my pdoc on them.
I would like to add some more background for the reasearchers and any others who maybe experiencing something similar regarding where I am at. Prior to Nardil I had an OK exerience for about 2 years with doxipin and klonopin combination although not with the anger or theiving. It dropped me when my pdoc had me lower the doxipin dose, we raised it but never got the same effect. After some more trials with tricyclics to no avail I began nardil. At the time I had allready been a professional skydiver for 6 years (no I would never do suicide this way I have to much respect for the sport, I also did not kill my self this time due to the respect I have for my wife and 1 year old boy, athough the thoughts and near actions were close I could not follow through, unlike pre skydiving and marriage in which there were failed attempts.) I got married 2 years after good time on nardil/klonpin combo. This put a slow down then later no skydiving (could't afford it any more). It was at this time the anger feelings and the theiving began. I realize that some of the probloms are situational and that I must deal with them on a different level than I do with the genetic predisposition for depression/anxiety I got from my fathers side of the family (my sister also is being treated). Last year while working with my pdoc dealing with the situations afore mentioned. Then changed the meds to nardil/xanex combo. I still had the probloms but not so severe. Then suddenly my pharmasist said nardil was no longer available, he called around (the L.A. area and found none) so I had to quit cold turkey. I went down hill fast. We tried some SSRIs that only made me feel like I had the flu, they did not work. During the 4 for months off the nardil the anger, theivery,and nicorette stopped completely, but I was unable to function at all. My pdoc decided to try finding out full details on nardil availability, we found that the manufactuer back order it but was still producing it. I started back on it and after 4+ weeks it began to start working again. Some of the same previously mentioned probloms started up again but not as severe. So that is where I am now.If you have had similar experiences please let me know how you delt with them, thanks.
Posted by SLS on November 27, 2001, at 13:02:09
In reply to Check into mental hospital for evaluation/help, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 22, 2001, at 16:38:48
> At a mental hospital they can do a SPECT analysis of your brain to tell what exactly is wrong with you & a comprehensive evaluation & then select the appropriate/most effective medications. But you must be honest with the psychiatrist about all of your disturbed thoughts and actions/stealing. You sound like you may have a more serious problem than depression, such as schizophrenia, bipolar etc. (I am not a doctor though).
Hi 3 Beer Effect.I didn't know that anyone used SPECT clinically. Which hospitals offer it? Do you know any psychiatrists who use it to treat patients? Do you know what sorts of abnormalities are seen in a SPECT image and how the information is used? Where can I find more information?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 27, 2001, at 14:59:02
In reply to Re: Check into mental hospital for evaluation/help » 3 Beer Effect, posted by SLS on November 27, 2001, at 13:02:09
Scott, there is a book that tells all about it called, Change Your Brain, Change Your Life (the breakthrough program for conquering anxiety, depression, obsessiveness, anger, & impulsiveness) by Daniel G. Amen, M.D. that explains what this SPECT analysis is and what it is used for. It says that this book is a NY Times Bestseller so you should be able to find it at Barnes & Noble in the psychology/self-help/medical reference/illnesses section or at Amazon.com. This book is $15.00 US. I don't think most psychiatrists use it that often because the test costs around $1,500 so the insurance companies would have a fit if they used SPECT often. I think a psychiatrist has to write an order for one & then you go to a hospital to get it done (I would think that the hospitals most likely to have it are University teaching hospitals since they usually get the latest technological advances first). Supposedly, the analysis can judge which parts of your brain are electrically over or under active and then the psychiatrist can make a more accurate diagnosis of what is wrong with you.
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> Hi 3 Beer Effect.
>
> I didn't know that anyone used SPECT clinically. Which hospitals offer it? Do you know any psychiatrists who use it to treat patients? Do you know what sorts of abnormalities are seen in a SPECT image and how the information is used? Where can I find more information?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by snowpony on November 27, 2001, at 22:45:58
In reply to SPECT analysis information, posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 27, 2001, at 14:59:02
I saw my pdoc last night and asked about SPECT and he claims that the info the get from it mostly is to determine what is going in your brain to see if you have depression, anxiety or other ailment. He said it wasn't used to decide what meds to us but to just decide the ailment. I am not on an insurance plan so I don't believe that is stopping him from having me do one.
I will check out the book you mentioned, he may not be fully up to date on the SPECT.
Posted by sjb on November 28, 2001, at 13:37:58
In reply to Re: SPECT analysis information, posted by snowpony on November 27, 2001, at 22:45:58
I like the book a lot and go back to it often for reference. Some of my favorite parts:
"When you're 18 you worry that everyone is talking about you, when you're 40 you don't give a damn, and when you're 65 you realize nobody ever talked about you"(or gave a crap.) I may not have quoted this exactly right, but you get the point, for all you fellow neurotics out there.
Also, the "Brain Do's" and "Don'ts" at the end of the book are also nice - helpful for all types of depression, I believe. Most are things we've heard before, but it's quick and easy to reread and try implement on a daily basis. I'm also trying some of the supplements he recommended. I basically am not into supplements and think most of the time, they are a waste of money, but what the hey.
I'm trying some of the supplements he recommended for my diagnosis (not from SPECT - from my own PDOC) and am adding Ginko, Tyrosine and Grape Seed Extract. It maybe wasting my $, but who here hasn't wasted money looking for improvement? Besides,
This is the end of the thread.
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