![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by adamie on November 6, 2001, at 22:01:07
hi. I have been on zyprexa 5mg before for maybe 3 weeks and it seemed to not help for my depression. The pdoc at the hospital I was staying at decided to try something else so that was the end of that. Right now I am 24 days on zyprexa and it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel quite tired and just generally very very very very bad. The reason I went back on zyprexa is because it seemed not to make my depression worse which has been the case with all AD's I've tried. I dont know why but they make my depression much worse. In some cases they have caused me to be suicidal. Although paxil seemed to have the least of such an effect although it's hard to remember. Should I completely give up on zyprexa and just try something else? I have an apointment with a pdoc on Nov 8th. I was thinking maybe try something along with the zyprexa but I dont really have the financial support to keep taking the zyprexa. I could keep taking it but that means possibly less meds to try in the future. And when does it usually take for zyprexa to work? Shouldn't 3 weeks be enough? I am sick of feeling horrible. perhaps i should stick with the zyprexa for 1 more week just to see if it may possibly help and if not then i should go with a new med. And the new med I try will hopefully be a mood stabilizer. I want to try something very different from anti depressants since something do they is very bad for me. A med is not supossed to make me suicidal. My life goes from being livable enough to constant mind torture and inability to function.Also I have tried Moclobemide (Manerex) while being on zyprexa. I was on it 4 days. I couldn't tell if it was making my depression worse like the other AD's had but I was extremely tired and sleepy on it. I slept like 15+ hours a day. So apperently there's an interaction between the two meds because such an effect is not supossed to happen. So perhaps I should try that again when I end up stopping the zyprexa. Actually I think I should try a mood stabilizer first. Anyway I hope I'll be better soon.
I guess my depression is not a usual type. Since I sleep far too much than normal. Before the depression I actually would have a bit of insomnia simply because I would think a lot about various things. Yet with this depression it's as if I'm brain dead. Thinking ability and memory are extremely poor. memory expecially. I cant remember almost anything about my ex-fiance for example. My inability to think and concentrate are a huge part of my depression. They prevent me from being able to enjoy anything. It's as if my mind goes blank all the time. All I do each day is try to pass the time. I just feel quite horrible most of the time. My depression by the way is caused by accutane. If I had known of such possible and lasting side effects I would never have taken it. It's as if my life is ruined. And with all these med failures it makes me wonder sometimes if anything will ever help. I even had 6 ECT treatments. It hasn't helped except maybe a little, it's hard to tell how much it helped. I guess I should stick with this zyprexa to see if by the 4th or 5th week if it provides any relief. If not then I'll just try whatever I got prescribed on Nov 8th.
and recently I've read that zyprexa has a mild anti depressant effect. perhaps this is why I felt as if it may not be causing a worsening effect? But if an AD effect doesn't work for me then I wonder what will. I hope a mood stabilizer will be my miracle. sometimes the days are just too hard. I'll be forced to go back to school next year. I dont know how I'll pass anything. My concentration and ability to recall information are beyond horrible. And I certainly dont know how I'll be able to work like this. Hopefully there will be some miracle soon.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:28:02
In reply to Give up on Zyprexa?, posted by adamie on November 6, 2001, at 22:01:07
If you tried anti-convulsants?
When all else fails....lamictal.
I don't think I can personally think of
a single person who got more depressed on
lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
people have done well combining lamictal
with zyprexa (me).Also, have you tried Parnate or Selegiline?
These have MAO-B inhibition which can be
stimulating somewhat like amphetamine.-john
>
> hi. I have been on zyprexa 5mg before for maybe 3 weeks and it seemed to not help for my depression. The pdoc at the hospital I was staying at decided to try something else so that was the end of that. Right now I am 24 days on zyprexa and it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel quite tired and just generally very very very very bad. The reason I went back on zyprexa is because it seemed not to make my depression worse which has been the case with all AD's I've tried. I dont know why but they make my depression much worse. In some cases they have caused me to be suicidal. Although paxil seemed to have the least of such an effect although it's hard to remember. Should I completely give up on zyprexa and just try something else? I have an apointment with a pdoc on Nov 8th. I was thinking maybe try something along with the zyprexa but I dont really have the financial support to keep taking the zyprexa. I could keep taking it but that means possibly less meds to try in the future. And when does it usually take for zyprexa to work? Shouldn't 3 weeks be enough? I am sick of feeling horrible. perhaps i should stick with the zyprexa for 1 more week just to see if it may possibly help and if not then i should go with a new med. And the new med I try will hopefully be a mood stabilizer. I want to try something very different from anti depressants since something do they is very bad for me. A med is not supossed to make me suicidal. My life goes from being livable enough to constant mind torture and inability to function.
>
> Also I have tried Moclobemide (Manerex) while being on zyprexa. I was on it 4 days. I couldn't tell if it was making my depression worse like the other AD's had but I was extremely tired and sleepy on it. I slept like 15+ hours a day. So apperently there's an interaction between the two meds because such an effect is not supossed to happen. So perhaps I should try that again when I end up stopping the zyprexa. Actually I think I should try a mood stabilizer first. Anyway I hope I'll be better soon.
>
> I guess my depression is not a usual type. Since I sleep far too much than normal. Before the depression I actually would have a bit of insomnia simply because I would think a lot about various things. Yet with this depression it's as if I'm brain dead. Thinking ability and memory are extremely poor. memory expecially. I cant remember almost anything about my ex-fiance for example. My inability to think and concentrate are a huge part of my depression. They prevent me from being able to enjoy anything. It's as if my mind goes blank all the time. All I do each day is try to pass the time. I just feel quite horrible most of the time. My depression by the way is caused by accutane. If I had known of such possible and lasting side effects I would never have taken it. It's as if my life is ruined. And with all these med failures it makes me wonder sometimes if anything will ever help. I even had 6 ECT treatments. It hasn't helped except maybe a little, it's hard to tell how much it helped. I guess I should stick with this zyprexa to see if by the 4th or 5th week if it provides any relief. If not then I'll just try whatever I got prescribed on Nov 8th.
>
> and recently I've read that zyprexa has a mild anti depressant effect. perhaps this is why I felt as if it may not be causing a worsening effect? But if an AD effect doesn't work for me then I wonder what will. I hope a mood stabilizer will be my miracle. sometimes the days are just too hard. I'll be forced to go back to school next year. I dont know how I'll pass anything. My concentration and ability to recall information are beyond horrible. And I certainly dont know how I'll be able to work like this. Hopefully there will be some miracle soon.
Posted by JahL on November 7, 2001, at 0:05:31
In reply to Re: Give up on Zyprexa? » adamie, posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:28:02
>
> If you tried anti-convulsants?
> When all else fails....lamictal.
> I don't think I can personally think of
> a single person who got more depressed on
> lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> people have done well combining lamictal
> with zyprexa (me).Hi John.
I agree Lamictal is unlikely to worsen depression.
Can I ask what doses of Lamictal & Zyprexa you take? Which did you start first? Do you feel their relationship to be synergistic or are the effects just additive? Any other info along these lines?
Thanks,
J.
Posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 15:37:21
In reply to Re: Give up on Zyprexa? » adamie, posted by JohnX2 on November 6, 2001, at 23:28:02
No, I haven't tried any anti convulsants. Are anti convulsants the same thing as mood stabilizers? What's the difference? Tomorrow I got an apointment so I'll be hoping to try lamictal. I guess I will take it along with my zyprexa. I am very impatient so I will not go with my previous plan of seeing if simply just the zyprexa will help. Also provigil seems like a choice but I hear that it's quite expensive.and no I haven't tried those MAOI's. I did try Moclobemide for 4 days. It seemed to have interacted with the zyprexa and made me extremely tired and sleepy to the point where I had to stop it. I think it may deffinetly be worth a try once I am off the zyprexa.
> If you tried anti-convulsants?
> When all else fails....lamictal.
> I don't think I can personally think of
> a single person who got more depressed on
> lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> people have done well combining lamictal
> with zyprexa (me).
>
> Also, have you tried Parnate or Selegiline?
> These have MAO-B inhibition which can be
> stimulating somewhat like amphetamine.
>
> -john
>
>
> >
> > hi. I have been on zyprexa 5mg before for maybe 3 weeks and it seemed to not help for my depression. The pdoc at the hospital I was staying at decided to try something else so that was the end of that. Right now I am 24 days on zyprexa and it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel quite tired and just generally very very very very bad. The reason I went back on zyprexa is because it seemed not to make my depression worse which has been the case with all AD's I've tried. I dont know why but they make my depression much worse. In some cases they have caused me to be suicidal. Although paxil seemed to have the least of such an effect although it's hard to remember. Should I completely give up on zyprexa and just try something else? I have an apointment with a pdoc on Nov 8th. I was thinking maybe try something along with the zyprexa but I dont really have the financial support to keep taking the zyprexa. I could keep taking it but that means possibly less meds to try in the future. And when does it usually take for zyprexa to work? Shouldn't 3 weeks be enough? I am sick of feeling horrible. perhaps i should stick with the zyprexa for 1 more week just to see if it may possibly help and if not then i should go with a new med. And the new med I try will hopefully be a mood stabilizer. I want to try something very different from anti depressants since something do they is very bad for me. A med is not supossed to make me suicidal. My life goes from being livable enough to constant mind torture and inability to function.
> >
> > Also I have tried Moclobemide (Manerex) while being on zyprexa. I was on it 4 days. I couldn't tell if it was making my depression worse like the other AD's had but I was extremely tired and sleepy on it. I slept like 15+ hours a day. So apperently there's an interaction between the two meds because such an effect is not supossed to happen. So perhaps I should try that again when I end up stopping the zyprexa. Actually I think I should try a mood stabilizer first. Anyway I hope I'll be better soon.
> >
> > I guess my depression is not a usual type. Since I sleep far too much than normal. Before the depression I actually would have a bit of insomnia simply because I would think a lot about various things. Yet with this depression it's as if I'm brain dead. Thinking ability and memory are extremely poor. memory expecially. I cant remember almost anything about my ex-fiance for example. My inability to think and concentrate are a huge part of my depression. They prevent me from being able to enjoy anything. It's as if my mind goes blank all the time. All I do each day is try to pass the time. I just feel quite horrible most of the time. My depression by the way is caused by accutane. If I had known of such possible and lasting side effects I would never have taken it. It's as if my life is ruined. And with all these med failures it makes me wonder sometimes if anything will ever help. I even had 6 ECT treatments. It hasn't helped except maybe a little, it's hard to tell how much it helped. I guess I should stick with this zyprexa to see if by the 4th or 5th week if it provides any relief. If not then I'll just try whatever I got prescribed on Nov 8th.
> >
> > and recently I've read that zyprexa has a mild anti depressant effect. perhaps this is why I felt as if it may not be causing a worsening effect? But if an AD effect doesn't work for me then I wonder what will. I hope a mood stabilizer will be my miracle. sometimes the days are just too hard. I'll be forced to go back to school next year. I dont know how I'll pass anything. My concentration and ability to recall information are beyond horrible. And I certainly dont know how I'll be able to work like this. Hopefully there will be some miracle soon.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 7, 2001, at 19:54:44
In reply to Re: Give up on Zyprexa? » JohnX2, posted by JahL on November 7, 2001, at 0:05:31
Hi Jahl,I take 150 mg of Lamictal/day. I found this to be
the minimum dose that eliminates all major
depression symtoms and peripheral neuropathy. It doesn't cure my dysthymia
however. It doesn't flatten my mood like the
other anti-convulsants. I tried 225, which was
about the same as 150. At 300 mg, lamictal
does this weird thing that zoloft and wellbutrin
do which is it gives me a bad tension headache
and make me feel emotionally detached. It has a wierd dose response
curve for me since between < 150 ineffective,
between 150-225 helps all symptoms, > 225
makes things worse. Strange. Doctor can't think
of a reason why.After stumbling onto lamictal, i have been trying
adjunctive meds to see if they would help with the
dysthymia and tension headaches. 1st I tried the AD's I took that knocked
out the depression and made me manic (Wellbutrin
and Zoloft). Unfortunately they didn't work with
lamictal. I also tried trileptal at my latest
pdocs suggestion and I hated it. I then asked for
zyprexa because of I believed a med that antagonized
the 5ht-2 serotonin receptor would help with
my chronic tension headaches and dysthymia. The
only other med that did this was Serzone which
made me too drowsy and drunk feeling (I crashed
my car). Fortunately Zyprexa has helped remakedly
with my anxiety/headaches and somewhat with the dysthymia
(I take 5 mg/day). It doesn't affect my cognition
like Serzone did. My boss even commented the other
day that I was "looking better". Those dark rings
under my eyes have disappeared and I've reclaimed
my appetite.regards,
-john
> >
> > If you tried anti-convulsants?
> > When all else fails....lamictal.
> > I don't think I can personally think of
> > a single person who got more depressed on
> > lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> > people have done well combining lamictal
> > with zyprexa (me).
>
> Hi John.
>
> I agree Lamictal is unlikely to worsen depression.
>
> Can I ask what doses of Lamictal & Zyprexa you take? Which did you start first? Do you feel their relationship to be synergistic or are the effects just additive? Any other info along these lines?
>
> Thanks,
> J.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 7, 2001, at 19:58:34
In reply to Re: Give up on Zyprexa? » JahL, posted by JohnX2 on November 7, 2001, at 19:54:44
Regarding the synergy. I think there is a
synergy between Lamictal and Zyprexa.
Lamictal stabilizes electrolytes to the nmda
receptors (stimulated by glutamate). Zyprexa
antagonizes the serotonin 5ht-2a receptors
which indirectly stimulate nmda receptors.-john
>
> Hi Jahl,
>
> I take 150 mg of Lamictal/day. I found this to be
> the minimum dose that eliminates all major
> depression symtoms and peripheral neuropathy. It doesn't cure my dysthymia
> however. It doesn't flatten my mood like the
> other anti-convulsants. I tried 225, which was
> about the same as 150. At 300 mg, lamictal
> does this weird thing that zoloft and wellbutrin
> do which is it gives me a bad tension headache
> and make me feel emotionally detached. It has a wierd dose response
> curve for me since between < 150 ineffective,
> between 150-225 helps all symptoms, > 225
> makes things worse. Strange. Doctor can't think
> of a reason why.
>
> After stumbling onto lamictal, i have been trying
> adjunctive meds to see if they would help with the
> dysthymia and tension headaches. 1st I tried the AD's I took that knocked
> out the depression and made me manic (Wellbutrin
> and Zoloft). Unfortunately they didn't work with
> lamictal. I also tried trileptal at my latest
> pdocs suggestion and I hated it. I then asked for
> zyprexa because of I believed a med that antagonized
> the 5ht-2 serotonin receptor would help with
> my chronic tension headaches and dysthymia. The
> only other med that did this was Serzone which
> made me too drowsy and drunk feeling (I crashed
> my car). Fortunately Zyprexa has helped remakedly
> with my anxiety/headaches and somewhat with the dysthymia
> (I take 5 mg/day). It doesn't affect my cognition
> like Serzone did. My boss even commented the other
> day that I was "looking better". Those dark rings
> under my eyes have disappeared and I've reclaimed
> my appetite.
>
> regards,
> -john
>
>
> > >
> > > If you tried anti-convulsants?
> > > When all else fails....lamictal.
> > > I don't think I can personally think of
> > > a single person who got more depressed on
> > > lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> > > people have done well combining lamictal
> > > with zyprexa (me).
> >
> > Hi John.
> >
> > I agree Lamictal is unlikely to worsen depression.
> >
> > Can I ask what doses of Lamictal & Zyprexa you take? Which did you start first? Do you feel their relationship to be synergistic or are the effects just additive? Any other info along these lines?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > J.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 7, 2001, at 20:07:15
In reply to Difference in anti-convulsants mood stabilizers? » JohnX2, posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 15:37:21
Yes anti-convulsants are the same thing as
mood stabilizers. Please don't think that their
anti-manic action would make you depressed that
is not true. Worse case scenario the mood stablizer
just makes the lows less low and prevent mania. They also help to
"set up" the brain chemistry in a way that is more
conducive to getting a good response on a add on
anti-depressant too. Lamictal of the mood stabilizer
seems to have a unique property of handling people
who just don't do well on any other med. It's
pretty good at eliminating major depression and
relapses. I wouldn't guess it would completely
"cure" you by itself, but it could get you on
you feet and in a position to have a robust add
on anti-depressant response.Also, as far as the anti-depressants go, I would
seriously consider Parnate or Selegiline. They
are unlikely to make you more depressed, and
are of a different class than you have tried.
Also the stimulant idea was good.good luck,
john>
> No, I haven't tried any anti convulsants. Are anti convulsants the same thing as mood stabilizers? What's the difference? Tomorrow I got an apointment so I'll be hoping to try lamictal. I guess I will take it along with my zyprexa. I am very impatient so I will not go with my previous plan of seeing if simply just the zyprexa will help. Also provigil seems like a choice but I hear that it's quite expensive.
>
> and no I haven't tried those MAOI's. I did try Moclobemide for 4 days. It seemed to have interacted with the zyprexa and made me extremely tired and sleepy to the point where I had to stop it. I think it may deffinetly be worth a try once I am off the zyprexa.
>
> > If you tried anti-convulsants?
> > When all else fails....lamictal.
> > I don't think I can personally think of
> > a single person who got more depressed on
> > lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> > people have done well combining lamictal
> > with zyprexa (me).
> >
> > Also, have you tried Parnate or Selegiline?
> > These have MAO-B inhibition which can be
> > stimulating somewhat like amphetamine.
> >
> > -john
> >
> >
> > >
> > > hi. I have been on zyprexa 5mg before for maybe 3 weeks and it seemed to not help for my depression. The pdoc at the hospital I was staying at decided to try something else so that was the end of that. Right now I am 24 days on zyprexa and it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel quite tired and just generally very very very very bad. The reason I went back on zyprexa is because it seemed not to make my depression worse which has been the case with all AD's I've tried. I dont know why but they make my depression much worse. In some cases they have caused me to be suicidal. Although paxil seemed to have the least of such an effect although it's hard to remember. Should I completely give up on zyprexa and just try something else? I have an apointment with a pdoc on Nov 8th. I was thinking maybe try something along with the zyprexa but I dont really have the financial support to keep taking the zyprexa. I could keep taking it but that means possibly less meds to try in the future. And when does it usually take for zyprexa to work? Shouldn't 3 weeks be enough? I am sick of feeling horrible. perhaps i should stick with the zyprexa for 1 more week just to see if it may possibly help and if not then i should go with a new med. And the new med I try will hopefully be a mood stabilizer. I want to try something very different from anti depressants since something do they is very bad for me. A med is not supossed to make me suicidal. My life goes from being livable enough to constant mind torture and inability to function.
> > >
> > > Also I have tried Moclobemide (Manerex) while being on zyprexa. I was on it 4 days. I couldn't tell if it was making my depression worse like the other AD's had but I was extremely tired and sleepy on it. I slept like 15+ hours a day. So apperently there's an interaction between the two meds because such an effect is not supossed to happen. So perhaps I should try that again when I end up stopping the zyprexa. Actually I think I should try a mood stabilizer first. Anyway I hope I'll be better soon.
> > >
> > > I guess my depression is not a usual type. Since I sleep far too much than normal. Before the depression I actually would have a bit of insomnia simply because I would think a lot about various things. Yet with this depression it's as if I'm brain dead. Thinking ability and memory are extremely poor. memory expecially. I cant remember almost anything about my ex-fiance for example. My inability to think and concentrate are a huge part of my depression. They prevent me from being able to enjoy anything. It's as if my mind goes blank all the time. All I do each day is try to pass the time. I just feel quite horrible most of the time. My depression by the way is caused by accutane. If I had known of such possible and lasting side effects I would never have taken it. It's as if my life is ruined. And with all these med failures it makes me wonder sometimes if anything will ever help. I even had 6 ECT treatments. It hasn't helped except maybe a little, it's hard to tell how much it helped. I guess I should stick with this zyprexa to see if by the 4th or 5th week if it provides any relief. If not then I'll just try whatever I got prescribed on Nov 8th.
> > >
> > > and recently I've read that zyprexa has a mild anti depressant effect. perhaps this is why I felt as if it may not be causing a worsening effect? But if an AD effect doesn't work for me then I wonder what will. I hope a mood stabilizer will be my miracle. sometimes the days are just too hard. I'll be forced to go back to school next year. I dont know how I'll pass anything. My concentration and ability to recall information are beyond horrible. And I certainly dont know how I'll be able to work like this. Hopefully there will be some miracle soon.
Posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 20:22:02
In reply to Re: Difference in anti-convulsants mood stabilizers? » adamie, posted by JohnX2 on November 7, 2001, at 20:07:15
Regarding Parnate and Selegiline... are the diet restrictions very easy to follow? There isn't much food variety in my home so I am wondering if it would mean lots of things I wouldn't be able to eat. Also how long do they take to work? And I take it that they have some type of stimulating effect? I really need something like that.Regarding Lamictal, can it for some people cure depression all on it's own? I am not much into polypharmacy since I often feel worse on medication and if i'm on two meds at once it would be hard to know what's making me worse. Although if I do get lamictal tomorrow (I am hoping I will) then I will take it with zyprexa.
> Yes anti-convulsants are the same thing as
> mood stabilizers. Please don't think that their
> anti-manic action would make you depressed that
> is not true. Worse case scenario the mood stablizer
> just makes the lows less low and prevent mania. They also help to
> "set up" the brain chemistry in a way that is more
> conducive to getting a good response on a add on
> anti-depressant too. Lamictal of the mood stabilizer
> seems to have a unique property of handling people
> who just don't do well on any other med. It's
> pretty good at eliminating major depression and
> relapses. I wouldn't guess it would completely
> "cure" you by itself, but it could get you on
> you feet and in a position to have a robust add
> on anti-depressant response.
>
> Also, as far as the anti-depressants go, I would
> seriously consider Parnate or Selegiline. They
> are unlikely to make you more depressed, and
> are of a different class than you have tried.
> Also the stimulant idea was good.
>
> good luck,
> john
>
>
>
> >
> > No, I haven't tried any anti convulsants. Are anti convulsants the same thing as mood stabilizers? What's the difference? Tomorrow I got an apointment so I'll be hoping to try lamictal. I guess I will take it along with my zyprexa. I am very impatient so I will not go with my previous plan of seeing if simply just the zyprexa will help. Also provigil seems like a choice but I hear that it's quite expensive.
> >
> > and no I haven't tried those MAOI's. I did try Moclobemide for 4 days. It seemed to have interacted with the zyprexa and made me extremely tired and sleepy to the point where I had to stop it. I think it may deffinetly be worth a try once I am off the zyprexa.
> >
> > > If you tried anti-convulsants?
> > > When all else fails....lamictal.
> > > I don't think I can personally think of
> > > a single person who got more depressed on
> > > lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> > > people have done well combining lamictal
> > > with zyprexa (me).
> > >
> > > Also, have you tried Parnate or Selegiline?
> > > These have MAO-B inhibition which can be
> > > stimulating somewhat like amphetamine.
> > >
> > > -john
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > hi. I have been on zyprexa 5mg before for maybe 3 weeks and it seemed to not help for my depression. The pdoc at the hospital I was staying at decided to try something else so that was the end of that. Right now I am 24 days on zyprexa and it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel quite tired and just generally very very very very bad. The reason I went back on zyprexa is because it seemed not to make my depression worse which has been the case with all AD's I've tried. I dont know why but they make my depression much worse. In some cases they have caused me to be suicidal. Although paxil seemed to have the least of such an effect although it's hard to remember. Should I completely give up on zyprexa and just try something else? I have an apointment with a pdoc on Nov 8th. I was thinking maybe try something along with the zyprexa but I dont really have the financial support to keep taking the zyprexa. I could keep taking it but that means possibly less meds to try in the future. And when does it usually take for zyprexa to work? Shouldn't 3 weeks be enough? I am sick of feeling horrible. perhaps i should stick with the zyprexa for 1 more week just to see if it may possibly help and if not then i should go with a new med. And the new med I try will hopefully be a mood stabilizer. I want to try something very different from anti depressants since something do they is very bad for me. A med is not supossed to make me suicidal. My life goes from being livable enough to constant mind torture and inability to function.
> > > >
> > > > Also I have tried Moclobemide (Manerex) while being on zyprexa. I was on it 4 days. I couldn't tell if it was making my depression worse like the other AD's had but I was extremely tired and sleepy on it. I slept like 15+ hours a day. So apperently there's an interaction between the two meds because such an effect is not supossed to happen. So perhaps I should try that again when I end up stopping the zyprexa. Actually I think I should try a mood stabilizer first. Anyway I hope I'll be better soon.
> > > >
> > > > I guess my depression is not a usual type. Since I sleep far too much than normal. Before the depression I actually would have a bit of insomnia simply because I would think a lot about various things. Yet with this depression it's as if I'm brain dead. Thinking ability and memory are extremely poor. memory expecially. I cant remember almost anything about my ex-fiance for example. My inability to think and concentrate are a huge part of my depression. They prevent me from being able to enjoy anything. It's as if my mind goes blank all the time. All I do each day is try to pass the time. I just feel quite horrible most of the time. My depression by the way is caused by accutane. If I had known of such possible and lasting side effects I would never have taken it. It's as if my life is ruined. And with all these med failures it makes me wonder sometimes if anything will ever help. I even had 6 ECT treatments. It hasn't helped except maybe a little, it's hard to tell how much it helped. I guess I should stick with this zyprexa to see if by the 4th or 5th week if it provides any relief. If not then I'll just try whatever I got prescribed on Nov 8th.
> > > >
> > > > and recently I've read that zyprexa has a mild anti depressant effect. perhaps this is why I felt as if it may not be causing a worsening effect? But if an AD effect doesn't work for me then I wonder what will. I hope a mood stabilizer will be my miracle. sometimes the days are just too hard. I'll be forced to go back to school next year. I dont know how I'll pass anything. My concentration and ability to recall information are beyond horrible. And I certainly dont know how I'll be able to work like this. Hopefully there will be some miracle soon.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 8, 2001, at 21:14:37
In reply to Re: Difference in anti-convulsants mood stabilizers? » JohnX2, posted by adamie on November 7, 2001, at 20:22:02
>
> Regarding Parnate and Selegiline... are the diet restrictions very easy to follow? There isn't much food variety in my home so I am wondering if it would mean lots of things I wouldn't be able to eat. Also how long do they take to work? And I take it that they have some type of stimulating effect? I really need something like that.I live in texas and our staple of food is
tex-mex (filled with cheese), Shiner Bock Beer,
and barbeque (sausage and the like). So I concur
with the concerns about the food restrictions.
However it seems as though you are at a point where
trading these things off makes sense to get
you out of your rut. Anecdotally, Selegline and
Parnate are stimulating and can have a dopamine
buzz like effect similar to adderall.>
> Regarding Lamictal, can it for some people cure depression all on it's own? I am not much into polypharmacy since I often feel worse on medication and if i'm on two meds at once it would be hard to know what's making me worse. Although if I do get lamictal tomorrow (I am hoping I will) then I will take it with zyprexa.
>For people who are bipolar, polypharmacy is the
rule not the exception. The brain needs to be
stabilzed for those other anti-depressants to
work appropriately. Lamictal has anecdotally one
of the better stand-alone anti-depressant responses.
I wouldn't fear taking lamictal as an adjunct to
any med. If you dose it properly it probably will
have few side effects, and is very unlikely to
cause depression. I think people can attest to this.
Some of the more difficult to treat people on this
group found solice in Lamictal and low doses of
anti-psychotics (like zyprexa). Again, this is
mostly anecdotal and included my own experience.
I think your case is complex, and you shouldn't
discount at least taking 2 meds at once, one of
them being a "stablizer" to keep the other med
in the ballgame.regards,
john
> > Yes anti-convulsants are the same thing as
> > mood stabilizers. Please don't think that their
> > anti-manic action would make you depressed that
> > is not true. Worse case scenario the mood stablizer
> > just makes the lows less low and prevent mania. They also help to
> > "set up" the brain chemistry in a way that is more
> > conducive to getting a good response on a add on
> > anti-depressant too. Lamictal of the mood stabilizer
> > seems to have a unique property of handling people
> > who just don't do well on any other med. It's
> > pretty good at eliminating major depression and
> > relapses. I wouldn't guess it would completely
> > "cure" you by itself, but it could get you on
> > you feet and in a position to have a robust add
> > on anti-depressant response.
> >
> > Also, as far as the anti-depressants go, I would
> > seriously consider Parnate or Selegiline. They
> > are unlikely to make you more depressed, and
> > are of a different class than you have tried.
> > Also the stimulant idea was good.
> >
> > good luck,
> > john
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > No, I haven't tried any anti convulsants. Are anti convulsants the same thing as mood stabilizers? What's the difference? Tomorrow I got an apointment so I'll be hoping to try lamictal. I guess I will take it along with my zyprexa. I am very impatient so I will not go with my previous plan of seeing if simply just the zyprexa will help. Also provigil seems like a choice but I hear that it's quite expensive.
> > >
> > > and no I haven't tried those MAOI's. I did try Moclobemide for 4 days. It seemed to have interacted with the zyprexa and made me extremely tired and sleepy to the point where I had to stop it. I think it may deffinetly be worth a try once I am off the zyprexa.
> > >
> > > > If you tried anti-convulsants?
> > > > When all else fails....lamictal.
> > > > I don't think I can personally think of
> > > > a single person who got more depressed on
> > > > lamictal, so its worth a go. A lot of
> > > > people have done well combining lamictal
> > > > with zyprexa (me).
> > > >
> > > > Also, have you tried Parnate or Selegiline?
> > > > These have MAO-B inhibition which can be
> > > > stimulating somewhat like amphetamine.
> > > >
> > > > -john
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > hi. I have been on zyprexa 5mg before for maybe 3 weeks and it seemed to not help for my depression. The pdoc at the hospital I was staying at decided to try something else so that was the end of that. Right now I am 24 days on zyprexa and it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel quite tired and just generally very very very very bad. The reason I went back on zyprexa is because it seemed not to make my depression worse which has been the case with all AD's I've tried. I dont know why but they make my depression much worse. In some cases they have caused me to be suicidal. Although paxil seemed to have the least of such an effect although it's hard to remember. Should I completely give up on zyprexa and just try something else? I have an apointment with a pdoc on Nov 8th. I was thinking maybe try something along with the zyprexa but I dont really have the financial support to keep taking the zyprexa. I could keep taking it but that means possibly less meds to try in the future. And when does it usually take for zyprexa to work? Shouldn't 3 weeks be enough? I am sick of feeling horrible. perhaps i should stick with the zyprexa for 1 more week just to see if it may possibly help and if not then i should go with a new med. And the new med I try will hopefully be a mood stabilizer. I want to try something very different from anti depressants since something do they is very bad for me. A med is not supossed to make me suicidal. My life goes from being livable enough to constant mind torture and inability to function.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also I have tried Moclobemide (Manerex) while being on zyprexa. I was on it 4 days. I couldn't tell if it was making my depression worse like the other AD's had but I was extremely tired and sleepy on it. I slept like 15+ hours a day. So apperently there's an interaction between the two meds because such an effect is not supossed to happen. So perhaps I should try that again when I end up stopping the zyprexa. Actually I think I should try a mood stabilizer first. Anyway I hope I'll be better soon.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess my depression is not a usual type. Since I sleep far too much than normal. Before the depression I actually would have a bit of insomnia simply because I would think a lot about various things. Yet with this depression it's as if I'm brain dead. Thinking ability and memory are extremely poor. memory expecially. I cant remember almost anything about my ex-fiance for example. My inability to think and concentrate are a huge part of my depression. They prevent me from being able to enjoy anything. It's as if my mind goes blank all the time. All I do each day is try to pass the time. I just feel quite horrible most of the time. My depression by the way is caused by accutane. If I had known of such possible and lasting side effects I would never have taken it. It's as if my life is ruined. And with all these med failures it makes me wonder sometimes if anything will ever help. I even had 6 ECT treatments. It hasn't helped except maybe a little, it's hard to tell how much it helped. I guess I should stick with this zyprexa to see if by the 4th or 5th week if it provides any relief. If not then I'll just try whatever I got prescribed on Nov 8th.
> > > > >
> > > > > and recently I've read that zyprexa has a mild anti depressant effect. perhaps this is why I felt as if it may not be causing a worsening effect? But if an AD effect doesn't work for me then I wonder what will. I hope a mood stabilizer will be my miracle. sometimes the days are just too hard. I'll be forced to go back to school next year. I dont know how I'll pass anything. My concentration and ability to recall information are beyond horrible. And I certainly dont know how I'll be able to work like this. Hopefully there will be some miracle soon.
This is the end of the thread.
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