![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.
Posted by Stef on August 6, 2001, at 9:14:49
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
> I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
>
> I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.I don't know how my art helps me,but it does. I know that sometimes when I have something bugging me,going into my studio and recording a few tracks,(I'm a musician),is like a purging of demons,so to speak. And I also paint abstract,and when I do it can be like painting the things in my head out on a canvas,which helps get them out.
Not a cure,for me anyway,but being an artist certainly gives me an outlet that most people don't have.
Cheers,
Posted by grapebubblegum on August 6, 2001, at 10:00:13
In reply to Re: Art and depression, posted by Stef on August 6, 2001, at 9:14:49
This may not be of much help, but maybe you fundamentally don't like mixing your own artistic nature with your job? I know that my own creative side can only be liberated when it is very private, and I cannot stand the idea of working under scrutiny, whether the feedback is praise or criticism.
Posted by Poppy on August 6, 2001, at 10:45:37
In reply to Re: Art and depression, posted by grapebubblegum on August 6, 2001, at 10:00:13
yes, i feel this way, i cannot write when i am happy, anything half good anyway. I have alot of work but most of it is pre feeling good stuff. When I am down I can write amazing, its been two years now and I have maybe 1/10th of the completed work frm a year before I had begun treatment. I dont know why this is, I try to write when am feeling good and it is never any good, i cant express anything that people can really feel. Maybe it is just habit of being used to writing depressed, even though all my work isnt depressing. I am glad that I am better however, it is very frustrating at times, but I am finding more and more that I can do some things when I get to a certain point in the day and im just inspired. ANyway not making sense now, I wish you luck and inspiration .
Posted by kid_A on August 6, 2001, at 11:56:14
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
Im an artist, a writer, and I dabble in music, so there is a lot of creative directions for me to go in... I know that when I was not on medication I never wanted to write, in fact the last poem I had written for a good long while had the closing line "...and these are the last words we will ever say". It certainly looked as if that was the case, as I didnt work on anything else, including any art for a long time.Once I started medication, once I recognised things in myself that I wanted to change I was able to get back on track and now I'm back to writing again... I can't say I'm 100%, but at least I have some drive to get something accomplished.
I think creation, in no matter what field of art is very important to personal growth. I think it gives you a sense of accomplishment to finish a piece, or to write something. The problem is, when you are too depressed to create you cant get any satisfaction from anything, even if you did finish it...
My advice is to stick to the medication, go to talk therapy if you feel you are up to it, and keep creating... Every single work that you do is one step further away from nothing at all...
Posted by adamie on August 6, 2001, at 12:23:22
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
> I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
>
> I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.hi. With my depression I have lost almost all of my creativity but as I get better it does come back. For depression I personally wouldn't think art therapy will work. Doing the things you used to enjoy is when you feel better, therefor one's depression has to be better. but some depression may work in different ways. I tried paxil before and it was horrible for creativity. it was actually quite bad for me for most everything. then I went off it and 4 days after my severe depression suddenly was becoming mild! I was feeling so good! creativity and passion for music among other things was returned but of course not to it's fullest extent. although this good feeling didn't last. then I was just decent. then it got worse and I was merely okay. okay as in not wanting to kill myself. okay as in little mind torture that i can handle. very livable but no doubt i must get better.
I am going to try Wellbutrin in a few days. From what people have told and from what I read it is supossed to be one of the better medications for lack of creativity and those who want full emotions back.
Posted by may_b on August 6, 2001, at 13:27:02
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
Hi Mickey
I could have written your post myself.
>
> I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.I agree with you on this. I tried Celexa and found it helped me teach but not create. I wish you better luck. Sometimes I think the teaching bleeds the best of the creative juice away from one's own work -- and while that isn't all loss, it does seem that years of teaching do have a cumulative cost in terms of impact on creativity in one's own work. I work in a large teaching setting of creative folk and, while this is NOT true of all the teachers there, it is common. The best "survivors" limit what they pour into their teaching -- [something I have yet to learn...]
Best wishes,
may_b
Posted by Edward on August 6, 2001, at 14:28:10
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
> I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.
Time for me to wallow in self pity.
I used to love music. Listening; writing; playing; recording. I used to experience periods of overwhelming sadness which would inspire me to write. I could never write well when I was happy, but I could never appreciate what I had done when I was sad. Now the sadness has turning into greyness, and the happiness has gone. I barely play my guitar anymore, and my attempts to learn the piano have nearly been killed off by boredom. Music sounds unemotional to me now. I haven't written any more than a few bars of anything in over a year now. I can't find the enthusiasm anymore.
Music helped me cope with depression, or whatever it is that I am experiencing, by making the sadness into something beautiful. Tchaikovsky in particular awoke a wonderful sensation of cartharsis in me. Now, in my worse moods, it sounds like frustrating noise.
Music was the only thing in my life beyond my close family that I truly cared about. Now I feel as if it has been taken from me, left me with nothing...
I could go on, but I think I've got it out of my system for now.
Posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 17:32:06
In reply to Re: Art and depression, posted by Edward on August 6, 2001, at 14:28:10
I wish to thank all for their comments. It seems as though my negative thoughts have decreased a good deal, enough to probably get me back to teaching (with some enthusiasm) but, as some of you have suggested teaching can drain much creative energy. I won't worry about that now.
I have been able to play my guitar and write perhaps because neither of these pursuits are more than fun things I do and they don't have the same significance for me as painting. Still there is a kind of dullness about it all.
I think I am also a little anxious about starting new work in that I am afraid the critic (internal) will return; and I am not eager for that. I also feel directionless. I am an abstract-expressionist painter but currently can barely lift a brush. How's that for expressionism?
Eventually I will tire of doing nothing and will jump in regardless. Thanks again.
Posted by KB on August 7, 2001, at 5:12:43
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
Although my experience with art is as a hobby, I did experience something similar in my professional life as a counselor while I was depressed. I just felt constantly incompetent,
like everything I did was wrong, I took every negative event or comment very personally, and just generally dreaded running groups and public speaking which I used to enjoy. I have been taking Celexa since mid-June and am returning to work (at a new job) today after 5 weeks off, so I'll let you know how it goes!
Posted by Roo on August 7, 2001, at 8:44:37
In reply to Re: Art and depression, posted by KB on August 7, 2001, at 5:12:43
Mickey--
I know exactly what you mean about the internal
critic. My suggestion would be to try and take
all the pressure off yourself. Give yourself
permission to paint the ugliest painting of your
life. Maybe just force yourself to do one brush
stroke a day. Try to let go of your desire to
paint something "good", and try to congratulate yourself
for just engaging in the process rather than the
outcome. This is what sometimes helps me.
Posted by mickey on August 7, 2001, at 8:56:30
In reply to Re: Art and depression, posted by Roo on August 7, 2001, at 8:44:37
Roo - I really like both of your suggestions, especially about trying to paint the ugliest painting possible. My internal critic will then think it's to good. Ha. Getting that first brush stroke will be the hardest.
Posted by Wendy B. on August 7, 2001, at 13:11:10
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
Mickey,
Yes, sometimes artists who are also teachers get mixed up and become teachers who do art... Know what I mean? I think the goal is to remember that the painting is the work, the calling, for most people who define themselves as artists.
That said, you should feel free to NOT paint and have that be ok. No one else is judging you about not painting, I assume. Try not to judge yourself so harshly. I realize if that were so easy, none of us would be depressed or anxious or whatever, but...
Everyone in my sibling group & my mother, including me, have a theatrical bent, we sing, dance, and tell funny stories. We almost all paint, draw, act, play music, write. Sometimes we have done it for a living, sometimes we have taught in order to pay the bills. It's easier to focus on oneself and one's own growth as an artist, to not teach. It is physically draining, makes it harder to go in the studio when you're tired. Then there are the students themselves, who can drain you emotionally. As a college teacher, I had so many girls who were going to get an abortion, or who were anorexic, or boys who had crushes on me or couldn't finish papers because they had to play a basketball game, or their grandparent died, etc, etc. Each one requires individual attention, and you get involved in their lives and worry about them. You're a human being responding to other humans. That can take its toll on us as well.
However, the exigencies of life, such as bill-paying, get muddled up with teaching art or writing or acting. And what people do to find the proper balance, for them, is a subject of much debate, as I'm sure you know. There are probably many books on the subject... Go to amazon.com and get yourself a book to read that may have ideas or suggestions.
So why not just think of this time as a much-needed break from painting, or painter's block, and just leave it at that... If you are in the middle of a depression, just wait this period out. Easy to say, hard to do. But keep those negative critic words away. Don't paint if you can't, it's all OKAY. Give yourself some slack. It's a time of growth. Something positive WILL come out of this period for you, I know it, I have really been there.
Play guitar, listen to music, go to a local hangout and listen to people play music. Go to some art galleries and museums, try to get yourself out of yourself and enjoy what others have made.
Give yourself a break. You will get back to your artwork, with the lifting of the depression that the med will give you. Keep looking for the right med if the Celexa doesn't do it, or try a combination of meds. You've only been on the celexa for 2 weeks, give it time...
You have support here, keep writing to us, that in itself can be very therapeutic.
:-]
Wendy
> I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
>
> I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.
Posted by v on August 8, 2001, at 7:31:42
In reply to Re: Art and depression » Mickey, posted by Wendy B. on August 7, 2001, at 13:11:10
wendy, you sound very wise and your words are much appreciated
i just had to stick my 2¢ in after reading this post...blessings, v
> Mickey,
>
> Yes, sometimes artists who are also teachers get mixed up and become teachers who do art... Know what I mean? I think the goal is to remember that the painting is the work, the calling, for most people who define themselves as artists.
>
> That said, you should feel free to NOT paint and have that be ok. No one else is judging you about not painting, I assume. Try not to judge yourself so harshly. I realize if that were so easy, none of us would be depressed or anxious or whatever, but...
>
> Everyone in my sibling group & my mother, including me, have a theatrical bent, we sing, dance, and tell funny stories. We almost all paint, draw, act, play music, write. Sometimes we have done it for a living, sometimes we have taught in order to pay the bills. It's easier to focus on oneself and one's own growth as an artist, to not teach. It is physically draining, makes it harder to go in the studio when you're tired. Then there are the students themselves, who can drain you emotionally. As a college teacher, I had so many girls who were going to get an abortion, or who were anorexic, or boys who had crushes on me or couldn't finish papers because they had to play a basketball game, or their grandparent died, etc, etc. Each one requires individual attention, and you get involved in their lives and worry about them. You're a human being responding to other humans. That can take its toll on us as well.
>
> However, the exigencies of life, such as bill-paying, get muddled up with teaching art or writing or acting. And what people do to find the proper balance, for them, is a subject of much debate, as I'm sure you know. There are probably many books on the subject... Go to amazon.com and get yourself a book to read that may have ideas or suggestions.
>
> So why not just think of this time as a much-needed break from painting, or painter's block, and just leave it at that... If you are in the middle of a depression, just wait this period out. Easy to say, hard to do. But keep those negative critic words away. Don't paint if you can't, it's all OKAY. Give yourself some slack. It's a time of growth. Something positive WILL come out of this period for you, I know it, I have really been there.
>
> Play guitar, listen to music, go to a local hangout and listen to people play music. Go to some art galleries and museums, try to get yourself out of yourself and enjoy what others have made.
>
> Give yourself a break. You will get back to your artwork, with the lifting of the depression that the med will give you. Keep looking for the right med if the Celexa doesn't do it, or try a combination of meds. You've only been on the celexa for 2 weeks, give it time...
>
> You have support here, keep writing to us, that in itself can be very therapeutic.
>
> :-]
> Wendy
>
>
> > I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
> >
> > I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.
Posted by Georgie Geordie on August 9, 2001, at 2:31:55
In reply to Art and depression, posted by Mickey on August 6, 2001, at 8:58:02
I'm an artist too...the whole thing about creativity you must know its that its action inspired by must do feelings...and art is not just painting....i've gone from painting to music to writing and all the senses and intellects get mixed up where being an artist is a state...you enter into it involuntarily....theres the other side...remain productive and vary what you do casually trying this new technique and that, just for the hell of it..dont try and second guess this stuff...just be..
as for drugs...to be creative....they help when the wave has started.....but can lead to trouble usually....you are an artist you know that so do something else...would a priest demand God turn up...? but he still prays every day..
Posted by mickey on August 9, 2001, at 9:29:40
In reply to Re: Art and depression, posted by Georgie Geordie on August 9, 2001, at 2:31:55
"action inspired by must do feelings..."
GG, This phrase caught my eye. I think I know what you mean by "must do" though it can be interpreted in several ways. For now I am in a rebellious mood and that word "must" has that sound of "should" in it, as in a command rather than a desire. I am feeling a bit stubborn too, and tentative. I do not wish to dive back in. As a matter of fact I am reluctant to even get my toes wet. Perhaps this is an incubation phase.
Posted by Wendy B. on August 9, 2001, at 12:04:28
In reply to Re: Art and depression » Wendy B., posted by v on August 8, 2001, at 7:31:42
> wendy, you sound very wise and your words are much appreciated
>
> i just had to stick my 2¢ in after reading this post...blessings, v******
Thanks, V, you made my day... Haven't heard much from you on the board, how are you doing lately?
more blessings, Wendy
********> > Mickey,
> >
> > Yes, sometimes artists who are also teachers get mixed up and become teachers who do art... Know what I mean? I think the goal is to remember that the painting is the work, the calling, for most people who define themselves as artists.
> >
> > That said, you should feel free to NOT paint and have that be ok. No one else is judging you about not painting, I assume. Try not to judge yourself so harshly. I realize if that were so easy, none of us would be depressed or anxious or whatever, but...
> >
> > Everyone in my sibling group & my mother, including me, have a theatrical bent, we sing, dance, and tell funny stories. We almost all paint, draw, act, play music, write. Sometimes we have done it for a living, sometimes we have taught in order to pay the bills. It's easier to focus on oneself and one's own growth as an artist, to not teach. It is physically draining, makes it harder to go in the studio when you're tired. Then there are the students themselves, who can drain you emotionally. As a college teacher, I had so many girls who were going to get an abortion, or who were anorexic, or boys who had crushes on me or couldn't finish papers because they had to play a basketball game, or their grandparent died, etc, etc. Each one requires individual attention, and you get involved in their lives and worry about them. You're a human being responding to other humans. That can take its toll on us as well.
> >
> > However, the exigencies of life, such as bill-paying, get muddled up with teaching art or writing or acting. And what people do to find the proper balance, for them, is a subject of much debate, as I'm sure you know. There are probably many books on the subject... Go to amazon.com and get yourself a book to read that may have ideas or suggestions.
> >
> > So why not just think of this time as a much-needed break from painting, or painter's block, and just leave it at that... If you are in the middle of a depression, just wait this period out. Easy to say, hard to do. But keep those negative critic words away. Don't paint if you can't, it's all OKAY. Give yourself some slack. It's a time of growth. Something positive WILL come out of this period for you, I know it, I have really been there.
> >
> > Play guitar, listen to music, go to a local hangout and listen to people play music. Go to some art galleries and museums, try to get yourself out of yourself and enjoy what others have made.
> >
> > Give yourself a break. You will get back to your artwork, with the lifting of the depression that the med will give you. Keep looking for the right med if the Celexa doesn't do it, or try a combination of meds. You've only been on the celexa for 2 weeks, give it time...
> >
> > You have support here, keep writing to us, that in itself can be very therapeutic.
> >
> > :-]
> > Wendy
> >
> >
> > > I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
> > >
> > > I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.
Posted by mickey on August 9, 2001, at 19:38:24
In reply to Re: Art and depression » v, posted by Wendy B. on August 9, 2001, at 12:04:28
Wendy, I have read your post many times over. I am not sure how to respond other than to say thank you. There is something about letting go of certain notions one holds to be true when they no longer fit. One path may lead to a dead end, but there are other roads to take.
I feel like there is a battle going on inside. My eneimies are strong and will not easily surrender their power. I at least recognize them for what they are. They are ghosts which haunt me. They wish to destroy all that is beauty and grace. I must reach deep inside to grasp the truth. I know it's there, inside, waiting to be rediscovered.
Each day passes as though I am in a fog. How can this be? I threw the I Ching today. It suggested modesty in the face of wealth. I understand it's meaning. It is time to put it in practice.
Warm regards,
Mickey
Posted by Wendy B. on August 9, 2001, at 22:27:14
In reply to Re: Art and depression - Wendy, posted by mickey on August 9, 2001, at 19:38:24
> Wendy, I have read your post many times over. I am not sure how to respond other than to say thank you. There is something about letting go of certain notions one holds to be true when they no longer fit. One path may lead to a dead end, but there are other roads to take.
>
> I feel like there is a battle going on inside. My eneimies are strong and will not easily surrender their power. I at least recognize them for what they are. They are ghosts which haunt me. They wish to destroy all that is beauty and grace. I must reach deep inside to grasp the truth. I know it's there, inside, waiting to be rediscovered.
>
> Each day passes as though I am in a fog. How can this be? I threw the I Ching today. It suggested modesty in the face of wealth. I understand it's meaning. It is time to put it in practice.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Mickey
Wow, Mickey, I am humbled by your message...I hope the reason you read my message many times was because you thought it was helpful... When I read it again, it sounded a little preachy, maybe, I dunno... What are the paths you might choose from? Which notions do you think you can let go of? I'd be interested to know more...
Anyway, the ghosts that haunt you - it's a good metaphor for this depression thing, the fight between clarity and darkness. A battle inside, that's right. It's a very personal battle, each of us has to face it, alone, I'm afraid... What more is there to say, except I'm on the side of productivity and creativity and listening to the symptom (as Thomas Moore would say), rather than trying to eliminate it. It has to be experienced and heard. What is happening in that battle? Or is it a series of skirmishes in an ongoing war? Does it last the rest of our lives? I'm sure this period of being in a fog is going to be productive of something, it will produce some understanding in you so that you can move forward... I know this is true, or, I feel it, but for me, feeling IS knowing...
Throwing the I Ching is good, listening to as many different sources as you need to will help. 'Modesty in the face of wealth,' such a beautiful image, it suggests fullness and bounty to me, like: you have it all already. The fog will go away, but until it does, bask in it. I mean, as far as possible, within the realm of actually going through the motions of daily life. I hope you don't have to start teaching at all soon, so you can just take your time.
Finding the proper balance.
Letting go.
Knowing that change is necessary.
Seeking a truth which is always evolving and growing.I am touched that you have shared these things with us, thank you for that, it's meaningful and important. To me and to others, I'm sure...
Write more if you can, maybe it will help you make your way through the fog...Good night,
Wendy
Posted by v on August 10, 2001, at 5:48:59
In reply to Re: Art and depression » v, posted by Wendy B. on August 9, 2001, at 12:04:28
i've been in alot of pain... riding the roller coaster that is me... thanks for asking
this topic is just so personal to me... as an artist & and as someone who battles demons, there has always been the fear that if you take away the battle, then what would i say? the answer, of course, is that there is ALWAYS something to say.... my depression has fed & driven my art and it has also starved & deprived me of the only voice i trust... i am an artist whether i like it or not, whether i produce or not, whether i choose it or not... it has chosen me... and i agree that the medium is fluid... that there is artistry in breath and being, just as there is in activity and doing
but knowing these things doesn't make it any easier & right now i am struggling... as an artist, as a human, & as an athlete... which seems to comprise my major triad... i have yet to figure out where my healer fits in, although as i write these words it seems to me that healer is the major classifier of my purpose and the triad is what the purpose is made of... if i were functioning as a human, artist & athlete.. then i would be able to be heal... anyway i'm grateful for the opportunity to be able speak and hear my own words...
it is said that when you reach out and give advise or love or whatever.. you must listen very, very carefully... for the message is for you to hear as well... we all hold the answer & the truth inside ourselves, but we forget... in giving, we remember
i also work in a creative field and sometimes (often) feel completely drained at the end of the day - with my head stuffed from my job and the ideas that come into my head off times are for work rather than for MY work - very frustrating!!!
mickey, i don't know where your work comes from so i can't specifically say what will work for you...but one of the things that has helped me in the past is to get crayons and a drawing pad and sit on the floor & just draw as a child would... draw your feelings of criticism & shame & anger & pain, as well as your joy & laugher & delight - whatever... btw, clay works well too... :)
teaching is a very difficult job, which demands you give alot of yourself to... you may just need to remember to hold something back or take something in (which ever works best for you) so you still have something left to give to yourself...
and it is true that srri's can numb you out which would make it hard to do your work - trial and error with meds will help with that... if you're not feeling like you want to, then change medications
whew... sorry for such a long post, i must have needed to hear alot... :)
with blessings,
v> > wendy, you sound very wise and your words are much appreciated
> >
> > i just had to stick my 2¢ in after reading this post...blessings, v
>
> ******
>
> Thanks, V, you made my day... Haven't heard much from you on the board, how are you doing lately?
>
> more blessings, Wendy
>
>
> ********
>
> > > Mickey,
> > >
> > > Yes, sometimes artists who are also teachers get mixed up and become teachers who do art... Know what I mean? I think the goal is to remember that the painting is the work, the calling, for most people who define themselves as artists.
> > >
> > > That said, you should feel free to NOT paint and have that be ok. No one else is judging you about not painting, I assume. Try not to judge yourself so harshly. I realize if that were so easy, none of us would be depressed or anxious or whatever, but...
> > >
> > > Everyone in my sibling group & my mother, including me, have a theatrical bent, we sing, dance, and tell funny stories. We almost all paint, draw, act, play music, write. Sometimes we have done it for a living, sometimes we have taught in order to pay the bills. It's easier to focus on oneself and one's own growth as an artist, to not teach. It is physically draining, makes it harder to go in the studio when you're tired. Then there are the students themselves, who can drain you emotionally. As a college teacher, I had so many girls who were going to get an abortion, or who were anorexic, or boys who had crushes on me or couldn't finish papers because they had to play a basketball game, or their grandparent died, etc, etc. Each one requires individual attention, and you get involved in their lives and worry about them. You're a human being responding to other humans. That can take its toll on us as well.
> > >
> > > However, the exigencies of life, such as bill-paying, get muddled up with teaching art or writing or acting. And what people do to find the proper balance, for them, is a subject of much debate, as I'm sure you know. There are probably many books on the subject... Go to amazon.com and get yourself a book to read that may have ideas or suggestions.
> > >
> > > So why not just think of this time as a much-needed break from painting, or painter's block, and just leave it at that... If you are in the middle of a depression, just wait this period out. Easy to say, hard to do. But keep those negative critic words away. Don't paint if you can't, it's all OKAY. Give yourself some slack. It's a time of growth. Something positive WILL come out of this period for you, I know it, I have really been there.
> > >
> > > Play guitar, listen to music, go to a local hangout and listen to people play music. Go to some art galleries and museums, try to get yourself out of yourself and enjoy what others have made.
> > >
> > > Give yourself a break. You will get back to your artwork, with the lifting of the depression that the med will give you. Keep looking for the right med if the Celexa doesn't do it, or try a combination of meds. You've only been on the celexa for 2 weeks, give it time...
> > >
> > > You have support here, keep writing to us, that in itself can be very therapeutic.
> > >
> > > :-]
> > > Wendy
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have been an artist and art teacher for many years. Though friends and colleagues have been complimentary about my work (painting) I began to become very critical of my own work and also began to lose enthusiasm for teaching. These feelings and thoughts began to snowball over late spring and summer to the point where I now have stopped painting completely. I begin teaching again in three weeks and am feeling withdrawn. I started celexa two weeks ago and though I am feeling better I still do not wish to paint and dread the idea of going back to work.
> > > >
> > > > I am curious if there are any people out there involved in the arts who have had similar experiences and would like to know if anti-depressants have helped get them back on track. Many people believe that art is a form of therapy but I don't think it works that way for someone who's art is their career.
Posted by mickey on August 10, 2001, at 11:10:35
In reply to Re: Art and depression - Wendy, posted by mickey on August 9, 2001, at 19:38:24
"There is no one to beat you, no one to defeat you, except the thoughts of yourself feeling bad"
From Romona by B. Dylan
These "thoughts", where do they come from? I have analized this peculiarity for many years. I know we weren't born with them. I also realize they have many faces. The obvious source would appear to be our primary care givers. We thus begin to develop and internalize a vision of ourselves. Whatever that vision may be we begin to act out this representation. For some it may be blessings and for others a curse.
For those of us short on blessings but stygmatized by curses it would seem we begin to turn on ourselves. Some people gain inner strenght and can fight off these demons or ghosts. I have studied cognitive therapy for some time and have been focused on the critical parent ego state. What a monster it can be.
And what havoc it can wreak on the child ego state. The only thing that stands between the two is the adult ego state (logical and rational) which in many cases seems to shrink into oblivion.
My therapist suggests that "these thoughts" lower seratonin levels. That cleared some things up for me and makes a great deal of sense regarding Dysthymia (depression as a life style).
It is all terribly fascinating and disturbing at the same time. My therapist has pointed out that if one lacks a powerful nurturing parent ego state then we must invent our own. For me, my father died when I was seven. I have been instructed to create a nurturing father within, or mother, whatever the case may be.
I am sure you all know this stuff but I felt I had to write it out. This is quite a challenge. Do you have any ideas on how to procceed?
"Sometimes I feel like a feather in the wind.
A long way from home"from "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child."
Mickey
Posted by gtbear on August 10, 2001, at 21:01:42
In reply to Re: Art and depression - Wendy +V + All, posted by mickey on August 10, 2001, at 11:10:35
rent "pleasantville". it's a movie about a person who becomes an artist, and the cultural setting.
it's an allegorical tale. stars tobey maguire, jeff daniels, wiliam macy.
Posted by AMenz on August 10, 2001, at 23:49:21
In reply to Re: Art and depression - Wendy +V + All, posted by mickey on August 10, 2001, at 11:10:35
Does it occur to anyone here, that the thoughts that haunt depressives are part and parcel of the disordered mood? Depression in less drastic forms is part of the human condition and must serve an evolutionary purpose. I have to assume depression must have been very adaptive to hominids living in cold climates with cold winters. I can think of nothing better than to load up on carbohydrates, feel like shit, and not move from the cave, and having thoughts of hopelessness overwhelm you should you think of stirring outside.
To me it is more likely that this depressive normal condition becomes a malady when either transplanted to the incorrect social setting (like our 24/7 environment), or when the brain malfunctions and sets up this depressive reaction for no good environmental reason.
Therefore I do not worry about where the thoughts come from, nor think that the thoughts are the depression but a biproduct of it.
I think it is a thorough waste of time to analyze the content of the thoughts and hope thereby to stem the depression. I've been down that path many a time.
Anti depressants, stopping alcohol use, walking vigorously, and meditation have done better by me. A little self talk has helped but not to where I drive myself crazy as some people do in cognitive therapy. For example when depressed I tend to say to myself "I want to die." If I catch myself saying that, I substitute "get better" for "die" which is really what I want.
As for the art, you can do something everyday for a set period, 15 minutes, while giving yourself permission to have it be lousy, thereby turning off that all too ubiquitous censor.
Again of course these are merely opinions of mine. Take them for what they're worth to you, though I do hope it helps.
> "There is no one to beat you, no one to defeat you, except the thoughts of yourself feeling bad"
>
> From Romona by B. Dylan
>
> These "thoughts", where do they come from? I have analized this peculiarity for many years. I know we weren't born with them. I also realize they have many faces. The obvious source would appear to be our primary care givers. We thus begin to develop and internalize a vision of ourselves. Whatever that vision may be we begin to act out this representation. For some it may be blessings and for others a curse.
>
> For those of us short on blessings but stygmatized by curses it would seem we begin to turn on ourselves. Some people gain inner strenght and can fight off these demons or ghosts. I have studied cognitive therapy for some time and have been focused on the critical parent ego state. What a monster it can be.
>
> And what havoc it can wreak on the child ego state. The only thing that stands between the two is the adult ego state (logical and rational) which in many cases seems to shrink into oblivion.
>
> My therapist suggests that "these thoughts" lower seratonin levels. That cleared some things up for me and makes a great deal of sense regarding Dysthymia (depression as a life style).
>
> It is all terribly fascinating and disturbing at the same time. My therapist has pointed out that if one lacks a powerful nurturing parent ego state then we must invent our own. For me, my father died when I was seven. I have been instructed to create a nurturing father within, or mother, whatever the case may be.
>
> I am sure you all know this stuff but I felt I had to write it out. This is quite a challenge. Do you have any ideas on how to procceed?
>
> "Sometimes I feel like a feather in the wind.
> A long way from home"
>
> from "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child."
>
> Mickey
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