![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 12:56:08
In reply to Re: Adrafanil info » JohnL, posted by medlib on August 3, 2001, at 1:33:36
Dearest JohnL,
Thanks very much for all the information. Why, if it works so well do we have to get it out of the country? It's expensive. Do you use it with another antidepressant?
I took 300mgs this morning and I am also taking Effexor XR 375, in hopes to augment my Effexor. The Effexor lifted the anxiety and me dwelling on things. I can tolerate a liar better and not take it to heart. People who lied really bothered me. you know the ones that lie when they do not have to? There is a lot of denial going on out there.
Anywho, I use to take GHB, that I bought at a nutritional supplement store and it worked better than anything ,I did not even have to be on AD. It worked on my depression/anxiety, it helped me sleep too.
Why do the abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us.
E-mail me if you want, this is important to me!
~KL (e-me if you want)
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 14:12:18
In reply to JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too!, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 12:56:08
Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?" Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there. Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?
> Dearest JohnL,
>
> Thanks very much for all the information. Why, if it works so well do we have to get it out of the country? It's expensive. Do you use it with another antidepressant?
>
> I took 300mgs this morning and I am also taking Effexor XR 375, in hopes to augment my Effexor. The Effexor lifted the anxiety and me dwelling on things. I can tolerate a liar better and not take it to heart. People who lied really bothered me. you know the ones that lie when they do not have to? There is a lot of denial going on out there.
>
> Anywho, I use to take GHB, that I bought at a nutritional supplement store and it worked better than anything ,I did not even have to be on AD. It worked on my depression/anxiety, it helped me sleep too.
>
> Why do the abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us.
>
> E-mail me if you want, this is important to me!
>
> ~KL (e-me if you want)
Posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 16:01:25
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too! » gldngodess, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 14:12:18
> Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?" Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there. Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?
>
>
The abusers' were the ones who got it taken off the market.
Instead of using it for threapeutic problems ,like narcolepsy and withdrawling off medication. The teenage kids would mix it with alcohol and "xtc" and go to Rave Clubs and not realize what a dumb mistake they made, after 'bottoming out' and vomiting on themselves, and getting raped with that toxic-cocktail of drugs.
Now, the 'abusers' are soaking tea leaves and marijuana in "embalming fluid" and it gives the same schzoid-psychosis as PCP does and it is usually has PCP in it as well. It causes auditory, visual, and tactile hallucinations.
What differentiates me from an 'abuser' is that I quantitated the doseage I was taking and I never mixed it with alcohol or other drugs.
Secondly, I believe formaldehyde, "emballming fluid", should be strickly used for dead people by morticians.GHB, breaks down in the body to Co2+ H2o, with no caustic side effects. Not even, bruising or bleeding,or anxiety.
I think that is what makes me different!
However, they still use it under prescription and we are doing research with it for sleep disorders, (e.g. Narcolepsy).
Further, I wish you would spit your venomous-disdain at someone else. I am getting tired of it.
I am here just as everybody else is to see if anyone has heard something new or has more revised information.
I am sorry you are having a bad day, but dump on someone else please. :)
Posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 16:48:17
In reply to JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too!, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 12:56:08
> Dearest JohnL,
>
> Thanks very much for all the information. Why, if it works so well do we have to get it out of the country? It's expensive. Do you use it with another antidepressant?
>
> I took 300mgs this morning and I am also taking Effexor XR 375, in hopes to augment my Effexor. The Effexor lifted the anxiety and me dwelling on things. I can tolerate a liar better and not take it to heart. People who lied really bothered me. you know the ones that lie when they do not have to? There is a lot of denial going on out there.
>
> Anywho, I use to take GHB, that I bought at a nutritional supplement store and it worked better than anything ,I did not even have to be on AD. It worked on my depression/anxiety, it helped me sleep too.
>
> Why do the abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us.
>
> E-mail me if you want, this is important to me!
>
> ~KL (e-me if you want)
Posted by JohnL on August 3, 2001, at 18:14:12
In reply to JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too!, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 12:56:08
We have to get it from out of the country because it just never went through the FDA process to get in, which happens to cost millions of dollars and many years. The manufacturer just never did that. You mentioned it being expensive? But it's not. I pay about $25 for a month supply. It is generically priced, which is another reason it will never be FDA approved. The profit potential does not exist for the manufacturer to do that. And what a shame, because it is a wonderful drug, not just for me, but for many others here who have tried it. Yeah there have been some failures, and that makes me sad, but for the most part it has been a very promising drug to many of us who have been around the SSRI/mood stabilizer merrigoround too many times.
> Dearest JohnL,
>
> Thanks very much for all the information. Why, if it works so well do we have to get it out of the country? It's expensive. Do you use it with another antidepressant?
>
> I took 300mgs this morning and I am also taking Effexor XR 375, in hopes to augment my Effexor. The Effexor lifted the anxiety and me dwelling on things. I can tolerate a liar better and not take it to heart. People who lied really bothered me. you know the ones that lie when they do not have to? There is a lot of denial going on out there.
>
> Anywho, I use to take GHB, that I bought at a nutritional supplement store and it worked better than anything ,I did not even have to be on AD. It worked on my depression/anxiety, it helped me sleep too.
>
> Why do the abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us.
>
> E-mail me if you want, this is important to me!
>
> ~KL (e-me if you want)
Posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 18:36:41
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too! » Else, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 16:01:25
Please learn to spell. I don't know what you're talking about.
I thought narcolepsy involved too much sleep. What does GHB have to do with it? Speed would be better, I think (that would be Desoxyn to "non-abusers" like you). GHB is just like booze honey. You can feel as superior as you like, you're still a druggie like the rest of us and you're probably fatter than me (you couldn't possibly be thinner). Go do something sinful to yourself.
> > Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?" Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there. Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?
> >
> >
> The abusers' were the ones who got it taken off the market.
> Instead of using it for threapeutic problems ,like narcolepsy and withdrawling off medication. The teenage kids would mix it with alcohol and "xtc" and go to Rave Clubs and not realize what a dumb mistake they made, after 'bottoming out' and vomiting on themselves, and getting raped with that toxic-cocktail of drugs.
> Now, the 'abusers' are soaking tea leaves and marijuana in "embalming fluid" and it gives the same schzoid-psychosis as PCP does and it is usually has PCP in it as well. It causes auditory, visual, and tactile hallucinations.
> What differentiates me from an 'abuser' is that I quantitated the doseage I was taking and I never mixed it with alcohol or other drugs.
> Secondly, I believe formaldehyde, "emballming fluid", should be strickly used for dead people by morticians.
>
> GHB, breaks down in the body to Co2+ H2o, with no caustic side effects. Not even, bruising or bleeding,or anxiety.
>
> I think that is what makes me different!
>
> However, they still use it under prescription and we are doing research with it for sleep disorders, (e.g. Narcolepsy).
>
> Further, I wish you would spit your venomous-disdain at someone else. I am getting tired of it.
>
> I am here just as everybody else is to see if anyone has heard something new or has more revised information.
>
> I am sorry you are having a bad day, but dump on someone else please. :)
Posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 22:44:49
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too! » gldngodess, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 18:36:41
> Please learn to spell. I don't know what you're talking about.
>
> I thought narcolepsy involved too much sleep. What does GHB have to do with it? Speed would be better, I think (that would be Desoxyn to "non-abusers" like you). GHB is just like booze honey. You can feel as superior as you like, you're still a druggie like the rest of us and you're probably fatter than me (you couldn't possibly be thinner). Go do something sinful to yourself.
>
> > > Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?" Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there. Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?#####That they are, indeed, doing testing with GHB on Narcoleptics under the name of "Xyrem". He or she seems very confused.
Thank you so much!
> The abusers' were the ones who got it taken off the market.
> > Instead of using it for threapeutic problems ,like narcolepsy and withdrawling off medication. The teenage kids would mix it with alcohol and "xtc" and go to Rave Clubs and not realize what a dumb mistake they made, after 'bottoming out' and vomiting on themselves, and getting raped with that toxic-cocktail of drugs.
> > Now, the 'abusers' are soaking tea leaves and marijuana in "embalming fluid" and it gives the same schzoid-psychosis as PCP does and it is usually has PCP in it as well. It causes auditory, visual, and tactile hallucinations.
> > What differentiates me from an 'abuser' is that I quantitated the doseage I was taking and I never mixed it with alcohol or other drugs.
> > Secondly, I believe formaldehyde, "emballming fluid", should be strickly used for dead people by morticians.
> >
> > GHB, breaks down in the body to Co2+ H2o, with no caustic side effects. Not even, bruising or bleeding,or anxiety.
> >
> > I think that is what makes me different!
> >
> > However, they still use it under prescription and we are doing research with it for sleep disorders, (e.g. Narcolepsy).
> >
> > Further, I wish you would spit your venomous-disdain at someone else. I am getting tired of it.
> >
> > I am here just as everybody else is to see if anyone has heard something new or has more revised information.
> >
> > I am sorry you are having a bad day, but dump on someone else please. :)
Posted by Zo on August 3, 2001, at 22:56:05
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too! » gldngodess, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 14:12:18
> Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?" Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there. Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?
I told you, this is a test. We must remain Civil.:) Zo
Posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2001, at 23:21:59
In reply to Dr. Bob please confirm to else'bout GHB4Narcolepsy » Else, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 22:44:49
gg - I have a lengthy journal article at work on GHB. I cannot remember all of the details, but I do know that there have been some sudden deaths from it. Since it is no longer legal, there will be problems with obtaining a correct dosage due to the adulterants that are commonly added.
Also, I believe that GHB has been known to cause seizures and comas when mixed with methamphetamine and nausea, breathing problems, and unconsciousness (leading to it's date rate status) when mixed with alcohol.
Also, GHB and two of it's precursors have been implicated in date rapes, overdoses, poisonings and deaths. Overdoses of GHB occur more commonly than with other club drugs.
GHB also can cause withdrawl effects including insomnia, anxiety, tremors, and sweating.
This is all I can remember at the moment, as I haven't read the paper since April. If you repost on Tuesday, when I return to work, I will go through the paper and give you more accurate and detailed information.
I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by jotho on August 4, 2001, at 8:02:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob please confirm to else'bout GHB4Narcolepsy » gldngodess, posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2001, at 23:21:59
One of many sites with extensive information, and further links, about GHB, and what I consider to be a very mislabeled and wrongly disparaged chemical:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb.shtml
Posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 9:16:14
In reply to Dr. Bob please confirm to else'bout GHB4Narcolepsy » Else, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 22:44:49
I hope JohnL recommends Zyprexa for you.
> > Please learn to spell. I don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> > I thought narcolepsy involved too much sleep. What does GHB have to do with it? Speed would be better, I think (that would be Desoxyn to "non-abusers" like you). GHB is just like booze honey. You can feel as superior as you like, you're still a druggie like the rest of us and you're probably fatter than me (you couldn't possibly be thinner). Go do something sinful to yourself.
> >
> > > > Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?" Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there. Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #####That they are, indeed, doing testing with GHB on Narcoleptics under the name of "Xyrem". He or she seems very confused.
>
> Thank you so much!
>
> > The abusers' were the ones who got it taken off the market.
> > > Instead of using it for threapeutic problems ,like narcolepsy and withdrawling off medication. The teenage kids would mix it with alcohol and "xtc" and go to Rave Clubs and not realize what a dumb mistake they made, after 'bottoming out' and vomiting on themselves, and getting raped with that toxic-cocktail of drugs.
> > > Now, the 'abusers' are soaking tea leaves and marijuana in "embalming fluid" and it gives the same schzoid-psychosis as PCP does and it is usually has PCP in it as well. It causes auditory, visual, and tactile hallucinations.
> > > What differentiates me from an 'abuser' is that I quantitated the doseage I was taking and I never mixed it with alcohol or other drugs.
> > > Secondly, I believe formaldehyde, "emballming fluid", should be strickly used for dead people by morticians.
> > >
> > > GHB, breaks down in the body to Co2+ H2o, with no caustic side effects. Not even, bruising or bleeding,or anxiety.
> > >
> > > I think that is what makes me different!
> > >
> > > However, they still use it under prescription and we are doing research with it for sleep disorders, (e.g. Narcolepsy).
> > >
> > > Further, I wish you would spit your venomous-disdain at someone else. I am getting tired of it.
> > >
> > > I am here just as everybody else is to see if anyone has heard something new or has more revised information.
> > >
> > > I am sorry you are having a bad day, but dump on someone else please. :)
Posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 13:17:08
In reply to JohnLe-mail me,I am tired of vendictive remarksGEE » gldngodess, posted by gldngodess on August 3, 2001, at 16:48:17
I'm sorry, I didn't know you were narcoleptic (I guess you failed to mention that). I thought you were just a suburban junkie.
*There's this one song that come to mind when I think of you: "You're so deranged, don't need a shrink but an exorcist" ("Born of Frustration", by James)*
> > Dearest JohnL,
> >
> > Thanks very much for all the information. Why, if it works so well do we have to get it out of the country? It's expensive. Do you use it with another antidepressant?
> >
> > I took 300mgs this morning and I am also taking Effexor XR 375, in hopes to augment my Effexor. The Effexor lifted the anxiety and me dwelling on things. I can tolerate a liar better and not take it to heart. People who lied really bothered me. you know the ones that lie when they do not have to? There is a lot of denial going on out there.
> >
> > Anywho, I use to take GHB, that I bought at a nutritional supplement store and it worked better than anything ,I did not even have to be on AD. It worked on my depression/anxiety, it helped me sleep too.
> >
> > Why do the abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us.
> >
> > E-mail me if you want, this is important to me!
> >
> > ~KL (e-me if you want)
Posted by gldngodess on August 4, 2001, at 18:08:26
In reply to Re: JohnLe-mail me,I am tired of vendictive remarksGEE » gldngodess, posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 13:17:08
> I'm sorry, I didn't know you were narcoleptic (I guess you failed to mention that). I thought you were just a suburban junkie.
>
> *There's this one song that come to mind when I think of you: "You're so deranged, don't need a shrink but an exorcist" ("Born of Frustration", by James)*
>
>
Narcolepsy, ADHD & GHB
Posted by Scott P. on April 21, 2000 at 00:12:57:
In Reply to: Re: Narcolepsy, ADHD & Mis-Diagnosis posted by Merrill on April 14, 2000 at 09:55:55:It's a damn shame GHB was outlawed. Up until about 1990, GHB could be legally bought over the counter in health food stores. Instead of using Ritalin, Dexedrine and other amphetamines to artificially keep someone awake, GHB does what no other sleeping medication can do, not Ambien, Halcion, Remeron, Sonata, or any other currently available sleeping medication can do: It puts a person into the deep restorative stage 4 sleep that so many narcoleptics and ADHD sufferers are not getting, therefore they stay awake naturally the next day.
But the problem with GHB is that it works TOO good. It knocks a person out so hard they cannot be woken up until the drug is eliminated from the body, therefore it has become the "Mickey" of choice among party-goers. By itself, GHB, when properly prepared by a licensed pharmaceutical company using high purity ingredients and tight controls, is no more toxic than any other sleeping medication, but mixing GHB with alcohol is very dangerous, because just like mixing alcohol with Valium, a person is sedated so deep they forget to breathe and therefore suffocate to death. It was because of these poisonings and numerous date rapes that GHB was outlawed.
Now that GHB is outlawed, people are making GHB clones in basement or kitchen labs, using industrial solvents, which often have additives and impurities in them which are toxic. Also, there is no quality control in a homebrew lab, therefore the chemicals can be improperly reacted, leaving behind excess precursor chemicals. On top of that, there is no dosage information nor contraindications available with any illegal street drugs, therefore many people overdose and die from drinking homebrew toxic GHB clones.
So what could have been a potentially beneficial treatment for narcolepsy and ADHD is now so badly demonized by the popular media that it was recently placed right up there on the DEA list of Schedule I drugs alongside heroin and cocaine, never mind the fact that GHB is still legal in Europe and has been studied over there for many years to treat narcolepsy and ADHD.
One glimmer of hope is a company called Orphan Pharmaceuticals that realizes the benefits of GHB on narcolepsy sufferers and is doing tests to once again get GHB approved by the FDA. More info at
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/GHB/xyrem.html
Follow Ups:
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Posted by gldngodess on August 4, 2001, at 19:08:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob please confirm to else'bout GHB4Narcolepsy » gldngodess, posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2001, at 23:21:59
> gg - I have a lengthy journal article at work on GHB. I cannot remember all of the details, but I do know that there have been some sudden deaths from it. Since it is no longer legal, there will be problems with obtaining a correct dosage due to the adulterants that are commonly added.
>
> Also, I believe that GHB has been known to cause seizures and comas when mixed with methamphetamine and nausea, breathing problems, and unconsciousness (leading to it's date rate status) when mixed with alcohol.
>
> Also, GHB and two of it's precursors have been implicated in date rapes, overdoses, poisonings and deaths. Overdoses of GHB occur more commonly than with other club drugs.
****
THAT IS WHEN IT'S MIXED WITH OTHER SUBSTANCES, as with any drug(E.G. PHENOBARBITAL AND ALCOHOL).**********> GHB also can cause withdrawl effects including insomnia, anxiety, tremors, and sweating.
OH, LIKE EFFEXOR AND PAXIL,PROZAC MOST SSRI'S,SNRI'S?***
Erowid is the worst resource place to obtain any credible information. That dude is into some meesed up stuff, illegal combinations that induce Neurotoxic reactions. He really loves MDMA alot too, and tells us how to make it at home.
I am only interested in pharmaceutically pure substances that are not "bootlegged" with other substances like you've mentioned above(mixing with methamphetimines,alcohol etc.).Check this out please with and open mind. Adrafinil is made by an Orphan Company somewhere in France I think. Many people seem to be having positive results from that drug, but they have to get it out of the country, Why?
Below is just one of many journals written by very credible 'professional' references that I know personally. In fact, the whole site is dedicated to REAL Research, not a street drug user's tips on how to "trip" well and effectively(Erowid).
Also, this is far far from me trying to agree with those people on "chemo" using marijuana and pushing the issue.Please Read With Open Rational Mind.
Research in Neuropharmacology, we are taught to look at things objectively and not formulate any opinions until the research is completed with QA testing and re-testing, right?
Below as follows:
Dumb on Drugs
How the Food and Drug Administration has transformed over-the-counter gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) into a deadly underground date rape drugGamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) may be an "anti-rape" drug.
GHB is one of the few apparent success stories in the recent history of narcoleptic drug treatments. It has been extensively studied with some individuals having used the drug to control cataplexy, a symptom of narcolepsy, with good results for over 14 years.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has misled the general public, state authorities and elected officials, contributed to creation of misleading television programs and news articles, intimidated pharmacies to such an extent that some now refuse to fill legal prescriptions for GHB, and encouraged passage of ill-considered state legislation which restricts legitimate patient access, impedes research, and is likely to increase costs if GHB ever receives approval for marketing as a treatment for narcolepsy.
Some news reports have referred to GHB as a "date rape" drug. That label has been used by proponents of legislation limiting availability. However, restricted availability may be increasing the dangers of rape for some women by limiting the development and availability of treatment.
GHB is known to provide effective control of cataplexy, the symptom of narcolepsy in which the very emotions a victim might experience during an attempted rape may trigger a sudden loss of muscle control lasting for several minutes or even longer. Thus, a women who has narcolepsy may be unable to resist a rapist's assault without effective treatment.
.
Full text for Dumb on Drugs is available online. *
Also see Narcolepsy & Sleep Disorders: 1995, 1 (4): 10; and 1996, 2 (2): 5; & 2 (3): 10-14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return/GoTo: Narcolepsy & Sleep Disorders Home Page
Posted by gldngodess on August 4, 2001, at 19:15:36
In reply to GHB...some further insight » Cam W., posted by jotho on August 4, 2001, at 8:02:57
> One of many sites with extensive information, and further links, about GHB, and what I consider to be a very mislabeled and wrongly disparaged chemical:
> http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb.shtmlDumb on Drugs
How the Food and Drug Administration has transformed over-the-counter gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) into a deadly underground date rape drugGamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) may be an "anti-rape" drug.
GHB is one of the few apparent success stories in the recent history of narcoleptic drug treatments. It has been extensively studied with some individuals having used the drug to control cataplexy, a symptom of narcolepsy, with good results for over 14 years.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has misled the general public, state authorities and elected officials, contributed to creation of misleading television programs and news articles, intimidated pharmacies to such an extent that some now refuse to fill legal prescriptions for GHB, and encouraged passage of ill-considered state legislation which restricts legitimate patient access, impedes research, and is likely to increase costs if GHB ever receives approval for marketing as a treatment for narcolepsy.
Some news reports have referred to GHB as a "date rape" drug. That label has been used by proponents of legislation limiting availability. However, restricted availability may be increasing the dangers of rape for some women by limiting the development and availability of treatment.
GHB is known to provide effective control of cataplexy, the symptom of narcolepsy in which the very emotions a victim might experience during an attempted rape may trigger a sudden loss of muscle control lasting for several minutes or even longer. Thus, a women who has narcolepsy may be unable to resist a rapist's assault without effective treatment.
.
Full text for Dumb on Drugs is available online. *
Also see Narcolepsy & Sleep Disorders: 1995, 1 (4): 10; and 1996, 2 (2): 5; & 2 (3): 10-14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return/GoTo: Narcolepsy & Sleep Disorders Home Page
Posted by nutsy on August 4, 2001, at 19:35:19
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too! » gldngodess, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 14:12:18
> Did you actually say "Why do abusers have to ruin it for the rest of us?"
Yes, he did.
Who do you think you are? GHB is OK for you because you're an upstanding citizen, but not for those bums out there.
Sounds about right.
Define abuser. What differentiates you from them?
Its the punk idiots who put it in someone else's drink.
Can you honestly not know the definition of abuser?
Posted by Cam W. on August 4, 2001, at 19:45:23
In reply to Cam..Erowid's 'street-drug info' isn't right! ... » Cam W., posted by gldngodess on August 4, 2001, at 19:08:57
gg - I know all about erowid's info, and their statements do not make it into my files. I do find what they have to say curiously amusing, though.
I do not look at any drug (chemical, food, herb, nutritional supplement, etc.) as good or bad. Objective evidence comes from experiments using the scientific method, and it must be implicitly acknowledged that any evidence that is found, is subject to modification or change.
Subjective experience may be a beginning point that can be used to develop methods of finding objective evidence; but alone, subjective experience must be viewed with the utmost caution (more so than objective evidence from a well planned and executed research experiment).
Too many people look at drugs (et al) as either being black (bad) or white (bad), because it is in our nature (and is much easier) to compartmentalize and store, as information. Many do not want to, or have the time to, listen to all the angles being presented on both sides of any debate over drugs; to realize that with the good comes bad and with the bad comes good.
Even my use of the words "good" and "bad" are extremely subjective. Nothing is good nor bad in itself, but in one's perception. For example, a side effect of one medication is the mechanism of action of another. A simple case in point is Desyrel™ (trazodone). It was originally approved as an antidepressant, but at antidepressant doses it caused profound sedation that many people could not tolerate. Now Desyrel is used (at about one-tenth the dose) as a relatively safe and effective hypnotic (sleeping pill).
I try to see all substances that we put into our body to elicit a change in body functioning as drugs (including foods - prunes, for instance). Therefore, I do not see any black or white issues when I think about drugs, only shades of grey. Saying this, I do find myself sometimes slipping to the white or the black side of a drug debate, but I am getting better at deciding when it is appropriate to do this. It is not always easy to remain impartial < VBG >, it is vital in order to progress from subjective experience to objective evidence.
Just some random thoughts. - Cam
Posted by Elizabeth on August 4, 2001, at 23:31:15
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know too! » gldngodess, posted by Else on August 3, 2001, at 18:36:41
> I thought narcolepsy involved too much sleep. What does GHB have to do with it?
Narcolepsy is not hypersomnia. People with narcolepsy have attacks of REM sleep during the daytime. The attacks are often triggered by strong emotions.
REM-suppressing drugs (for example, MAOIs, amphetamine, and some tricyclics) are the main treatments for narcolepsy at present. GHB has stabilising effects on REM sleep and prevents the intrusion of REM sleep upon waking states.
GHB may also be useful for other sleep disorders. I would be very curious to see what effect it would have on my peculiar problem (currently under control with desipramine + clonazepam).
Like some other so-called "drugs of abuse," GHB is an endogenous drug: it occurs naturally in the human body (it's closely related to GABA). This would seem to make its Schedule I status rather problematic.
-elizabeth
Posted by Ant-Rock on August 5, 2001, at 14:27:18
In reply to GHB and narcolepsy » Else, posted by Elizabeth on August 4, 2001, at 23:31:15
> > I thought narcolepsy involved too much sleep. What does GHB have to do with it?
>
> Narcolepsy is not hypersomnia. People with narcolepsy have attacks of REM sleep during the daytime. The attacks are often triggered by strong emotions.
>
> REM-suppressing drugs (for example, MAOIs, amphetamine, and some tricyclics) are the main treatments for narcolepsy at present. GHB has stabilising effects on REM sleep and prevents the intrusion of REM sleep upon waking states.
>
> GHB may also be useful for other sleep disorders. I would be very curious to see what effect it would have on my peculiar problem (currently under control with desipramine + clonazepam).
>
> Like some other so-called "drugs of abuse," GHB is an endogenous drug: it occurs naturally in the human body (it's closely related to GABA). This would seem to make its Schedule I status rather problematic.
>
> -elizabethHi Elizabeth,
I was wondering if GHB could be used in conjunction with an MAO, specifically to alleviate the daytime drowsiness I experience on parnate. Or would the same Cocaine precautions be pertinent regarding these substances. I doubt if studies have ever been done, so I was just hoping for some pharmacology insight.
Thank you for any information you can provide.anthony
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2001, at 20:19:47
In reply to Re: JohnLplease help me with this, you might know » Else, posted by Zo on August 3, 2001, at 22:56:05
> I told you, this is a test. We must remain Civil.
It did turn out to be a test, but it wasn't my idea...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010804/msgs/73705.html
Bob
Posted by Elizabeth on August 5, 2001, at 21:26:56
In reply to Re: GHB and narcolepsy » Elizabeth, posted by Ant-Rock on August 5, 2001, at 14:27:18
> I was wondering if GHB could be used in conjunction with an MAO, specifically to alleviate the daytime drowsiness I experience on parnate.
GHB isn't a stimulant. It would probably be safe to use it with MAO inhibitors (although I'm not absolutely certain), but I don't think it's a good thing to use in the daytime. Used at bedtime, it might help alleviate MAOI-induced insomnia.
I hope this helps.
-elizabeth
Posted by grendel on August 6, 2001, at 20:59:04
In reply to Re: GHB and narcolepsy » Ant-Rock, posted by Elizabeth on August 5, 2001, at 21:26:56
> > I was wondering if GHB could be used in conjunction with an MAO, specifically to alleviate the daytime drowsiness I experience on parnate.
>
> GHB isn't a stimulant. It would probably be safe to use it with MAO inhibitors (although I'm not absolutely certain), but I don't think it's a good thing to use in the daytime. Used at bedtime, it might help alleviate MAOI-induced insomnia.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> -elizabethOddly, GBL ( precursor to GBH) kept me up all night with clenched jaw. It wasn't unpleasant, exactly, but I couldn't sleep without a Klonopin. It's too bad, because I LOVED the pro-social and antidepressant qualities of the drug. If I could only sleep with it, I'd be a prefectly happy, normally functioning human.
I assume the dopamine pooling in the synapses are what gets me wired - I just can't figure out why it has to be ME that gets this damn reaction. Just when I thought I found the grail...
Posted by Stephen12 on September 27, 2014, at 10:49:36
In reply to Re: Here's a bunch of stuff all about Adrafinil, posted by JohnL on August 2, 2001, at 5:46:03
What do people think of this product?: https://www.absorbyourhealth.com/product/adrafinil-300-mg-30-70-100-150-capsules-nootropic/
To be trusted?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on September 27, 2014, at 17:52:42
In reply to Adrafinil, posted by Stephen12 on September 27, 2014, at 12:24:27
yea it could work, but i think it said on the bottle vegitatian capule....but if there saying it's andrafinil maybe ... but you gotta watch out for these sites
adrafinil is similar to provigil but it has a little more side effects......i read....
my suggestion yea get it and see how it works, it looks legal, but ... like i said adra has more side effects......
go for it
Posted by rjlockhart37 on September 27, 2014, at 17:54:15
In reply to Adrafinil, posted by Stephen12 on September 27, 2014, at 12:24:27
well let me take that back....it does work vary well, just an older version of provigil
This is the end of the thread.
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