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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stjames on June 12, 2001, at 1:35:42
JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS
Novartis AG on Friday said that a district judge in Texas has dismissed claims that the pharmaceuticals company conspired with psychiatrists to overprescribe its anti-hyperactivity drug Ritalin.
http://psychiatry.medscape.com/38092.rhtml?srcmp=psy-052501
Posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:51:47
In reply to JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS, posted by stjames on June 12, 2001, at 1:35:42
> JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS
>
> Novartis AG on Friday said that a district judge in Texas has dismissed claims that the pharmaceuticals company conspired with psychiatrists to overprescribe its anti-hyperactivity drug Ritalin.
> http://psychiatry.medscape.com/38092.rhtml?srcmp=psy-052501^^^^^^^^^^^^
It might be interesting to look into this judge's stock portfolio.
(a suspicious) kazoo
Posted by Elizabeth on June 12, 2001, at 22:49:09
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS » stjames, posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:51:47
> It might be interesting to look into this judge's stock portfolio.
I think the judge made the right decision even if he does have a financial interest (although if he does, he should have recused humself from the case). This was a pretty blatant case of a frivolous lawsuit.
-elizabeth
Posted by stjames on June 13, 2001, at 0:09:15
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS » stjames, posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:51:47
> It might be interesting to look into this judge's stock portfolio.
> (a suspicious) kazoo
James here....A judge would at the very least have to disclose this fact (holding stock) to both parties and most likely would not take the case. Anyway, had you read the link you would know that the same case has failed elsewhere, in several courts.
Watch out, kazoo, "they" are out to get you.
James
Posted by kazoo on June 13, 2001, at 0:40:25
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS, posted by stjames on June 13, 2001, at 0:09:15
> Watch out, kazoo, "they" are out to get you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And they can have me, hands down, since nobody else will, darn it!(sniff, sniff)kazoo
Posted by Ron Hill on June 13, 2001, at 10:27:17
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS » stjames, posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:51:47
Kazoo,
Better to be a "suspicious Kazoo" than a "naive Kazoo".
-- Ron
PS I like your sense of humor!
----------------------------------------> > JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS
> >
> > Novartis AG on Friday said that a district judge in Texas has dismissed claims that the pharmaceuticals company conspired with psychiatrists to overprescribe its anti-hyperactivity drug Ritalin.
> > http://psychiatry.medscape.com/38092.rhtml?srcmp=psy-052501
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> It might be interesting to look into this judge's stock portfolio.
> (a suspicious) kazoo
Posted by AMenz on June 14, 2001, at 10:12:12
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS » stjames, posted by kazoo on June 12, 2001, at 18:51:47
I am not surprised. Psychiatrists are virtually immune from lawsuits unless the damages inflicted by the mis-medication turn out to be physical. Eg, suicide, tardive dyskenesia at least in Florida.
You would have to prove that ADD is not a valid diagnostic criteria, or that it is so vague that it is impossible to apply. Since all psychiatric illnesses are defined by symptoms (not by physical tests), how are you going to prove that children with certain symptoms don't have ADD.
Yet I know at the bottom of my gut that children are being prescribed Ritalin to make deviant behavior fit within a classroom setting, and if a parent I would vigorously oppose psychiatric medication for a child whose brain is still forming and where the long term effects of these drugs are unknown.
I remember being hyperactive as a child, but I grew up in an atmosphere where a lot of deviance from the norm was tolerated in terms of activity, talking etc. No one ever labelled me hyperactive and teachers, parents etc were willing to deal with a somewhat hyperactive child. Nor did they penalize me academically for conduct related incidents. I got A's in my academic subjects so long as I passed tests and finals (no demerits for no homework) and D's in my conduct mark.
I saw my child wind up in a severe depression which required immediate intervention over a similar episode in a private school here. Also the grading system which included awarding zero's for behavioral as opposed to academic failings, eg, being late, missing class, not doing homework or not turning it in. This immediately lowers academic performance further deteriorating child's self esteem
> > JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS
> >
> > Novartis AG on Friday said that a district judge in Texas has dismissed claims that the pharmaceuticals company conspired with psychiatrists to overprescribe its anti-hyperactivity drug Ritalin.
> > http://psychiatry.medscape.com/38092.rhtml?srcmp=psy-052501
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> It might be interesting to look into this judge's stock portfolio.
> (a suspicious) kazoo
Posted by Elizabeth on June 14, 2001, at 14:00:32
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS, posted by AMenz on June 14, 2001, at 10:12:12
> Yet I know at the bottom of my gut that children are being prescribed Ritalin to make deviant behavior fit within a classroom setting, and if a parent I would vigorously oppose psychiatric medication for a child whose brain is still forming and where the long term effects of these drugs are unknown.
I agree that Ritalin is probably sometimes misused to make children easier to manage, rather than for the child's good. But it's a very safe drug, it's been around for a long time, and the long-term effects are well-established. I'd be more cautious about antidepressants (or clonidine, another drug that's often used as a substitute for stimulants when a psychiatrist doesn't want to prescribe a controlled substance). On the other hand, early-onset depression is underrecognised and is probably sometimes misdiagnosed as ADD.
> Nor did they penalize me academically for conduct related incidents. I got A's in my academic subjects so long as I passed tests and finals (no demerits for no homework) and D's in my conduct mark.
They gave letter grades for "conduct?" Jeez. When I was in early grade school, conduct (or some equivalent category) was graded as either satisfactory or non-satisfactory (and the category didn't even exist past second grade or so). Grading kids on "conduct" is no less than outrageous -- especially with the stigma that already exists against taking medication that some kids with "conduct problems" most likely need.
-elizabeth
Posted by AMenz on June 15, 2001, at 23:31:01
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS » AMenz, posted by Elizabeth on June 14, 2001, at 14:00:32
Finally!! Somebody responds to one of my posts. Keept it coming. Whichever way you take my comments is fine. By that I mean, I'm not afraid of controversy. Enjoy the fact that you can be provocative and are not afraid to state your views.
> > Yet I know at the bottom of my gut that children are being prescribed Ritalin to make deviant behavior fit within a classroom setting, and if a parent I would vigorously oppose psychiatric medication for a child whose brain is still forming and where the long term effects of these drugs are unknown.
>
> I agree that Ritalin is probably sometimes misused to make children easier to manage, rather than for the child's good. But it's a very safe drug, it's been around for a long time, and the long-term effects are well-established. I'd be more cautious about antidepressants (or clonidine, another drug that's often used as a substitute for stimulants when a psychiatrist doesn't want to prescribe a controlled substance). On the other hand, early-onset depression is underrecognised and is probably sometimes misdiagnosed as ADD.
>
> > Nor did they penalize me academically for conduct related incidents. I got A's in my academic subjects so long as I passed tests and finals (no demerits for no homework) and D's in my conduct mark.
>
> They gave letter grades for "conduct?" Jeez. When I was in early grade school, conduct (or some equivalent category) was graded as either satisfactory or non-satisfactory (and the category didn't even exist past second grade or so). Grading kids on "conduct" is no less than outrageous -- especially with the stigma that already exists against taking medication that some kids with "conduct problems" most likely need.
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by paulk on June 16, 2001, at 13:49:11
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS, posted by AMenz on June 14, 2001, at 10:12:12
> … Psychiatrists are virtually immune from lawsuits unless the damages inflicted by the mis-medication turn out to be physical. Eg, suicide, tardive dyskenesia at least in Florida.
What do you base this on? You should see how much of the money goes for malpractice insurance (and then on to lawyers). The real problem is, many pdocs are so timid and afraid of getting sued that they don’t do what they think is best for the patient. It goes like this –
1. Will this treatment get me in trouble for prescribing this med by the FDA or State Med board?
2. Will I be exposed to possible malpractice suit?
3. Will the school stop sending cases to me if I don’t prescribe Ritalin?
4. Is this what the parents want?
5. Will it be the best for the patient?
In that order.
While Ritalin is over prescribed, it is a wonder drug for those who truly need it and thankfully doesn’t seem to be hurting the kids that are on it because they are acting like rowdy children.
I think the real scandal is the school teachers that see it as the “easy way’ to deal with a rowdy kid. I really just don’t think that the teachers and school councilors have had enough training to diagnose ADD. What happens is they make a report listing the criteria to diagnose ADD , send it and the kid to a willing psy-doc – who uses just that information to make a diagnose.
What they need to do is give the kid some work to do at the psy-doc’s office, and see if he can sit still to do it. This of course takes time and is work for the psy-doc so it is avoided.
In some places the teachers might as well be writing the prescriptions.
Posted by Willow on June 16, 2001, at 21:29:57
In reply to Re: JUDGE DISMISSES RITALIN LAWSUIT AGAINST NOVARTIS, posted by paulk on June 16, 2001, at 13:49:11
> In some places the teachers might as well be writing the prescriptions.My brother's friend's son was put on ritalin because the teacher was having problems. He got seizures from the medication. He didn't have problems at home. I believe that there should be better help for children than just a pill. Yes some children need it, I've seen it make an incredible difference in another child's life. But when it's a clash between personalities the child loses.
Willow
This is the end of the thread.
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