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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Iden on September 12, 2000, at 18:30:38
In reply to Re: Serzone , posted by Mary Jane M on September 12, 2000, at 0:30:17
Posted by Mary Jane M on September 12, 2000, at 0:30:17
Can anyone please share their experiences with any of following side effects of serzone?
*My comments all start with *.
*I started on Serzone on May 17th while tapering off Prozac. I started at a rather low dose for two reasons. The first being that I have been very sensitive to all the antidepressants I have tried. As an example, I could tolerate up to about 10 mg / day of Prozac. That dose helped keep me from going into a bad depression but it wasn't enough to really kick the depression. The other reason for starting Serzone at a low dose was that some have posted here that Serzone is best started low and then with slow dose increases.
*I started at 25 mg once a day. Even that dose knocked me for a loop. By July 27th, I had worked myself up to 125 mg twice a day. The side effects were unpleasant to say the least -- grogginess - wooziness. The cure was worse than the depression at that point. I was hoping the side effects would diminish over time but they did not. I was at that dose for 15 days. I then dropped back to 100 mg in the morning and evening. In three days I started to feel better -- side-effect-wise. Underneath all the side effects it seemed like the depression was improved.
*On August 27th, I dropped to 75 mg in the morning and 100 in the evening and then started feeling better -- more productive and optimistic. A few days ago, I dropped to 75 mg morning and evening. No real improvement with the grogginess this time. On the evening of the 8th, I forgot to take my dose and the next morning I was motivated, optimistic, and more interested in things than in a long time. Coincidence? I plan to stay at the 75 mg morning and evening for a total of 2 weeks to see how it settles out and then will probably drop to 50 in the morning and 75 in the evening.
*The point to this is that I am looking for a dose that I can tolerate and will hopefully help the depression. I believe in giving each med a real chance rather than just giving up after a few weeks. Maybe Serzone isn't for me but maybe it will work at a lower dose. Remember that I am sensitive to these drugs and what I say is just one person's experience. We are all different.
Does it cause weight gain or increased appetite?
*No weight change so far. No appetite change so far. Alcohol seems to hit me harder and in an unpleasant way -- but not being much of a drinker, I avoid alcohol now for the most part.
Does it help you go to sleep easily (within 30 minutes)?
*My fall-asleep time has been good for several years. No change.
Do you get into deep REM sleep?
*What I can report is that my dreams are more detailed and intense. My sleep seems sounder with few or no wake-ups.
Are you groggy the next morning?
*I am groggy and a bit slower-thinking most all the time in varying degrees and absolutely attributable to Serzone.
Does it help with panic and anxiety?
*I don't have panic problems. I always run with some anxiety and have experienced no change with Serzone. The exception is that caffeine + Serzone makes me quite irritable and emotionally reactive. I am not much of a caffeine user so now avoid caffeine.
Does it cause any shaking or tremors?
*No.
Is libido improved (from being on paxil)?
*Not really but others report otherwise -- I was hoping, after years of Prozac. Sensation is improved. Less difficulty having an orgasm.
I am looking for a "miracle"drug to help with all the side effects
I'm having form other stuff.*You too????
Iden -- male 60
Posted by MarkinBoston on September 21, 2000, at 17:07:36
In reply to Re: Serzone / My experience, posted by Iden on September 12, 2000, at 18:30:38
I just started 50mg bid three days ago. My doc wanted me to take Serzone in the evening and Effexor XR in the AM, for three reasons: Effexor has worked for my major episodes in the past and I would eventually stop taking it due to sweating, inorgasmia, and demotivation, and it was doing nothing for my dysthymic anhedonia. Second, she has not had much success with her patients with Serzone. Lastly, Effexor is a bit speedy for me and Serzone a little sedating. SSRI's don't work for me, and I'd only want to take a safe MAOI like moclobromide, which isn't FDA approved. Welbutrin gives me flu-like symptoms.
I however knew what Effexor was like and never tried Serzone before, so I'm starting up with it and planning to increase the eve. dose, possibly using Effexor or Ritalin/w Serzone in the AM to offset the sominance. While some of my doc's pts. have used Ritalin with Effexor, i'm totally agitated and irritable. I've not tried T3 instead of Ritilin yet.
I don't dream when off meds, and after just the 2nd night on Serzone I had a very pleasant sexual dream. My libido has been nil for quite a while, with the exception of a recent course of testosterone hormone replacement therapy (which did make me feel much better and less depressed). The libido disappeared after I stopped the testosterone, but my blood pressure came down to normal. Withdrawing from testosterone was hell and I have a new appreciation of womens' PMS. I later found that steroid using bodybuilders take Clomid to prevent those crashes - endocrinologists arn't as up on these things as muscleheads apparently. The other reason I stopped was due to my excess fat, extra aromatization of testosterone into estrogen was occuring and making me really moody, depressed, weepy, and generally feeling like a big mess. Muscleheads take Arimidex or Tamoxifen to combat that, but endocrinologists arn't up on that either. Nevertheless, I came out of all of it feeling better so there is some possible carry-over into the positive side effects/feelings I'm getting on Serzone.
One MEDline paper suggests that Serzone resulted in a surge of human Growth Hormone after injestion. That's a good thing. GH supports healthy lean tissue growth/replacement and tends to decrease bodyfat. I think I'm experiencing some of that, though it could be a 4 week ago residual effect from testosterone therapy.
Last night I had another dream, positive, but not sexual. Unfortunately I did wake at 4am.
My appitite is still low, though that and the early wakenings have been symptomatic of my current depressive episode.
So, I'm quite encouraged by the little bit of experience I've had with Serzone so far. I plan to keep up blood work hoping to see my cortisol and estrogen go down and free testosterone go up.
Melancholic depression usually correlates with elevated cortisol levels (day and night) and I'm no longer going to tollerate the long-term consequences of fat gain, immune depression, and low libido. Libido is a prime goal of mine. What better motivation to lose weight?!
Posted by noa on September 24, 2000, at 14:21:03
In reply to Re: Serzone / My brief experience, posted by MarkinBoston on September 21, 2000, at 17:07:36
Mark, I am on the serzone/effexor combo, too, and it works pretty well for me. These two sort of balance each other out . I take 300 mg serzone at 6 pm-ish, and 300 effexor xr in the morning. I also take ritalin, which I think helps but is not an Essential component of my cocktail, and I take synthroid and cytomel, both of which are very definitely major players in controlling my depression, as I have hypothyroid.
The serzone counters the insomnia and restlessness and agitation of the effexor. Together they provide sufficient antidepressent effect. The serzone is somewhat sedating, but not overwhelmingly so. If I take it at 6, I can fall asleep at 10. I first tried taking it before bedtime, but that didn't work. I couldn't fall asleep for a long time, and then was still groggy in the morning.
One issue with serzone for me (and I've read others' similar accounts here) is that there are INITIAL effects that are very bothersome, like emotional lability, rage, grogginess, and balance/coordination problems. BUT, all of these went away after 3-4 weeks.
Good luck, I hope the combo continues to work for you.
Posted by Jo on September 27, 2000, at 19:07:26
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by yona on July 23, 2000, at 6:26:08
I just found this message board today! I also started Serzone today. It is the first medication I've been prescribed, after begging my doctor for something to help me cope. I have been diagnosed with Lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, at the fresh age of 30- just when I have begun to realize all my dreams and life goals.
I really appreciate all of your opinions. I have a graduate background in psychology and human ecology, and I was afraid to even talk to my colleagues about having to ask for an anti-depressant.
Posted by noa on October 8, 2000, at 10:20:49
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jo on September 27, 2000, at 19:07:26
I have added a lot of links to the serzone folder at Psycho-Babble-Tips at egroups (link at top of this page).
I cannot vouch for all of the links, just put in lots of stuff that seemed interesting, but only having skimmed the material. Therefore, comments, feedback welcome.
Posted by noa on October 8, 2000, at 10:25:25
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jo on September 27, 2000, at 19:07:26
> I just found this message board today! I also started Serzone today.
Since this is your first AD, here is some very important advice about Serzone:It can, for some people, cause really difficult INITIAL reactions, such as moodiness, rage, crying, loss of balance, grogginess. However, a number of people have reported these reactions disappear after the first few weeks, and that sticking it out is worth it.
I am one of those people. I am glad I stuck it out, because serzone (I take it in combo with other things) is a valuable addition to my "cocktail". The bad effects went away after 3-4 weeks.
Now, I take 300 mg. at around 6 pm. It allows me to sleep at night, which was hard because of the effexor,and counteracts other negative effects of the effexor, such as restlessness, fidgitiness, anxiety.
Good luck.
Posted by mjoe on December 30, 2000, at 18:03:30
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by yona on July 18, 2000, at 15:06:36
I am a freshman in college and after ,y first bout with panic attacks and slight depression I started Prozac. Prozac cause horrible side effects. I had intestinal problems for 3 weeks, couldn't eat and lost 20 pounds altogether since the summer. On top of this, my anxiety became much more severe and I was launched into the worst depression of my life. I have also experienced some OCD. After this I tried zoloft and experienced confusion with sligh improvement to the depression. My doctor has most recently prescribed Serzone. But I am scarred of potentential side effects and the possibility of making it worse. I was also wondering how long I should wait in between the zoloft and the serzone. If anybody has any advice it would be great.
Thanks,
Posted by Jw on January 6, 2001, at 23:54:28
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by mjoe on December 30, 2000, at 18:03:30
I have recently started Serazone this past week. I have been on Zoloft for almost 5 years now. I am having few of the side effects mentioned in previous posts. I, however, am having tremors. It is like being really cold inside. My hands also feel very cold. I can't quite describe it.
My main question is....Does this quaking and tremoring go away? I sure hope so, I don't think I can deal with it, otherwise.
I am feeling little difference in my depression. I feel like my body is 'missing' the Zoloft. I am feeling like my body isn't attached to my head. I DON'T attribute this to the Serazone because this has happend before when I have forgotten to take my Zoloft or have tried to go off of the medicine.
As far as the benefits of Serazone, I am not seeing too many. I know it is early. I have some problems getting up in the morning which isn't great, but oh well. Part of that is just enjoying the comfort of my bed. :) I feel this won't be a problem when I return to college as I will have classes to attend and work to go to. I, however, wish the detached feeling would go away. That was the most positive part of taking the Zoloft, I felt. It made me feel like I was part of the world again. I am not feeling that way with Serazone, yet. I feel like I'm still in a movie or something. Life feels slower....
I suppose you could say that there is a benefit to Serazone. I am feeling much more frisky lately. :)
-J
P.S. This board has helped me way more than my therapist ever could have. I think she just wants me to rattle off some symptoms and she plugs me into some sort of formula and I get some new pill. I really don't enjoy those types of therapists much.....
Posted by SLS on January 7, 2001, at 8:26:37
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jw on January 6, 2001, at 23:54:28
> I, however, wish the detached feeling would go away. That was the most positive part of taking the Zoloft, I felt. It made me feel like I was part of the world again. I am not feeling that way with Serazone, yet. I feel like I'm still in a movie or something. Life feels slower....
> I suppose you could say that there is a benefit to Serazone. I am feeling much more frisky lately. :)
Hi JW.It might have been worth it to keep the Zoloft and simply add Serzone to it. Although there is always the potential for "serotonin syndrome" when any two serotonergic drugs are combined, I believe the risk is very small. You can discuss this with your doctor. Combining an SSRI with Serzone is sometimes recommended for difficult cases. It has been used by people here.
It seems that Serzone might be helping a bit, yes? From what I can see from posts, each drug tends to attack different components of a depression. The combination can make for a great treatment for people who are both depressed and have OCD. Since both Zoloft and Sersone may be partially effective for you, perhaps this is an indication of a synergy between the two:
zero detachment + friskiness = improvement
I don't know. Just thinking out loud...I guess I've just been bored these past few days.
- Scott
Posted by court on January 8, 2001, at 23:39:08
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by yona on July 23, 2000, at 6:26:08
began serzone tonight
not feeling well at all hot and cold sweats, tremors, hallucinations (spots in eyes), nausea, itchy prickly feeling all over, sleeplessness, ugh! is this okay?
Posted by Learning on January 9, 2001, at 0:32:18
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by court on January 8, 2001, at 23:39:08
A friend told me wonderful things about Serzone...increased sex drive, weight loss (for me that's good) and an overall improvement in her well being. I can't imagine that such an immediate reaction could take place unless maybe it was an allergic one... but you've got me concerned about trying it myself. Please keep us posted!
> began serzone tonight
> not feeling well at all hot and cold sweats, tremors, hallucinations (spots in eyes), nausea, itchy prickly feeling all over, sleeplessness, ugh! is this okay?
Posted by Taylor on February 3, 2001, at 0:45:42
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by court on January 8, 2001, at 23:39:08
> began serzone tonight
> not feeling well at all hot and cold sweats, tremors, hallucinations (spots in eyes), nausea, itchy prickly feeling all over, sleeplessness, ugh! is this okay?Hi, I'm having a lot of the same symptoms. Nausea, prickly feeling with chills (like a niacin rush), red blotches that come and go, sleeplessness, some dizziness. Any suggestions? This is my 4rd day on Serazone. Raised dose to 200mg today and will raise again in 3 days to 300mg. I'm getting really frustrated with side effects from meds. I was on Celexa for 1 month , but the side effects were so bad I had no choice but to go off and try something different.
Posted by Learning on February 3, 2001, at 0:55:35
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Taylor on February 3, 2001, at 0:45:42
I'm going on just 5 days...the first day was the worst...maybe because I thought the reaction was not to begin for 3-4 weeks. I had MAJOR chills and a reverse reaction (I'm usually warm bodied and cold handed and I reversed to freezing cold body and hands on fire). Today was my first day of feeling "normal"... the low grade headache is history, the "high" (that felt like caffeine jitters) is gone... but I'm still toting the insomnia. (Doc gave me remeron for that but I refuse to take it...have been told its a weight gainer---and at 5'2 125 lbs, I don't need that!)
Serzone, aside from the initial scary response from my body, seems to be working well...I'm looking forward to the weeks to come.
> > began serzone tonight
> > not feeling well at all hot and cold sweats, tremors, hallucinations (spots in eyes), nausea, itchy prickly feeling all over, sleeplessness, ugh! is this okay?
>
> Hi, I'm having a lot of the same symptoms. Nausea, prickly feeling with chills (like a niacin rush), red blotches that come and go, sleeplessness, some dizziness. Any suggestions? This is my 4rd day on Serazone. Raised dose to 200mg today and will raise again in 3 days to 300mg. I'm getting really frustrated with side effects from meds. I was on Celexa for 1 month , but the side effects were so bad I had no choice but to go off and try something different.
Posted by Miss Amy on February 4, 2001, at 22:32:53
In reply to Re: Serzone » Taylor, posted by Learning on February 3, 2001, at 0:55:35
Hi everybody! I have been taking Serzone for almost two months now and i see a significant difference. I had alot of questions when I first started--I have Panic Disorder and i am very sensitive to side effects. I posted a question on this site asking about how to minimalize the side effects and someone had the suggestion to start at 25mg. a day, and build up every three or four days with another 25 mg. I did this for over a month until I reached my desired dose of 150mg. AM and 200mg. PM. My doctor wanted to start me at 200mg. a day, and I just felt that was too much.
By increasing my dose very slowly, I experienced zero side effects (a little sluggish after my morning dose, but that is all.) I would recommend talking with your doctor about doing this--it just takes longer to get the desired results, but it is a heck of a lot less painful! Just a suggestion! Good luck!
Posted by Noa on February 5, 2001, at 6:12:45
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Miss Amy on February 4, 2001, at 22:32:53
I also started relatively slow with Serzone last year. I had 3-4 weeks of some adverse effects, tho, but those went away after this initial period.
I recently changed my dosing time. I had been taking it all (350 mg) at around 5:30 pm, because I was finding that it needed a few hours to work sufficiently to help me sleep (ie, counter the sleep problems caused by effexor), but then I was starting to have problems getting really drowsy about 30-45 minutes after taking it, and lasting about an hour. I also noticed that when I went to the gym after taking it, my balance/coordination on the treadmill was just slightly off--very slightly, but because of the action on the treadmill, it was noticeable there tho it hadn't been noticeable in any other way, even driving.
So, last week, I decided to try taking it later--- about 60-90 minutes before bedtime, and I found it works. I think that because I started exercising recently, my sleep is a bit better, so falling asleep isn't as much of an issue.
I was worried that it would leave me drowsy in the morning, when getting up (it had done so before), but I have been able to wake up fine.
Posted by Jw on February 5, 2001, at 19:33:19
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jw on January 6, 2001, at 23:54:28
So, I have been on Serazone for a month and a half. I am now up to 300 mg. I tried to go to 400, but I just felt so exhausted. I seem to be doing ok. The quaking, shivering has died down dramatically. I only ocassionally see tracers in my vision in the morning. I still have severe problems adjusting to heat and cold. This is quite frustrating. I get internal quivering after exposure to the cold.
I am wondering for those of you who have been on Serazone for a long time, does this ever equilibrate? Or will I continue to be extremely sensitive to the cold?
Posted by Chloe on February 11, 2001, at 9:05:34
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jw on February 5, 2001, at 19:33:19
I have been taking Serzone for about 6 weeks while decreasing Zoloft. It has been hard to tease out what reactions are from what med. But as I am on my last day of 6 mgs of Zoloft, I think it is safe to say that Serzone definitely has an effect on my body temp. regulation.
I thought the flushing and hot flashes where from withdrawal, but as time goes on, I see that it must be from the Serzone. I guess I find the hot flashes more tolerable than the terrible sweating then chills from the Zoloft.
I really like the Serzone over SSRI's. I do not miss the racing feeling all the time and the feeling negative, irratible and anxious. Oh and how I love to be able to sleep and desire sex again. I just feel alot more relaxed with Serzone.
With any med there are trade off. The mild headache, hot flashes and low energy I could do without, but I am hoping that they will mellow with time. BTW, going up on the dosage slow is very good advise!
Those are my experiences so far...
Good luck to everyone
Chloe
Posted by Taylor on February 11, 2001, at 11:33:47
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jw on February 5, 2001, at 19:33:19
Well, it's been 2 weeks now for the serazone and I'm up to 300 mg at night. I still seem depressed and unmotivated. I used to have passion for life now everyday I wish it would just hurry up and get over. I hate this feeling!! How long does this take to start feeling better? Help!
Posted by Miss Amy on February 11, 2001, at 14:52:31
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Taylor on February 11, 2001, at 11:33:47
Taylor:It took me about 6 weeks to start feeling really good. And I mean REALLY GOOD. I noticed a few slight changes along the way--after just a few weeks my energy increased a little and not so many negative thoughts----but after six weeks or so, after reaching my desired dose (150mg a.m. 200mg p.m.) I was actually getting hyper and excited and happy about things--A feeling I had not really experienced since jr. high, 15 years ago. The one thing about anti-depressants (which is good, I think) is that it levels you out a bit--but does not numb all your emotions. That is kind of the goal. You will still have some ups and downs....maybe even crying spells and a little anxiety, or whatever your "normal" depression symptoms are....but it should be somewhat manageable instead of depressing as hell. Try to set a positive and reasonable expectation of your meds (and counseling too...I feel everyone on a "brain" drug should be talking to a therapist as well, who is in kahootz with your doc) Set an expectation that you will feel better, but not miraculously stupendous overnight. Let yourself have those ups and downs and yucky feelings--they aren't going to completely go away---there is no miracle drug that will do that---but your feelings will become more manageable, and the way you deal with "stressful" situations will be better. It also helps to keep a daily journal and keep track of your progress---that way you can look back on it 2 months from now and see if your meds are helping. You have only been taking serzone for a couple weeks, and it can take up to 8 weeks, depending on the dose, to start working. Good luck to you!
Posted by Leslie on February 15, 2001, at 14:27:17
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Jw on February 5, 2001, at 19:33:19
Zoloft with Serzone 100-150mg. Hi, I have OCD and I tried serzone, highest I got to was 225 mg. I guess I could have gone higher, but all the posts I read, as well as my psychiatrist, that serzone has absolutely no effect on OCD, so I backed it down to 150 and tried Kava Kava, no effect still. So, I am now taking zoloft 50 mg and gradually increasing. Doc said I should completely eliminate the serzone. I am really worried about my sex drive going so I think I am going to keep taking the serzone at 100mg. What do you think of that combo?
Posted by Taylor on February 15, 2001, at 15:06:46
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Leslie on February 15, 2001, at 14:27:17
Okay here is the 2.5 week mark for the Serazone, The Doctor has now added Neurontin has a mood stabilizer100 mg with 300 mg of Serazone. Anyone on anything similar and how's it working?
Posted by Chloe on February 15, 2001, at 19:37:26
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Leslie on February 15, 2001, at 14:27:17
> Zoloft with Serzone 100-150mg. Hi, I have OCD and I tried serzone, highest I got to was 225 mg. I guess I could have gone higher, but all the posts I read, as well as my psychiatrist, that serzone has absolutely no effect on OCD, so I backed it down to 150 and tried Kava Kava, no effect still. So, I am now taking zoloft 50 mg and gradually increasing. Doc said I should completely eliminate the serzone. I am really worried about my sex drive going so I think I am going to keep taking the serzone at 100mg. What do you think of that combo?
Leslie
My experience with taking both was a touch of seratonin syndrome. I had insomnia, a racy feeling and was urination every hour or so. I think some people can tolerate two antidepressants together, but I am very sensitive to seratonin. I would just watch for signs of SS.
I have read on this site, that adding a little serzone to an SSRI is acceptable and does help with the sexual side effects. You can search the archives for more info.
Hope this helps.
Chloe
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 17, 2001, at 5:00:33
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by Leslie on February 15, 2001, at 14:27:17
> Zoloft with Serzone 100-150mg. Hi, I have OCD and I tried serzone, highest I got to was 225 mg. I guess I could have gone higher, but all the posts I read, as well as my psychiatrist, that serzone has absolutely no effect on OCD, so I backed it down to 150 and tried Kava Kava, no effect still. So, I am now taking zoloft 50 mg and gradually increasing. Doc said I should completely eliminate the serzone. I am really worried about my sex drive going so I think I am going to keep taking the serzone at 100mg. What do you think of that combo?
Well, I don't have much to say. I think that you should focus on one SSRI, say Zoloft. Take the dose as high as possible so your OCD symptoms diminish. Some people need doses higher than 200mg. Don't hesitate to try.
Concerning the side effects, your best bet would be to add Remeron when you do get the side effects. It is considered the best solution for SSRI induced sexual dysfunction.
All the best,
Jimmy
Posted by Leslie on February 18, 2001, at 2:31:16
In reply to Re: Serzone, posted by jimmygold70 on February 17, 2001, at 5:00:33
thank you for your replies, all who did so :) Doesn't Remeron cause weight gain? Im worried about the zoloft doing that as well :( but I dont have much of an alternative. Im just hoping that by watching what i eat and exercising that I will be able to combat the weight gaining effects.
Posted by Chloe on February 18, 2001, at 9:18:32
In reply to zoloft with Remeron, posted by Leslie on February 18, 2001, at 2:31:16
> thank you for your replies, all who did so :) Doesn't Remeron cause weight gain? Im worried about the zoloft doing that as well :( but I dont have much of an alternative. Im just hoping that by watching what i eat and exercising that I will be able to combat the weight gaining effects.
Hi Leslie
I was on Zoloft for 6 years and never gained weight. But I do exercise and watch what I eat. I tried Remeron and all I thought about was food (hungry all the time!) when I wasn't sleeping. Remeron was extremely sedating for me, I had trouble getting up to get to work. I had to D/C.FYI, Serzone is not another SSRI. It is similar to them, but it is not in the same class. So I think Serzone is a good companion drug with and SSRI. There is some good info about this in the archives. Look for a post by Cam. He is very knowledgable.
C
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