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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 50. Go back in thread:
Posted by shar on August 14, 2000, at 22:19:02
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol » Lisa Simpson, posted by Kath on August 14, 2000, at 19:57:36
First of all, Hooray for you!!! Well done! Way to go!!! A day is a big deal, don't minimize it! Don't think "only 3, 4 or 5 days mean something" this 1 day you did is highly significant! Pats on the back to you.
The reason to stop drinking is (close your eyes, think about what you will be like in 5 years if you drink every night, and by then, probably every day; you will have a red nose and red veins all around your nostrils; will you be caring and nurturing to yourself or anyone else? Will you love yourself or anyone else? )......so, the reason for not drinking is life. Choosing life over the existence alcohol will provide.
Best of all things to you, and hang on, hang on, hang on!
I would still like to be drinking, too. I love to get drunk. But....(see above).
Shar
Posted by FredPotter on August 14, 2000, at 22:59:44
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by shar on August 14, 2000, at 22:19:02
Lisa I stopped drinking when my liver enzymes showed some damage. The Dr also found I was diabetic. So my self-medication had to stop. The first week was hard, particularly as if ever I needed a drink it was THEN. The state of my liver was making me feel ill, anxious and depressed, I believe. Did I say anxious? That doesn't quite describe it. But after 3 weeks I discovered an inner strength. My life seemed worth living again. I wasn't nearly so anxious and my interests returned. I found in the past that I needed to drink in order to get enthusiastic about anything. And now I have all this energy, and I'm thinner.
I've now become a very light drinker of wine. It's not a generally good idea but thankfully I seem to have managed it. However, if I have more than 3 glasses (small pub glasses) I feel groggy later. Basically, and I never thought I would say it, I enjoy feeling sober. I never used to lose control so I didn't know if or when I would stop drinking, but it was just too regular. My liver seems to tell me now that it doesn't like more than the odd glass.
I have found a substitute however. I've found that if I drink kava regularly I can learn to feel its effects. And it's not a feeling of drunkenness. Perhaps someone will tell me that's not a good idea.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. I should think anyone can give up if I can. I never thought I could do it, but there are great compensations waiting for you. All the best Lisa
Fred
Posted by Kath on August 15, 2000, at 8:16:46
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by FredPotter on August 14, 2000, at 22:59:44
Hi Lisa - Just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you. Would be glad to hear how it's going.
Warm thoughts, Kath
Lisa I stopped drinking when my liver enzymes showed some damage. The Dr also found I was diabetic. So my self-medication had to stop. The first week was hard, particularly as if ever I needed a drink it was THEN. The state of my liver was making me feel ill, anxious and depressed, I believe. Did I say anxious? That doesn't quite describe it. But after 3 weeks I discovered an inner strength. My life seemed worth living again. I wasn't nearly so anxious and my interests returned. I found in the past that I needed to drink in order to get enthusiastic about anything. And now I have all this energy, and I'm thinner.
>
> I've now become a very light drinker of wine. It's not a generally good idea but thankfully I seem to have managed it. However, if I have more than 3 glasses (small pub glasses) I feel groggy later. Basically, and I never thought I would say it, I enjoy feeling sober. I never used to lose control so I didn't know if or when I would stop drinking, but it was just too regular. My liver seems to tell me now that it doesn't like more than the odd glass.
>
> I have found a substitute however. I've found that if I drink kava regularly I can learn to feel its effects. And it's not a feeling of drunkenness. Perhaps someone will tell me that's not a good idea.
>
> Anyway, just a few thoughts. I should think anyone can give up if I can. I never thought I could do it, but there are great compensations waiting for you. All the best Lisa
> Fred
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 15, 2000, at 9:32:41
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by FredPotter on August 14, 2000, at 22:59:44
Kath, that's a good idea - I'll stock up with lots of real interesting, different drinks to try.
Thanks for your post, afatchic - can you tell me what Wellbrutin is normally prescribed for?
Fred, thanks for your post, too. I dread to think what my liver must be like now. (What's kava, by the way?)
Did any of you others with alcohol problems ever have blackouts or fits?
Well, my second day last night. Drank more lemonade, fizzy grapefruit, even some KoolAid that a friend had sent from the States (how's that for desperate!) This morning, although I didn't feel sick, I had a massive upset stomach. Strange, that.
Wish me luck for night no. 3.
Lisa
Posted by Greg on August 15, 2000, at 10:18:01
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 15, 2000, at 9:32:41
Lisa,
I didn't see from your prior posts if you had made it to a meeing or not, if you did, I d like to hear what you thought of it. Congrats on two nights, the early part is the hardest! Remember, don't worry about tomorrow or next week, just take it one day at a time! We're here if you need us.
Hugs,
Greg
Posted by afatchic on August 15, 2000, at 18:08:21
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 15, 2000, at 9:32:41
Thanks for your post, afatchic - can you tell me what Wellbrutin is normally prescribed for?
>
>Wellbutrin is an antidepressant. It's also sold under the name Zyban and prescribed to help people quit smoking.Did any of you others with alcohol problems ever have blackouts or fits?
Wow, I'm telling all my secrets here! Yes, I had blackouts quite frequently and I didn't have to drink large amounts. I've had friends tell me that I didn't appear drunk even though I'd had a total blackout of the evening before.
>
Wish me luck for night no. 3.I wish you more than luck, I wish you serenity.
>
> Lisa
Posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol -- Reasons to Stop, posted by shar on August 14, 2000, at 22:19:02
To those struggling with a drinking problem,
I wish you all the best in what may become a lifelong battle. I have seen how very hard it is to stop.Dying from cirrhosis can be a slow process. You might develop a red nose. You might not. My mother didn't, but her skin and the whites of her eyes turned yellow. She used to tell me that the drops she took for glaucoma made her eyes yellow. She didn't think I knew she was drinking or how much, but that is one of the insidious things about addiction: it blinds people to what's happening around them. They think they can hide it. Family members wonder and worry for awhile. Eventually they learn all of the signs. Then they become silent watchdogs, listening to every inflection in the voice on the phone, listening for slurred words, watching a misstep down the hall, looking for hidden bottles, smelling the dirty glasses in the sink, smelling breath after a kiss goodnight, a hug goodbye or whenever they can get close enough. Family members know more than you think. You are fooling yourself if you don't think they know.
Maybe a change in liver enzymes is enough of a scare for some. It was not for my mother. She used to boast that the liver could regenerate itself, and it can to a point.
My mother had a drinking problem when I was quite young. She was hospitalized with cirrhosis in 1973 when I was in 6th grade. When I was in high school and college, she would become incoherent almost every night. She didn't hide it. After her father died in 1987, my mother drank continually, but she was hiding it. I was living in another state and didn't see the signs. She started feeling like she had the flu. The veins in her stomach and her esophagus enlarged and she began to bleed internally. She started to vomit blood uncontrollably and had bloody diarrhea. I cannot really describe what a bathroom can look like after something like this happens. Blood is splattered high on the walls, all over and around the toilet, all over the floor. It looks like a murder scene. You cannot imagine.
The protein from blood in the stomach will overload a damaged liver and shut it down. Bilirubin and ammonia levels rise to toxic levels because the liver cannot eliminate them. Blood loss leads to a drop in blood pressure. My mother went into cardiac arrest in the emergency room. They broke her front teeth out when they put the breathing tube down her throat. She was in a coma for three days. She could not breathe well on her own, so I had to authorize a tracheotomy, which she endured for three weeks. I will never forget the fear in her eyes as she looked at me while they wheeled her to the OR. She developed pneumonia in both her lungs and an infection that damages heart valves.
When the liver stops working, it becomes a waiting game. Doctors cannot tell you whether it will start working again. There is no magic test. You have to sit and wait and wait as they check the toxin levels in the blood over and over until some change is detected. It can take days before a verdict is reached. If the liver does not recover, the toxins build up in your system and your skin turns an unnatural ochre green. You fall into a coma. Your breathing becomes labored. You die. I learned that from a column someone wrote for the Washington Post about watching their own mother die of liver failure from alcohol abuse. Doctors wouldn't tell me when I asked them what would happen.
My mom was in coronary intensive care for three weeks and another week in a regular hospital room, but she survived. Insurance only paid a small part, and my mother was left with a $37,000 hospital bill in 1988. None of this deterred her from continuing to drink. She was in and out of rehab over the next 10 years. She never was able to stick with AA because it made her feel guilty and bad. She tried very hard. I'll never know how much she really struggled with her addiction. She told me once that the longest she was ever able to stay completely sober was one 9-month period.
She was arrested once for DWI. I had her arrested once for endangering herself: her blood-alcohol level was .33 and it took 18 hours for her to sober up in the hospital. She agreed to rehab again, but didn't work. She was angry with me for a long time after that.
Eventually her liver function became bad enough that not alcohol, but a bleeding ulcer shut her liver down. More vomiting of blood, another coma, another waiting game. When she toppled, drunk, over a chair in her house and suffered a compound fracture in her ankle in 1995, the doctors could only use pins or screws. They wanted to put in a plate, but said that it would have been too dangerous with her reduced liver function. When she developed cancer and lost a breast a couple of years later, it was riskier surgery and breast reconstruction was not an option. She qualified for a liver transplant, but would not consider it. I think she knew that she would not take good care of a new liver.
In the last few years of her life, she was hospitalized about every six months. Even a simple mineral deficiency would put her in the hospital, incoherent from the elevated level of ammonia in her system.
Because her liver could not clear her medications at a regular pace, the antidepressants she'd started taking in 1998 built up in her system and she complained about being woosy and unsteady on her feet. I had just started taking ADs and didn't know a lot about them. I suggested that she ask to switch to a different one or to a lower dose. Her doctor was not paying attention. I think he had given up. Not long after, she fell and hit her head on a curb downtown. A few days later she was dead. All I know from the man painting her house and the neighbors' accounts was that she wasn't feeling well that day and had decided to lie down on the couch for a time. At one point she called her doctor's office. I know this because there was a message on her answering machine saying that an ambulance was on its way. She went into cardiac arrest in the ambulancce and died in the emergency room. She was 62. Her doctor and I decided not to bother with an autopsy. Whether it was a blood clot from her previous fall or something else, it didn't really matter. All of it was due to so many years of drinking.
I don't bring this up to garner any sympathy. I've had my fill over the last two years. I've pretty much dealt with my mother's death. I've detailed her life here with the hope that her story might help someone who still has a chance to get help and stop drinking before it's too late. Ultimately, you should do this for yourself. If you cannot stop for yourself, please try to see what you are (or could be) putting your family through.
Again, good luck and all best wishes.
allison
Posted by Kath on August 16, 2000, at 9:40:32
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
Hi Allison,
Thank you so much for sharing the tremendously painful story. I'm going to print it out to have on hand if I even need to show it to someone. Thank you for repeating the terrible details of what your Mother went through.
I know you said you weren't asking for sympathy, but I hope it's okay for me to say that I feel for you having had to go through this. I'm sorry you lost your Mom in such a tragic way. Thank you for the fact that by sharing her story, you may have helped save lives.
Warm thoughts, Kath
> To those struggling with a drinking problem,
> I wish you all the best in what may become a lifelong battle. I have seen how very hard it is to stop.
>
> Dying from cirrhosis can be a slow process. You might develop a red nose. You might not. My mother didn't, but her skin and the whites of her eyes turned yellow. She used to tell me that the drops she took for glaucoma made her eyes yellow. She didn't think I knew she was drinking or how much, but that is one of the insidious things about addiction: it blinds people to what's happening around them. They think they can hide it. Family members wonder and worry for awhile. Eventually they learn all of the signs. Then they become silent watchdogs, listening to every inflection in the voice on the phone, listening for slurred words, watching a misstep down the hall, looking for hidden bottles, smelling the dirty glasses in the sink, smelling breath after a kiss goodnight, a hug goodbye or whenever they can get close enough. Family members know more than you think. You are fooling yourself if you don't think they know.
>
> Maybe a change in liver enzymes is enough of a scare for some. It was not for my mother. She used to boast that the liver could regenerate itself, and it can to a point.
>
> My mother had a drinking problem when I was quite young. She was hospitalized with cirrhosis in 1973 when I was in 6th grade. When I was in high school and college, she would become incoherent almost every night. She didn't hide it. After her father died in 1987, my mother drank continually, but she was hiding it. I was living in another state and didn't see the signs. She started feeling like she had the flu. The veins in her stomach and her esophagus enlarged and she began to bleed internally. She started to vomit blood uncontrollably and had bloody diarrhea. I cannot really describe what a bathroom can look like after something like this happens. Blood is splattered high on the walls, all over and around the toilet, all over the floor. It looks like a murder scene. You cannot imagine.
>
> The protein from blood in the stomach will overload a damaged liver and shut it down. Bilirubin and ammonia levels rise to toxic levels because the liver cannot eliminate them. Blood loss leads to a drop in blood pressure. My mother went into cardiac arrest in the emergency room. They broke her front teeth out when they put the breathing tube down her throat. She was in a coma for three days. She could not breathe well on her own, so I had to authorize a tracheotomy, which she endured for three weeks. I will never forget the fear in her eyes as she looked at me while they wheeled her to the OR. She developed pneumonia in both her lungs and an infection that damages heart valves.
>
> When the liver stops working, it becomes a waiting game. Doctors cannot tell you whether it will start working again. There is no magic test. You have to sit and wait and wait as they check the toxin levels in the blood over and over until some change is detected. It can take days before a verdict is reached. If the liver does not recover, the toxins build up in your system and your skin turns an unnatural ochre green. You fall into a coma. Your breathing becomes labored. You die. I learned that from a column someone wrote for the Washington Post about watching their own mother die of liver failure from alcohol abuse. Doctors wouldn't tell me when I asked them what would happen.
>
> My mom was in coronary intensive care for three weeks and another week in a regular hospital room, but she survived. Insurance only paid a small part, and my mother was left with a $37,000 hospital bill in 1988. None of this deterred her from continuing to drink. She was in and out of rehab over the next 10 years. She never was able to stick with AA because it made her feel guilty and bad. She tried very hard. I'll never know how much she really struggled with her addiction. She told me once that the longest she was ever able to stay completely sober was one 9-month period.
>
> She was arrested once for DWI. I had her arrested once for endangering herself: her blood-alcohol level was .33 and it took 18 hours for her to sober up in the hospital. She agreed to rehab again, but didn't work. She was angry with me for a long time after that.
>
> Eventually her liver function became bad enough that not alcohol, but a bleeding ulcer shut her liver down. More vomiting of blood, another coma, another waiting game. When she toppled, drunk, over a chair in her house and suffered a compound fracture in her ankle in 1995, the doctors could only use pins or screws. They wanted to put in a plate, but said that it would have been too dangerous with her reduced liver function. When she developed cancer and lost a breast a couple of years later, it was riskier surgery and breast reconstruction was not an option. She qualified for a liver transplant, but would not consider it. I think she knew that she would not take good care of a new liver.
>
> In the last few years of her life, she was hospitalized about every six months. Even a simple mineral deficiency would put her in the hospital, incoherent from the elevated level of ammonia in her system.
>
> Because her liver could not clear her medications at a regular pace, the antidepressants she'd started taking in 1998 built up in her system and she complained about being woosy and unsteady on her feet. I had just started taking ADs and didn't know a lot about them. I suggested that she ask to switch to a different one or to a lower dose. Her doctor was not paying attention. I think he had given up. Not long after, she fell and hit her head on a curb downtown. A few days later she was dead. All I know from the man painting her house and the neighbors' accounts was that she wasn't feeling well that day and had decided to lie down on the couch for a time. At one point she called her doctor's office. I know this because there was a message on her answering machine saying that an ambulance was on its way. She went into cardiac arrest in the ambulancce and died in the emergency room. She was 62. Her doctor and I decided not to bother with an autopsy. Whether it was a blood clot from her previous fall or something else, it didn't really matter. All of it was due to so many years of drinking.
>
> I don't bring this up to garner any sympathy. I've had my fill over the last two years. I've pretty much dealt with my mother's death. I've detailed her life here with the hope that her story might help someone who still has a chance to get help and stop drinking before it's too late. Ultimately, you should do this for yourself. If you cannot stop for yourself, please try to see what you are (or could be) putting your family through.
>
> Again, good luck and all best wishes.
>
> allison
>
>
>
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 16, 2000, at 10:35:52
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
Allison, I really don't know what to say to you. You shook me up - which was your intent, I guess. It must have been such a nightmare for you. And those seem like pretty good reasons to stop. Thank you for talking about it.
Greg, I haven't gone to a meeting - as I said earlier, I can't do it without my husband knowing, and I don't want him to know - he would tell everyone about it.
I had a step back last night - I went home, again without buying any alcohol to take home with me. But later in the evening, my husband produced a bottle of brandy, which he proceeded to open in front of me, and offered me some. I couldn't resist - I had some. Not much. But I still had some. I feel really bad about it today... such a failure, I am.
Posted by shar on August 16, 2000, at 14:22:11
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 16, 2000, at 10:35:52
>
Lisa,
Please resist that voice that says you are a failure. Always remember that you were a success before you stepped back.Every alcoholic has bad times, most of them have at least one step back. You are so early in your sobriety it is extra hard for you to say no. That takes quite a bit of practice.
You would not believe the stories I've heard of people having a slip; some after months, some after years of sobriety. I think that's why there is so much emphasis on one day at a time (one hour/minute/etc. at a time).
If you can distract yourself or resist for one minute, pretty soon it will be an hour's worth. If you slip, it's done, and you can "get back on the horse" and remember that you had 2 or three days of sobriety, and feel really good about that.
Everything about sobriety is a little at a time. A little sobriety earns a big celebration (pats on the back, a special treat, whatever you can do to acknowledge your success), a slip earns another opportunity to think about why you want to stop, and lets you know how strong the draw of alcohol is. If all people beat themselves up because of a slip we probably wouldn't have any "recovering" alcoholics because beating oneself up does not encourage taking another try.
You should give yourself at least 49,823,496 tries before you say "failure" at all. This is long term. It's like someone in their first year at college beating themselves up because they are not a senior yet!
Hang on, you have a lot of people pulling for you. Good luck,
Shar
> I had a step back last night - I went home, again without buying any alcohol to take home with me. But later in the evening, my husband produced a bottle of brandy, which he proceeded to open in front of me, and offered me some. I couldn't resist - I had some. Not much. But I still had some. I feel really bad about it today... such a failure, I am.
Posted by allisonm on August 16, 2000, at 17:05:05
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol , posted by Lisa Simpson on August 16, 2000, at 10:35:52
Lisa,
You are not a failure. It takes many tries to stop. Please don't be so hard on yourself. It doesn't do you any good.
I understand your need not to tell your husband, but he should be in this fight with you. He should know that you're trying to stop. He should be helping you to stay sober. That means doing things with you that do not include alcohol. You will need his support in all of this. My mother had a sweetheart for a time who considered her alcoholism her problem. He continued to drink around her. He thought it was unnecessary to go to meetings with her, or even to the family week at the rehab center, which teaches family members about alcohol addiction and how to help yourself and your alcohol-addicted loved one.
I hope you will reconsider. Can't he understand how important this is to you? Can't he respect you enough not to go around talking about this as you wish? Without his direct support, you are greatly increasing your chances for failure, IMHO.
Best wishes,
allison
Posted by mark on August 16, 2000, at 22:34:57
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by allisonm on August 15, 2000, at 21:36:29
Thank you Allison for your story. I've been around addiction all my life and have seen it in various forms
and your story really struck a chord with me.I think to a point that addiction is genetic. Both my father and my brother died as a result of a chemical
addiction. My father was an alcoholic and my brother was an alcoholic/drug user. My parents were older when
I was born so I never knew any of my grandparents. But through some cursory geneology I've found signs pointing
to addiction back several generations. It's seems to run on the male side of the family. My father's brother
was also an alcoholic, but his sisters never drank a drop as far as I know.My father was a hard drinker all of his life and at age 55 began having heart problems. While his liver
seemed to be able to handle all of the alcohol, his heart was being ravaged. I never thought of the heart
in conjunction with alcohol-related illnesses until his doctor told me about it. Like your mother ill health,
jail, car crashes, etc. didn't stop his drinking. He finally died at age 72 in hospice where his esophogus was
so damaged that it continually produced mucuous . He couldn't eat and the mucous in his stomach made him
so sick that what they could get down him he threw back up. He couldn't get proper nourishment and his heart
finally gave out.My brother was the greatest guy you've ever met. Full of charm, personality, and always quick with a smile. I
can't remember ever seeing him drunk. He always seemed to have a beer in his hand, but never seemed drunk. I never
knew anything about the drugs until my mom told me. I was three years old when he went to Vietnam. When he came
back my mom said she found syringes a few times in his coat. Whatever he was into all those years he seemed to be
able to handle it until his second marriage fell apart. He always had a job, money, family, all the trappings of
success until then. He just 'dropped out'. I never got the whole story. I guess he was a street person doing what
he had to to get money. He would call my mom once a month to let her know he was alright. Never any details. Just
that he was still alive. That lasted the better part of 10 years. One of the last calls came from a Veterans
Administration hospital. Someone had dropped him in a crumpled heap at their emergency room. He told my mom that
it was just a reaction to blood pressure medication he was on and he would be out in a couple of days because he
was starting a new job. A couple of days later he was dead. His body had shut down from cirrhosis of the liver
from alcohol abuse and hepititis C. The VA chaplain said he was one of the kindest souls he ever met. Always
grinning a toothless grin because his teeth had been knocked out after being rolled so many times on the street.
Remembering to ask the Chaplain how he was doing and if he was ok. My brother requested a closed casket funeral
so I never got to see him for the last time. I guess he looked so bad that he didn't want anyone to see him. I
didn't cry at the funeral because I knew he was finally free of whatever demons were haunting him. I did cry
when I went through his personal effects and found his ID card. His face looked like it had caught on fire and
someone put it out with a rake. Only that glimmer in his eye let me know it was him.Now I'm struggling with my own addiction to alcohol. Don't want alcohol - can't stay away from it. I've got it
under control, but I still slip. I slip - but I haven't fallen yet. AA didn't work for me because our local
chapter was really guilt and shame based. Hello? Adult Child of an Alcoholic! I went to therepy for too many
years to get rid of the guilt and shame. What has worked for me has been Rational Recovery. It teaches the
BEAST principle and how to recognize and (hopefully) stop alcoholic episodes. I'm at the age now when my
brother started downhill. It scares me to death to think that I might wind up like him. I don't want anyone
to look at an ID card and wonder who this filthy stranger is.Sobriety for me is like learning to walk. The slips only make me more determined to get back on my feet. You're
going to make it, Lisa. I am too.
Mark
> To those struggling with a drinking problem,
> I wish you all the best in what may become a lifelong battle. I have seen how very hard it is to stop.
>
> Dying from cirrhosis can be a slow process. You might develop a red nose. You might not. My mother didn't, but her skin and the whites of her eyes turned yellow. She used to tell me that the drops she took for glaucoma made her eyes yellow. She didn't think I knew she was drinking or how much, but that is one of the insidious things about addiction: it blinds people to what's happening around them. They think they can hide it. Family members wonder and worry for awhile. Eventually they learn all of the signs. Then they become silent watchdogs, listening to every inflection in the voice on the phone, listening for slurred words, watching a misstep down the hall, looking for hidden bottles, smelling the dirty glasses in the sink, smelling breath after a kiss goodnight, a hug goodbye or whenever they can get close enough. Family members know more than you think. You are fooling yourself if you don't think they know.
>
> Maybe a change in liver enzymes is enough of a scare for some. It was not for my mother. She used to boast that the liver could regenerate itself, and it can to a point.
>
> My mother had a drinking problem when I was quite young. She was hospitalized with cirrhosis in 1973 when I was in 6th grade. When I was in high school and college, she would become incoherent almost every night. She didn't hide it. After her father died in 1987, my mother drank continually, but she was hiding it. I was living in another state and didn't see the signs. She started feeling like she had the flu. The veins in her stomach and her esophagus enlarged and she began to bleed internally. She started to vomit blood uncontrollably and had bloody diarrhea. I cannot really describe what a bathroom can look like after something like this happens. Blood is splattered high on the walls, all over and around the toilet, all over the floor. It looks like a murder scene. You cannot imagine.
>
> The protein from blood in the stomach will overload a damaged liver and shut it down. Bilirubin and ammonia levels rise to toxic levels because the liver cannot eliminate them. Blood loss leads to a drop in blood pressure. My mother went into cardiac arrest in the emergency room. They broke her front teeth out when they put the breathing tube down her throat. She was in a coma for three days. She could not breathe well on her own, so I had to authorize a tracheotomy, which she endured for three weeks. I will never forget the fear in her eyes as she looked at me while they wheeled her to the OR. She developed pneumonia in both her lungs and an infection that damages heart valves.
>
> When the liver stops working, it becomes a waiting game. Doctors cannot tell you whether it will start working again. There is no magic test. You have to sit and wait and wait as they check the toxin levels in the blood over and over until some change is detected. It can take days before a verdict is reached. If the liver does not recover, the toxins build up in your system and your skin turns an unnatural ochre green. You fall into a coma. Your breathing becomes labored. You die. I learned that from a column someone wrote for the Washington Post about watching their own mother die of liver failure from alcohol abuse. Doctors wouldn't tell me when I asked them what would happen.
>
> My mom was in coronary intensive care for three weeks and another week in a regular hospital room, but she survived. Insurance only paid a small part, and my mother was left with a $37,000 hospital bill in 1988. None of this deterred her from continuing to drink. She was in and out of rehab over the next 10 years. She never was able to stick with AA because it made her feel guilty and bad. She tried very hard. I'll never know how much she really struggled with her addiction. She told me once that the longest she was ever able to stay completely sober was one 9-month period.
>
> She was arrested once for DWI. I had her arrested once for endangering herself: her blood-alcohol level was .33 and it took 18 hours for her to sober up in the hospital. She agreed to rehab again, but didn't work. She was angry with me for a long time after that.
>
> Eventually her liver function became bad enough that not alcohol, but a bleeding ulcer shut her liver down. More vomiting of blood, another coma, another waiting game. When she toppled, drunk, over a chair in her house and suffered a compound fracture in her ankle in 1995, the doctors could only use pins or screws. They wanted to put in a plate, but said that it would have been too dangerous with her reduced liver function. When she developed cancer and lost a breast a couple of years later, it was riskier surgery and breast reconstruction was not an option. She qualified for a liver transplant, but would not consider it. I think she knew that she would not take good care of a new liver.
>
> In the last few years of her life, she was hospitalized about every six months. Even a simple mineral deficiency would put her in the hospital, incoherent from the elevated level of ammonia in her system.
>
> Because her liver could not clear her medications at a regular pace, the antidepressants she'd started taking in 1998 built up in her system and she complained about being woosy and unsteady on her feet. I had just started taking ADs and didn't know a lot about them. I suggested that she ask to switch to a different one or to a lower dose. Her doctor was not paying attention. I think he had given up. Not long after, she fell and hit her head on a curb downtown. A few days later she was dead. All I know from the man painting her house and the neighbors' accounts was that she wasn't feeling well that day and had decided to lie down on the couch for a time. At one point she called her doctor's office. I know this because there was a message on her answering machine saying that an ambulance was on its way. She went into cardiac arrest in the ambulancce and died in the emergency room. She was 62. Her doctor and I decided not to bother with an autopsy. Whether it was a blood clot from her previous fall or something else, it didn't really matter. All of it was due to so many years of drinking.
>
> I don't bring this up to garner any sympathy. I've had my fill over the last two years. I've pretty much dealt with my mother's death. I've detailed her life here with the hope that her story might help someone who still has a chance to get help and stop drinking before it's too late. Ultimately, you should do this for yourself. If you cannot stop for yourself, please try to see what you are (or could be) putting your family through.
>
> Again, good luck and all best wishes.
>
> allison
>
>
>
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 17, 2000, at 7:13:55
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long) » allisonm, posted by mark on August 16, 2000, at 22:34:57
Mark, I'd be real interested in hearing about "Rational Recovery" / the Beast principle, if you have the time and inclination to talk about it. From what I've heard about the AA, I don't think it would suit me either.
Thanks for your words, Shar and Allison. They really help. It surprises me every time I look at this board, and see how many people have responded to this thread. There's such a lot of great people here at PB. Amazing.Anyway, I was good last night and I'm going to be good tonight. I'm going to make sure of this by going late-night shopping after work, with my daughter, so I have less time at home to sit around wanting a drink. Friday night, however, may be a different matter...!
I now have another problem to worry about. I've just been told that I am expected to go across to the States at Christmas this year - to the same place where I nearly died the Christmas before last. I am torn in two - half of me really wants to go, it's real exciting to get a trip to the States, and we're going to go to a party, and have time to do Christmas shopping there etc. The other half of me is so petrified, it never wants to step foot inside the States ever again, in case the same thing happens again. I think the time has come to get some psychiatric-type help. I shall have a word with my doctor over the next day or two and see what he suggests. I'd really like to go and see a hypnotherapist, as I have great belief in hypnosis. But I don't know of any good ones in the area I live in (London/Surrey, UK).
I'm starting to become addicted to Rice Krispies. I can't stop eating them. Not just during the "happy hour" either, but I'm now even taking a packet to work so I can have the odd bowl during the day. I think I must be going loopy on top of everything...
Lisa
Posted by Cam W. on August 17, 2000, at 7:38:01
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by Lisa Simpson on August 17, 2000, at 7:13:55
> I now have another problem to worry about. I've just been told that I am expected to go across to the States at Christmas this year - to the same place where I nearly died the Christmas before last. I am torn in two - half of me really wants to go, it's real exciting to get a trip to the States, and we're going to go to a party, and have time to do Christmas shopping there etc. The other half of me is so petrified, it never wants to step foot inside the States ever again, in case the same thing happens again. I think the time has come to get some psychiatric-type help...
Lisa - Finally a question that I can relate to that is non-prescription. After my daughter was killed in a crosswalk in Florida in June, my wife and I have had lengthy discussions about going back to Disney World. We have come to the conclusion that it wasn't Disney World or Florida that caused our tragedy. It could have happened at the crosswalk 1/2 a block from our house. I would also really like to meet CarolAnn and her husband. Besides, Disney would only refund Suzanne's pass and we still have six days on ours and they are non-transferrable (guess Mickey needs new shoes). We are now planning to save up, to return to Florida in a couple of years. First, we need to pay off a bunch of related bills (still haven't received the insurance money, even though it does not begin to cover funeral expenses, let alone the cost of the trip).
Sorry, got tangentical again. Anyway, take the trip. Sure you will have qualms about going and probably even some anxiety, especially in mid-December. The U.S. didn't cause the near tragedy (although most of the world does blame them for nearly everything), it was some fatalistic turn of events. Besides, think of the fun airplane ride. A package with 4 pretzels in it and you get to wash it down with a 1/3 of a can of Coke, in an unstable plastic glass, while watching Pauly Shore's latest movie classic.
Do the trip. It will be fun. - Cam
Posted by allisonm on August 17, 2000, at 22:22:26
In reply to X-mas Trip, posted by Cam W. on August 17, 2000, at 7:38:01
Lisa,
Ditto. Go on the trip, skip the pretzels, resist the alcohol and bring your own Rice Krispies! :-)
Seriously, I think talking to your doctor is a good idea. My mother saw a psychologist in the last year of her life. He did more for her in a few months than years of rehab.
However, please do not write off AA until you have tried it. It has saved millions of lives. If you go to one meeting and don't feel you fit in the group, there are dozens of others. Don't judge the program until you meet the people. My mom had several friends throughh AA and they supported each other immensely (at least while she kept in contact with them).
Best wishes,
A >
Posted by allisonm on August 17, 2000, at 22:48:24
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long) » allisonm, posted by mark on August 16, 2000, at 22:34:57
Mark,
Thanks for writing. I'm sorry to hear about your brother and dad. I think alcoholism runs in my family also. My mom's parents were heavy drinkers/alcoholics, as were my grandfather's parents and his brother and his son (my mother's cousin).You are fortunate because you've seen it all happen before you and you see it for what it is, and you're not fooling yourself. You are well ahead of the game. Good luck!
Allison
Posted by dls on August 18, 2000, at 10:32:11
In reply to X-mas Trip, posted by Cam W. on August 17, 2000, at 7:38:01
> > I now have another problem to worry about. I've just been told that I am expected to go across to the States at Christmas this year - to the same place where I nearly died the Christmas before last. I am torn in two - half of me really wants to go, it's real exciting to get a trip to the States, and we're going to go to a party, and have time to do Christmas shopping there etc. The other half of me is so petrified, it never wants to step foot inside the States ever again, in case the same thing happens again. I think the time has come to get some psychiatric-type help...
>
> Lisa - Finally a question that I can relate to that is non-prescription. After my daughter was killed in a crosswalk in Florida in June, my wife and I have had lengthy discussions about going back to Disney World. We have come to the conclusion that it wasn't Disney World or Florida that caused our tragedy. It could have happened at the crosswalk 1/2 a block from our house. I would also really like to meet CarolAnn and her husband. Besides, Disney would only refund Suzanne's pass and we still have six days on ours and they are non-transferrable (guess Mickey needs new shoes). We are now planning to save up, to return to Florida in a couple of years. First, we need to pay off a bunch of related bills (still haven't received the insurance money, even though it does not begin to cover funeral expenses, let alone the cost of the trip).
>
> Sorry, got tangentical again. Anyway, take the trip. Sure you will have qualms about going and probably even some anxiety, especially in mid-December. The U.S. didn't cause the near tragedy (although most of the world does blame them for nearly everything), it was some fatalistic turn of events. Besides, think of the fun airplane ride. A package with 4 pretzels in it and you get to wash it down with a 1/3 of a can of Coke, in an unstable plastic glass, while watching Pauly Shore's latest movie classic.
>
> Do the trip. It will be fun. - CamHey Cam,
You really are 'good medicine'. Not only do you share your abundant knowledgable about the meds, you generously share your personal experiences as well.
Thanks for being an inspiration.
Don
Posted by mark on August 18, 2000, at 22:41:00
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by Lisa Simpson on August 17, 2000, at 7:13:55
> Mark, I'd be real interested in hearing about "Rational Recovery" / the Beast principle, if you have the time and inclination to talk about it. From what I've heard about the AA, I don't think it would suit me either.
>
I'm out of town and don't have the book with me, but I looked on Amazon.com and I think
the book is "The Thinker's Guide to Recovery: A Rational Approach" by Kenneth B. Peiser
and Martin Sandry. The book is out-of-print and I first found it at the library and was
later able to pick it up at a used bookstore.The book made sense to me because it talks about having a part of your personality
that wants to drink and tricks/coerces/lies/etc you into abusing when you don't want
to. That part of your personality needs to use and you are simply the method through
which it gets satisfaction. It gets the drink/drug/whatever, is satisfied and leaves
you to deal with the consequences of its action. When I say, "I don't want to drink"
I really mean it. But part of my brain is saying, "Yeah, but I do and you are how I get
it and I'm going to manipulate you anyway I can to get what I want." The book puts it
in terms of an abusive relationship. The question becomes: Would I stay in a relationship
where I'm used, abused, and left alone to deal with the consequences?And that's where the BEAST principle comes in. BEAST is an acronym for B-boozing opportunity,
E-enemy voice recognition, A-accuse the enemy of malice against you, S-self talk affirmations,
and T-treasure your sobriety. So when I'm driving home from work, for example, and I know
there's a liquor store nearby and I start thinking, "I want to stop and get a pint of X. It
would really feel good to get a buzz on tonight." I can recognize the B-boozing opportunity -
the liquor store - and realize that the E-enemy wants alcohol and needs me to get it. The book
says to give your enemy a name. I call mine Beast because I have no imagination. :-) When I
recognize that the Beast is trying to get me to drink for him I A-accuse him of trying to get
me to do something that I don't want to do. I tell him I'm not going to drink for him because
he's not the one who ends up smashed, puking his brains out, and feeling rotten the next day.
I tell him and remind myself with S-self talk that feel good when I don't drink, I enjoy my
evenings sober and being able to do things, that when I drink I shut myself off from the
people around me and that hurts me and them, and that I enjoy waking up feeling good and
being able to function the next day. I tell him I T-tresure my sobriety and the rewards
that I get from it are positive and not negative like the results of drinking.Sometimes the Beast wins and catches me off guard. But even with the occaisional slip I'm
way better off than I was. And slips are very rare anymore. I feel more in control and better
about myself for standing up against the abuse.So try different things, Lisa, and find what works for you. We're here for you.
Big hugs,
Mark
Posted by jomavesa on August 19, 2000, at 14:10:50
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by Lisa Simpson on August 17, 2000, at 7:13:55
Hi!
Check out website www.healthrecovery.com. It contains information from Dr. Joan Mathews Larson, Ph.D who wrote Seven Weeks to Sobriety.
She has a recent book out now called Seven Weeks to Emotional Healing which is excellent.Hope this will help you.
Peace,
jomavesa
> Mark, I'd be real interested in hearing about "Rational Recovery" / the Beast principle, if you have the time and inclination to talk about it. From what I've heard about the AA, I don't think it would suit me either.
>
>
> Thanks for your words, Shar and Allison. They really help. It surprises me every time I look at this board, and see how many people have responded to this thread. There's such a lot of great people here at PB. Amazing.
>
> Anyway, I was good last night and I'm going to be good tonight. I'm going to make sure of this by going late-night shopping after work, with my daughter, so I have less time at home to sit around wanting a drink. Friday night, however, may be a different matter...!
>
> I now have another problem to worry about. I've just been told that I am expected to go across to the States at Christmas this year - to the same place where I nearly died the Christmas before last. I am torn in two - half of me really wants to go, it's real exciting to get a trip to the States, and we're going to go to a party, and have time to do Christmas shopping there etc. The other half of me is so petrified, it never wants to step foot inside the States ever again, in case the same thing happens again. I think the time has come to get some psychiatric-type help. I shall have a word with my doctor over the next day or two and see what he suggests. I'd really like to go and see a hypnotherapist, as I have great belief in hypnosis. But I don't know of any good ones in the area I live in (London/Surrey, UK).
>
> I'm starting to become addicted to Rice Krispies. I can't stop eating them. Not just during the "happy hour" either, but I'm now even taking a packet to work so I can have the odd bowl during the day. I think I must be going loopy on top of everything...
>
> Lisa
Posted by jomavesa on August 19, 2000, at 14:13:18
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by jomavesa on August 19, 2000, at 14:10:50
> Hi!
>
> Check out website www.healthrecovery.com. It contains information from Dr. Joan Mathews Larson, Ph.D who wrote Seven Weeks to Sobriety.
> She has a recent book out now called Seven Weeks to Emotional Healing which is excellent.
>
> Hope this will help you.P.S. I was able to get her latest book out of the library.
>
> Peace,
>
> jomavesa
>
>
>
> > Mark, I'd be real interested in hearing about "Rational Recovery" / the Beast principle, if you have the time and inclination to talk about it. From what I've heard about the AA, I don't think it would suit me either.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your words, Shar and Allison. They really help. It surprises me every time I look at this board, and see how many people have responded to this thread. There's such a lot of great people here at PB. Amazing.
> >
> > Anyway, I was good last night and I'm going to be good tonight. I'm going to make sure of this by going late-night shopping after work, with my daughter, so I have less time at home to sit around wanting a drink. Friday night, however, may be a different matter...!
> >
> > I now have another problem to worry about. I've just been told that I am expected to go across to the States at Christmas this year - to the same place where I nearly died the Christmas before last. I am torn in two - half of me really wants to go, it's real exciting to get a trip to the States, and we're going to go to a party, and have time to do Christmas shopping there etc. The other half of me is so petrified, it never wants to step foot inside the States ever again, in case the same thing happens again. I think the time has come to get some psychiatric-type help. I shall have a word with my doctor over the next day or two and see what he suggests. I'd really like to go and see a hypnotherapist, as I have great belief in hypnosis. But I don't know of any good ones in the area I live in (London/Surrey, UK).
> >
> > I'm starting to become addicted to Rice Krispies. I can't stop eating them. Not just during the "happy hour" either, but I'm now even taking a packet to work so I can have the odd bowl during the day. I think I must be going loopy on top of everything...
> >
> > Lisa
Posted by allisonm on August 21, 2000, at 22:02:55
In reply to Re: Problems with Alcohol - Reasons to Stop (long), posted by Lisa Simpson on August 17, 2000, at 7:13:55
Lisa,
Haven't heard from you lately. How are you? How are things going?Best wishes,
Allison
Posted by Lisa Simpson on August 23, 2000, at 8:17:52
In reply to how are things going? » Lisa Simpson, posted by allisonm on August 21, 2000, at 22:02:55
Hi Allison and all. I had a bit of a set-back Saturday night - my worst night. My problem has been that I'm managing to be good in so much as I don't buy bottles of spirit into the house. But my husband occasionally opens a bottle of something I really like, and offers it to me, and my will-power isn't strong enough to resist when it's put right under my nose. I've decided to tell him tonight that I'm giving up alcohol because I want to lose weight (which is actually true, even if it's not the main reason!), and to check what I'm drinking each night, and if it smells suspicious, for him to throw it down the sink. As I couldn't bear the thought of wasting perfectly good alcohol by tossing it down the sink, that should help a great deal!
One problem I have started to get, is that I'm having problems getting to sleep, and once I'm there, staying asleep. I don't know if this is a temporary problem - I hope so, cos it's driving me mad. Alcohol is, after all, a very good soporific! Last night, after lying in bed staring at the ceiling until midnight, I got up and had a bowl of Rice Krispies. And do you know, that helped. But I'm beginning to look like a Rice Krispie with the amount I'm eating. My boss is on holiday, so I'm eating bowls of it at work, too. Fortunately he's back next Monday, so I'll have to stop.
By the way, does anyone know of anything I can either buy or get on prescription to work as an appetite suppresant? Cos when I'm not feeling hungry, I'm less likely to want to drink Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Mark, thanks for all your information on Beast. That sounds quite good to me, and I will give it a try.
Well, must finish this post now - I'm about to tuck into a nice cold glass of Diet Cherry Tango! Mmmmm...
Lisa
Posted by Libby on August 23, 2000, at 17:56:38
In reply to Probs with Alcohol - Allison and Mark, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 23, 2000, at 8:17:52
For me, any kind of sugar helped, but chocolate was the best thing. This was recommended by my doc & works. Supposedly, there are chemicals in it that soothe the raw nerves mild-moderate alcohol withdrawal creates.
If you're worried about your weight and can't stand the thought of eating chocolate, you might try hard candies. They're pretty much pure sugar, which goes into your bloodstream fast and helps calm the jaggies faster than a bowl of Rice Krispies might. Also, this was good for me because I hate hard candies of any sort, so it was easier to stick to taking small amounts of sugar as medicine, as opposed to eating say, chocolate ice cream, where I tended to eat a lot
more once I got started. Chocolate Reissen (sp?) were pretty good.I gained some weight quitting drinking. I'm still not sure why that happens, but it's not uncommon. I wouldn't let that freak me out too much. Mine came off just as fast as it went on, once my body got used to my new eating & exercise habits.
Hope this helps & if it doesn't, just ignore me...
I'm kinda imposing myself in the middle of a thread here...L.
Posted by allisonm on August 23, 2000, at 22:48:16
In reply to Re: Probs with Alcohol - Allison and Mark, posted by Libby on August 23, 2000, at 17:56:38
I agree with Libby -- hard candy can help.
I don't mean to be telling you what to do, but I would suggest not beating yourself up by likening quitting drinking to being "good" because if you slip, you'll feel like you've been "bad" or not "good" and you don't need that because it can lead to a lot of self-blame and a sense hopelessness. "Being good" also connotes a feeling that you are trying to do what others or society expects of you when it's probably better to stop for yourself and for your own reasons. Otherwise you can start resenting those perceived to be holding up the standards of "being good" and then either feel hopeless that you'll never meet their expections and will always be a failure or your resentment may turn into rebellion. This is what happened with my mother. Whenever she told me she was "being good," there was a sarcastic, angry tone in her voice. I knew she was pissed off and that it wouldn't be long before she was drinking again because she resented having to stop drinking, no matter that it was damaging her. I don't know whether this makes any sense.
If you could find someone who's going through this also (AA is a good place for this), it may help you in your resolve to stop. You need encouragement and support. I cannot stress this enough. I'm glad you're telling your husband you're trying to quit, but he doesn't really know why. You need to be able to talk to someone who knows the real reason why. You need to be able to talk about your feelings and struggles with this. In turn, you could help another person in the same struggle.
With all best wishes,
Allison
Posted by afatchic on September 2, 2000, at 21:59:47
In reply to Probs with Alcohol - Allison and Mark, posted by Lisa Simpson on August 23, 2000, at 8:17:52
I've found Trazodone to be a wonderful drug for getting a good night's sleep. Many people say it's not an effective AD but for me it was wonderful and life-changing. I also noticed it decreased my craving for alcohol. I've been following your posts on problems with alcohol and I want you to know that I care about what happens to you. The war against alcohol is a long one, some battles you will lose but you have to keep fighting. It does get better, really.
Sandi
> Hi Allison and all. I had a bit of a set-back Saturday night - my worst night. My problem has been that I'm managing to be good in so much as I don't buy bottles of spirit into the house. But my husband occasionally opens a bottle of something I really like, and offers it to me, and my will-power isn't strong enough to resist when it's put right under my nose. I've decided to tell him tonight that I'm giving up alcohol because I want to lose weight (which is actually true, even if it's not the main reason!), and to check what I'm drinking each night, and if it smells suspicious, for him to throw it down the sink. As I couldn't bear the thought of wasting perfectly good alcohol by tossing it down the sink, that should help a great deal!
>
> One problem I have started to get, is that I'm having problems getting to sleep, and once I'm there, staying asleep. I don't know if this is a temporary problem - I hope so, cos it's driving me mad. Alcohol is, after all, a very good soporific! Last night, after lying in bed staring at the ceiling until midnight, I got up and had a bowl of Rice Krispies. And do you know, that helped. But I'm beginning to look like a Rice Krispie with the amount I'm eating. My boss is on holiday, so I'm eating bowls of it at work, too. Fortunately he's back next Monday, so I'll have to stop.
>
> By the way, does anyone know of anything I can either buy or get on prescription to work as an appetite suppresant? Cos when I'm not feeling hungry, I'm less likely to want to drink Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>
> Mark, thanks for all your information on Beast. That sounds quite good to me, and I will give it a try.
>
> Well, must finish this post now - I'm about to tuck into a nice cold glass of Diet Cherry Tango! Mmmmm...
>
> Lisa
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