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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NikkiT on May 20, 2000, at 5:51:28
How do I stop "those" bad thoughts.. As I explained to Tina yesterday, I had a bad day last yesterday, and this culminated in me laying in bed from 10pm, working how how and when I could "do it"... I simply have this over whelming feeling right now that I can't be bothered with another 70 years or whatever of this.. I'm fed up of explaining, of feeling guilt of feeling like this, of everything. If only I could forget my family exist it would all be so much easier, but my family know nothing of how I'm feeling, and would it shock them just TOO much. And I alos know there is no way they would understand my depression / medication - my mum (whi is a very strong woman) is a "oh pull yaself together" kind of person. I want to be away from my apartment cos I'm fed up of the mess, and the guilt of the mess. I want to be ignored by my friends as I feel I HAVE to see them, when I simply can't face going out.
I nedd some answers, but I know there aren't any - other than hwats the easiest way out of all this. I ahve a good week, and when I'm good now, I know at the back of my mind, the next crash will be even lower. I WANT SOMETHING THE MAKE ME FEEL SOMETHING OTHER THAN THIS C**P.
I've babbled... Sorry, but I can't explain this in any other way than typing it into cyber space.
Posted by juniper on May 20, 2000, at 12:32:57
In reply to Bad Night, posted by NikkiT on May 20, 2000, at 5:51:28
i think in the book undercurrents, martha manning described the self-hate muzac that just seems to play as a backdrop all day in her head. since you say you've perhaps 70 years or so of life, you sound like you are young. i don't know how to stop the bad thoughts, but i do know that i went through them for quite a while, and somehow i'm sitting here feeling quite all right with who i am and my direction now. but this has not been a eureka! moment, it happened, to borrow another literary reference of elizabeth wurtzle in prozac nation who was actually quoting hemingway, gradually then suddenly. i did the therapies, the hospitals, the drugs and drugs and drugs, but i think the main way i climbed out of this depression (though i still straddle the line with OCD, ADD, and other initials) is to really forget about all those things i grew up with--the expectations of sorts of family and society--and follow my heart, which led me to travel a bit, and to work for outward bound, and ultimately to go to graduate school for social work (where i am headed in a week or so). i'm not going to make a lot of money, and i'm not going to be high in society, and i couldn't care less. i know that this little babble means nothing as i am me and you are you and the way you are feeling doesn't leave a lot of room for hope. all i know is that i have been there, and i hated it, and i am actually surprised i made it through...but i did. and i've worked with many young people who are in the same place and i want to somehow transfer this assuredness and hope into their brains just so they can see that sometimes, it all works out. (i am 23 and 7 years ago i was a scary 70 pounds, miserable, scared, depressed in every sense of the word...i never thought that in 7 years i'd be where i am.)
are you close to your family? i kept, and keep, many things from mine, as the times i've let a little seep i feel i've ended up more consoling them than them consoling me. but i have been able to say, choosing my words carefully, that i am unable to do such and such because i am not in a space to do it, or that i have a specific need (of solitude, of time etc) because i know it would be best for me with the way i am feeling. your mother sounds much like my father (a strong, practical man), who throughout my anorexic period had an air of "just eat" about him. have you thought of writing a letter to your parents, where you can carefully choose your words and how much you want to reveal, while asking them for help or other needs you may have? if your mother is a strong woman....don't you think she could handle this? remember, you are the one suffering, not them. protect yourself first. do you have a therapist? or a friend whom you can talk to about your feelings? just sending them into cyberspace is a chancy way to deal with them.
really, how can you expect to help yourself when you are feeling as bad as you do...reach out, maybe just a little at a time--test the waters.
as for going out with friends....i am amazed that i have kept any at all...going out can seem like such a chore and i am always afraid of ending up in a situation where i am at a party or other social function trying vainly to engage in small talk while feeling like utter shit, and feeling trapped. but i have found that if i pick my outings wisely (i don't like large crowds, small talk, meat-market type atmospheres) i can have an enjoyable night which gives me faith that there are still things that i can enjoy.that's a lot of babble, and little answer. but you are not alone, and you've so much time in which things can change (i truely base most of my change simply on getting older...hormones and such reconforming in my body). you may be able to speed up a change by reaching out to someone you trust......
sending "good" night vibes------
juniper--------what medication(s) are you on? have you tried others? have you been diagnosed with depression? anything else?
Posted by Noa on May 20, 2000, at 15:15:51
In reply to Re: Bad Night, posted by juniper on May 20, 2000, at 12:32:57
Nikki, sorry you are in such pain. When I was younger and first coming to realize how depressed I was, I, too kept it a secret from my family. Except one brother. Later, I disclosed it to my sister. That was incredibly helpful for me. Finally, I hit bottom and after coming home from the hospital, I knew I could not get better unless I faced the fear of confronting my parents with my problems. For a while, it was uncomfortable because they treated me like I was made of eggshell, but after a while, as I realized I could not expect too much from them emotionally, I just learned how to set better boundaries in order to coexist with them. Years went by, and then I started struggling with the depression again. Last summer, when it get very bad, I told my parents. They have mellowed some at this point, and have been pretty supportive, the way they know how to be, with their somewhat limited emotional literacy.
Whatever you decide, you need someone to be an ally, a lifeline.
Are you in therapy? Do you take meds? Do you have a job?
Posted by NikkiT on May 20, 2000, at 15:44:19
In reply to Re: Bad Night, posted by Noa on May 20, 2000, at 15:15:51
Thanks for the replies...
I'm currently on Effexor XR, 225mg a day, plus some beta blockers to help with panic.. tried a few others - paxil (made me a million times worse) and remeron (made me way too tired) and a few others I've forgotten. I'm not in therapy (I'm in the UK and these things aren't easy here), but have been referred by a pdoc (who just sorts my meds) for some classes in stress management, but they won't start till July.
I work 45+ hours a week in IT, but it's getting so hard to actually get there etc, and plus, I've just got a new manager who I'm not findin it easy to explain things to.
I'm pretty close to family (but live 2 hours away), but I know m Mum and know she won't understand. We lost my dad two years ago, and she has coped pretty brilliantly with it, and as she thinks she must ahve felt it all worse, she can't understand if we can't cope with stuff. My brothers are alot older than me (I'm 25), and the only person I have to really take care of me / listen etc is my husband, but he can't be 100% for me, it's simply not fair, and puts too much pressure on our marriage (only been married 6 months). So basically, this place really is my lifeline at the moment.
Thing is, I don't want to "do it" (see, can't even say it) now, but I plan when will be a good time - and I know in my head I will do it one day, it's just a matter of time. I've also recently been thinking about self harm, as a way of release. SO many people say it gives them a release, how ever temporary - I guess the kinid of buzz shopping gives me right now - but I can't max my credit card out anymore!!! I guess I feel right now that I need time out from this...
Sorry to be so down, I don;t mean to burden everyone else with my shit. But you guys all seem to understand what I mean.
Nikki xx
ps - My husband has a copy of Prozac nation by Elizabeth Wurtzal - would anyone reccomend this as a read, he reckons it'll just push me lower right now.
One great book I ahve read recently in "The Metaphysical Touch" by Syliva brownrigg. It's about two people who meet over cyber space, and the guy is writing a "diery", his own personal diary leading up to what he plans will be his suicide. Bits in it really made sense, and made me realise other people can feel the way I do.
Posted by Rebecca on May 20, 2000, at 22:06:22
In reply to Re: Bad Night, posted by NikkiT on May 20, 2000, at 15:44:19
Nikki,
One thing that I've found to be helpful is to have someone I can be open with. for me, it's some of my friends. So I know I can be with someone and not feel any pressure to be social or anything.
As for telling parents, I e-mailed mine when I wanted to let them know. It helped to be able to do it in writing and give them time to digest before I actually had to deal with them on the phone.
But now that I've told them, I have pretty mixed feelings about it--I was able to explain to them why I didn't apply to grad school last fall, but I still don't want to give them details. They're currently visiting (they live 500 miles away), and although I've had a pretty bad couple of weeks, I've been telling them that I'm fine. The funny thing is, when I'm with them and occupied and pretending to be ok, I do feel ok.
When I e-mailed them, I told them that I didn't want them to freak or pry, and I think setting up that expectation helped. They didn't ask about suicidal thoughts, which was a relief (I would have lied about that).
I want to keep them out of my medical decisions, though; this morning my mom gave me a copy of an article about therapy + meds being better than meds alone (I'm not in therapy), and I really wanted them to butt out of my life.
I don't know if this is what you wanted to hear, but I wanted to let you know that you're not the only young one here and that the parent thing can really be a sticky situation.
I wish you the best with it all.
Rebecca
Posted by Renee N on May 21, 2000, at 3:53:41
In reply to Bad Night, posted by NikkiT on May 20, 2000, at 5:51:28
Nikki,
This is THE place to "babble". Please feel free to unload your feelings here. There are so many people here who can relate to your problems.
I am glad that you are thinking of your family. I hope you can find the strength not only to go on, but to enjoy life through whomever offers you support, and the discovery of meds that help, and if possible, some therapy.
You are definitely not alone.
Posted by quilter on May 21, 2000, at 23:55:56
In reply to Re: Bad Night, posted by Renee N on May 21, 2000, at 3:53:41
Nikki-
Sounds to me like your meds are not doing what they should be. Be sure to let your pdoc know about this struggle. I am trying to look at suicidal thinking as a symptom of my depression and (this is the hard part) report it to the dr. like I would a fever or other physical problem. I do understand how difficult this is, I have fought this for many years.
Could you possibly begin to open up to a sibling about your illness so they could be an ally when you do tell your Mom?
I also know how the years ahead can loom like some dreadful mountain. The best way to deal with it is one step at a time. A cliche but true, at least for me. There will be times to come that are easier. Quilter
Posted by Noa on May 22, 2000, at 9:20:25
In reply to Re: Bad Night, posted by quilter on May 21, 2000, at 23:55:56
> Nikki-
I agree with quilter. I don't know how long you have been on this med cocktail, but unless it is brand new and you are waiting for it to kick in, I would say it needs reexamining.As for those books, I would stay away from them while you are so vulnerable.
Also, if you can manage to prevent yourself from starting to do self-injury, I strongly urge you to. I have just read two books on the subject, and both talk about self-injury as a disorder that is an overlay to other disorders. So, on top of all the pain you are experiencing now, you would just have the added anguish of feeling compelled to hurt yourself. And it won't eliminate your current anguish, really. If it served as a release, it would be extremely temporary at best. Imagine the burden of having to hide scars, etc. on top of all the concealing of your problems you are already doing.
If you are still suicidal, and if you are in such agony that you are contemplating self-injury, I believe there is more that can be done by way of medication.
The stress reduction classes sound like they will be helpful, but they are not a substitute for therapy. You seem to need someone to talk to.
Posted by NikkiT on May 22, 2000, at 14:45:54
In reply to Bad Night, posted by NikkiT on May 20, 2000, at 5:51:28
Still feeling bad, and yet again, I didn't make it into work, even though I managed to phone in. My boss (the old one, he said he'd talk to the new one for me) has now said he'd like to talk to my husband about it all, but even my husband doesn't know how bad things are.
last night, most of it was soent sitting on the sofa, as the panic was so so bad. I didn't cut myself, but "poked" myself with a pin.
It's another 2 1/2 weeks till I see pdoc again, but I think I'm really gonna have to call him and get an appointment sooner, I simply can't carry on like this right now.
My husband is away for the next 3 days, so I will have to go to work, as sitting in the apartment alone will not do me good.
by the way, I've been on current meds for 6 weeks, so I guess I still gotta give em time.
Thanks all for "listening", and sorry I can't reply to others right now.
nikki x
Posted by Noa on May 22, 2000, at 17:51:08
In reply to Still bad, posted by NikkiT on May 22, 2000, at 14:45:54
You MUST go see the doctor right away. And you might very well need an increase in your dose, or to begin thinking with your doc about whether the meds you are on are going to do the trick.
PLEASE go to the doctor right away. The pain you are in requires immediate attention, not waiting 2.5 more weeks.
Do you think you can make it to work? What is your mood/state of mind like when you are there? Is it better than when you are home? If so, please try to go to work. It is just before 7 pm here, east coast US time, which makes it, I think about midnight your time. I hope you read this and are able to know that I and others here are thinking of you. See if you can get up and go to work, and then from work, call your doc to see him today.
Keep us posted.
Posted by juniper on May 23, 2000, at 1:14:21
In reply to Still bad, posted by NikkiT on May 22, 2000, at 14:45:54
i think that i assumed that you are younger than you are because you said that you'd still 70 some years of life ahead...i forget that with technology we are living pretty damn long (time for technology to focus on quality, not quantity of life).
i agree with noah, your meds do not seem to be helping you adequately, and you do not deserve to go through 2 1/2 weeks more of this. when you see your p-doc, do you tell him how you are really feeling? if you haven't been, this would really be a time to, especially about having suicidal thoughts. it's a scary thing to admit, but that what he (or she) is there for and the only way he (or she) can really help you.
have you taken anything for panic attacks? both xanax and valium had worked for me, though with both i usually took enough to knock me into dreamland for a while, but this was much better than going through the panic and horrible thoughts---i think that panic attacks are usually easier to treat than depression, so asking your p-doc about meds for this might be a good idea (other than the beta-blockers--i don't know much about these, but you don't take them on an as needed basis, when you feel an attack coming, do you?)
starting to inflict self pain isn't a good idea. (that's almost a silly thing to have to write) momentarily, somehow, it does dull the internal pain--at least for me. i become obsessed with the external pain and forget about anything else. but this lasts such a short time and inevitably it starts this vicious circle where after the cutting, or poking or such is done, feelings rush back, but they are only compounded by the fact that you know you just did something destructive (it depressed me further to know that not only couldn't i control these thoughts in my head, but i'd also lost control over my physical being), and by the fact that you've now these horrible red sores, or scars, marring yourself. i think in a way it is trying to make part of your outside appear as horrible as you feel inside. ------so truthfully, yeah, it helps in its own way for a short amount of time, but it is not worth it. i hate the fact that i have scars that will be with me forever, and that these scars will really only be seen by those very close to me, as i only cut places my clothing covers. it is not something i ever look forward to explaining.
please take noah's advice and get in touch with your doctor, and continue to let us know how you are doing.peace,
juniper
Posted by juniper on May 23, 2000, at 23:48:01
In reply to Re: Still bad, posted by juniper on May 23, 2000, at 1:14:22
i read the book prozac nation when i was depressed, and it gave me hope in a way, since i could see in black and white many things that i had been feeling. but i hadn't connected with anyone who had been depressed before to discuss feelings so this book opened up the comforting possibility that i wasn't alone in my thoughts and feelings. if you do read it, maybe you'd want to underline passages (or write in the margins little notes) that describe similar thoughts or feelings you have, and then pass the book on to your husband, or whomever else you'd like to help underdstand your depression.
hope things have begun to turn around,
juniper
Posted by NikkiT on May 24, 2000, at 14:31:41
In reply to sorry for the repeat--this one is different, posted by juniper on May 23, 2000, at 23:48:01
Well, last night was the worst, and i cut my left arm to shreds. i was alone, pc-less, panicked, and the sleeping pills I had just wouldn't kick in.
Finally, at 5:30am this morning I had to go out, as i knew if I stayed in I would only harm myself even worse, or maybe even worse than just hurting. And I managed to drag myself to work. I spent the day sitting at my desk, desperately trying to log onto this site, but unable to till now.
Anyway, I sent my husband a really long mail, and explained everything, and even told him about the cutting. He arranged to come home, which terrified me even more as I thought he would be so angry - but when he got home, he gave me the biggest hug, and has told me he's gonna help me throigh everything. I've also managed to get an appointment with the doc for tomorrow.
So, my husband is back here, hopefully gonna keep me on the straight and narrow.
On a good point though, my husbands brother and his wife had a baby boy this morning!! little whopper at 10lb 11oz!!
thanks everyone
nikki xx
Posted by Noa on May 24, 2000, at 17:39:00
In reply to Hopefully things can't get worse, posted by NikkiT on May 24, 2000, at 14:31:41
Nikki, sorry to hear about your bad night, but *WOW* you did such a great thing telling your husband. It must have taken so much courage!! And he came through, too! See? Doesn't it confirm that you chose well? You must have seen in him this ability to be there for you when you need it. Not by chance--you chose him, girl.
Glad you have an appointment soon. And, bring that hubbie with you if you want. He can help you advocate for yourself, can help gather info, etc.
Congrats on the new nephew!! The fact that you can express joy like that is terrific, makes for a good prognosis for you, I think.
Keep us posted.
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