![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by putih on February 9, 2000, at 5:23:00
Who has any information on the effect or interaction of smoking marihuana ( 1-2 gramms per day) and the use of Effexor?
I'm very worried about a close friend who seems to have a sudden? psychotic period. I can't find any information on this on the web.
I also read somewhere that ffexor can induce bipolar disorder, while at the same time it is used as treatment. I'm confused, so many symptoms, disorders and medications, and he doesn't want to see a doctor!!
Please respond,
Thanks Putih.
Posted by PattyG on February 9, 2000, at 10:57:16
In reply to marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 9, 2000, at 5:23:00
Can you tell us a little bit more about your friend's "psychotic period?" What happened? I do know that a minor amount of drinking doesn't seem to cause problems for folks on Effexor.
Posted by putih on February 9, 2000, at 13:42:28
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on February 9, 2000, at 10:57:16
Some events I an describe as like I was talking
to a different person, though I could understand
what he was talking about, though all in very
theatrical way, looking up the sky, talking to
someone who is not there, asking "it" for
forgiffness, getting angry in strange way,
facial expressions, "forcing" me into heavy promises;
I don't know how to describe, I feel like a cheater by
writing those emails,
He doesn't drink any alcohol
I'm in the dark, I don't know what is happening,
I just feel maybe I can convince him to see a
doctor if I can show him some info on the
interaction of Effe. and Marihuna.
So if you know any ... let me know.
Posted by PattyG on February 9, 2000, at 21:42:20
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 9, 2000, at 13:42:28
Would he be honest with you if you asked him about his drugging habits? I'm certainly no expert, but I guess I'd be wondering more about LSD than pot. Although, I suppose pot affects people as differently as do antidepressants!
Posted by Cam W. on February 9, 2000, at 22:53:29
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on February 9, 2000, at 21:42:20
> Would he be honest with you if you asked him about his drugging habits? I'm certainly no expert, but I guess I'd be wondering more about LSD than pot. Although, I suppose pot affects people as differently as do antidepressants!
Putih - I have heard of instance of cannabis psychosis occuring in bipolar patients. It has been blamed for triggering the onset of bipolar disorder. I use to think that cannabis was a fairly innocuous drug until I read some case studies. I don't know much more about it than that. Hope this helps. - Cam W.
Posted by putih on February 10, 2000, at 2:40:51
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by Cam W. on February 9, 2000, at 22:53:29
> > Would he be honest with you if you asked him about his drugging habits? I'm certainly no expert, but I guess I'd be wondering more about LSD than pot. Although, I suppose pot affects people as differently as do antidepressants!
> He doesn't use any other, and I just asked for info on the topic as mentioned in the subject header.> Putih - I have heard of instance of cannabis psychosis occuring in bipolar patients. It has been blamed for triggering the onset of bipolar disorder. I use to think that cannabis was a fairly innocuous drug until I read some case studies. I don't know much more about it than that. Hope this helps. - Cam W.
Yes thanks, do you have any idea where to find this article?
Putih
Posted by Cam W. on February 10, 2000, at 6:40:48
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 10, 2000, at 2:40:51
> > > Would he be honest with you if you asked him about his drugging habits? I'm certainly no expert, but I guess I'd be wondering more about LSD than pot. Although, I suppose pot affects people as differently as do antidepressants!
> > He doesn't use any other, and I just asked for info on the topic as mentioned in the subject header.
>
> > Putih - I have heard of instance of cannabis psychosis occuring in bipolar patients. It has been blamed for triggering the onset of bipolar disorder. I use to think that cannabis was a fairly innocuous drug until I read some case studies. I don't know much more about it than that. Hope this helps. - Cam W.
> Yes thanks, do you have any idea where to find this article?
> PutihPutih - Go to your local university (college) science library and find the Index Medicus in the reference section. Look up Marijuana and find articles on cannabis pschosis. Start with the latest years and work your way back. You should find plenty of good articles, which will be in the stacks or on the shelves. Good luck - Cam W.
Posted by PattyG on February 10, 2000, at 18:49:11
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 10, 2000, at 2:40:51
He doesn't use any other, and I just asked for info on the topic as mentioned in the subject header.
////Sorry. Didn't mean to offend you.
Posted by putih on February 10, 2000, at 19:38:54
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on February 10, 2000, at 18:49:11
Thanks Cam, I'll try
Me sorry too, Patty, seems i'm getting little itchy
Putih
Posted by PattyG on February 10, 2000, at 19:43:44
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 10, 2000, at 19:38:54
> Me sorry too, Patty, seems i'm getting little itchy
> Putih
///Eh! You know the saying....."Sh*t happens!" I expect you've been under a bit of stress lately. Try to remember that it's important for you to take care of you.
Posted by putih on February 11, 2000, at 5:26:50
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on February 10, 2000, at 19:43:44
Guess so,
I checked on cannnabis + psychosis and found some, but sofar nothing on interaction with antidepressants.
I will look this thread once in a while, for now
solong and you all take care too!
Putih
Posted by Jared on February 17, 2000, at 13:56:41
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 11, 2000, at 5:26:50
Its important to keep in mind that our brains neurotransmitters are all interconnected. And everyone's particular brain is different and will have different reactions to psychoactive drugs, of which marijuana and effexor are both. Neurotransmitters are how are brain processes information. Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Seratonin, are all very important in our mental health. Marijuana affects dopamine- which is realated to psychosis if there is an overproduction. Effexor increases the amount of Seratonin and Norepinephrine, which are related to mood. Thus depressed people, may have insufficient levels. When you start to mix different psychoactive drugs, without the supervision of a psychiatrist or doctor, you are playing with fire. I would advise your friend not to smoke marijuana while taking this medication. In fact, because he has some mental health problems, I would'nt be smoking it at all as it is dangerous in my opinion. I have smoked my share of weed. At first it was very enjoyable. But I definitely think it has contributed to my mental health problems. Like anxiety, depression, and panic attacks. Some people think it is relatively harmless,but I simply don't buy that. People who want it legalized will probably smirk at these remarks and say I'm full of it. But, I think if it causes problems, then you shouldn't do it. I am not a doctor so don't take anything I say as scientific fact, but I just know from my own expriences. Hope everything goes ok.
Posted by PattyG on February 17, 2000, at 17:15:04
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by Jared on February 17, 2000, at 13:56:41
Its important to keep in mind that our brains neurotransmitters are all interconnected. And everyone's particular
brain is different and will have different reactions to psychoactive drugs, of which marijuana and effexor are both.///That's the part that confuses me..both are psychoatice drugs....but one is illegal! And many people feel that *both* can help!
Neurotransmitters are how our brain processes information. Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Seratonin, are all
very important in our mental health. Marijuana affects dopamine- which is realated to psychosis if there is an
overproduction. Effexor increases the amount of Seratonin and Norepinephrine, which are related to mood. Thus
depressed people, may have insufficient levels. When you start to mix different psychoactive drugs, without the
supervision of a psychiatrist or doctor, you are playing with fire. I would advise your friend not to smoke
marijuana while taking this medication.//So what's the difference between someone smoking grass as an "adjunct" to an AD and giving a trial run to say, Ritalin, Reboxetine, Naltrexone, Buspar, or anything else??? It's all trial and error.....Russian Roullette. Or so it seems to me.
I have smoked my share of weed. At first it was very enjoyable. But I definitely think it has contributed to my mental health problems. Like anxiety, depression, and panic attacks.
///Do you care to indicate how much and for how long you tried MJ? And if someone feels that MJ brings relief to their symptoms, as opposed to increased symptoms, how should we view the situation then, I wonder?
Posted by putih on February 17, 2000, at 17:22:26
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by Jared on February 17, 2000, at 13:56:41
Hi jared,
thanks for the info, and sharing the experience, unfortunately he has been submitted in mental health clinic, forced, i arived just 30 min too late.
Don't know what is going to happen now, He is calm with me but freeks out with the medical staff so they locked him up and i was not allowed to see him.
This is in the Netherlands, it goes the same were you come from?
It also seems easy for them to blame it all on the marihuana, another drug-addict.
Well just hope thing s will go ok, though i'm scared.
They give him a lot of other medications and i'm going to keep an eye on that I think.
Thanks again
Putih. (the brain is a weird thing isn't it?)
Posted by Noa on February 17, 2000, at 17:52:51
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by putih on February 17, 2000, at 17:22:26
Perhaps they focus on the marijuana because they see a lot of addiction cases.
As for Patty's thoughts about using marijuana medicinally. The problem is that purity, strength, consistency, dose, etc. are all unpredictable.
Not to mention what inhaling smoke does to your lungs.
Posted by PattyG on February 17, 2000, at 18:17:29
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by Noa on February 17, 2000, at 17:52:51
As for Patty's thoughts about using marijuana medicinally. The problem is that purity, strength, consistency, dose,
etc. are all unpredictable.///Yes, of course, I'm sure that's true. (not overly familiar, just wondering and questioning out loud.)
Not to mention what inhaling smoke does to your lungs.
//Oh well, that's for *sure!* The act of smoking probably does more harm than many drugs (legal or not)
Posted by Jared on February 18, 2000, at 13:50:41
In reply to Re: marijuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on February 17, 2000, at 17:15:04
I hope I haven't offended you about my comments. Marijuana is a very controversial drug and I have my own opinions which are merely colored by my own exprerience. I smoked my first joint when I was seventeen. I got hit the first time and really liked the change in perception. Music sounded better. The whole world just seemed so amazing. I never smoked it consistently, but from 17 to 22, I have smoked it a little over 40 times with different amount and with different people. I also took LSD twice(once in a mental hospital). I have had anxiety all of my life, since I was very young and throughout all or my teenage years. I had my first panic attack when I was nineteen. The reason I believe that drugs have contributed to my anxiety is because they changed my perception, and got me seeing things in different ways. I had several really bad experiences where I freaked out while smoking pot. My anxiety has been worse from ages 19 to present then it ever was. Now I can't blame this on the drugs, and I
have absolutely no scientific proof, but I just feel that things might have gone differently had I not done them. The problem with Marijuana is that as Noa said, you never know where its coming from and whats in it. There have also been no(to my knowledge) clinical tests done for it use in psychiatric illnesses. I wouldn't deny that it might actually be helpful to some people. It is such a varied drug from person to person. The reason why I think its dangerous is that people who are mentally ill may already have a chemical imbalance in their brain, and using an illegall, untested psychoactive drug is probably not a good idea, even if it does help. There are so many drugs available that whatever the problem is I am sure it could be helped with existing, tested, and legal pharmaceuticals. Also, I hope I didn't throw you off with my comments about neurotransmitters. I am no expert and I only know from the things I have read. I should have said, using an illegal drug with a prescribed psychoactive is
playing with fire. The difference is grass has not been given clinical trials, and approved psychiatric medicine has. Thus it is much safer.
Posted by PattyG on February 18, 2000, at 20:20:32
In reply to Re: marijuana and antidepressant, posted by Jared on February 18, 2000, at 13:50:41
Gosh, no, Jared....you haven't offended me in the least! I always try to respect everyone's opinions and experiences. It sounds as though, in your case, that pot doesn't have a very predictable or calming effect on you. I've heard that some people get very paranoid and anxious on the stuff - seems you fit that category. I've also heard that for folks who are very depressed, it lifts them into a realm of "normalcy" as opposed to being "high." And if there's a legal drug out there that can bring that feeling to someone, then gee.....would y'all speak up?! As I say, I'm not the voice of experience, but I do understand the concept here.
Posted by ella on February 19, 2000, at 8:55:25
In reply to Re: marijuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on February 18, 2000, at 20:20:32
> I take celexa 20mg and smoke at night to help me settle down and sleep. a joint will last be 3 to 4 days. it helps me settle down and puts my mind at rest. I don't feel any interference. I agree that if i'm upset i can smoke and it'll put me in the frame of mind that i wish i could be at all the time. not stoned out of my mind. but relaxed and no crazy thoughts racing. make any sense?
Posted by wilsons on May 19, 2001, at 17:20:33
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by Noa on February 17, 2000, at 17:52:51
So has anyone found a good book or journal article that talks about the effects of smoking marijuana while on effexor? I would like to know more.
I have smoked for a while and enjoy it to unwind, but recently had my first anxiety attack, which lasted for 4 days. I went to my doctor who prescribed a sedative and effexor. After about 4 days, I smoked and had another attack that lasted a few hours.
It's now been a month, and I'm still on the effexor (and limited sedative), but would rather smoke that take the effexor. I never smoke while working and it never impacted my productivity (I work about 65 hours a week and am very productive). And to be honest, I'm less productive and athletic on the drugs I'm on now. But the anxiety attack was the worst feeling! And I couldn't work at all.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2001, at 23:21:52
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by wilsons on May 19, 2001, at 17:20:33
I gotta tell you that my pot smoking days ended with the beginning of anxiety and Panic attacks. After many years of trying to continue to smoke pot like all my friends and be "normal" I eventually gave it up because I could just no longer rationalize using it. I have a friend who also had this experience. Some people however do just have occasional anxiety attacks on pot. Why the quick jump to Psychiatric meds?
mr.scott
Posted by PattyG on May 21, 2001, at 8:13:05
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by wilsons on May 19, 2001, at 17:20:33
I guess I'm curious what you told the doc. I mean, did you complain of anxiety attacks or depression? AND.......did/do you smoke MJ to fight depression or to energize? I'm just wondering why he prescribed an AD. May be that in time, you will get some of your energy back.
Posted by wilsons on May 23, 2001, at 0:07:06
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2001, at 23:21:52
Mr. Scott,
To be honest, I've smoked pot for about 12 years regularly and never seemed to have a problem. It helps me relax and I really enjoy it. I've had about 15 migraines in the last 5-6 years, mostly after extended periods of intense exercise, but occasionally at work. Then about a month ago a had a migraine and after felt disoriented continuously for about 4 days. I went to work and "couldn't deal". My hands were sweating, I couldn't think right and felt like I may passout. I left work and went to the doctor and spent some time talking to him about how I was feeling. He asked a number of questions including how often I was very happy or sad, if my stomach bothered me, if I ever felt anxious, etc.
I told him that I was a pretty level person and rarely was extremely happy or sad, that my stomach has always bothered me since I was a child, and that things made me anxious (doctors, needles, seeing loved ones in serious physical pain, and sometimes new situations). I'm a very busy person both at work and outside of work. I also analyze everything, probably too much which adds to my worries.
He told me he has a very good feeling on what I should do. He prescribed a mild sedative (clonazapan) and the effexor RX. Although, he would like me to minimize the clonazapan and work my dose of effexor up to 225 mg per day (I began at 37.5 mg).
The doctor is also a friend of mine and I trust him, but wish I didn't need an AD. I'd rather smoke and relax, but anything is better than feeling the way I did, so I'm giving it a shot. So far, no real sid effects, but I have been getting mild headaches about every other day.
I'm seeing him about every two weeks for follow-ups. The next time I see him I'm going to ask him about counciling and the headaches. I also went out and bought a book on overcoming axiety disorders.
So that's my story. Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
wilsons
Posted by wilsons on May 23, 2001, at 0:15:11
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by PattyG on May 21, 2001, at 8:13:05
PattyG,
See my follow up to Mr. Scott. Also, I never complained of depression and don't consider myself depressed. I have a good life and think I'm pretty darn happy.
I consider smoking pot a way for me to relax. I also liked to smoke before playing sports.
My energy is OK, but it seems like a need more sleep now (8-9 hours vs about 7 hours) and am eating more (which is ok as I'm on the lean side). I work out a few times a week and play sports a few times a week.
I hope in time to get off the effexor RX and feel "normal" and even go back to smoking pot occationally (maybe weekends). But if I do will test it slowely over time and see how I feel.
I'm also curious of trying to smoke a little on the effexor, but am a little nervous. And if I'm thinking I'm nervous, I'll probably get more nervous if I smoke (the mind is a powerful thing).
Thanks for your thoughts,
wilsons
Posted by BigAndy on May 23, 2001, at 2:53:23
In reply to Re: marihuana and antidepressant, posted by wilsons on May 23, 2001, at 0:15:11
I have been smoking majuana off and on for 15 years.
I was smoking it pretty regularly (this was winter/spring 1990-91.
I had a panic attack while smoking it. I stopped and was taken to the
hospital. My friends and I thought I was having a heart attack.
After all the tests I was fine. I was now learning about panic attacks
I didn't smoke "pot" for the next two years. I took only the anti-depressants,
and xanax I was prescribed. I tried some trycillic ADmeds and some ssri's
I finally ended up on prozac 80 mg. and xanax as needed. I started smoking "pot"
during this time and have had no problems.
I have a new pdoc and he knows I smoke pot, about one year ago he prescribed buspar and
gradually took me off xanax (i stopped pretty fast...very unpleasant.) "pot" was a great help
coming off of the xanax. I had been on buspar and serzone for the last year. I was tired allot
so he swithed to WellbutrinSR and I continue to take buspar and marajuana.
Its been 3 months and I feel great..The wellbutrin perks me up the buspar keeps my mind at ease
and in the evenings and when I have nothing to do, I smoke pot......
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.