![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 313 to 337 of 488. Go back in thread:
Posted by jules354 on August 17, 2006, at 17:37:25
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 17, 2006, at 17:31:30
tiredofpanic,
when i was first withdrawing from the remeron i cut out all caffeine and most refined sugar, also cut back on refined foods in general (refined flour, processed & packaged foods etc.). it really helped with the anxiety. i didn't have headaches or pressure too bad but arnica and tylenol helped with the body aches and headaches, and drinking lots and lots of water. also regular exercise, yoga, walking, meditation...i think keeping the body moving as much as you can will really help with the symptoms. i hope all this helps and that you feel better soon...
take care,
jules
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 17, 2006, at 22:44:54
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 17, 2006, at 17:31:30
Thank you both for your replies!
It's now been 72 hours since I have taken even a little piece, I decided that was it, I need to get over it sooner or later anyway and I think at that little dosage, probably 1mg or less it wasn't doing me any good for either the anxiety or the withdrawl, so I said that's it. The first couple of days were hard, last night and this morning are a little better, I still have some pressure in my head, but it seems, just seems anyway that the symptoms are going away. I was only on Remeron for two weeks, I can't imagine Jim how you got off this stuff at all! Kudos to you!
As for the panic, yes I think it is the same panic that was there before I started the meds. But maybe enhaced a bit by the withdrawl.
I am not sure if I mentioned it or not, but I am now seeing a pychologist for Cognitive Behavioral Thearapy at a local hospital. Today will be my second time there, and it may take six months or more, but I think it has to be better than taking the medication, because in the long run I have to be able to manage the stress and anxiety that I have in my daily life, not just surpress it with medication.
I hear both of you have cut refined sugar out of your diet completely, why? The only indication I can think of for why you feel better is because of candidia which is a yeast that grows in your intestines and feeds on this stuff. There is some evidence to support this. I have done several cleanses to rid myself of this nasty bacteria and honestly have felt a little better after the clense, felt like garbage on it let me tell you, all those nasty toxins running around in your blood stream make you feel like garbage, but afterwards if you can tolerate it you may feel better.
Right now I am eating more sugar and other things that I have in a long long time. I think the Remeron really effected my appetite and it is still there, gonna take awhile I guess.
Thansk again for your support!
> Hey, Tired.
>
> Just a suggestion. As it usually takes a while to get acclimatized to Remeron. (It actually took me a month when I first started it). Try staying on that dose for a couple of weeks or so and then go down further. I think you're likely very correct in that the Remeron is not a good drug for you, Unfortunately, now, though, you are on it and in order for you to get away from it, I think you have to play it as if it were doing any good for you. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but, maybe you could try that. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say. It sounds like the symptoms you're having are definitely panic oriented, though. The headaches, as you're still on the medication, are a result of your normal panic that you had before. However, the shakes are a result of the actual medication, as most AD's will make you do this if you're going through withdrawal. I had exactly the same thing withdrawing from Remeron, Paxil and Effexor, but it was before I had made my dietary changes.
>
> As for me, I'm on my 35th day without Remeron and am still affected quite a bit. I've done everything, include cutting refined sugar right out of my diet for the time being, and still the symptoms are there. My symptoms are very similar to yours with the headaches, but a little depression is involved as well. However, it's still nowhere near what it was 10 1/2 years ago when I first started this whole schmozzle, so I think I'm still on the right track.
>
> In any case, keep pluggin along (I know it's extremely hard) and try to be as patient as possible. I think it will get better for you, eventually.
>
> Oh, and if I think of anything else, I'll most certainly let you know.
>
> Jimbob
>
> > I have a lot of pressure in my head, it feels like someone is squeezing me from from top to bottom. Light headaches. And moderate internal shaking. Some of that shakign can be seen on the outside as well. My heart feels like it will explode, moderate MVP. Blood pressure seems a bit low, resting pulse around 80-90bpm. Cannot sleep worth a darn. breathing is blocked a bit.
> >
> > A lot of these symptoms are panic themselves, but I feel worse now than I did before I starting taking this medication...
>
>when i was first withdrawing from the remeron i cut out all caffeine and most refined sugar, also cut back on refined foods in general (refined flour, processed & packaged foods etc.). it really helped with the anxiety. i didn't have headaches or pressure too bad but arnica and tylenol helped with the body aches and headaches, and drinking lots and lots of water. also regular exercise, yoga, walking, meditation...i think keeping the body moving as much as you can will really help with the symptoms. i hope all this helps and that you feel better soon...
take care,
jules
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 2:23:13
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 17, 2006, at 22:44:54
Hey, np. What Jules said about the caffeine is definitely true. Caffeine and refined sugars have a tendency of making panic and depression a lot worse, and sometimes even make things worse when combined witn AD's. I've actually been off all caffeine for 10 years as it eventually made me have blackouts in addition to severe panic attacks.
I firmly believe that anyone with depression or panic attacks should immediately quit all caffeine permanently as it will eventually catch up with them.
As for the cleanses, that's a really good idea that can do nothing but help, I'm sure. I've actually done a few of those, now and am very positive it has made a difference. Also, eating a lot of vegetables and fruits do the same thing.
And as for me being off for 35 days, I'm not out of the woods yet, but, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone.
I heard a very interesting piece of information from a friend of mine who happens to be a nurse. She told me that coming off of any anti-depressant takes approximately 2 months or more (not just Remeron)
But, in any case, just as a warning to you, Tired, and that is for the first few days after taking your final dosage of Remeron, you'll likely feel pretty good, but after that the withdrawal will kick in almost assuredly. I don't want to scare you but just get you prepared for what to expect.
Oh, and by the way, the Remeron also makes you have high cravings for Carbohydrates so that would explain your high consumption of sugar.
I think by the sounds of it, though, you're definitely on the right track.
Anyhow, like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And please let us know how things are going in the next couple days.
Good Luck!!!
Jimbob
> Thank you both for your replies!
>
> It's now been 72 hours since I have taken even a little piece, I decided that was it, I need to get over it sooner or later anyway and I think at that little dosage, probably 1mg or less it wasn't doing me any good for either the anxiety or the withdrawl, so I said that's it. The first couple of days were hard, last night and this morning are a little better, I still have some pressure in my head, but it seems, just seems anyway that the symptoms are going away. I was only on Remeron for two weeks, I can't imagine Jim how you got off this stuff at all! Kudos to you!
>
> As for the panic, yes I think it is the same panic that was there before I started the meds. But maybe enhaced a bit by the withdrawl.
>
> I am not sure if I mentioned it or not, but I am now seeing a pychologist for Cognitive Behavioral Thearapy at a local hospital. Today will be my second time there, and it may take six months or more, but I think it has to be better than taking the medication, because in the long run I have to be able to manage the stress and anxiety that I have in my daily life, not just surpress it with medication.
>
> I hear both of you have cut refined sugar out of your diet completely, why? The only indication I can think of for why you feel better is because of candidia which is a yeast that grows in your intestines and feeds on this stuff. There is some evidence to support this. I have done several cleanses to rid myself of this nasty bacteria and honestly have felt a little better after the clense, felt like garbage on it let me tell you, all those nasty toxins running around in your blood stream make you feel like garbage, but afterwards if you can tolerate it you may feel better.
>
> Right now I am eating more sugar and other things that I have in a long long time. I think the Remeron really effected my appetite and it is still there, gonna take awhile I guess.
>
> Thansk again for your support!
>
> > Hey, Tired.
> >
> > Just a suggestion. As it usually takes a while to get acclimatized to Remeron. (It actually took me a month when I first started it). Try staying on that dose for a couple of weeks or so and then go down further. I think you're likely very correct in that the Remeron is not a good drug for you, Unfortunately, now, though, you are on it and in order for you to get away from it, I think you have to play it as if it were doing any good for you. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but, maybe you could try that. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say. It sounds like the symptoms you're having are definitely panic oriented, though. The headaches, as you're still on the medication, are a result of your normal panic that you had before. However, the shakes are a result of the actual medication, as most AD's will make you do this if you're going through withdrawal. I had exactly the same thing withdrawing from Remeron, Paxil and Effexor, but it was before I had made my dietary changes.
> >
> > As for me, I'm on my 35th day without Remeron and am still affected quite a bit. I've done everything, include cutting refined sugar right out of my diet for the time being, and still the symptoms are there. My symptoms are very similar to yours with the headaches, but a little depression is involved as well. However, it's still nowhere near what it was 10 1/2 years ago when I first started this whole schmozzle, so I think I'm still on the right track.
> >
> > In any case, keep pluggin along (I know it's extremely hard) and try to be as patient as possible. I think it will get better for you, eventually.
> >
> > Oh, and if I think of anything else, I'll most certainly let you know.
> >
> > Jimbob
> >
> > > I have a lot of pressure in my head, it feels like someone is squeezing me from from top to bottom. Light headaches. And moderate internal shaking. Some of that shakign can be seen on the outside as well. My heart feels like it will explode, moderate MVP. Blood pressure seems a bit low, resting pulse around 80-90bpm. Cannot sleep worth a darn. breathing is blocked a bit.
> > >
> > > A lot of these symptoms are panic themselves, but I feel worse now than I did before I starting taking this medication...
> >
> >
>
> when i was first withdrawing from the remeron i cut out all caffeine and most refined sugar, also cut back on refined foods in general (refined flour, processed & packaged foods etc.). it really helped with the anxiety. i didn't have headaches or pressure too bad but arnica and tylenol helped with the body aches and headaches, and drinking lots and lots of water. also regular exercise, yoga, walking, meditation...i think keeping the body moving as much as you can will really help with the symptoms. i hope all this helps and that you feel better soon...
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 18, 2006, at 4:19:57
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 2:23:13
Hi Jim,
So even though I only took 15mg for two weeks I am still going to have huge withdrawl problems in the coming days? I took 15mg for roughtly two weeks, and tapered for about 13 days. Because there was not a huge build up of Remeron in my body it shouldn't be that bad, obviously if I had stopped cold after two weeks on it I think there would be some problems, even the doctors say three days, half the dose and finish. Because I wasnt on it that long. God I hope I don't start having more problems in the next week or so. I have never felt 100% while on it anyway, so I hope I am out of the woods, I can't do two months of feeling like crap because of withdrawl, at least without medication I know most of the time I can work.
As for the Carbs, yes Remeron made me scarf down about 5 candy bars a day, a bunch of cookies, and I gained 9lbs in three weeks. I hope that weight starts to come off now that I have stopped taking it.
Anyway, we'll see what happens, I think I will be ok because of the small dosage I was on, the small amount of time I was on it, and the fact that I did still tapper it for almost two weeks. We'll see.
Thanks for your support. and I am glad you are feeling better, just think happy thoughts and dno't be afraid to talk to people if you need to. My therapy is going quite well, today I have found some issues that I hadn't thought about so clearly in the past, and now I need to deal with those emotions and let them free.
Cheers.
> Hey, np. What Jules said about the caffeine is definitely true. Caffeine and refined sugars have a tendency of making panic and depression a lot worse, and sometimes even make things worse when combined witn AD's. I've actually been off all caffeine for 10 years as it eventually made me have blackouts in addition to severe panic attacks.
>
> I firmly believe that anyone with depression or panic attacks should immediately quit all caffeine permanently as it will eventually catch up with them.
>
> As for the cleanses, that's a really good idea that can do nothing but help, I'm sure. I've actually done a few of those, now and am very positive it has made a difference. Also, eating a lot of vegetables and fruits do the same thing.
>
> And as for me being off for 35 days, I'm not out of the woods yet, but, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone.
>
> I heard a very interesting piece of information from a friend of mine who happens to be a nurse. She told me that coming off of any anti-depressant takes approximately 2 months or more (not just Remeron)
>
> But, in any case, just as a warning to you, Tired, and that is for the first few days after taking your final dosage of Remeron, you'll likely feel pretty good, but after that the withdrawal will kick in almost assuredly. I don't want to scare you but just get you prepared for what to expect.
>
> Oh, and by the way, the Remeron also makes you have high cravings for Carbohydrates so that would explain your high consumption of sugar.
>
> I think by the sounds of it, though, you're definitely on the right track.
>
> Anyhow, like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And please let us know how things are going in the next couple days.
>
> Good Luck!!!
>
> Jimbob
>
>
>
Posted by Jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 18:52:29
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 18, 2006, at 4:19:57
Tired. Did I read correctly in that you consumed 5 chocolate bars a day? If that's the case, no wonder you're having severe panic attacks, lol. Normal refined sugar isn't too bad, but when you add caffeine like you have, you're going to be really shaky and irritable, guaranteed. If you can at least substitute the chocolate for something else with sugar in it, then maybe that will help. I do know what it's like to consume a whole bag of cookies in one day, though. The Remeron made me crave that all the time.
So, in other words, if you continue to consume chocolate AKA major caffeine, you're going to have problems.
I can almost guarantee the symptoms will subside eventually if you do that, that is once the caffeine withdrawal symptoms are gone, lol.
Hope I haven't been too abrupt but you need to do that.
Talk to you later,
Jimbob
> Hi Jim,
>
> So even though I only took 15mg for two weeks I am still going to have huge withdrawl problems in the coming days? I took 15mg for roughtly two weeks, and tapered for about 13 days. Because there was not a huge build up of Remeron in my body it shouldn't be that bad, obviously if I had stopped cold after two weeks on it I think there would be some problems, even the doctors say three days, half the dose and finish. Because I wasnt on it that long. God I hope I don't start having more problems in the next week or so. I have never felt 100% while on it anyway, so I hope I am out of the woods, I can't do two months of feeling like crap because of withdrawl, at least without medication I know most of the time I can work.
>
> As for the Carbs, yes Remeron made me scarf down about 5 candy bars a day, a bunch of cookies, and I gained 9lbs in three weeks. I hope that weight starts to come off now that I have stopped taking it.
>
> Anyway, we'll see what happens, I think I will be ok because of the small dosage I was on, the small amount of time I was on it, and the fact that I did still tapper it for almost two weeks. We'll see.
>
> Thanks for your support. and I am glad you are feeling better, just think happy thoughts and dno't be afraid to talk to people if you need to. My therapy is going quite well, today I have found some issues that I hadn't thought about so clearly in the past, and now I need to deal with those emotions and let them free.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> > Hey, np. What Jules said about the caffeine is definitely true. Caffeine and refined sugars have a tendency of making panic and depression a lot worse, and sometimes even make things worse when combined witn AD's. I've actually been off all caffeine for 10 years as it eventually made me have blackouts in addition to severe panic attacks.
> >
> > I firmly believe that anyone with depression or panic attacks should immediately quit all caffeine permanently as it will eventually catch up with them.
> >
> > As for the cleanses, that's a really good idea that can do nothing but help, I'm sure. I've actually done a few of those, now and am very positive it has made a difference. Also, eating a lot of vegetables and fruits do the same thing.
> >
> > And as for me being off for 35 days, I'm not out of the woods yet, but, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone.
> >
> > I heard a very interesting piece of information from a friend of mine who happens to be a nurse. She told me that coming off of any anti-depressant takes approximately 2 months or more (not just Remeron)
> >
> > But, in any case, just as a warning to you, Tired, and that is for the first few days after taking your final dosage of Remeron, you'll likely feel pretty good, but after that the withdrawal will kick in almost assuredly. I don't want to scare you but just get you prepared for what to expect.
> >
> > Oh, and by the way, the Remeron also makes you have high cravings for Carbohydrates so that would explain your high consumption of sugar.
> >
> > I think by the sounds of it, though, you're definitely on the right track.
> >
> > Anyhow, like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And please let us know how things are going in the next couple days.
> >
> > Good Luck!!!
> >
> > Jimbob
> >
> >
> >
Posted by LIFE on August 18, 2006, at 22:55:36
In reply to JIM AS A SOURCE OF INFO AND SUPPORT, posted by LIFE on August 11, 2006, at 15:16:41
I really hate to hear ya'll are having such a hard time with the sugar cravings, it's hell when there are candy bars and cookies everywhere. Not to mention the doughnuts and fried pies, my favorites. Because of the depression, though I am not plagued with the fear of weight gain, I have had to replace refined sugars and beat chocoholism with natural sugars. Fruit consumption is the first line of defense, but you need a way to actually satisfy the cravings monster. Try frozen fruit slushes and juice every kind of fruit you can get your hands on. Carb cravings can be cut by juicing raw white or Irish potatoes with apples. If you find your natural juices are not sweet enough add a pinch of white stevia, green stevia does not mix well, and the white gives you the psychological satisfaction of using what looks like sugar. Stevia is wonderful on fruits of all kinds that are not sweet enough, it sweetens them better than white sugar, believe it or not. After a glass of potato and apple juice( sweet potatoes are good too), you will notice your craving for breads and cooked carbs strangely satisfied. Juice two more glasses of anything fruit( try to limit the purity of your juices to two ingredients, you will better manage the routine that way, in a couple of days you will crave the clean juices. When in a hurry, buy natural unsweetened frozen fruits, strawberries, peaches, blueberries, add stevia and whip a slush in your blender, add yogurt (antidote to bad candidus, fights yeast infections and irritable bowel syndrome, or a non-dairy coffee creamer for a smoothie affect, and good luck. Sugar cravings are the worst and not at all good for any of our maladies. Hope this helps! Let me know. And a juiced potato with apples tastes better than you think, and raw metabolizes in your system better and does not cause weight gain. Good luck, fellas, redundantly "hang in there" you both have a good number of clean days under your belts be sure to give yourselves credit for that! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 0:53:33
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by Jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 18:52:29
Hi Jim..
Sometimes more than 5, plus cookies! ha ha. I'm not oveweight either Jim, that's the funny thing about it, any girl that reads that is gonna be angry but...
anyway you are probably right, the chocolate probably isn't helping the matter, but I am addicted, its worse than any medication, I LOVE CHOCOLATE! That's a big problem. I need to ween myself off of it, I can't just stop, before taking the Remeron, actually I was much better than I was before, but after taking it, I wanted it again.
Honestly though, I am not sure how much caffinne is in a chocolate bar, I need to look that up, I think I would have to eat like more than 5 to have the same amount that's in a cup of coffee.
I was going to ask you guys also as I forgot yesturday.. If, now that I have stopped Remeron, and you guys have warned me that the withdrawl symptoms may come in a week or so, can you tell me exactely what symptoms will come and how exactley am I going to feel when they do come?
Thanks,
ToP
> Tired. Did I read correctly in that you consumed 5 chocolate bars a day? If that's the case, no wonder you're having severe panic attacks, lol. Normal refined sugar isn't too bad, but when you add caffeine like you have, you're going to be really shaky and irritable, guaranteed. If you can at least substitute the chocolate for something else with sugar in it, then maybe that will help. I do know what it's like to consume a whole bag of cookies in one day, though. The Remeron made me crave that all the time.
>
> So, in other words, if you continue to consume chocolate AKA major caffeine, you're going to have problems.
>
> I can almost guarantee the symptoms will subside eventually if you do that, that is once the caffeine withdrawal symptoms are gone, lol.
>
> Hope I haven't been too abrupt but you need to do that.
>
> Talk to you later,
>
> Jimbob
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 19, 2006, at 4:51:23
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 0:53:33
You're going to be surprised when I say this, ToP. But, there's actually more caffeine in one chocolate bar then there is in one cup of coffee. Yes, that's very true. Enough said, lol.
And life has mentioned some very good alternatives, too. So, hint, hint, wink, wink, get off da caffeine, OK, lol?
As for the symptoms, I suspect that it may vary from person to person as a lot of depression and panic related symptoms do.
With me, and I still have these, I get headaches, ears ring, depression (weepiness) and a bit of paranoia along with the withdrawals. Other people have experienced the shakes and irritability, as well.
Can anyone else help out here?
Jimbob
> Hi Jim..
>
> Sometimes more than 5, plus cookies! ha ha. I'm not oveweight either Jim, that's the funny thing about it, any girl that reads that is gonna be angry but...
>
> anyway you are probably right, the chocolate probably isn't helping the matter, but I am addicted, its worse than any medication, I LOVE CHOCOLATE! That's a big problem. I need to ween myself off of it, I can't just stop, before taking the Remeron, actually I was much better than I was before, but after taking it, I wanted it again.
>
> Honestly though, I am not sure how much caffinne is in a chocolate bar, I need to look that up, I think I would have to eat like more than 5 to have the same amount that's in a cup of coffee.
>
> I was going to ask you guys also as I forgot yesturday.. If, now that I have stopped Remeron, and you guys have warned me that the withdrawl symptoms may come in a week or so, can you tell me exactely what symptoms will come and how exactley am I going to feel when they do come?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ToP
>
>
>
> > Tired. Did I read correctly in that you consumed 5 chocolate bars a day? If that's the case, no wonder you're having severe panic attacks, lol. Normal refined sugar isn't too bad, but when you add caffeine like you have, you're going to be really shaky and irritable, guaranteed. If you can at least substitute the chocolate for something else with sugar in it, then maybe that will help. I do know what it's like to consume a whole bag of cookies in one day, though. The Remeron made me crave that all the time.
> >
> > So, in other words, if you continue to consume chocolate AKA major caffeine, you're going to have problems.
> >
> > I can almost guarantee the symptoms will subside eventually if you do that, that is once the caffeine withdrawal symptoms are gone, lol.
> >
> > Hope I haven't been too abrupt but you need to do that.
> >
> > Talk to you later,
> >
> > Jimbob
>
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 6:54:43
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 19, 2006, at 4:51:23
Well crap then, I need to find something that tastes like chocolate then because Ic an't stop that... Or maybe I should take up coffee drinking... HAHAHAA
Ok well. you made your point, now I have to determine what course of action I need to take.. What a pain in the butt.
As for the withdrawl symptoms, well, I have already experienced some of that, and have passed it off as anxiety, so... anyway.... I was very irritable, even fits of rage, while on Remeron, so... it can't get much worse than it already was..
Thanks for the answers.
Posted by LIFE on August 20, 2006, at 15:16:25
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 19, 2006, at 4:51:23
Dear Tired of Panic, Point blank...There is no substitute for chocolate. Trust me. I love chocolate. I was allergic as a child. I would drink chocolate milk at school and break out with a terrible rash that covered my thighs. The constant scratching gave me away to my mother. I continued to consume chocolate in any form until my body became immune to its affects. There is this stuff called carob, but it is to chocolate connoisseurs what turkey bacon is to a pork lover, it just don't taste the same. The only thing that works for me when I fall off the choco-train is to counteract the affects of the caffeine with a pinch of valerian root. Half teaspoon of Valerian root in your coffee will eliminate the shakes caused by the caffeine. A pinch between the cheek and jaw will have the same affect after consuming chocolate. It will help with counteracting the caffeine, but I have no answer for counteracting the caloric factor. And I apologize, I know what happens during withdrawal from Remeron as it pertains to depression, but I don't have panic attacks so I hesitate offering any advice because, from reading other entries, I think withdrawal symptoms might be a little more involved than I would understand. However, your ability and willingness to make entries proves that you are maintaining good control of your body and mind thus far without meds, congrats! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 2:17:53
In reply to Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by LIFE on August 20, 2006, at 15:16:25
Life, thank you.
However, even though I don't take medication that does not mean my quality of life is good. I still suffer days where I cannot do much because I either am too disoriented, tired, eyes blurred over, etc. Somedays just lack motivation, but few. I feel good about 5-10 days a month, the rest of the time I am fighting with it. Luckily I have a job that I enjoy, regardless if it makes a lot of money or not and is very stressful, I enjoy it but sooner or later I think things are going to change if money doesn' start rolling in soon.
As for Chocolate, I'm in trouble then... How long is this caffeine going to stay in my system and how long is the withdrawl going to take? I go in cycles, I can go a month without eating chocolate but then I come back with avengents and eat everything in site.
I am not sure if I can get Valverian root where I am, but I will look for it.
> Dear Tired of Panic, Point blank...There is no substitute for chocolate. Trust me. I love chocolate. I was allergic as a child. I would drink chocolate milk at school and break out with a terrible rash that covered my thighs. The constant scratching gave me away to my mother. I continued to consume chocolate in any form until my body became immune to its affects. There is this stuff called carob, but it is to chocolate connoisseurs what turkey bacon is to a pork lover, it just don't taste the same. The only thing that works for me when I fall off the choco-train is to counteract the affects of the caffeine with a pinch of valerian root. Half teaspoon of Valerian root in your coffee will eliminate the shakes caused by the caffeine. A pinch between the cheek and jaw will have the same affect after consuming chocolate. It will help with counteracting the caffeine, but I have no answer for counteracting the caloric factor. And I apologize, I know what happens during withdrawal from Remeron as it pertains to depression, but I don't have panic attacks so I hesitate offering any advice because, from reading other entries, I think withdrawal symptoms might be a little more involved than I would understand. However, your ability and willingness to make entries proves that you are maintaining good control of your body and mind thus far without meds, congrats! Life
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 21, 2006, at 19:19:45
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 6:54:43
Hey, Tired.
Heh, heh, sorry to use the scare tactics like that on ya! And I won't go on too much more about that because I think you definitely get my point, lol.
But, I will say that it seems like you're keeping a good sense of humour about everything and that is definitely a good sign.
With everything that's going on, especially the irritability that you've spoken about, it's certainly hard to do that.
Fits of rage describes to a "tee" what I went through while on all three anti-depressants that I was on (which I was on for a total of 10 years). Just think of what a great combination that the rage made with my military career, lol.
And you also get a bit of that with the withdrawal, too.
Now that I've been off for 38 days now, the rage is totally gone, but, I still have some of the sadness and headaches.
Hopefully for you, like you've said, because you were only on the Remeron for a couple of weeks that your body hasn't time to totally acclimatize to it. I think that you likely have a much better chance of not having severe withdrawal symptoms for that reason. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya in any regard.
TC for now.
Jim
> Well crap then, I need to find something that tastes like chocolate then because Ic an't stop that... Or maybe I should take up coffee drinking... HAHAHAA
>
> Ok well. you made your point, now I have to determine what course of action I need to take.. What a pain in the butt.
>
> As for the withdrawl symptoms, well, I have already experienced some of that, and have passed it off as anxiety, so... anyway.... I was very irritable, even fits of rage, while on Remeron, so... it can't get much worse than it already was..
>
> Thanks for the answers.
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 21, 2006, at 19:39:33
In reply to Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by LIFE on August 20, 2006, at 15:16:25
Hey, Life. That's really interesting about the valerian root. How did you find out about all this stuff, did you find out about it through a naturopath? Just wondering. And do you know if it or anything like it can counteract any other foodstuff that makes the panic/depression worse?
Jimmy Bob.
> Dear Tired of Panic, Point blank...There is no substitute for chocolate. Trust me. I love chocolate. I was allergic as a child. I would drink chocolate milk at school and break out with a terrible rash that covered my thighs. The constant scratching gave me away to my mother. I continued to consume chocolate in any form until my body became immune to its affects. There is this stuff called carob, but it is to chocolate connoisseurs what turkey bacon is to a pork lover, it just don't taste the same. The only thing that works for me when I fall off the choco-train is to counteract the affects of the caffeine with a pinch of valerian root. Half teaspoon of Valerian root in your coffee will eliminate the shakes caused by the caffeine. A pinch between the cheek and jaw will have the same affect after consuming chocolate. It will help with counteracting the caffeine, but I have no answer for counteracting the caloric factor. And I apologize, I know what happens during withdrawal from Remeron as it pertains to depression, but I don't have panic attacks so I hesitate offering any advice because, from reading other entries, I think withdrawal symptoms might be a little more involved than I would understand. However, your ability and willingness to make entries proves that you are maintaining good control of your body and mind thus far without meds, congrats! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 21:14:17
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 21, 2006, at 19:19:45
Hi Jim,,
You know this community is very good in supporting each other. I paid US$5 on antoher website last year or longer to have a doc tell me how to taper Xanax correctly, and his reply was two sentences and you couldnt ask another question unless you paid another $5. How ridiculous is that. I am very happy that I found this site and kudos to the maker!
Anyway, yes I try to be humourous otherwise I would go nuts, but there are times I just want to pack it in as I get tired of not sleeping well, always waking up with a fast heart beat, numbness in my hands, which I suppose could be do to other conditions like not exercising.. but anyway...
Oh yeah fits of rage in the miltary probably went over real well! ha ha, but that's funny!
As for the withdrawl symptoms, as I said I am not sure I would recognize them anyway as pretty much everyday for the last 2 months I have felt like crap, we'll see though..
> Hey, Tired.
>
> Heh, heh, sorry to use the scare tactics like that on ya! And I won't go on too much more about that because I think you definitely get my point, lol.
>
> But, I will say that it seems like you're keeping a good sense of humour about everything and that is definitely a good sign.
>
> With everything that's going on, especially the irritability that you've spoken about, it's certainly hard to do that.
>
> Fits of rage describes to a "tee" what I went through while on all three anti-depressants that I was on (which I was on for a total of 10 years). Just think of what a great combination that the rage made with my military career, lol.
>
> And you also get a bit of that with the withdrawal, too.
>
> Now that I've been off for 38 days now, the rage is totally gone, but, I still have some of the sadness and headaches.
>
> Hopefully for you, like you've said, because you were only on the Remeron for a couple of weeks that your body hasn't time to totally acclimatize to it. I think that you likely have a much better chance of not having severe withdrawal symptoms for that reason. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya in any regard.
>
> TC for now.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> > Well crap then, I need to find something that tastes like chocolate then because Ic an't stop that... Or maybe I should take up coffee drinking... HAHAHAA
> >
> > Ok well. you made your point, now I have to determine what course of action I need to take.. What a pain in the butt.
> >
> > As for the withdrawl symptoms, well, I have already experienced some of that, and have passed it off as anxiety, so... anyway.... I was very irritable, even fits of rage, while on Remeron, so... it can't get much worse than it already was..
> >
> > Thanks for the answers.
>
>
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 22, 2006, at 13:49:43
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 21:14:17
Hi Jim,
I found the information about that OTC medicine for anxiety that starts with a C. It is called Clarocet http://www.clarocet.com/, maybe I need to post a message on other boards to see if anyone has tried this stuff and if it works. I found this last year, no doctor here seems to know it.
Also, a question about the caffinee issues. Generally how long would one go before starting to feel the effects of the withdrawl and also how long will it last?
Posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:29:56
In reply to Re: Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 2:17:53
Hey there guys, sorry I have been absent from our discussions for a minute, I needed to travel to check on my parents. In answer to your question, Jim, I consult with a lot of natural healers in my area and am a non-practicing massage therapist(during a depressed period I allowed my certification to lapse by not paying my yearly fees, How stupid was that? Now I need additional classes to recertify and take the state test again. How stupid was that? Especially since I cannot afford them now), so I have known about the benefits of Valerian root for quite some time. I also brew it regularly in my coffee and I still eat chocolate so I have to neutralize the caffeine or it overrides the affect of my meds. I get the caffeine shakes within minutes of consuming coffee that has not been infused with Valerian. And, like you, Tired of Panic, Snickers bars are a favorite of my entire family, I just had about ten of those bite-sized snack ones in the gold wrappers at my mother's house. She keeps them in the candy dish. If you cannot find Valerian root locally, log onto www.viable-herbal.com or search Viable Herbal Solutions-gives you detailed descriptions of herbs and their uses as well as contraindications, and you can order on line. They carry bulk herbs, my favorite because I have greater control over how I want to use the herbs ( brewing as teas, adding them to soups or cooking with them) In my coffee maker, I add directly to the glass pot 1 tablespoon of Valerian root while adding coffee grounds through the filtration system as usual, once the coffee is brewed I add two packs of powdered cocoa mix and four tablespoons of nondairy coffee creamer. I let the brew steep for about thirty minutes because Valerian in bulk form looks like large granules of sand and are quite hard so they need a chance to soften. I remove the pot , sweeten to taste with white stevia or sugar, I pre-measure into plastic cups and freeze. With the Valerian brewed directly into the coffee I don't feel the affects of the caffeine at all. When I eat as much chocolate as I have today, I need to go to the kitchen soon and make a cup of Chamomile and Valerian tea or I will be sugar rushing later. I've also had chocolate chip cookies, a bowl of Frosted Flakes and regular bottled tea. See, I have a hard time denying myself the simple pleasures of sugar and caffeine, so I do my best to neutralize the negative effects. My parents swear they are too old and life is too short not to enjoy these things, when in Rome... According to the Vegans I know, meat, sugar, and caffeine are contributors to my depression. I tried going vegan but I felt even more depressed and seriously deprived. So I antidote using herbs. I'm still trying to find an herbal combination strong enough to combat the bouts of sadness and hopelessness I suffered with prior to being prescribed the combo of Wellbutrin and Remeron. I was sad to the point of non-function, and I hated my job. However I see we have in common the need for money to come in at a slightly higher rate because financial worries do contribute greatly to my suffering when not medicated. That's why I fear getting off my meds at this time. I just can't afford to sleep for days or be awake nights. My cats and I are living on the poverty line and momma has to be fully functional right now if we are to survive, my parents are getting on in age and should be enjoying retirement rather than trying to siphon funds to help me. When I have to withdraw or cleanse from the meds I immediately lose sleep and fall into obsessive worry. I don't have headaches, but my thinking becomes extremely chaotic, I have trouble making the simplest decisions. The herbs that I use help the physical symtoms, headaches, bodyaches, tightness in the shoulders, and my skin is lovely, but I have not found the right combination to help with the mental symptoms, the obsessive worry over finances, extreme disorganization of thoughts, inability to make the simplest life decisions, and the dark feelings of hopelessness and loss of self-worth, but I am still looking. I research herbs and try different combinations, but I have not found the magic one yet. I have not heard of the anti- depressant you mentioned either, is it herbal or prescribed? I'm going to ask around about it, I'll let you know what I find out. I know you are not depression free but your spirits are good, keep fighting and as you struggle on those bad days at least you know we understand you are not just being lazy and are doing your best to have a pleasant and productive day. Life
Posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:39:32
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 22, 2006, at 13:49:43
Duh... you did enter OTC, over the counter, thanks, I am going to the Clarocet website as soon as I counteract my sugar overdose! I may act as a guinnea-pig if it won't kill me with the meds I already have in my system. I'm excited to know there is something over the counter! Good going, Jim, and T-o-P! I'll let you know if I try it how it feels! Life
Posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:52:59
In reply to Re: Tired of Panic caffeine consumption, posted by tiredofpanic on August 21, 2006, at 2:17:53
My curiosity got the better of me, I checked the ingredients profile of Clarocet and it looks pretty herbal to me, containing Valerian , Chamomile, and Hops( I tried as an isolated herb), as soon as I garner the funds and estimate which formula would be right for me I'm more than positive I will be trying the product, the company has combined the herbs for me. Thanks again Jim and T-o-P! I am soooo excited having recognized its herbal components, especially since I am familiar with many of them! Oh, happy, day!!!!! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 24, 2006, at 14:55:54
In reply to Tired of Panic Clarocet, posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:39:32
Hi Life,
I believe Clarocet is OTC, at least from their website it sure as heck looks like you can order it. This stuff is for anxiety and panic though it looks like, but it also seems they have something, seems perfect for me as I can't sleep sometimes recently until 5-6am, for nighttime usage. The pills aren't that expensive, but if you order a years supply wow the price drops!
Life it seems like you have depression and not anxiety am I correct? I would be really interested to know what you think of these if you order them and try them and be our little guinnea pig! ha ha! ;-) I am very curious about this. I saw these gosh, its been...over a year now I think.
I will have some more questions for your later about your previous post about Valerian Root. I am in Asia now so I may be able to get this stuff from a Chinese doctor or Pharmacy, I am just not sure if it is fresh or not.
I will write more later, i want to actually try to get to bed before 4am.
Tired
> Duh... you did enter OTC, over the counter, thanks, I am going to the Clarocet website as soon as I counteract my sugar overdose! I may act as a guinnea-pig if it won't kill me with the meds I already have in my system. I'm excited to know there is something over the counter! Good going, Jim, and T-o-P! I'll let you know if I try it how it feels! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 24, 2006, at 14:58:16
In reply to Clarocet, posted by LIFE on August 24, 2006, at 14:52:59
you are welcome Life. I am just glad I was able to remember the name of it FINALLY! I have also been trying to remember for several months, as I said I found it last year and then I couldn't find it again. I asked my doctor about it some time ago, but they didn't know it, and most likely even if they did they would have told me, nah you need REAL medication, so actually I am glad they didn't know it.
Anyway, as I said, I need to get my butt to bed.
Posted by LIFE on August 25, 2006, at 5:34:09
In reply to Re: Tired of Panic Clarocet, posted by tiredofpanic on August 24, 2006, at 14:55:54
I don't know the time variant in Asia, but it is 4:55 a.m. here in the U.S., Tired-o-P, I cheated and did not take my Remeron. Yep, it's that easy for me to induce insomnia! Just don't take a dose and I am up and running. I think I'll take it at 5:30 a.m. and sleep until about 10:30 a.m., ha,ha. Yes, I am what I consider a classic clinical case of pure depression, black holes are my speciality. I am definitely going to look into the Clarocet, but when I say I exist at poverty level, I mean that literally. My internet privileges are courtesy of my younger sibling. My meds are free from the state, but Clarocet is one of those things I am determined to sacrifice a few things to try it. The herbal content cannot be denied and I would be cheating myself if I didn't try it. You can get some mighty good herbs in Asia, and most root herbs really have no freshness barometer as do the leaves and flowers ( and if leaves and flowers are dried, they have a longer life than do fresh ones, like dried parsley v.s. fresh parsley) So you should be able to find some good quality Valerian in such an herbally rich culture. Have you tried acupuncture therapy during your stay in Asia? That's something else I have been curious about. Does it piss you off to have attacks while you are in such a beautiful place since our illnesses often cause us to view life from the vantage point of the illness? That's when I am the most angry and guilty, when I am trying to count my blessings and feel joy from the depths of my black hole. Get some good sleep, I am going to try to do the same. Thanks again for the Clarocet tip, even if it allows me to just reduce the amount of Remeron I require I will be eternally grateful. As soon as I am able to try it I will be happy to share its effectiveness on my depression with you and Jimbo (are you there, Jimbo? How are you progressing?) Good morning all, I will be in touch. All you believers in herbal therapy, check out that Clarocet website! See Tired of Panic entries. I don't know the level of purity of the herbs and have not finished researching the ingredients that I am not already familiar with, but I am definitely impressed that the herbs I already use are included. 5:28 a.m.! Gotta go take my drugs so I can make some art and income later today! I'm out! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 25, 2006, at 5:56:39
In reply to VALERIAN / CLAROCET, posted by LIFE on August 25, 2006, at 5:34:09
Well, I am also considering to buy a small quantity of the clarocet to give it a try. But I don't really expect any results, I just take it and see how it goes.
Indeed I have looked at teh website again and they do have stuff for depression as well.
I live in northern Asia, not such a beautiful place as I am not on the beach, ha ha, and I think this is partly what is feeding the anxiety is the fact that even though I have lived here for years I can't get used to or accept some of the stuff that goes on.
As for accupuncture, I tried it once for some back pain. It helped, but I felt really tired and really dizzy for about 3-5 days afterwords. I decided that was enough. However, for panic, I have not thought about it. But with the variety of herbs and some of them that you mentioned, I am goign to get a translation and see if I can fidn them, if I can find them locally, boy will it be much cheaper and no importing issues.
Cheers, take your Remeron and get some sleep.
Posted by LIFE on August 26, 2006, at 1:04:16
In reply to Re: VALERIAN / CLAROCET, posted by tiredofpanic on August 25, 2006, at 5:56:39
Hey there T-o-P, did you ever get to bed? Or, were you up early? Anyhoo, sorry to hear that on such a large continent you seem to be in a bleak place, however, if it is as bleak as you say, then it is probably very colloquial and filled with natural healers, readers, and such. Thanks for the acupuncture info. I am about to go back to the Clarocet site and compile a list the ingredients, I am off to A Moveable Feast and Whole foods tomorrow...I might be able to concoct my own formula, wouldn't that be a hoot? When you take your first dosage let me know how it makes you feel, even if it is a minute or no change at all. I talked to my therapist today and he claims not to have heard of Clarocet either, but I am a certified ward of the state and "fersure" their lab rat. I also asked about panic and anxiety symptoms. He suspects that I have anxiety attacks when I am in the throes of depression in the form of agoraphobia, since I am very reluctant to go out of the house when I am down. But, I just hate being around people when I am having an episode and I sweat a little because I am aware of my short-term memory problems when I am out there and vulnerable. I don't recall any hyperventilating or heart palpitations or headaches, just an acute awareness that I am out there amongst the populace when I would rather be hiding at home, so that still does not sound a lot like a real panic attack to me, once I can force myself to get dressed and am out I'm usually o.k. What does a real panic or anxiety attack look or feel like? Is it a public meltdown? How can I be supportive when someone is having an attack? You know, what can I do to perhaps ease the tension for them? Jim? Still haven't heard how you are doing out there. Haven't heard from any of the ladies trying to kick Remeron lately either! Tired-o-P, wish me luck on my quest to outdo Clarocet. I will let you know what I find after I have cooked up a home brew if that is indeed possible. Nighty-night all, happy withdrawal! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 26, 2006, at 3:15:38
In reply to Clarocet - panic attacks vs. depression, posted by LIFE on August 26, 2006, at 1:04:16
Hi Life,
I actually got to bed around midnight last night for a change after staying up nearly 36 hours to try to reset my clock, I was tired and I slept, for about five hours that is. I think the docs really messed me up with all their trial and errros, now I need to nap in the afternoon sometimes twice. It's getting to be a royal pain in the you know what.
A panic attack:
rapid heart beat, feelings of impending doom, its like you are being taken out of your body and are really disconnected, some times shaking, some times severe shaking can occur, very cold, heart attack symptoms, stroke symptoms, rapid breathing, difficult breathing, numbness, blured eyes, feelings that you will die, disoriented, palpatations, arithmia, blood pressure issues, there are a few more. the first time I had a panic attack I thought I was having a heart attack, went to the hospital, they gave me a seditive IV, did some blood tests and came back to tell me I was hyperventalating and should see someone in their pyschiatric department, when the doc said that I damn near disconnected myself from teh IV and walked out of the hospital thinking, hyperventalation? ok whatever, this is easy to control and get over. Boy was I wrong. and I think talking to my ADD doc was the stupidest thing I could have done because they put me on Xanax, I think they should have said, ok, you had a panic attack, so what, we'll monitor it for a few months and SEE what happens, just dont worry about anything, you're not going to die, yadda yadda yadda and and 28340% of people of this, yadda yadda yadda, have a nice day. But Nooooooooooooooooooooo they had to put me on the worse one at the very begnning which made me sooooooooooooooo scared it was unbelivable. Doctors really need to use caution, one attack does not mean you are doomed for life or need medication.
Good luck on cococting your own medication, if you can come up with something strong, better, that works faster and more effiecent let me know. I found out it will cost me about $100 to get three bottles to me, so I am considering now if I really want to order or not. If I can find Valerian root here I may try that first. Though Clarocet has some additional benefits especially for sleeping, which are needed! I just hope I can keep up what happend last night!
Life, or anyone else, do you ever wake up in the morning with a fast heart beat or chest pain of any kind? This happens to me quite a bit. I don't have any other health problems...
And yes a panic attack in public could be a meltdown or maybe not, I try to control them too much, which is bad, so I have never passed out or fell over from one, but I think it may be better to just let them happen rather than to stop them as you are suppressing a lot of stuff that wants to come out.
Anyway thats enough for today. Jim where are you? Did you climb into a hole or go on vacation? Next time take me with you! :-)
ToP
Posted by LIFE on August 27, 2006, at 22:22:12
In reply to Re: Clarocet - panic attacks vs. depression, posted by tiredofpanic on August 26, 2006, at 3:15:38
Hey there Tired-o'Panic, That is some description. I think I would surely perish under the pressure of such severe physical symptoms. Did Remeron help at all under such severe circumstances? It is very effective for depression, but, panic attacks, at least from your description, seem to require something more than induced sleep and clarity of thought. Is that why you have chosen not to take it any longer? When was your first attack? I know as a preteen and during high school I suffered from dysthemia-precursor to full blown depression-I experienced bouts of unexplained sadness and crying jags. Do you have triggers or does an attack just come upon you? I didn't know before, but, my previous career was a trigger, attempts to perform or look perfect are triggers. I cannot imagine what you all feel when these attacks happen, I thought feeling suicidal was bad, to actually physically be at death's door has got to be horrifying. I went on my sojourn to find the ingredients in Clarocet, but they've got me at the mushrooms and some of the enzymes. I have not been to many of the Asian herbologists in my area yet, so, I hope it is simply a matter of checking some of the more cultural herb suppliers. I'll keep you all updated. Still haven't heard from you Jimbo, spin a thread and let us know if everything is alright with you. Have you resumed medication? Or, are you still hanging with your yoga poses and strong will? I hope so. We are thinking about you and miss your tips for managing our ills. Life
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Withdrawal | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.