![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 297 to 321 of 488. Go back in thread:
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 9, 2006, at 16:39:28
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 13:48:55
Hi, TIRED. Sorry, I didn't mean to steer you wrong on this matter. All I meant was that some people, as I've noticed on this website, have taken a year or more to wean from Remeron, because the symptoms are so bad. And as much as I strongly dislike saying this, that some people actually do need AD's. But, I firmly believe that these AD's are only good as a temporary measure, until the "OH SO HELPFUL" doctors figure out what is causing their "panic" or "depression".
More problems are created because a lot of people are on this AD's a lot longer than they should be, and that's when their bodies and neurological systems get totally out of whack
All I'm suggesting is that if the withdrawal symptoms are too strong, then taper it a bit more and regardless you'll still need a lot of patience.
One question I do have for you, though is since you started taking Remeron, did your original symptoms subside at all or has Remeron just been a total hindrance?
And I know that I speak for a lot of other people on here in saying that we all have concern for you for things to get better.
Jim
> I can't imagine having to taper this drug for a year after only taking it for two weeks, the thought of having to do that is hopeless.
>
> I do not believe that medication is necessary to cure panic. Medication only treats the symptoms not the root of the problem. I don't know why I even started on this stuff, I just can't understand why after only two weeks on it I am having so much trouble getting off of it.
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 22:57:15
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 9, 2006, at 16:39:28
Jim,
The first day I took it I felt a soothing/smoothing sensation, however that was followed by a day later with very harsh side effects that forced me to reduce the dosage to 15mg. I took 15mg for 11 days with little noticable help. I have been having panic problems for almost two years. However, I have keep a diary for the last five months of my problem, there was a study done at Harvard and my sleep apnea test was put into this little program, I have some sleeping problems that may be the cause of the panic, but that is still left to be determined. I firmly beleive that anxiety and other panic disorders and sleep problems are all related to one another. Everyone with panic or anxiety needs a CBT psycholgist, medication may be needed, but I think a majority of the issues can be resolved with some relaxation techniques by a guided therapist, a learning of how to cope with the symptoms until they subside. I no longer worry so much about the symptoms that they increase in strength. I do still fear death sometimes, but the point is is that I have learned all of this is panic, I am not having a heart attack/stroke, other illnesses, etc. Sometimes it bothers me, but typcially only at night when I am ready to sleep. My day is very busy and the anxeity is there during the day, but I am able to ignore it 99% of the time and get my work done. I am either strong headed or have a serious panic problem that is only subdued by work. Strange. Anyway, I don't like medication and I have had enough, I am tired of the side effects and worry that comes along with taking these drugs, I feel they are all bad in one way or another, not just psych drugs, all drugs in general, if we eat healthy, do exercise and don't worry about things we cannot control, the world would be a very different place...
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 1:27:41
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 22:57:15
Hello again, Tired: I think you've likely hit the nail right on the head with regards to panic and some sleep disorders being related to another. I definitely agree. Except one thing, I think the cause of the sleep disorder is the panic. Basically, one doesn't sleep because they have a million things racing around in their heads, to the point where it causes extreme discomfort.
Obviously, you don't have a severe form of panic, if it can be kept at a minimal level by distracting utilizing work or exercise, etc.
Have you ever considered any natural AD's like St John's Wort or 5-HTP? These you can find at any health or natural food store or health section in your grocery store. These come nowhere close to having the adverse effects of what a normal AD can produce. I took 5-HTP for quite a while and it worked great until it interfered with the AD that I was taking. When you get off the Remeron for good, maybe (just a suggestion) you could try something like that.
As for actually getting off the Remeron, tapering is definitely a good idea. Normally, I would say to wait until you levelled off, before going on to the next level of tapering, however, because you've never really levelled off, I'm not really sure what to say there, because this is actually the first time for me that I've been able to get to the point of being anti-depressant free like I am now (first time in 10 1/2 years)(and I'm still not out of the woods yet).
So, I'll field this question to any other reader out there. Has anyone else out there had the same experience as TIRED has, where they never got used to the Remeron in the first place?
> Jim,
>
> The first day I took it I felt a soothing/smoothing sensation, however that was followed by a day later with very harsh side effects that forced me to reduce the dosage to 15mg. I took 15mg for 11 days with little noticable help. I have been having panic problems for almost two years. However, I have keep a diary for the last five months of my problem, there was a study done at Harvard and my sleep apnea test was put into this little program, I have some sleeping problems that may be the cause of the panic, but that is still left to be determined. I firmly beleive that anxiety and other panic disorders and sleep problems are all related to one another. Everyone with panic or anxiety needs a CBT psycholgist, medication may be needed, but I think a majority of the issues can be resolved with some relaxation techniques by a guided therapist, a learning of how to cope with the symptoms until they subside. I no longer worry so much about the symptoms that they increase in strength. I do still fear death sometimes, but the point is is that I have learned all of this is panic, I am not having a heart attack/stroke, other illnesses, etc. Sometimes it bothers me, but typcially only at night when I am ready to sleep. My day is very busy and the anxeity is there during the day, but I am able to ignore it 99% of the time and get my work done. I am either strong headed or have a serious panic problem that is only subdued by work. Strange. Anyway, I don't like medication and I have had enough, I am tired of the side effects and worry that comes along with taking these drugs, I feel they are all bad in one way or another, not just psych drugs, all drugs in general, if we eat healthy, do exercise and don't worry about things we cannot control, the world would be a very different place...
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 10, 2006, at 11:57:01
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 1:27:41
HI Jim,
Actually I believe that one causes the other, panic causes sleep problems and sleep problems cause the panic. I don't have a zillion things racing around in my head all the time. The biggest problem that keeps me from sleeping is the constant thumping of my heart, otherwise known as mitral valve prolapse, which I have been tested for twice, both times came up mild, which could indicate a sensitivity in the machines. Even one doctor told me NORMAL, you dont have any problems. So, actually I am not worried about it, it is just very annoying, but it does not happen every night. My problems come in cycles. The same days every month I feel great, and the same days every month i feel like crap, I have a record of this, so its quite interesting.
I don't know if I would say my panic is minimal. There are days that I cannot get anything done because I am completely disoriented, blurred vison, etc. And even though I can work most of the time, it does not mean that work is done 100% efficiently. I have my own business, and with that, comes stress, so, sometimes I think to myself, its no wonder I have anxeity..
I saw some remedy online some time ago and it started with a C. It was natural, over the counter, and they had three products on their website for this. And now I cannot find them... What I have done is done the lemonade diet, works pretty good, there is some evidence that suggests that panic is caused by intestial problems and I believe that. I also take magnesium suppliments, it also seems to help a little bit. B vitimins also helps alot. So these are things people can do to help themselves, it may not be a cureall but it should help at least a little bit. I haev also tried essential oils, massage, craniosacrol, reiki, praying, mediation, and on and on. Maybe I am not consistant enough... St. Johns Wart, as far as I am concerned is pretty useless.
Remeron... the wonder drug.. hmmm. I never really leveled off as you said, so I am winging it on my own. The doc said cut the 15mg in half, take that for three days and then stop, so that is what I did. Well... that didn't work, but today I feel a bit better in some areas, so I think I am going to try taking only 4mg tonight and not taking my 1mg topper offer in the morning and see if I can make it through the day without any big incidents.
I am glad you are AD free!! Congrats!!! Taking medication sucks.
Anyway, thats it for now, write ya again when I see a reply. :-)
Posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 12:01:35
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 1:27:41
SEE LIFE, 8-8-06, ST. JOHN'S WORT ALONE WILL NOT BE SUFFICIENT, THE BODY HAS BEEN DEPLETED OF SEVERAL KEY NUTRIENTS THAT BUOY DEPRESSION OR PANIC. JUST BECAUSE I STILL TAKE REMERON, DOESN'T MEAN THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WITHDRAW FROM IT. LIFE
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:46:16
In reply to NATURAL WITHDRAWAL-HERBS FOR, posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 12:01:35
Hello, Life. No, not suggesting that you don't know the proper way to withdraw from Remeron. I'm just trying to make suggestions to everyone, not just yourself. Like a lot of people have mentioned on here, everyone's physiology is different, so perhaps tapering more slowly is the answer, and at the same time before you go down a level in the weaning, make sure you at least are level for a week or two, before you do so. That's all I mean to say.
It's awfully frustrating, not just being on these medications, in a lot of cases for no reason other than the doctor was too lazy to find out what the root of the problem is, then they throw the Remeron Withdrawal factor in there to make things extremely difficult.
I'm on my 28th day without meds and still every day is a struggle, so I know exactly what you're going through.
I'm hoping that your already evident hard work and determination eventually pay off for you. It most certainly takes a lot of time and patience, doesn't it?
Cheers and I'll be hoping and wishing that things get better for eveyone on here.
Jim
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:54:04
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 10, 2006, at 11:57:01
Hi, TIRED,
You know, I think you're right, it is kind of a vicious cycle, isn't it. The more you panic, the less you sleep, and vice versa.
I tend to agree with you about St John's Wort, too. It didn't work very much for me, but, I do know that it works for other people. So, maybe like you say the best thing to do is to keep looking for a natural supplement that does work for you. 5-HTP works for me (now that the Remeron is slowly out of my system, it's working better), but, it doesn't work for a lot of people. If I see that one that starts with a "C", I'll let you know.
Ciao for now
Jim
> HI Jim,
>
> Actually I believe that one causes the other, panic causes sleep problems and sleep problems cause the panic. I don't have a zillion things racing around in my head all the time. The biggest problem that keeps me from sleeping is the constant thumping of my heart, otherwise known as mitral valve prolapse, which I have been tested for twice, both times came up mild, which could indicate a sensitivity in the machines. Even one doctor told me NORMAL, you dont have any problems. So, actually I am not worried about it, it is just very annoying, but it does not happen every night. My problems come in cycles. The same days every month I feel great, and the same days every month i feel like crap, I have a record of this, so its quite interesting.
>
> I don't know if I would say my panic is minimal. There are days that I cannot get anything done because I am completely disoriented, blurred vison, etc. And even though I can work most of the time, it does not mean that work is done 100% efficiently. I have my own business, and with that, comes stress, so, sometimes I think to myself, its no wonder I have anxeity..
>
> I saw some remedy online some time ago and it started with a C. It was natural, over the counter, and they had three products on their website for this. And now I cannot find them... What I have done is done the lemonade diet, works pretty good, there is some evidence that suggests that panic is caused by intestial problems and I believe that. I also take magnesium suppliments, it also seems to help a little bit. B vitimins also helps alot. So these are things people can do to help themselves, it may not be a cureall but it should help at least a little bit. I haev also tried essential oils, massage, craniosacrol, reiki, praying, mediation, and on and on. Maybe I am not consistant enough... St. Johns Wart, as far as I am concerned is pretty useless.
>
> Remeron... the wonder drug.. hmmm. I never really leveled off as you said, so I am winging it on my own. The doc said cut the 15mg in half, take that for three days and then stop, so that is what I did. Well... that didn't work, but today I feel a bit better in some areas, so I think I am going to try taking only 4mg tonight and not taking my 1mg topper offer in the morning and see if I can make it through the day without any big incidents.
>
> I am glad you are AD free!! Congrats!!! Taking medication sucks.
>
> Anyway, thats it for now, write ya again when I see a reply. :-)
>
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:56:45
In reply to Re: NATURAL WITHDRAWAL-HERBS FOR, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:46:16
And a furtherance to my last, Life. I agree that the herbal Anti-Depressant alone will not work as well. A proper diet including the appropriate vitamins are definitely the key, in addition to natural ad's.
> Hello, Life. No, not suggesting that you don't know the proper way to withdraw from Remeron. I'm just trying to make suggestions to everyone, not just yourself. Like a lot of people have mentioned on here, everyone's physiology is different, so perhaps tapering more slowly is the answer, and at the same time before you go down a level in the weaning, make sure you at least are level for a week or two, before you do so. That's all I mean to say.
>
> It's awfully frustrating, not just being on these medications, in a lot of cases for no reason other than the doctor was too lazy to find out what the root of the problem is, then they throw the Remeron Withdrawal factor in there to make things extremely difficult.
>
> I'm on my 28th day without meds and still every day is a struggle, so I know exactly what you're going through.
>
> I'm hoping that your already evident hard work and determination eventually pay off for you. It most certainly takes a lot of time and patience, doesn't it?
>
> Cheers and I'll be hoping and wishing that things get better for eveyone on here.
>
> Jim
Posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 18:18:33
In reply to Re: NATURAL WITHDRAWAL-HERBS FOR, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:56:45
HEY JIM, HOW ARE YOU? NO OFFENSE MEANT OR TAKEN, AFTER ALL, I AM NOT TRYING TO WITHDRAW FROM MY MEDS AT THIS TIME. JUST WANTED EMPHASIZE YOUR VERY POINT. OUR ILLNESSESS AFFECT US INDIVIDUALLY AND SO DO OUR COPING MECHANISMS, HOWEVER, ONE THING DOES NOT CHANGE, THE EFFECTS OF REMERON ON THE BODY'S IMMUNE SYSTEM THROUGH ITS AFFECT ON WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT AND GENDER REACTION TO THAT DEPLETION. WITHDRAWAL REQUIRES A REPLENISHMENT OF NUTRIENTS AND A REBUILDING OF THOSE CELLS. GENDER MUST BE CONSIDERED, WOMEN'S HORMONE LEVELS, VS. A GENTLEMAN'S TESTOSTERONE LEVELS, REQUIRE A DEFINITE WITHDRAWAL PROCESS MORE THAN JUST WEANING DOWN. WOMEN MUST DETERMINE THEIR OWN LEVEL OF PHYSICAL TOLERANCE AND REACTION WHEN COMING OFF ANY MEDICATION. DON'T WE DO THAT WHEN CONSIDERING BIRTH CONTROL METHODOLOGY, LADIES? CHILDBIRTH IS AN ISSUE. POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION IS AN ISSUE. THE CHANCES OF YOUR PSYCHE CHANGING AFTER CHILDBIRTH HAS TO BE CONSIDERED, ESPECIALLY IF YOUR HEALTH HAS AT SOME POINT REQUIRED A PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC DRUG. DON'T WE FOLLOW A PARTICULAR WITHDRAWAL SYSTEM OR REPLACEMENT THERAPY WHEN CHANGING OUR BIRTH CONTROL PILLS OR GOING THROUGH MENOPAUSE? DON'T WE HAVE AND TREAT PMS? DO THESE FACTORS NOT AFFECT OUR BODIES' MOOD REGULATING CHEMICALS? A WOMAN MUST ALSO HEED WARNINGS ACCOMPANYING HERBAL APPLICATIONS AS WELL AS PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONS WHEN NURSING. SO, WHILE WE ALL WANT TO HELP EACH OTHER, I AM SPEAKING FROM A WOMAN'S HEALTH PERSPECTIVE. ALSO, WHILE A LESS STRESSFUL WORK SITUATION, RELATIONSHIP, OR JUST GENERAL SUCKINESS OF LIFE IS A MAJOR FACTOR WHEN TALKING ABOUT OUR PSYCHES, THE CHEMISTRY OF OUR BODIES AND GENETIC PREDISPOSITIONS MUST ALWAYS BE CONSIDERED. I REPEAT, I ,TOO, HATE MEDICATIONS OF ANY TYPE, BUT, I HATE THE TIME I WASTE TRYING TO WILL MY DEPRESSION INTO SUBMISSION. SO, I PERIODICALLY CLEANSE MY SYSTEM, REPLACE THE SPECIFIC COMPONENTS DEPLETED BY SPECIFIC MEDICATIONS, AND CONTINUE TO SEARCH FOR ALTERNATIVES. BUT, REMEMBER, LADIES, YOUR WITHDRAWAL REQUIRES A DIFFERENT SCIENCE JUST AS DO YOUR VITAMINS, SUPPLEMENTS, AND EXERSISE REGIMENS. THAT'S ALL I AM SAYING. I CANNOT SPEAK FOR GENTLEMEN EXCEPT FROM A BROAD PERSPECTIVE AND OUR THERAPISTS DO ENOUGH GENERALIZING FOR ALL OF US. MY CONCERN IS THAT THE FEMALE PHYSIOLOGY MIGHT SEND ONE INTO A DEEPER PSYCHOLOGICAL EPISODE THAN ORIGINALLY EXPERIENCED IF WE DO NOT HANDLE THE PROCESS OF PHYSICAL WITHDRAWAL CAREFULLY, AS OUR FEMALE BODIES REQUIRE. MARCH ON SOLDIERS, AND THANKS, JIM, FOR CARING ABOUT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US ENOUGH TO RESPOND, CONTRIBUTE, AND KEEP A SUPPORTIVE THREAD GOING. I WILL TRY TO BE CLEARER WHEN OFFERING MY PERSPECTIVE FROM NOW ON, AS WELL. MY OPINIONS COME FROM EXPERIENCE WITH WOMEN AND THE MANY YEARS EXISTING AS ONE. LIFE
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 10, 2006, at 22:10:46
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:54:04
Jim, I found the website when I did a search or ways to cure panic and anxeity, but I do not remember the search term I used or how deep it was in the search engine. I just know each bottle had a color, blue, purple and green or red I think. It was not Kava, it was a more natural pill to take for those suffering from anxeity and panic.
Slept too good last night, could not get out of bed this morning even after 10, it was tough. But so far after only 8 hours though I do nto need to take my little topper offer 1mg in the morning so far. I am hoping I can last until bed time and then tapper more starting Monday. I think I am taking 3-4mg a day now.
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 11, 2006, at 0:20:19
In reply to CLEARER STATEMENT OF MY WITHDRAWAL OPINIONS, posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 18:18:33
Hey, Life. You definitely sound like you know what you're talking about. What I can't believe is that the doctors give women the same dosage of AD's as they do men. That alone has got to be a reason for it to be much harder when it comes to withdrawal symptoms due to the size difference between women and men alone.
And thanks much for your support, too. It's very much my pleasure to pass on any support that I can give. I'm beginning to realize that I don't exactly know everything there is to know about the subject, but if someone can feel comfort or glean useful information from me, then that's pretty cool.I'm actually having a pretty good evening, tonight. Perhaps it was because I was standing on my head, I'm not sure (lol), but, I do think that things can and will improve with just a little more patience.
Thanks again.
Jim
> HEY JIM, HOW ARE YOU? NO OFFENSE MEANT OR TAKEN, AFTER ALL, I AM NOT TRYING TO WITHDRAW FROM MY MEDS AT THIS TIME. JUST WANTED EMPHASIZE YOUR VERY POINT. OUR ILLNESSESS AFFECT US INDIVIDUALLY AND SO DO OUR COPING MECHANISMS, HOWEVER, ONE THING DOES NOT CHANGE, THE EFFECTS OF REMERON ON THE BODY'S IMMUNE SYSTEM THROUGH ITS AFFECT ON WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT AND GENDER REACTION TO THAT DEPLETION. WITHDRAWAL REQUIRES A REPLENISHMENT OF NUTRIENTS AND A REBUILDING OF THOSE CELLS. GENDER MUST BE CONSIDERED, WOMEN'S HORMONE LEVELS, VS. A GENTLEMAN'S TESTOSTERONE LEVELS, REQUIRE A DEFINITE WITHDRAWAL PROCESS MORE THAN JUST WEANING DOWN. WOMEN MUST DETERMINE THEIR OWN LEVEL OF PHYSICAL TOLERANCE AND REACTION WHEN COMING OFF ANY MEDICATION. DON'T WE DO THAT WHEN CONSIDERING BIRTH CONTROL METHODOLOGY, LADIES? CHILDBIRTH IS AN ISSUE. POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION IS AN ISSUE. THE CHANCES OF YOUR PSYCHE CHANGING AFTER CHILDBIRTH HAS TO BE CONSIDERED, ESPECIALLY IF YOUR HEALTH HAS AT SOME POINT REQUIRED A PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC DRUG. DON'T WE FOLLOW A PARTICULAR WITHDRAWAL SYSTEM OR REPLACEMENT THERAPY WHEN CHANGING OUR BIRTH CONTROL PILLS OR GOING THROUGH MENOPAUSE? DON'T WE HAVE AND TREAT PMS? DO THESE FACTORS NOT AFFECT OUR BODIES' MOOD REGULATING CHEMICALS? A WOMAN MUST ALSO HEED WARNINGS ACCOMPANYING HERBAL APPLICATIONS AS WELL AS PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONS WHEN NURSING. SO, WHILE WE ALL WANT TO HELP EACH OTHER, I AM SPEAKING FROM A WOMAN'S HEALTH PERSPECTIVE. ALSO, WHILE A LESS STRESSFUL WORK SITUATION, RELATIONSHIP, OR JUST GENERAL SUCKINESS OF LIFE IS A MAJOR FACTOR WHEN TALKING ABOUT OUR PSYCHES, THE CHEMISTRY OF OUR BODIES AND GENETIC PREDISPOSITIONS MUST ALWAYS BE CONSIDERED. I REPEAT, I ,TOO, HATE MEDICATIONS OF ANY TYPE, BUT, I HATE THE TIME I WASTE TRYING TO WILL MY DEPRESSION INTO SUBMISSION. SO, I PERIODICALLY CLEANSE MY SYSTEM, REPLACE THE SPECIFIC COMPONENTS DEPLETED BY SPECIFIC MEDICATIONS, AND CONTINUE TO SEARCH FOR ALTERNATIVES. BUT, REMEMBER, LADIES, YOUR WITHDRAWAL REQUIRES A DIFFERENT SCIENCE JUST AS DO YOUR VITAMINS, SUPPLEMENTS, AND EXERSISE REGIMENS. THAT'S ALL I AM SAYING. I CANNOT SPEAK FOR GENTLEMEN EXCEPT FROM A BROAD PERSPECTIVE AND OUR THERAPISTS DO ENOUGH GENERALIZING FOR ALL OF US. MY CONCERN IS THAT THE FEMALE PHYSIOLOGY MIGHT SEND ONE INTO A DEEPER PSYCHOLOGICAL EPISODE THAN ORIGINALLY EXPERIENCED IF WE DO NOT HANDLE THE PROCESS OF PHYSICAL WITHDRAWAL CAREFULLY, AS OUR FEMALE BODIES REQUIRE. MARCH ON SOLDIERS, AND THANKS, JIM, FOR CARING ABOUT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US ENOUGH TO RESPOND, CONTRIBUTE, AND KEEP A SUPPORTIVE THREAD GOING. I WILL TRY TO BE CLEARER WHEN OFFERING MY PERSPECTIVE FROM NOW ON, AS WELL. MY OPINIONS COME FROM EXPERIENCE WITH WOMEN AND THE MANY YEARS EXISTING AS ONE. LIFE
Posted by LIFE on August 11, 2006, at 15:16:41
In reply to Re: CLEARER STATEMENT OF MY WITHDRAWAL OPINIONS, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 11, 2006, at 0:20:19
JIM, YOU MAY NOT HAVE ALL THE INFO, BUT YOU DO HAVE QUITE A BIT AND A HEALTHY CURIOSITY AND CONCERN ABOUT THESE DRUGS IN OUR LIVES. THAT IS WHY I NEEDED TO BE MORE CLEAR IN MY STATEMENTS. YOU ARE CONSISTENT AND DILIGENT IN YOUR QUEST FOR INFORMATION ABOUT OUR ILLNESSES AND THE SHARING OF THAT INFORMATION WITH EVERYONE. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I DID NOT DISCOURAGE ANYONE AWAY FROM THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE SPOT ON WITH MANY OF THE POINTS YOU MAKE IN YOUR ENTRIES. SO, PLEASE, EVERYONE, CONTINUE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE SUPPORT JIM OFFERS, HIS RESEARCH IS EXCELLENT. JIM, I REGRET HAVING TO CONFIRM THAT WOMEN'S PHYSIOLOGIES ARE NOT OFTEN TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN PRESCRIBING THESE DRUGS, ESPECIALLY IN STATE FUNDED PROGRAMS ( ONE OF WHICH I AM A PART OF NOW DUE TO THE ABSENCE OF PRIVATE INSURANCE) I SEE MANY WOMEN OVER- MEDICATED, ONE INDIVIDUAL WAS SO DOSED UP ON DEKAPINE SHE COULD HARDLY WALK TO THE APPOINTMENT WINDOW. ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF A STATE PROGRAM IS THE ANNUAL BLOOD AND URINE ANALYSIS. THEY TEST FOR THE USE OF ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES ABOUT EVERY SIX MONTHS, BUT THEY ALSO MONITOR THAT ALL IMPORTANT RED AND WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT, HOWEVER, IF YOU DO NOT KNOW TO ASK FOR THE RESULTS, OR DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE CONCERNING WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT AND ITS IMPACT ON OVERALL HEALTH, IT DOES NO GOOD. STATE PROGRAMS ARE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT RESEARCH FACILITIES USING US TO TEST DOSAGES, NEW DRUGS, AND DEVELOP STATISTICS ON HOW MANY OF US SUFFER WITH WHICH DISEASES. WOMEN, IN PARTICULAR, NEED TO REFUSE MEDICATIONS THAT RENDER THEM "FUNCTIONLESS" AND SEVERELY DEPLETE CALCIUM AND DAMAGE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM, AT THE SAME TIME THEY MUST TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES WORK FOR THEM AND AT WHAT DOSAGE. MANY THERAPISTS ASSUME WOMEN NEED SMALLER DOSAGES THAN MEN WHEN, LIKE MYSELF, A LARGER DOSAGE IS REQUIRED FOR EFFECTIVENESS OVER A SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME. FOR EXAMPLE, REMERON IN SMALL DOSAGES OF 7.5MGS OR 15MGS WERE ABSORBED AND USED BY MY METABOLIC SYSTEM SO QUICKLY THAT THEY HAD NO EFFECT BECAUSE THE RESIDUAL AMOUNTS ( THE ACTUAL PART OF THE DRUG THAT EFFECTS MY SERATONIN LEVELS-THEY ARE TIME RELEASED MEDICATIONS) WERE NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO ALTER MY MOOD. BUT, THOSE SAME SMALL DOSAGES BUILT UP IN MY SYSTEM OVER A PERIOD OF TIME CAUSED ME ANXIETY AND HEADACHES WHEN TRYING TO CLEANSE MY SYSTEM. THE LARGER THE DOSAGE, FOR ME, THE EASIER TO WITHDRAW BECAUSE THERE IS MORE RESIDUALITY AS I TAPER OFF AND CONTINUE WITH HERBAL SUPPORT AND VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS. THE DOWNFALL OCCURS WHEN I RESUME REMERON. I START WITH A SMALLER DOSAGE AND WORK MY WAY BACK UP TO 45MGS OR THE LARGER DOSAGE KNOCKS ME OUT FOR ABOUT THE FIRST FIVE DAYS OF RESUMING MEDICAL THERAPY. THIS MAY NOT BE THE CASE FOR A LOT OF OTHER LADIES OUT THERE! MY METABOLIC RATE IS EXTREMELY HIGH AND I TEND TO LOSE WEIGHT QUICKLY. MANY ENTRIES I HAVE READ MENTION A RAPID INCREASE IN WEIGHT AND CRAVINGS FOR SUGARS AND CARBS ( I DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM) THAT ALONE IS GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO GET OFF REMERON AND SEEK OTHER THERAPIES. BE WARNED ALSO THAT OUR BREASTS, ABDOMINAL AREAS AND BOTTOMS CONTAIN MORE FATTY TISSUE THAN GENTLEMENS' BODIES DO AND THAT FAT CELLS ARE WHERE A LOT OF DRUGS THAT WORK RESIDUALLY ARE STORED ( DOCTORS DO SEEM TO KNOW THAT AND SO MANY GUYS ARE LUCKY ENOUGH (TONGUE IN CHEEK) TO RECIEVE PROPER DOSAGES IN THE BEGINNING TO AFFECT THEIR MOODS). FOR EXAMPLE, I WEIGH JUST ABOVE A HUNDRED POUNDS, IF I SMOKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MARIJUANA AS A MAN OF THE SAME WEIGHT AND HEIGHT, IT WILL TAKE ME THE SAME TIME PLUS A QUARTER TO RID MY BODY OF THE SAME INTAKE AMOUNT BECAUSE OF FATTY TISSUE IN THE BREASTS,ABDOMINALS, ETC. ( THIS IS THE SAME REASON IT IS EASIER FOR A WOMAN TO FLOAT ON HER BACK WHEN SWIMMING AND WHY NURSING MOTHERS MUST BE CAREFUL). SMALL BREASTS ARE NO EXCEPTION, THEY ARE STILL MADE UP OF FATTY TISSUE AND YOU STILL MUST CONSIDER YOUR MIDDLE AND BOTTOM. REMERON IS NO DIFFERENT, IT SITS IN THOSE CELLS RESIDUALLY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A SPEEDY METABOLISM, BUT YOUR METABOLIC RATE IS STILL HIGHER THAN A MAN'S OF THE SAME WEIGHT, IT'S THE AMOUNT OF FATTY TISSUE THAT MAKES IT EASIER FOR A MAN TO BURN OFF WEIGHT, YOUR METABOLIC RATE MAY BE SLOWER COMPARED TO OTHER WOMEN, AND YOU MAY BE DEALING WITH A DOUBLE- EDGED SWORD. YOUR METABOLISM MAY IMPACT THE AMOUNT OF A DRUG YOU NEED INITIALLY TO ACHIEVE MAXIMUM BENEFITS ( HIGHER DOSAGE) AND AT THE SAME TIME MAY SIT IN YOUR SYSTEM LONGER, FATTY TISSUE RATIO, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE FEMALE, CAUSING CRAVINGS AND HEADACHES AND MAKING WITHDRAWAL DIFFICULT. DON'T BE AFRAID TO SAY NO TO A MEDICATION IF IT WARNS OF INCREASED APPETITE, I REFUSE ALL MEDICATIONS THAT WARN OF DECREASED APPETITE. DON'T BE AFRAID OF WITHDRAWAL. LEARN HOW TO DO IT, EVEN IF YOU DECIDE TO STAY ON MEDS AS I HAVE, THERE WILL COME TIMES WHEN YOU CANNOT TAKE THE MEDS ( MEDICAL REASONS SUCH AS INTERRACTION WITH PAIN MEDICATIONS, ALLERGY MEDICATIONS, ANTIBIOTICS- THEY IMPACT THE AFFECTIVENESS OF BIRTH CONTOL PILLS) PERIODICALLY STOP ANYWAY BECAUSE OF RESIDUAL BUILDUP. NO MATTER HOW SMALL THE AMOUNT OF RESIDUALITY IT WILL CAUSE A RECIPROCAL AFFECT OVER TIME... A GREY PATCH RESEMBLING THE DISEASE YOU ARE TRYING TO DEFEAT. THAT IS WHY I COME TO THIS PARTICULAR SITE. THOUGH I AM TAKING MEDS, WITHDRAWAL IS AS IMPORTANT A PART OF THE THERAPY AS THE CONSUMPTION OF THE DRUGS. JIM, YOU MENTIONED STANDING ON YOUR HEAD, AN EXCELLENT FORM OF EXERSISE FOR ANY WOMAN AS WELL. LADIES, DID YOU KNOW THAT RUNNING IS ALL WRONG FOR DRUG WITHDRAWAL OF ANY KIND BECAUSE IT SPEEDS YOUR METABOLIC RATE TOO QUICKLY AND CAUSES YOUR BODY TO CRAVE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO RID YOUR SYSTEM OF? YOU RUN AND LOSE WEIGHT, AS SOON AS YOU FALL OFF YOU ROUTINE YOU GAIN IT BACK? AT FIRST YOU FEEL RELIEVED WITH THE EXERTION YOU HAVE PUT FORTH, BUT AFTER COOL DOWN YOUR BODY WANTS BACK WHAT YOU HAVE SWEAT AND RUN OUT ( CRAVINGS DURING PREGNANCY WHEN THE FETUS ABSORBS NUTRIENTS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE). THIS IS TRUE WHETHER IT BE ALCOHOL, COCAINE, MARIJUANA, COFFEE, CIGARETTES, FOOD, OR SEX(HA,HA). WALK, WALK, WALK, MONITOR YOUR BREATHING SO AS TO REGULATE OXYGEN INTAKE TO THE BRAIN AND SLOWLY FEED IT THE "-TONINS" IT NEEDS TO CONTROL THINKING AND RESIST BIOLOGICAL TRIGGERS. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RUN AGAIN! AND YOU WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHEN THAT IS BECAUSE YOU WON'T CRAVE YOUR VICES AS SOON AS YOU COOL DOWN! YOGA POSES ARE EXCELLENT BECAUSE THEY ADDRESS BREATHING AND OXYGEN INTAKE, YOU FOCUS ON THE BREATHING, YOU BEGIN TO HEAR THE LANGUAGE OF YOUR PSYCHE, YOUR TRIGGERS, IF YOU WILL. ONCE YOU CAN HEAR YOUR MIND AND IDENTIFY THE TRIGGERS OF YOUR ILLNESS YOU WILL KNOW BETTER HOW TO CONTROL THEM OR TREAT THEM. I STILL HAVE LOTS TO SORT OUT ONCE I RECOGNIZED A LONG LINE OF ADDICTIVE BEHAVIOR IN FAMILY HISTORY AS WELL AS DEPRESSION. WHEN I WALK AND BREATHE I BECOME AFRAID OF MANY OF THE THINGS THAT COME CLEAR, FIGHT THE FEAR. RIGHT NOW THE MEDS HELP ME FOCUS ON THE TRIGGERS AND RECOGNIZE THEM, MY GOAL IS TO CONTROL THEM. I AM NOT THERE YET. CONTINUE TO WITHDRAW, JUST CAREFULLY BECAUSE YOUR FEMALE BODY TYPES ARE NOT YET CONSIDERED WHEN PRESCRIBING PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC DRUGS RIGHT NOW. BE AS VOCAL ABOUT THE MEDICATIONS AS YOU ARE ABOUT THE OTHER THINGS YOU PUT IN YOUR GIRL GUT. IF ITS NOT WORKING, SAY NO, IF IT NEEDS MODIFYING, SAY SO. AND KEEP IN MIND, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING CONTRARY TO WHAT THE DOCTOR PRESCRIBES AND MAYBE EVEN WITHOUT HIS/HER INPUT. THEY ARE OPERATING FROM RESEARCH STANCES. ONLY YOU KNOW YOUR BODY. IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO CONTROL WHAT GOES INTO IT OR NOT. YOU CHOOSE THE GAS THAT GOES INTO YOUR CAR, BE AS DILIGENT ABOUT YOUR HUMAN VEHICLE! DON'T LET SHAME IN EITHER DIRECTION CONTROL YOU. IF YOU TAKE MEDS RIGHT NOW AND YOU FEEL BETTER...MEDICATION MIGHT BE TEMPORARY TO HELP YOU FOCUS ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE... IF YOU ARE SCATTERED AND OUT OF EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL CONTROL YOU CANNOT HELP YOURSELF. IF MEDICATIONS ARE SCREWING YOU OVER AND CAUSING PHYSICAL UPHEVAL AND EMOTIONAL CONFUSION, GET RID OF THEM! AND TO JIM, CONTINUED THANKS FOR CARING ABOUT US ALL AND WANTING TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT OF DEPRESSION, PANIC, SCHIZOPRENIA, BI-POLAR DISEASE, MULTI-PERSONALITY DISORDER, AND THE MYRIAD OF OTHER DISEASES AND TREATMENTS AND HOW THEY AFFECT AND DIFFER IN ONSET AND RELIEF IN WOMEN. ONWARD TO LIFE WITHOUT MEDICATION, I TAKE THEM, I DON'T WANT THEM TO TAKE ME. LIFE
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 16, 2006, at 13:00:04
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 10, 2006, at 22:10:46
Just an update. Now it has been almost four weeks on this stuff. I am still tapering it. I am taking a very little tiny piece and I tell ya, I still feel like crap. I don't know at this point if its panic/anxiety or if its a withdrawl symptom...
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 16, 2006, at 17:09:04
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 16, 2006, at 13:00:04
Hey, Tired. Try to describe in detail all the symptoms you're having. I'm seeming to have a bit of a clearer head right now, so maybe I can make heads or tails out of it.
Jimbob
> Just an update. Now it has been almost four weeks on this stuff. I am still tapering it. I am taking a very little tiny piece and I tell ya, I still feel like crap. I don't know at this point if its panic/anxiety or if its a withdrawl symptom...
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 16, 2006, at 21:43:45
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 16, 2006, at 17:09:04
I have a lot of pressure in my head, it feels like someone is squeezing me from from top to bottom. Light headaches. And moderate internal shaking. Some of that shakign can be seen on the outside as well. My heart feels like it will explode, moderate MVP. Blood pressure seems a bit low, resting pulse around 80-90bpm. Cannot sleep worth a darn. breathing is blocked a bit.
A lot of these symptoms are panic themselves, but I feel worse now than I did before I starting taking this medication...
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 17, 2006, at 17:31:30
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 16, 2006, at 21:43:45
Hey, Tired.
Just a suggestion. As it usually takes a while to get acclimatized to Remeron. (It actually took me a month when I first started it). Try staying on that dose for a couple of weeks or so and then go down further. I think you're likely very correct in that the Remeron is not a good drug for you, Unfortunately, now, though, you are on it and in order for you to get away from it, I think you have to play it as if it were doing any good for you. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but, maybe you could try that. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say. It sounds like the symptoms you're having are definitely panic oriented, though. The headaches, as you're still on the medication, are a result of your normal panic that you had before. However, the shakes are a result of the actual medication, as most AD's will make you do this if you're going through withdrawal. I had exactly the same thing withdrawing from Remeron, Paxil and Effexor, but it was before I had made my dietary changes.
As for me, I'm on my 35th day without Remeron and am still affected quite a bit. I've done everything, include cutting refined sugar right out of my diet for the time being, and still the symptoms are there. My symptoms are very similar to yours with the headaches, but a little depression is involved as well. However, it's still nowhere near what it was 10 1/2 years ago when I first started this whole schmozzle, so I think I'm still on the right track.
In any case, keep pluggin along (I know it's extremely hard) and try to be as patient as possible. I think it will get better for you, eventually.
Oh, and if I think of anything else, I'll most certainly let you know.
Jimbob
> I have a lot of pressure in my head, it feels like someone is squeezing me from from top to bottom. Light headaches. And moderate internal shaking. Some of that shakign can be seen on the outside as well. My heart feels like it will explode, moderate MVP. Blood pressure seems a bit low, resting pulse around 80-90bpm. Cannot sleep worth a darn. breathing is blocked a bit.
>
> A lot of these symptoms are panic themselves, but I feel worse now than I did before I starting taking this medication...
Posted by jules354 on August 17, 2006, at 17:37:25
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 17, 2006, at 17:31:30
tiredofpanic,
when i was first withdrawing from the remeron i cut out all caffeine and most refined sugar, also cut back on refined foods in general (refined flour, processed & packaged foods etc.). it really helped with the anxiety. i didn't have headaches or pressure too bad but arnica and tylenol helped with the body aches and headaches, and drinking lots and lots of water. also regular exercise, yoga, walking, meditation...i think keeping the body moving as much as you can will really help with the symptoms. i hope all this helps and that you feel better soon...
take care,
jules
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 17, 2006, at 22:44:54
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 17, 2006, at 17:31:30
Thank you both for your replies!
It's now been 72 hours since I have taken even a little piece, I decided that was it, I need to get over it sooner or later anyway and I think at that little dosage, probably 1mg or less it wasn't doing me any good for either the anxiety or the withdrawl, so I said that's it. The first couple of days were hard, last night and this morning are a little better, I still have some pressure in my head, but it seems, just seems anyway that the symptoms are going away. I was only on Remeron for two weeks, I can't imagine Jim how you got off this stuff at all! Kudos to you!
As for the panic, yes I think it is the same panic that was there before I started the meds. But maybe enhaced a bit by the withdrawl.
I am not sure if I mentioned it or not, but I am now seeing a pychologist for Cognitive Behavioral Thearapy at a local hospital. Today will be my second time there, and it may take six months or more, but I think it has to be better than taking the medication, because in the long run I have to be able to manage the stress and anxiety that I have in my daily life, not just surpress it with medication.
I hear both of you have cut refined sugar out of your diet completely, why? The only indication I can think of for why you feel better is because of candidia which is a yeast that grows in your intestines and feeds on this stuff. There is some evidence to support this. I have done several cleanses to rid myself of this nasty bacteria and honestly have felt a little better after the clense, felt like garbage on it let me tell you, all those nasty toxins running around in your blood stream make you feel like garbage, but afterwards if you can tolerate it you may feel better.
Right now I am eating more sugar and other things that I have in a long long time. I think the Remeron really effected my appetite and it is still there, gonna take awhile I guess.
Thansk again for your support!
> Hey, Tired.
>
> Just a suggestion. As it usually takes a while to get acclimatized to Remeron. (It actually took me a month when I first started it). Try staying on that dose for a couple of weeks or so and then go down further. I think you're likely very correct in that the Remeron is not a good drug for you, Unfortunately, now, though, you are on it and in order for you to get away from it, I think you have to play it as if it were doing any good for you. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but, maybe you could try that. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say. It sounds like the symptoms you're having are definitely panic oriented, though. The headaches, as you're still on the medication, are a result of your normal panic that you had before. However, the shakes are a result of the actual medication, as most AD's will make you do this if you're going through withdrawal. I had exactly the same thing withdrawing from Remeron, Paxil and Effexor, but it was before I had made my dietary changes.
>
> As for me, I'm on my 35th day without Remeron and am still affected quite a bit. I've done everything, include cutting refined sugar right out of my diet for the time being, and still the symptoms are there. My symptoms are very similar to yours with the headaches, but a little depression is involved as well. However, it's still nowhere near what it was 10 1/2 years ago when I first started this whole schmozzle, so I think I'm still on the right track.
>
> In any case, keep pluggin along (I know it's extremely hard) and try to be as patient as possible. I think it will get better for you, eventually.
>
> Oh, and if I think of anything else, I'll most certainly let you know.
>
> Jimbob
>
> > I have a lot of pressure in my head, it feels like someone is squeezing me from from top to bottom. Light headaches. And moderate internal shaking. Some of that shakign can be seen on the outside as well. My heart feels like it will explode, moderate MVP. Blood pressure seems a bit low, resting pulse around 80-90bpm. Cannot sleep worth a darn. breathing is blocked a bit.
> >
> > A lot of these symptoms are panic themselves, but I feel worse now than I did before I starting taking this medication...
>
>when i was first withdrawing from the remeron i cut out all caffeine and most refined sugar, also cut back on refined foods in general (refined flour, processed & packaged foods etc.). it really helped with the anxiety. i didn't have headaches or pressure too bad but arnica and tylenol helped with the body aches and headaches, and drinking lots and lots of water. also regular exercise, yoga, walking, meditation...i think keeping the body moving as much as you can will really help with the symptoms. i hope all this helps and that you feel better soon...
take care,
jules
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 2:23:13
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 17, 2006, at 22:44:54
Hey, np. What Jules said about the caffeine is definitely true. Caffeine and refined sugars have a tendency of making panic and depression a lot worse, and sometimes even make things worse when combined witn AD's. I've actually been off all caffeine for 10 years as it eventually made me have blackouts in addition to severe panic attacks.
I firmly believe that anyone with depression or panic attacks should immediately quit all caffeine permanently as it will eventually catch up with them.
As for the cleanses, that's a really good idea that can do nothing but help, I'm sure. I've actually done a few of those, now and am very positive it has made a difference. Also, eating a lot of vegetables and fruits do the same thing.
And as for me being off for 35 days, I'm not out of the woods yet, but, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone.
I heard a very interesting piece of information from a friend of mine who happens to be a nurse. She told me that coming off of any anti-depressant takes approximately 2 months or more (not just Remeron)
But, in any case, just as a warning to you, Tired, and that is for the first few days after taking your final dosage of Remeron, you'll likely feel pretty good, but after that the withdrawal will kick in almost assuredly. I don't want to scare you but just get you prepared for what to expect.
Oh, and by the way, the Remeron also makes you have high cravings for Carbohydrates so that would explain your high consumption of sugar.
I think by the sounds of it, though, you're definitely on the right track.
Anyhow, like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And please let us know how things are going in the next couple days.
Good Luck!!!
Jimbob
> Thank you both for your replies!
>
> It's now been 72 hours since I have taken even a little piece, I decided that was it, I need to get over it sooner or later anyway and I think at that little dosage, probably 1mg or less it wasn't doing me any good for either the anxiety or the withdrawl, so I said that's it. The first couple of days were hard, last night and this morning are a little better, I still have some pressure in my head, but it seems, just seems anyway that the symptoms are going away. I was only on Remeron for two weeks, I can't imagine Jim how you got off this stuff at all! Kudos to you!
>
> As for the panic, yes I think it is the same panic that was there before I started the meds. But maybe enhaced a bit by the withdrawl.
>
> I am not sure if I mentioned it or not, but I am now seeing a pychologist for Cognitive Behavioral Thearapy at a local hospital. Today will be my second time there, and it may take six months or more, but I think it has to be better than taking the medication, because in the long run I have to be able to manage the stress and anxiety that I have in my daily life, not just surpress it with medication.
>
> I hear both of you have cut refined sugar out of your diet completely, why? The only indication I can think of for why you feel better is because of candidia which is a yeast that grows in your intestines and feeds on this stuff. There is some evidence to support this. I have done several cleanses to rid myself of this nasty bacteria and honestly have felt a little better after the clense, felt like garbage on it let me tell you, all those nasty toxins running around in your blood stream make you feel like garbage, but afterwards if you can tolerate it you may feel better.
>
> Right now I am eating more sugar and other things that I have in a long long time. I think the Remeron really effected my appetite and it is still there, gonna take awhile I guess.
>
> Thansk again for your support!
>
> > Hey, Tired.
> >
> > Just a suggestion. As it usually takes a while to get acclimatized to Remeron. (It actually took me a month when I first started it). Try staying on that dose for a couple of weeks or so and then go down further. I think you're likely very correct in that the Remeron is not a good drug for you, Unfortunately, now, though, you are on it and in order for you to get away from it, I think you have to play it as if it were doing any good for you. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but, maybe you could try that. Other than that, I'm not sure what to say. It sounds like the symptoms you're having are definitely panic oriented, though. The headaches, as you're still on the medication, are a result of your normal panic that you had before. However, the shakes are a result of the actual medication, as most AD's will make you do this if you're going through withdrawal. I had exactly the same thing withdrawing from Remeron, Paxil and Effexor, but it was before I had made my dietary changes.
> >
> > As for me, I'm on my 35th day without Remeron and am still affected quite a bit. I've done everything, include cutting refined sugar right out of my diet for the time being, and still the symptoms are there. My symptoms are very similar to yours with the headaches, but a little depression is involved as well. However, it's still nowhere near what it was 10 1/2 years ago when I first started this whole schmozzle, so I think I'm still on the right track.
> >
> > In any case, keep pluggin along (I know it's extremely hard) and try to be as patient as possible. I think it will get better for you, eventually.
> >
> > Oh, and if I think of anything else, I'll most certainly let you know.
> >
> > Jimbob
> >
> > > I have a lot of pressure in my head, it feels like someone is squeezing me from from top to bottom. Light headaches. And moderate internal shaking. Some of that shakign can be seen on the outside as well. My heart feels like it will explode, moderate MVP. Blood pressure seems a bit low, resting pulse around 80-90bpm. Cannot sleep worth a darn. breathing is blocked a bit.
> > >
> > > A lot of these symptoms are panic themselves, but I feel worse now than I did before I starting taking this medication...
> >
> >
>
> when i was first withdrawing from the remeron i cut out all caffeine and most refined sugar, also cut back on refined foods in general (refined flour, processed & packaged foods etc.). it really helped with the anxiety. i didn't have headaches or pressure too bad but arnica and tylenol helped with the body aches and headaches, and drinking lots and lots of water. also regular exercise, yoga, walking, meditation...i think keeping the body moving as much as you can will really help with the symptoms. i hope all this helps and that you feel better soon...
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 18, 2006, at 4:19:57
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 2:23:13
Hi Jim,
So even though I only took 15mg for two weeks I am still going to have huge withdrawl problems in the coming days? I took 15mg for roughtly two weeks, and tapered for about 13 days. Because there was not a huge build up of Remeron in my body it shouldn't be that bad, obviously if I had stopped cold after two weeks on it I think there would be some problems, even the doctors say three days, half the dose and finish. Because I wasnt on it that long. God I hope I don't start having more problems in the next week or so. I have never felt 100% while on it anyway, so I hope I am out of the woods, I can't do two months of feeling like crap because of withdrawl, at least without medication I know most of the time I can work.
As for the Carbs, yes Remeron made me scarf down about 5 candy bars a day, a bunch of cookies, and I gained 9lbs in three weeks. I hope that weight starts to come off now that I have stopped taking it.
Anyway, we'll see what happens, I think I will be ok because of the small dosage I was on, the small amount of time I was on it, and the fact that I did still tapper it for almost two weeks. We'll see.
Thanks for your support. and I am glad you are feeling better, just think happy thoughts and dno't be afraid to talk to people if you need to. My therapy is going quite well, today I have found some issues that I hadn't thought about so clearly in the past, and now I need to deal with those emotions and let them free.
Cheers.
> Hey, np. What Jules said about the caffeine is definitely true. Caffeine and refined sugars have a tendency of making panic and depression a lot worse, and sometimes even make things worse when combined witn AD's. I've actually been off all caffeine for 10 years as it eventually made me have blackouts in addition to severe panic attacks.
>
> I firmly believe that anyone with depression or panic attacks should immediately quit all caffeine permanently as it will eventually catch up with them.
>
> As for the cleanses, that's a really good idea that can do nothing but help, I'm sure. I've actually done a few of those, now and am very positive it has made a difference. Also, eating a lot of vegetables and fruits do the same thing.
>
> And as for me being off for 35 days, I'm not out of the woods yet, but, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone.
>
> I heard a very interesting piece of information from a friend of mine who happens to be a nurse. She told me that coming off of any anti-depressant takes approximately 2 months or more (not just Remeron)
>
> But, in any case, just as a warning to you, Tired, and that is for the first few days after taking your final dosage of Remeron, you'll likely feel pretty good, but after that the withdrawal will kick in almost assuredly. I don't want to scare you but just get you prepared for what to expect.
>
> Oh, and by the way, the Remeron also makes you have high cravings for Carbohydrates so that would explain your high consumption of sugar.
>
> I think by the sounds of it, though, you're definitely on the right track.
>
> Anyhow, like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And please let us know how things are going in the next couple days.
>
> Good Luck!!!
>
> Jimbob
>
>
>
Posted by Jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 18:52:29
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 18, 2006, at 4:19:57
Tired. Did I read correctly in that you consumed 5 chocolate bars a day? If that's the case, no wonder you're having severe panic attacks, lol. Normal refined sugar isn't too bad, but when you add caffeine like you have, you're going to be really shaky and irritable, guaranteed. If you can at least substitute the chocolate for something else with sugar in it, then maybe that will help. I do know what it's like to consume a whole bag of cookies in one day, though. The Remeron made me crave that all the time.
So, in other words, if you continue to consume chocolate AKA major caffeine, you're going to have problems.
I can almost guarantee the symptoms will subside eventually if you do that, that is once the caffeine withdrawal symptoms are gone, lol.
Hope I haven't been too abrupt but you need to do that.
Talk to you later,
Jimbob
> Hi Jim,
>
> So even though I only took 15mg for two weeks I am still going to have huge withdrawl problems in the coming days? I took 15mg for roughtly two weeks, and tapered for about 13 days. Because there was not a huge build up of Remeron in my body it shouldn't be that bad, obviously if I had stopped cold after two weeks on it I think there would be some problems, even the doctors say three days, half the dose and finish. Because I wasnt on it that long. God I hope I don't start having more problems in the next week or so. I have never felt 100% while on it anyway, so I hope I am out of the woods, I can't do two months of feeling like crap because of withdrawl, at least without medication I know most of the time I can work.
>
> As for the Carbs, yes Remeron made me scarf down about 5 candy bars a day, a bunch of cookies, and I gained 9lbs in three weeks. I hope that weight starts to come off now that I have stopped taking it.
>
> Anyway, we'll see what happens, I think I will be ok because of the small dosage I was on, the small amount of time I was on it, and the fact that I did still tapper it for almost two weeks. We'll see.
>
> Thanks for your support. and I am glad you are feeling better, just think happy thoughts and dno't be afraid to talk to people if you need to. My therapy is going quite well, today I have found some issues that I hadn't thought about so clearly in the past, and now I need to deal with those emotions and let them free.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> > Hey, np. What Jules said about the caffeine is definitely true. Caffeine and refined sugars have a tendency of making panic and depression a lot worse, and sometimes even make things worse when combined witn AD's. I've actually been off all caffeine for 10 years as it eventually made me have blackouts in addition to severe panic attacks.
> >
> > I firmly believe that anyone with depression or panic attacks should immediately quit all caffeine permanently as it will eventually catch up with them.
> >
> > As for the cleanses, that's a really good idea that can do nothing but help, I'm sure. I've actually done a few of those, now and am very positive it has made a difference. Also, eating a lot of vegetables and fruits do the same thing.
> >
> > And as for me being off for 35 days, I'm not out of the woods yet, but, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone.
> >
> > I heard a very interesting piece of information from a friend of mine who happens to be a nurse. She told me that coming off of any anti-depressant takes approximately 2 months or more (not just Remeron)
> >
> > But, in any case, just as a warning to you, Tired, and that is for the first few days after taking your final dosage of Remeron, you'll likely feel pretty good, but after that the withdrawal will kick in almost assuredly. I don't want to scare you but just get you prepared for what to expect.
> >
> > Oh, and by the way, the Remeron also makes you have high cravings for Carbohydrates so that would explain your high consumption of sugar.
> >
> > I think by the sounds of it, though, you're definitely on the right track.
> >
> > Anyhow, like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And please let us know how things are going in the next couple days.
> >
> > Good Luck!!!
> >
> > Jimbob
> >
> >
> >
Posted by LIFE on August 18, 2006, at 22:55:36
In reply to JIM AS A SOURCE OF INFO AND SUPPORT, posted by LIFE on August 11, 2006, at 15:16:41
I really hate to hear ya'll are having such a hard time with the sugar cravings, it's hell when there are candy bars and cookies everywhere. Not to mention the doughnuts and fried pies, my favorites. Because of the depression, though I am not plagued with the fear of weight gain, I have had to replace refined sugars and beat chocoholism with natural sugars. Fruit consumption is the first line of defense, but you need a way to actually satisfy the cravings monster. Try frozen fruit slushes and juice every kind of fruit you can get your hands on. Carb cravings can be cut by juicing raw white or Irish potatoes with apples. If you find your natural juices are not sweet enough add a pinch of white stevia, green stevia does not mix well, and the white gives you the psychological satisfaction of using what looks like sugar. Stevia is wonderful on fruits of all kinds that are not sweet enough, it sweetens them better than white sugar, believe it or not. After a glass of potato and apple juice( sweet potatoes are good too), you will notice your craving for breads and cooked carbs strangely satisfied. Juice two more glasses of anything fruit( try to limit the purity of your juices to two ingredients, you will better manage the routine that way, in a couple of days you will crave the clean juices. When in a hurry, buy natural unsweetened frozen fruits, strawberries, peaches, blueberries, add stevia and whip a slush in your blender, add yogurt (antidote to bad candidus, fights yeast infections and irritable bowel syndrome, or a non-dairy coffee creamer for a smoothie affect, and good luck. Sugar cravings are the worst and not at all good for any of our maladies. Hope this helps! Let me know. And a juiced potato with apples tastes better than you think, and raw metabolizes in your system better and does not cause weight gain. Good luck, fellas, redundantly "hang in there" you both have a good number of clean days under your belts be sure to give yourselves credit for that! Life
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 0:53:33
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by Jimbobwe64 on August 18, 2006, at 18:52:29
Hi Jim..
Sometimes more than 5, plus cookies! ha ha. I'm not oveweight either Jim, that's the funny thing about it, any girl that reads that is gonna be angry but...
anyway you are probably right, the chocolate probably isn't helping the matter, but I am addicted, its worse than any medication, I LOVE CHOCOLATE! That's a big problem. I need to ween myself off of it, I can't just stop, before taking the Remeron, actually I was much better than I was before, but after taking it, I wanted it again.
Honestly though, I am not sure how much caffinne is in a chocolate bar, I need to look that up, I think I would have to eat like more than 5 to have the same amount that's in a cup of coffee.
I was going to ask you guys also as I forgot yesturday.. If, now that I have stopped Remeron, and you guys have warned me that the withdrawl symptoms may come in a week or so, can you tell me exactely what symptoms will come and how exactley am I going to feel when they do come?
Thanks,
ToP
> Tired. Did I read correctly in that you consumed 5 chocolate bars a day? If that's the case, no wonder you're having severe panic attacks, lol. Normal refined sugar isn't too bad, but when you add caffeine like you have, you're going to be really shaky and irritable, guaranteed. If you can at least substitute the chocolate for something else with sugar in it, then maybe that will help. I do know what it's like to consume a whole bag of cookies in one day, though. The Remeron made me crave that all the time.
>
> So, in other words, if you continue to consume chocolate AKA major caffeine, you're going to have problems.
>
> I can almost guarantee the symptoms will subside eventually if you do that, that is once the caffeine withdrawal symptoms are gone, lol.
>
> Hope I haven't been too abrupt but you need to do that.
>
> Talk to you later,
>
> Jimbob
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 19, 2006, at 4:51:23
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 0:53:33
You're going to be surprised when I say this, ToP. But, there's actually more caffeine in one chocolate bar then there is in one cup of coffee. Yes, that's very true. Enough said, lol.
And life has mentioned some very good alternatives, too. So, hint, hint, wink, wink, get off da caffeine, OK, lol?
As for the symptoms, I suspect that it may vary from person to person as a lot of depression and panic related symptoms do.
With me, and I still have these, I get headaches, ears ring, depression (weepiness) and a bit of paranoia along with the withdrawals. Other people have experienced the shakes and irritability, as well.
Can anyone else help out here?
Jimbob
> Hi Jim..
>
> Sometimes more than 5, plus cookies! ha ha. I'm not oveweight either Jim, that's the funny thing about it, any girl that reads that is gonna be angry but...
>
> anyway you are probably right, the chocolate probably isn't helping the matter, but I am addicted, its worse than any medication, I LOVE CHOCOLATE! That's a big problem. I need to ween myself off of it, I can't just stop, before taking the Remeron, actually I was much better than I was before, but after taking it, I wanted it again.
>
> Honestly though, I am not sure how much caffinne is in a chocolate bar, I need to look that up, I think I would have to eat like more than 5 to have the same amount that's in a cup of coffee.
>
> I was going to ask you guys also as I forgot yesturday.. If, now that I have stopped Remeron, and you guys have warned me that the withdrawl symptoms may come in a week or so, can you tell me exactely what symptoms will come and how exactley am I going to feel when they do come?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ToP
>
>
>
> > Tired. Did I read correctly in that you consumed 5 chocolate bars a day? If that's the case, no wonder you're having severe panic attacks, lol. Normal refined sugar isn't too bad, but when you add caffeine like you have, you're going to be really shaky and irritable, guaranteed. If you can at least substitute the chocolate for something else with sugar in it, then maybe that will help. I do know what it's like to consume a whole bag of cookies in one day, though. The Remeron made me crave that all the time.
> >
> > So, in other words, if you continue to consume chocolate AKA major caffeine, you're going to have problems.
> >
> > I can almost guarantee the symptoms will subside eventually if you do that, that is once the caffeine withdrawal symptoms are gone, lol.
> >
> > Hope I haven't been too abrupt but you need to do that.
> >
> > Talk to you later,
> >
> > Jimbob
>
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 19, 2006, at 6:54:43
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 19, 2006, at 4:51:23
Well crap then, I need to find something that tastes like chocolate then because Ic an't stop that... Or maybe I should take up coffee drinking... HAHAHAA
Ok well. you made your point, now I have to determine what course of action I need to take.. What a pain in the butt.
As for the withdrawl symptoms, well, I have already experienced some of that, and have passed it off as anxiety, so... anyway.... I was very irritable, even fits of rage, while on Remeron, so... it can't get much worse than it already was..
Thanks for the answers.
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