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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 21:17:33
In reply to Re: Susan GET ON THAT PLANE QUICK!!! » Susan47, posted by Damos on April 14, 2005, at 18:50:19
So when you had sex, then, you had bad feelings with it? Because that's what it sounds like, and like you thought you were hurting somebody's feelings or you weren't making someone feel good enough or something.
Posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:06:24
In reply to Re: Susan GET ON THAT PLANE QUICK!!!, posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 21:17:33
How did I wind up revealing all this, I can't believe it. Susan I wish I knew how to explain it, just not sure I can.
On one level there is the fact that I have no concept/understanding/whatever of the physical expression of emotion. Never ever saw my parents hug or kiss and can't remember ever being hugged or kissed by them. Come to think of it, a wacking was about it in terms of physical contact - I'm not talking abuse type wacking though, just your normal naughty kid stuff. Sh*t I can't even remember them expressing affection verbally. I'm getting better I don't actually cringe and pull away now if someone touches me, so that's gotta be good - doesn't it? G*d, I can even remember a girl asking me if I was ever gonna make a 'pass' at her. Sh*t. Never done it to this day, they've always had to start anything.
On another level there's the whole sex thing. Struth Susan I should be paying you a fortune for this. All I can tell you is that there has always been this crushing absence of something I know should be there, desperately want it to be there to share it with this other person, but never has been and it hurts like hell. I have only ever been with 4 women and have loved each of them so very dearly. But there has always been this presence, a presence of something absent if that makes sense. And it's me, I'm not there, I'm missing something important and essential and I really try I do, with every fibre of my being - so I push them away because they deserve better than that or they drift away cause I'm so tied in nots and too much like hard work. And I honestly don't know why I'm telling you this cause I'm shakin' like a leaf and my heart's in my mouth and I can't breathe. Whooooooo. In and of itself it's not that important to me, but that something that it can be a beautiful part of and expression of is, and I'd give anything to know that feeling just once. Enough, enough, enough for now.
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 10:32:31
In reply to Re: Susan GET ON THAT PLANE QUICK!!! » Susan47, posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:06:24
My god you are a healthy, loving survivor ... you are so incredibly whole, Damos, inside yourself everything you've survived .. you're incredible. No wonder you're always crying these days .. the dam is finally breaking.. you're getting there, sweetheart .. oh, Damos. Here, a teeny little one until the real thing is acceptable (Damos).
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 10:35:51
In reply to Re: Susan GET ON THAT PLANE QUICK!!! » Susan47, posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:06:24
sex isn't that important to you but as part of something that's whole and beautiful and wonderful to share, that is important .. so the lusting part of sex, the breasts and the soft/hardness and the curves/indentations, the skin and the hair, the smells and moistures .. that isn't important to you? Or you haven't allowed yourself to fully involve ...?
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:07:38
In reply to In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 10:35:51
I better slow down I'm going too fast here 'cause you know what I'm going to bring up next. So I'm not going to. You know. Because it hits a very deep emotional spot in your soul. And it's about you feeling inadequate. Because you know you were inadequately raised. I know this is getting too much for you right now, isn't it? I'll take a break, okay? Bye. And just to remind myself, and remain ubiquitous ...
Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:27:52
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:07:38
Being fully human means being full of contradictions. Because that's the real experience. Yup. Sunny, you hear that? Full, FULL, of contradiction. That's me and I know it.. is that anybody else or am I the only one? I hate it.
Posted by damos on April 15, 2005, at 21:07:09
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:07:38
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!
That hit me like a 30 storey building collapsing me late yesterday after the previous post. You know, when something is it but it's not. Lots more to be said, but right now love you Susan and thank you are all that seem important. Oh yeh, I do like all of those things mentioned in your previous post - as I said, lots more to say.
Posted by Susan47 on April 16, 2005, at 15:45:26
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by damos on April 15, 2005, at 21:07:09
When're you going to say it? I'm really wanting to know everything you're talking about.
Posted by Damos on April 16, 2005, at 21:34:32
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 16, 2005, at 15:45:26
The next exciting episode. Where to begin????
Inadequate is part of it but not all of it. Incomplete is how I feel too. Like I missed out on the bit that helps us bond properly. Like I was fitted with the wrong kind of connectors at birth. Like an appliance with the wrong kind of plug. In that moment when I'm completely vulnerable and all the defences are down and that should be so beautiful, I'm always terrified and sure that they will see the dark misshapen, deformed thing that is really me. And no-one deserves to be with that no-one. And no-one could want to be - surely. I so want for them to be happy, but know that I have no dea how to be that or help them be that, and so will only end up draggging them down and hurting them. So I push them away, or crawl back under my rock so they just leave. Hold on tight, let go light that's my motto. I make going easy for them. Well it is my fault afterall.
A brief change of tack. You what I find incredibly attractive???? The nape of the neck. Sorry, just felt I still wasn't getting at the real problem. You know I only ever wanted three things in life.
To be a good husband.
He swings and missess - STEEEERike 1To be a good father.
He swings and misses - STEEEEERike 2To be a good friend
He swings and misses - STEEEEEErike 3 YUURRROUTI have been well trained over a very long time to know that the only thing I do well is F things up and that the only outcome of anything I do is failure. Hmmmm, feel like we're getting warmer now. So often I watch myself carefully crafting another failure and just let it happen. You know what's even funnier - others just don't see it.
Oh yeah did I mention that I don't read/understand/respond appropriately to if at all - emotions.
I know with absolute certainty that I am worthless, useless piece of crap. Simple. I think that's enough for one session. Thank you Dr Susan.
Posted by Damos on April 16, 2005, at 21:39:17
In reply to Re: Susan GET ON THAT PLANE QUICK!!!, posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 21:17:33
Fogot to mention. Big mistake last night. Watched a movie set in NZ. Soon as I heard the young girls voice that was the end of me. Then they referred to Camus and had Mazzy Star in the soundtrack. Sh*t.
Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 13:23:02
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by Damos on April 16, 2005, at 21:34:32
Quick.. I haven't finished reading this post but telling you this, the fact that you feel like something's mis-wired shows that you're not. It's all come from outside yourself, it's alien to your true nature, what you experienced in childhood, because it really ISN't you, is why you feel the disharmony now. That's such a great thing!!!!
Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 13:32:03
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by Damos on April 16, 2005, at 21:34:32
Holy cow, my country bumpkin way of saying, my god Damos you really aren't there for yourself at all. It's incredible you're here, we're lucky that you still are, aren't we? Because you've been so kind to so many here, and your heart is so big, it's hard to see you the way you describe yourself. I have to really streeeetch my imagination, you know?
It's like there's two of you. One you reserve for the real world, that's everybody else, and one you reserve for yourself, the one that's convinced you're horrible and awful, monstrous ... we ALL behave badly, Damos. I'm a selfish bitch and people have even said that to me. Here even, some people don't tolerate me. So am I supposed to hate myself for that?
Like you apparently do yourself?
Because if you feel that way about yourself, Damos, how do you REALLY feel about everyone else?
If you see so much that's apparently worthy in other people, why can't you see that it's also you? Do you think a psychopath ever EVER feels like there's something missing inside him or her? No. I doubt that very much. It's why the Clifford Olsons and the Ted Bundys of this world were so charismatic. They had all the self-confidence and love for themselves that they ever needed. Oh, Olson's still alive.
Posted by Damos on April 17, 2005, at 18:02:37
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 13:32:03
Time for a laugh.
I remember a psychiatrist telling me once I was 'supernormal' in response to a bunch of tests I'd done - of course he totally failed to explain what on Earth that meant.
There was someone else who after looking at some other tests said it was amazing to her that I could get up in the morning I was full of contradictions and conflicts.
Michelle (Katie's Mum) rang me about 12mths ago to say that I should see the Ted Bundy movie because there was a scene in it where she and her son looked at each other and said "That's Faulkner" (me). Now that was scary!!!!
The only reason I'm still here is because I forgot to feed my parent dog once-upon-a-time. Let's just say I was getting acquainted with a shot gun and she wouldn't stop scratching at the door. Suddenly I realised I hadn't fed her and so went and did it and somehow it was enough to break the spell. Been a couple of other nearlies but something always stops me.
Some people thing I'm as cold and hard as stone. They just don't see what goes on beneath - the depths of the turmoil. The way I just take anything that is beyond my ability to deal with and lock it down deep inside until I can, which is usually never.
It's easier to be what other people want and need me to be than it is to be me. I was also well taught that every thing and everyone came before me.
Something else. I can't deal with recognition, praise, the sopt light, success and stuff and so deliberately seek to be invisible. I've never got near my full potential in anything because I couldn't deal with the attention being really good brings. Hate it. Don't actually think I've ever done something just for myself, well except buy books and CDs. Don't know how.
Enough for now. Can't believe Alex is missing all this.
Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 19:55:47
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by Damos on April 17, 2005, at 18:02:37
I knew a man like you, once. He was super-special. But intolerable to be around, because for some reason his energy was so mixed. But he had the best of everything that's human in him, right there, at the surface. And he'd had some kind of horrible horrible life, you know, emotionally, when he was a kid. And other terrible things happened to him too, he had a life that was lived ten times, in as many ways, it seems, by the time he was 35. Well one day I guess he met the "right" person, and I can still see his face in my mind when he looks at her. It's full of light, and love. And she looks back at him in the same way. I always had the feeling that as long as they had each other, you know, no matter what things would be okay for them. And from the last heard, that's true.
Sigh.
Posted by damos on April 17, 2005, at 22:01:08
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 19:55:47
LMAO!!!!!!!!! Super-special, oh no. Intolerable to be around Oh-Yeh!!! My life hasn't been bad by any means, something just got kinda screwed up somewhere along the line. G*d I remember the day I turned 21 and one of the girls in the office said "I thought you were 30 at least I can't believe it." Boy I so hope what you say is true..I keep on hoping. Big Sigh. Another big sigh.
Can you believe I have trouble sitting on the lounge (couch) with anyone for an extended period and even worse I've almost never managed to spend the entire night in the same bed as another person. It's really upsetting for a woman to wake and find you on the lounge, in the spare room or on the floor at the foot of the bed. Can't explain the sensation that drives that behaviour but it's an actual physical pressure. Getting to know someone - really know them is more important than being physical with them for me.
I've been working really hard on getting sorted and my energetic healing therapist says the improvement from the first time she saw me is remarkable. Funny during one session she kept calling me Tom. Said the name just kept coming to her each time she went to say my name and the feeling was that it was my name not that of someone associated with me. She's really intuitive and been 100% spot on with a number of things that she couldn't have guessed and had certainly not even been hinted at. I am finding that the more love and acceptance I put out into the world, the more returns to me, and that's got to be good.
Funny, the image of a girl I was totally in love with from the 5th grade right through high school just came into my head. I know she knew how I felt and can see now how she tried to help me without embarrassing me, and how I never managed to say or do anything. Hopeless.
Kinda think my role in life is just to be safe place for people to be. Just to be a place of safety where they can be themselves without worrying about all the other BS. Where they can regain their strength, mend their wings, get a hand up, feel supported and cared for, listened to and loved, and then go back out into the world again when they feel strong enough. And I 'm okay with that. Maybe someday someone will want to stay.
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 8:42:42
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by damos on April 17, 2005, at 22:01:08
You might be good therapist material. You wouldn't be eyeing your patients provocatively or making passes at them, shaking hands is about all you'd be able to do ... you can laugh now.
Posted by antigua on April 18, 2005, at 9:41:56
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 8:42:42
I've been reading this thread and all I have to say is that you apear to be an incredible person. You seem to know yourself so well. I'm sorry you face all this, I truly am. Don't give up hope, though.
antigua
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 18, 2005, at 10:00:20
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by antigua on April 18, 2005, at 9:41:56
> I've been reading this thread and all I have to say is that you apear to be an incredible person. You seem to know yourself so well. I'm sorry you face all this, I truly am. Don't give up hope, though.
> antiguaI've got to agree....he seems to know himself really well. That is about 90% of the work, already done, to effect change.
The hardest thing about changing is knowing what it is that might be changed. You might note, I'm adopting a non-judgmental language set. Change is neither bad nor good. It's merely different.
If you can adopt some sense of this dispassionate observer status, change can happen before your eyes.
One of the aspects of change that is self-limiting is failing to communicate with another during such an event. You can't work on changing how you relate to a sexual partner unless you're with one, for example. And leaving uncomfortable behaviours unexplained promotes speculation in your partner's mind.....best to just talk about it a bit.
What is see is our friend Damos ready to do some experiments with respect to change.
Sorry to barge in like this....
Lar
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 10:24:59
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » antigua, posted by Larry Hoover on April 18, 2005, at 10:00:20
Posted by Damos on April 18, 2005, at 17:27:29
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » antigua, posted by Larry Hoover on April 18, 2005, at 10:00:20
Hey Lar,
Feel free to barge any ol' time. Your wise counsel is always welcomed and appreciated.
Things are changing little by little, and just being here is a big part of that. Lots to be done but I've haven't given up hopin'a dn tryin'. Just tryin' to be a little better each day.
You're a good man Larry H.
Posted by Damos on April 18, 2005, at 17:34:04
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 8:42:42
LMAO, because people have been telling me my whole adult life that I should have been a counsellor or therapist of some sort. Can you imagine??????????
Am actually hoping to get qualified in Reiki or another manual therapy i.e. massage or reflexology this year or next. Realised that all that keeps me in my job (apart from paying hte bills) is the people that I care for here - not the place or what I do.
So ya gonna send me your bill now or what?
Posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 20:19:38
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by Damos on April 18, 2005, at 17:34:04
I didn't do anything. sheesh. I sure hope I don't get this much responsibility when I say all the wrong stuff too. Because I think that happens quite a lot. Sigh.
Posted by damos on April 18, 2005, at 21:52:56
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 18, 2005, at 20:19:38
Liar, liar, pants on fire. You did more than you know. Now don't you go getting all serious on me just when I start to feel like playing. Maybe we could go and play on the swings with Alex, hmmm wonder if they have a slide or a see-saw???? Either that or I'll meet you at the library and we can share a book - your choice.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 18, 2005, at 22:05:07
In reply to Re: In and of Itself.. Damos » Susan47, posted by damos on April 18, 2005, at 21:52:56
> Liar, liar, pants on fire.
Hah...you'll do about anything to get Susan out of her pants, now won't you?
Shameful.
Bad boy.
Love ya' !!
Posted by 10derHeart on April 18, 2005, at 22:16:33
In reply to Re: Susan GET ON THAT PLANE QUICK!!! » Susan47, posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:06:24
>>..so I push them away because they deserve better than that or they drift away cause I'm so tied in nots and too much like hard work...<<
Damos, I know I'm intruding a bit, and I hope this isn't too far out of line. But this part of what you said just pierced right to my heart and stopped me cold.
You know, there are women who are capable of loving in such a strong and centered way that they will not be pushed away. Will NOT be.
You know, there are women who can feel great empathy for *tied in knots*, and look at it not as something to be avoided, but just as another aspect to love because it's a real part of Damos.And you know, there are DEFINITELY women who would take your very human hurts, fears, and worries and relish the "hard work" as part of truly, fully, being with you. Ever hear of a labor of love?
I think you are brave and beautiful and a blessing to all of us.
Just wanted you to know.
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