![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 20 to 44 of 80. Go back in thread:
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 16, 2004, at 10:14:37
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 15:14:06
> > > Sounds like it just might work for you. Sleep and goofiness - what more could you ask for?
> >
> > A lottery win would be nice.Back to the taurine concept.
I have done a down-and-dirty three-day trial of taurine. Without doubt, it is a very helpful supplement to add to my toolbox. I have been struggling with just how to describe the effect, but after an extraordinarily stressful day yesterday, I think I can finally describe it. Taurine seems to be more noticeable, not for what it does, but for what it keeps from happening.
I most certainly felt greater mental clarity, and more "comfortable" emotionally. The best I can describe it would be that my clarity was due to reduced "noise" in my cognitive processes. Easier to focus, very low effort. The comfortable feeling was more a lack of being hyper, a lack of being anxious. The latter is quite distinct from benzo effects, so I struggled with how to describe it. It's more like not needing a benzo than having taken one.
Because of the major stressor yesterday, and because I could feel the taurine wearing off about 9 p.m. last night, I decided to try a second dose. Bad call. There is some stimulant activity; I had a heck of a time getting to sleep, despite the standard cocktail of three meds I take every night. Eventually, I think I got enough sleep.
So, on the basis of that single dose, I am also left to conclude that there is a stimulant effect, but that is so "gentle" during the day that it is unnoticeable, as such. I can feel a cup of coffee, but I don't feel stimulated by the taurine. I am quite intrigued, and you can bet I will be studying taurine metabolism more fully.
> > I hope so, too. Actually, I was drawn to the thread by an administrative action, but hey! Whatever gets me going is good.
> >
>
> Speaking of administrative action, did you know that Chemist was blocked for a week? (or was that the administrative action you were referring to?)Yes, it was. I caught it on Admin, then went looking for the thread. Chemist and I are cut from similar cloth, it seems.
> I had a part in that so I feel a little bad about it - but not too bad as it's only a week and he knew where his actions might lead. He fought the good fight anyway.
There was a principle worth fighting for its full expression. I know that feeling well.
> I could understand that. Where would you/we be without our virtual e-friends? I'm at the stage of wanting to see people and find out what they look like and what their lives are really like. That would ruin the openness and anonymity of course but enquiring minds want to know! I'm intrigued by the concept of pouring out your heart and most personal stories and feelings to someone(s) on-line and then knowing that you could walk right past that "stranger" in the real world and never have any clue as to what you have shared with him/her/them. (BTW, how does your girlfriend feel about sharing you with all of us?)
I told you I loved questions. Her answer was, "It makes me fall in love with you more honey". Now, is that too kewl, or what?
I consider the evolution of the internet a godsend. I can take what I want, and leave the rest.
> > > > > I don't know what else is going on with you but I do hope that things get better soon or at least that you are able to deal with it all better.
> > > >
> > > > I have many tools in my toolbox. All things in their time. Everything works out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end.
> > > >
>
> So good to hear. That's what worried me so about Scott - he wasn't seeing any more tools in the toolbox.I shall never forget his post to me when I said farewell, this spring. I thought I might never return, but perhaps I was letting go of something else. Anyway, I'm thinking of you, Scott. And praying for some peace to come into your life.
Aside: the word disease comes to us from the Old French "desaisu", which means 'not at peace'. Mental disease takes on its real meaning, with that concept. A mind not at peace.
> > > > I fell off a truck and broke my elbow back in January. I have nerve damage and there's something wonky in the joint (it locks up, with ice-pick pain). MRI on the 26th, and surgery, I think. There's always something, eh?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Major bummer but at least they think it's fixable. (C'est la vie.)
> >
> > Oui. Que sera, sera.
>
> I just burst into song upon reading that ...It's the silver lining phenomenon. :-)
> > I try to act like a beach ball held under water. Lots of buoyancy.
> >
>
> Good analogy or should I say metaphor?Pedantically, you'd say simile. The word "like" or "as" is the comparator term, 'similar to'.
> > If only they would pay me for it.
>
> That would be nice. Of course once you win that lottery, you won't need it!I keep trying, but they won't give me the money, yet. I love the word yet. It changes everything it touches.
> Until later,
> KCyberhugs,
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 16, 2004, at 10:20:45
In reply to so, is the dose for taurine 3gm/d and what time? (nm), posted by joebob on July 14, 2004, at 11:02:44
I don't know what *the* dose is. I estimated three gram doses, and that's what I went with. It seems to last about 12 hours in me, though that may have been the case because of extreme stress that one day.
Barbaracat takes 2 grams twice a day. I really haven't had time to look more deeply into dose and effect, yet. Clearly, three or four grams seems a good starting point, but listen to your body.
Good luck,
Lar
Posted by Simus on July 17, 2004, at 0:20:04
In reply to Re: so, is the dose for taurine 3gm/d and what time? » joebob, posted by Larry Hoover on July 16, 2004, at 10:20:45
Larry,
Is there a concern in getting too much of an amino acid? Is there perhaps a toxic level?
Thanks,
Simus
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 17, 2004, at 11:20:43
In reply to Re: so, is the dose for taurine 3gm/d and what time? » Larry Hoover, posted by Simus on July 17, 2004, at 0:20:04
> Larry,
>
> Is there a concern in getting too much of an amino acid? Is there perhaps a toxic level?
>
> Thanks,
>
> SimusI suppose, but how do we determine "too much"? There's the rub.
We generally think of about 20 amino acids when we use the term, and those are the ones which are major components of food proteins. Half of those 20 are essential, meaning we have to get them from food. We are unable to synthesize those from anything else.
The term amino acid, though, actually encompasses hundreds, if not thousands, of compounds. GABA is an amino acid. SAMe is an amino acid. DOPA is an amino acid. 5-HTP is one.
Taurine is one of a rare class, though. Instead of the carboxylic acid group, it has a sulfonic acid group. Taurine is the sulfonic acid version of GABA.
Taurine is found in food, and we can synthesize a little bit of it, but our synthetic enzymes are weak, on a relative comparison with most mammals. Cats have lost taurine synthesis altogether, and it must be in their food or they die.
Although taurine is found in food, it is not a component of protein (with the exception of the simplest of all proteins, the dipeptide, merely two aminos linked together). It has an incredible number of effects within the body. If you are supplementing taurine, how much is too much? Hard to say, but if you listen to your body's reaction, you'll probably be able to figure that out (within reason).
Here's a link to a taurine article that does not mention psych effects. It'll give you a pretty good overview of general physical effects, and therapeutic doses.
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/taurine3-2.html
I see a reference to six grams per day for four weeks, as an example. I don't know of any toxic effects of taurine (Yet. I'm continuing to research taurine.). That said, your own body may reveal adverse effects. For example, I think my own body has shown a greater resistance to sleep (I already have severe insomnia), yet improved restfulness from the sleep I do get. I am not going to take any taurine today, because I don't feel like I need any. So, four days at about 3 grams per day, and I'm going to take a break from it. But I'll surely take it again, as needed.
What I find to be most amazing about taurine is that I don't feel drugged in the slightest. It is almost an anti-drug. I have lost the feeling that I might benefit from a drug. That is how it feels....I notice what I no longer feel much more succinctly that any literal effect. I'm simply feeling....uhhh....better.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 16:43:55
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 16, 2004, at 10:14:37
> > > > Sounds like it just might work for you. Sleep and goofiness - what more could you ask for?
> > >
> > > A lottery win would be nice.
>
> Back to the taurine concept.
>
> I have done a down-and-dirty three-day trial of taurine. Without doubt, it is a very helpful supplement to add to my toolbox. I have been struggling with just how to describe the effect, but after an extraordinarily stressful day yesterday, I think I can finally describe it. Taurine seems to be more noticeable, not for what it does, but for what it keeps from happening.
>
> I most certainly felt greater mental clarity, and more "comfortable" emotionally. The best I can describe it would be that my clarity was due to reduced "noise" in my cognitive processes. Easier to focus, very low effort. The comfortable feeling was more a lack of being hyper, a lack of being anxious. The latter is quite distinct from benzo effects, so I struggled with how to describe it. It's more like not needing a benzo than having taken one.
>
> Because of the major stressor yesterday, and because I could feel the taurine wearing off about 9 p.m. last night, I decided to try a second dose. Bad call. There is some stimulant activity; I had a heck of a time getting to sleep, despite the standard cocktail of three meds I take every night. Eventually, I think I got enough sleep.
>
> So, on the basis of that single dose, I am also left to conclude that there is a stimulant effect, but that is so "gentle" during the day that it is unnoticeable, as such. I can feel a cup of coffee, but I don't feel stimulated by the taurine. I am quite intrigued, and you can bet I will be studying taurine metabolism more fully.
>From this and another post of yours on this topic, I am intrigued also. I'm really glad it is helping you. I'll have to add it to the list to try.
By the way, what was your experience with Picamilon? (Don't remember if I've asked you that yet.) I've only taken it once or twice. I've yet to get the full effect or any of the stimulating effect. That's something I'll try soon though. From this site I've gotten a good source to get it cheaply in bulk but I worry about the purity when it doesn't have a name brand attached. Is that a valid fear do you think?
> > > I hope so, too. Actually, I was drawn to the thread by an administrative action, but hey! Whatever gets me going is good.
> > >
> >
> > Speaking of administrative action, did you know that Chemist was blocked for a week? (or was that the administrative action you were referring to?)
>
> Yes, it was. I caught it on Admin, then went looking for the thread. Chemist and I are cut from similar cloth, it seems.
>Yes. I like to think of him as the Larry Hoover of the regular PB board. (LOL)
> > I had a part in that so I feel a little bad about it - but not too bad as it's only a week and he knew where his actions might lead. He fought the good fight anyway.
>
> There was a principle worth fighting for its full expression. I know that feeling well.
>
> > I could understand that. Where would you/we be without our virtual e-friends? I'm at the stage of wanting to see people and find out what they look like and what their lives are really like. That would ruin the openness and anonymity of course but enquiring minds want to know! I'm intrigued by the concept of pouring out your heart and most personal stories and feelings to someone(s) on-line and then knowing that you could walk right past that "stranger" in the real world and never have any clue as to what you have shared with him/her/them. (BTW, how does your girlfriend feel about sharing you with all of us?)
>
> I told you I loved questions. Her answer was, "It makes me fall in love with you more honey". Now, is that too kewl, or what?
She sounds pretty terrific herself.>
> I consider the evolution of the internet a godsend. I can take what I want, and leave the rest.
>
> > > > > > I don't know what else is going on with you but I do hope that things get better soon or at least that you are able to deal with it all better.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have many tools in my toolbox. All things in their time. Everything works out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end.
> > > > >
> >
> > So good to hear. That's what worried me so about Scott - he wasn't seeing any more tools in the toolbox.
>
> I shall never forget his post to me when I said farewell, this spring. I thought I might never return, but perhaps I was letting go of something else. Anyway, I'm thinking of you, Scott. And praying for some peace to come into your life.
>Ironically, I just happened to read that posting from Scott (led there from Admin where I originally went to read the follow-up about Chemist's block). All I can say is WOOOOOOOOOWWWWW! So raw yet so articulate, so emotional yet so rational. He is very special.
It has been very helpful to me to see men being so in touch with their feelings and so unabashedly forthcoming with them.
(As an aside - he dropped my last post to him because I tried to get him to consider alternative treatments. I didn't have much hope of changing his mind but, since he was seeing so few options left, I felt I had to try - but I won't bring it up again. Hope he's still talking to me.)
> Aside: the word disease comes to us from the Old French "desaisu", which means 'not at peace'. Mental disease takes on its real meaning, with that concept. A mind not at peace.
It don't get much clearer than that!
>
> > > > > I fell off a truck and broke my elbow back in January. I have nerve damage and there's something wonky in the joint (it locks up, with ice-pick pain). MRI on the 26th, and surgery, I think. There's always something, eh?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Major bummer but at least they think it's fixable. (C'est la vie.)
> > >
> > > Oui. Que sera, sera.
> >
> > I just burst into song upon reading that ...
>
> It's the silver lining phenomenon. :-)
>
> > > I try to act like a beach ball held under water. Lots of buoyancy.
> > >
> >
> > Good analogy or should I say metaphor?
>
> Pedantically, you'd say simile. The word "like" or "as" is the comparator term, 'similar to'.
>ok, I'll try not to make that mistake again.
> > > If only they would pay me for it.
> >
> > That would be nice. Of course once you win that lottery, you won't need it!
>
> I keep trying, but they won't give me the money, yet. I love the word yet. It changes everything it touches.
>
> > Until later,
> > K
>
> Cyberhugs,
> Lar
Cyberhugs back,
K
Posted by Indie on July 18, 2004, at 17:36:12
In reply to Re: so, is the dose for taurine 3gm/d and what time? » Simus, posted by Larry Hoover on July 17, 2004, at 11:20:43
WOW. This Taurine sounds like a magic pill. With the effects that it has on alcoholism, is it possible that it would help with cigarette addiction?? I HATE being a smoker. I have tried all of the patch, nicorette gum, welbutrin, etc. Whenever I try to quit smoking it sends me into a severe tailspin. As I am severely depressed at the moment, making it worse is not a good idea!!
Any thoughts??
Thanks,
Indie> > Larry,
> >
> > Is there a concern in getting too much of an amino acid? Is there perhaps a toxic level?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Simus
>
> I suppose, but how do we determine "too much"? There's the rub.
>
> We generally think of about 20 amino acids when we use the term, and those are the ones which are major components of food proteins. Half of those 20 are essential, meaning we have to get them from food. We are unable to synthesize those from anything else.
>
> The term amino acid, though, actually encompasses hundreds, if not thousands, of compounds. GABA is an amino acid. SAMe is an amino acid. DOPA is an amino acid. 5-HTP is one.
>
> Taurine is one of a rare class, though. Instead of the carboxylic acid group, it has a sulfonic acid group. Taurine is the sulfonic acid version of GABA.
>
> Taurine is found in food, and we can synthesize a little bit of it, but our synthetic enzymes are weak, on a relative comparison with most mammals. Cats have lost taurine synthesis altogether, and it must be in their food or they die.
>
> Although taurine is found in food, it is not a component of protein (with the exception of the simplest of all proteins, the dipeptide, merely two aminos linked together). It has an incredible number of effects within the body. If you are supplementing taurine, how much is too much? Hard to say, but if you listen to your body's reaction, you'll probably be able to figure that out (within reason).
>
> Here's a link to a taurine article that does not mention psych effects. It'll give you a pretty good overview of general physical effects, and therapeutic doses.
>
> http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/taurine3-2.html
>
> I see a reference to six grams per day for four weeks, as an example. I don't know of any toxic effects of taurine (Yet. I'm continuing to research taurine.). That said, your own body may reveal adverse effects. For example, I think my own body has shown a greater resistance to sleep (I already have severe insomnia), yet improved restfulness from the sleep I do get. I am not going to take any taurine today, because I don't feel like I need any. So, four days at about 3 grams per day, and I'm going to take a break from it. But I'll surely take it again, as needed.
>
> What I find to be most amazing about taurine is that I don't feel drugged in the slightest. It is almost an anti-drug. I have lost the feeling that I might benefit from a drug. That is how it feels....I notice what I no longer feel much more succinctly that any literal effect. I'm simply feeling....uhhh....better.
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by TeeJay on July 18, 2004, at 18:30:50
In reply to Nicotiene addiction » Larry Hoover, posted by Indie on July 18, 2004, at 17:36:12
I smoked 3 packs a day for almost 20 years...god awful "habit" and one I have not done now for 18 months.
I did it with the aid of a book...Easy way to stop smoking by Allen Carr. Its dead easy to read and its intensely powerful, ie it unbrainwashes you while you continue smoking!! I chain smoked my way through the book and put out my last ciggy when I'd finished the book!
I've suffered from CFS, anxiety, depression and a host of other associated ailments for almost 17 years and stopping smoking is the biggest thing thats helped give me my health back. Its taken a long time and the first year I felt little difference (in fact at times I even felt a bit worse as my brain chemistry changed due to the lack of nicotine) but hand on heart, I can honestly say I *DO* fel better both physically and mentally for not smoking.
I couldnt recommend the book enough, and note how you HATE smoking (I did too). The book is the tool you are missing from your smoking cessation toolbox. Good luck.
TJ
Posted by Indie on July 19, 2004, at 8:34:11
In reply to Re: Nicotiene addiction » Indie, posted by TeeJay on July 18, 2004, at 18:30:50
Thanks for the tip TeeJay. I read the reviews on amazon and almost everybody said that they had the same great results except for a couple of people that said that the medical info was not accurate. I must admit that I am still highly sceptical but, given that the price of the book is less than half the price of a carton of cigarettes, I will give it a try.
Wish me luck.
Posted by TeeJay on July 19, 2004, at 19:04:10
In reply to Re: Nicotiene addiction » TeeJay, posted by Indie on July 19, 2004, at 8:34:11
Hi Indie,
You wont need luck, trust me. I smoked for 20 years and 3 packs a day is more than just a casual habit!! I was petrified to go ANYWHERE without them and got panicky at the very thought of not having them around me.
What the book does is makes you realise that its only the nicotine addiction that makes you feel this way and that in actual fact, there is nothing to miss by not smoking (although the nicotine convinces you otherwise).
Once you get your head around the fact you DONT NEED THEM then its a piece of cake.....the book dispells all the bullsh*t reasons we all give to keep us smoking like "it helps my nerves", "they calm me down", "they give me confidence" and dozens of other reasons to, and once its done this then you are left with one undeniable fact......you have no reason to smoke and not smoking wont result in missing anything. I was convinced that I NEEDED cigarettes in times of stress and was convinced I couldnt handle stressful times without them. I can tell you now that I have had some seriously stressful events since not smoking, including watching my dad die of cancer yet I got through it all without a single cigarette and looking back, I can assure you that I actually handled the stress BETTER without cigaettes.....this fact even shocked me, but the book was spot on here too!!
I'll stop waffling now anyway Indie....all I will say to you is this....read the book with an open mind (no more and no less) and you'll be a very happy and contended ex-smoker. Trust me, NOBODY ever thought i'd stop.
TJ
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 20, 2004, at 8:44:05
In reply to Nicotiene addiction » Larry Hoover, posted by Indie on July 18, 2004, at 17:36:12
> WOW. This Taurine sounds like a magic pill. With the effects that it has on alcoholism, is it possible that it would help with cigarette addiction?? I HATE being a smoker. I have tried all of the patch, nicorette gum, welbutrin, etc. Whenever I try to quit smoking it sends me into a severe tailspin. As I am severely depressed at the moment, making it worse is not a good idea!!
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Thanks,
> IndieI looked closely at the topic, and you weren't the first to wonder. Experiments using lab animals were an utter failure, and I saw no human trials of any sort. Seems to be very alcohol-specific. That said, it may still have calming properties that might help during withdrawal, but not specific to withdrawal.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on July 23, 2004, at 16:56:15
In reply to Re: Nicotiene addiction » Indie, posted by TeeJay on July 18, 2004, at 18:30:50
Hello -
good luck with the book - I tried it and it didn't work for me. Well, it worked for a week and then I was smoking again. However a week was the most I'd ever gotten to! Just don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't work - you can still give up if you really want to (I haven't yet, so I do sympathize).>
I too am a cynical person, and very untrusting, so maybe that is why the brainwashing didn't work as it should on me.
Good luck with it!
Loops
I smoked 3 packs a day for almost 20 years...god awful "habit" and one I have not done now for 18 months.
>
> I did it with the aid of a book...Easy way to stop smoking by Allen Carr. Its dead easy to read and its intensely powerful, ie it unbrainwashes you while you continue smoking!! I chain smoked my way through the book and put out my last ciggy when I'd finished the book!
>
> I've suffered from CFS, anxiety, depression and a host of other associated ailments for almost 17 years and stopping smoking is the biggest thing thats helped give me my health back. Its taken a long time and the first year I felt little difference (in fact at times I even felt a bit worse as my brain chemistry changed due to the lack of nicotine) but hand on heart, I can honestly say I *DO* fel better both physically and mentally for not smoking.
>
> I couldnt recommend the book enough, and note how you HATE smoking (I did too). The book is the tool you are missing from your smoking cessation toolbox. Good luck.
>
> TJ
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2004, at 8:26:40
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 16:43:55
Hi Kara.
> Ironically, I just happened to read that posting from Scott
> (As an aside - he dropped my last post to him because I tried to get him to consider alternative treatments. I didn't have much hope of changing his mind but, since he was seeing so few options left, I felt I had to try - but I won't bring it up again. Hope he's still talking to me.)
You are a dear.
Of course I'm still talking to you! Silly.
:-)
Please don't confuse my lack of posting for anything else but a lack of energy and focus. First of all, I would feel cheated were you to give up on me so soon for not coming over to any "new way of thinking". I wish I were able to participate more on these boards. My ability to read and think is so very limited, I have to be prudent in the way I apportion my resources.
I stumbled onto this thread by accident while performing a search on Google about acamprosate. I was astounded that you were aware of the suggestions that it might prevent tolerance to stimulants. It was just approved today as the branded product Campral by Forrest Labs. I'm going to add it to my "toolbox". In what direction are you headed with Taurine?
Thanks for the kind words and warm sentiments. I'm only sorry that I might be missing more nice things being said about me all of this time. :-)
Hi Larry.
Love you guys...
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 1:22:55
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression » KaraS, posted by SLS on July 30, 2004, at 8:26:40
> Hi Kara.
>
> > Ironically, I just happened to read that posting from Scott
>
> > (As an aside - he dropped my last post to him because I tried to get him to consider alternative treatments. I didn't have much hope of changing his mind but, since he was seeing so few options left, I felt I had to try - but I won't bring it up again. Hope he's still talking to me.)
>
> You are a dear.
>
> Of course I'm still talking to you! Silly.
>
> :-)
>Good. I'm so glad!
> Please don't confuse my lack of posting for anything else but a lack of energy and focus. First of all, I would feel cheated were you to give up on me so soon for not coming over to any "new way of thinking". I wish I were able to participate more on these boards. My ability to read and think is so very limited, I have to be prudent in the way I apportion my resources.
>I should have known that's all it was since I often have the same problem. (I have since read many of your posts on the alternative board so at this point I don't even think that you're not open to it.)
> I stumbled onto this thread by accident while performing a search on Google about acamprosate. I was astounded that you were aware of the suggestions that it might prevent tolerance to stimulants. It was just approved today as the branded product Campral by Forrest Labs. I'm going to add it to my "toolbox". In what direction are you headed with Taurine?
>You were astounded that I knew about acamprosate? Me, the one who informed you about cholinergic urticaria? (Just kidding.) Actually, I had read quite a long time ago several posts by AndrewB and others on the topic of NMDA antagonists to prevent tolerance. I did hear that acamprosate was recently approved here in the U.S. for the treatment of alcoholism. (It can be easily purchased from Britain with a prescription anyway.)
Are you asking me about taurine to see if I'm planning on taking it to try to regulate immune function and thereby treat my urticaria? I wasn't planning on trying it for that reason. I was just intrigued by Larry's description of what it has done for him. It's not at the top of my list of things to try right now though. I have bigger fish to fry at the moment. Are you going to try it soon?
> Thanks for the kind words and warm sentiments. I'm only sorry that I might be missing more nice things being said about me all of this time. :-)
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Love you guys...
>
>
> - Scott
>Love you back,
Cyberhug,
Kara
Posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 2:39:36
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 1:22:55
Scott,
I just reread the old post of mine that you were referring to, where I asked Larry questions about his comparison of taurine to acamprosate from a previous post. So you were probably wondering if I were going to try to use taurine to prevent tolerance of stimulants. I was just trying to find out if it might have some of that effect if/when the days comes that I might need it.
-K
Posted by SLS on August 1, 2004, at 8:24:20
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 2:39:36
> I just reread the old post of mine that you were referring to, where I asked Larry questions about his comparison of taurine to acamprosate from a previous post. So you were probably wondering if I were going to try to use taurine to prevent tolerance of stimulants. I was just trying to find out if it might have some of that effect if/when the days comes that I might need it.
Hi Kara.I was curious about taurine for two reasons. I got the impression from the posts here that it might suppress autoimmune responses or perhaps reduce inflammation. Although I am not heading with my full focus in this direction, there are some who have looked at pathogens, encephalopathies, and chronic inflammatory processes as causes of psychiatric illness. Also, my father has primary biliary cirrhosis, which is an autoimmune disease. I'm just keeping a lookout for anything that might slow down the progress of his illness.
On another note, since I reduced the temperature of the water when I take showers, itching has not been so much of a problem. I am continuing with Zonegran for now, but it is not helping with the depression and is just producing additional fatigue.
Hoping all is well with you...
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 16:12:47
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression » KaraS, posted by SLS on August 1, 2004, at 8:24:20
> > I just reread the old post of mine that you were referring to, where I asked Larry questions about his comparison of taurine to acamprosate from a previous post. So you were probably wondering if I were going to try to use taurine to prevent tolerance of stimulants. I was just trying to find out if it might have some of that effect if/when the days comes that I might need it.
>
>
> Hi Kara.
>
> I was curious about taurine for two reasons. I got the impression from the posts here that it might suppress autoimmune responses or perhaps reduce inflammation. Although I am not heading with my full focus in this direction, there are some who have looked at pathogens, encephalopathies, and chronic inflammatory processes as causes of psychiatric illness. Also, my father has primary biliary cirrhosis, which is an autoimmune disease. I'm just keeping a lookout for anything that might slow down the progress of his illness.
>
> On another note, since I reduced the temperature of the water when I take showers, itching has not been so much of a problem. I am continuing with Zonegran for now, but it is not helping with the depression and is just producing additional fatigue.
>
> Hoping all is well with you...
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
Scott,
It makes sense to me that pathogens, encephalopathies, and chronic inflammatory processes could be causes of some cases of psychiatric illness. Does enough research exist on this topic to seek out? In terms of your father's illness, hopefully we can get stem cell research funded more (which I imagine could help a lot in a case like his).Glad to hear that the urticaria isn't a big problem for you. Wish you were having more success with the Zonegran though. Drug induced fatigue can be such a depressant all by itself.
I wasn't doing very well until a few days ago when I got a boost from my sister visiting. I also took a short vacation with her and her family. I was worried I might be a total drag to them but it turned out well. Sometimes just getting out into a new environment can help a bit.
KaraP.S. I could warn you when nice things are being said about you but wouldn't that ruin the surprise?
Posted by T-rotten on August 8, 2004, at 3:09:31
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 16:12:47
Hello all! I was looking for TAURINE and foud it here. I just wanna know if taurine + Mg is Good for manic phase of bipolar depression. And what could I add to it?
Anybody can halp me? (It isnt to me)
tanks.
Posted by T-rotten on August 10, 2004, at 2:51:10
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by T-rotten on August 8, 2004, at 3:09:31
> Hello all! I was looking for TAURINE and foud it here. I just wanna know if taurine + Mg is Good for manic phase of bipolar depression. And what could I add to it?
> Anybody can halp me? (It isnt to me)
> tanks.Anybody can give me some info? even redirect to a helpfull post?
Posted by guttersnipe on August 11, 2004, at 1:50:34
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression So?, posted by T-rotten on August 10, 2004, at 2:51:10
> > Hello all! I was looking for TAURINE and foud it here. I just wanna know if taurine + Mg is Good for manic phase of bipolar depression. And what could I add to it?
> > Anybody can halp me? (It isnt to me)
> > tanks.
>
> Anybody can give me some info? even redirect to a helpfull post?Yeah, taurine seems rather effective for me, although it doesn't seem to have quite as much of an anti-depressant effect for me as an anti-manic effect. Too help keep me from getting too wound up, I also take niacinamide, which I've read helps to potentiate GABA (and which has a calmative effect for me), as well as a general B-vitamin complex and a general multivitamin/mineral. Fish oil high in omega-3 fatty acids has also been shown to be helpful for manic-depression, and my state of mind has improved a bit since I started taking the stuff. I don't tolerate magnesium supplements very well, but I've heard that they can be somewhat helpful. A few weeks ago, someone posted a message here saying that quercitin is an effective anti-manic supplement (having some effect on protein kinase C, if I recall correctly). I've seen quercetin in my local health food co-op, but I haven't tried it because the taurine seems to be doing a good job of keeping me out of manic or mixed states (knock on wood). If you search the archives here you'll find folks' past comments on all or most of those things. Good luck.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:29:54
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on August 1, 2004, at 2:39:36
> Scott,
> I just reread the old post of mine that you were referring to, where I asked Larry questions about his comparison of taurine to acamprosate from a previous post. So you were probably wondering if I were going to try to use taurine to prevent tolerance of stimulants. I was just trying to find out if it might have some of that effect if/when the days comes that I might need it.
> -KI've an interesting anecdote to add to the taurine tale. I was exposed to substantial MSG after consuming Chinese take-out without asking for the MSG-restricted version. Doh! I was feeling very ill from the MSG, when I suddenly recalled that an "antagonist" (used loosely) for glutamate was taurine. A couple grams of taurine, and I felt very well indeed.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:43:05
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression » KaraS, posted by SLS on August 1, 2004, at 8:24:20
> On another note, since I reduced the temperature of the water when I take showers, itching has not been so much of a problem.
You sound like you're describing cholinergic urticaria? It may be caused by incomplete digestion of protein in the stomach. You may benefit from e.g. bromelain supplements. It also has anti-inflammatory activity.
Also, niacinamide would likely reduce the histaminic release responsible for the itching sensation.
> I am continuing with Zonegran for now, but it is not helping with the depression and is just producing additional fatigue.
>
> Hoping all is well with you...
>
>
> - ScottHope you're pulling out of the slump, dude.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:44:37
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by T-rotten on August 8, 2004, at 3:09:31
> Hello all! I was looking for TAURINE and foud it here. I just wanna know if taurine + Mg is Good for manic phase of bipolar depression.
Yes, both are good for mania.
> And what could I add to it?
> Anybody can halp me? (It isnt to me)
> tanks.Fish oil.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 14:02:04
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:29:54
> > Scott,
> > I just reread the old post of mine that you were referring to, where I asked Larry questions about his comparison of taurine to acamprosate from a previous post. So you were probably wondering if I were going to try to use taurine to prevent tolerance of stimulants. I was just trying to find out if it might have some of that effect if/when the days comes that I might need it.
> > -K
>
> I've an interesting anecdote to add to the taurine tale. I was exposed to substantial MSG after consuming Chinese take-out without asking for the MSG-restricted version. Doh! I was feeling very ill from the MSG, when I suddenly recalled that an "antagonist" (used loosely) for glutamate was taurine. A couple grams of taurine, and I felt very well indeed.
>
> Lar
>
>That is soooooo good to know!!! Because even when you ask sometimes to have the MSG taken out, they still put it in there. I'm definitely going to buy some taurine for that purpose.
THANK YOU!
-K
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 15, 2004, at 13:51:18
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression, posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 14:02:04
> That is soooooo good to know!!! Because even when you ask sometimes to have the MSG taken out, they still put it in there. I'm definitely going to buy some taurine for that purpose.
>
> THANK YOU!
>
> -KWell, it is far from *proven*, but I'd sure like to hear other peoples' experiences on the subject. Maybe we should call it The Hoover Effect?
BTW, soy sauce is the original source for MSG....they analysed what was in soy sauce that made for flavour enhancement, and it turned out to be free glutamate, which precipitates out of solution as the sodium salt.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 15, 2004, at 16:42:00
In reply to Re: Lar...Taurine and mixed anxiety/depression » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 15, 2004, at 13:51:18
Larry,
You said this to Scott in a previous post in this thread:
"... cholinergic urticaria? It may be caused by incomplete digestion of protein in the stomach. You may benefit from e.g. bromelain supplements. It also has anti-inflammatory activity."
Is that just a theory or is there some real evidence that incomplete digestion of protein causes urticaria? Are there any other theories or facts about possible causes of cholinergic urticaria? As someone who itches like crazy every time I try to exercise, I'd be very interested in knowing the answer to that. If, in fact, the cause is undigested protein, then that might also account for the fact that I don't respond to amino acid precursor treatment, and might just explain my depression in general.
Also, I have quercetin/bromelain capsules here at home. I'm wondering how much to take for allergy and digestion. Each capsule contains 250 mg. of quercetin and 125 mg. of bromelain.
Thanks.
-K
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