![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 179. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 6:30:16
In reply to Re: changing, posted by Dr. Bob on May 3, 2013, at 1:33:13
> Hi, everyone,
>
> You can help this site run smoothly by notifying me of issues you see on the boards. Please don't do that in posts, however; posting that others are annoying, hurtful, self-centered, etc., can lead them to feel accused. Instead, use the "notify administrators" buttons below the posts:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#help
>
> This applies even to those who have difficulty understanding how, or why, it applies to them. I feel this guideline is benign and helpful. It's reasonable and fair to apply it to everyone equally.
>
> Lately, I've been trying to separate the sides in conflicts. If two sides are too far apart, giving them separate threads may lessen conflict between them without invalidating either of them:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1042870.html
>
> I support efforts to protect and reassure other posters. Lou may express what they think and fear. What would reassure posters who feel frightened? Blocking Lou?
>
> Some posters may not want to hear what Lou has to say, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's uncivil. Some posters may be extremely limited in their ability to be empathic with him. Instead, they may obsess and perseverate about their agendas and perceived harms.
>
> I don't think I underestimate the intelligence and deliberative capacities of posters. I start with the assumption that they, especially with the help of others, can decide what information to trust and what information to ignore:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#trust
>
> Which side is more capable of changing? Maybe it's an inevitable dialectic.
>
> Bob
>
> --
>
> > However, Lou has made even more frequent comments which many in the community find personally harmful and even threatening
> >
> > Twinleaf
>
> > I agree with Twinleaf. I don't understand why your discouragement of exaggerations and overgeneralizations have not applied to Lou Pilder over the last few years. In addition, I feel that he is badgering other posters, especially when those posters ask him to desist.
> >
> > - Scott
>
> > I think many here interact with him not because they're interested in what he says, but because they're trying to protect others here, and especially newcomers, who may be upset and possibly driven away by his unrealistic but frightening comments. I myself have done this, because it's not fair to those who are unaware of his actions and history.
> >
> > Also to leave his voice unopposed seems wrong and disloyal to oneself and others who struggle with depression and go through difficult times, when what sometimes feel more like threats, than helpful warnings, may accord with someone's own thoughts or fears.
> >
> > Willful
>
> > I think the basic message he brings is great, and sometimes its difficult to get the message across that he brings to this site because no one wants to hear the very bad things about a pill they swallow every day.
> >
> > We all have flaws in how we go about doing things, but its wouldn't be good if everyone around you pointed them out to you at every single chance. Just turn the other cheek.
> >
> > poser938
>
> > Perhaps you underestimate the intelligence and deliberative capacities of the people who choose to take these pills.
> >
> > - Scott
>
> > He seems to be relying more and more on the community to manage its own problems. Yet I think it is especially difficult when someone is paranoid or narcisistic because they are extremely limited in their ability to be empathic or have a shared dialogue with another person. Instead, they obsess and perseverate about their agenda and percieved harms. It's both frustrating and sad how impaired socially these individuals can be.
> >
> > Toph
>
> > I would very much like to see minimal civility requirements applied, even to those who might have difficulty understanding how, or why, they apply to them. I feel that the present civility rules are benign and helpful. It would be reasonable and fair to apply them to everyone equally, and might have a beneficial effect that we will not know about. In their current form, they are simply normal social expectations and could be helpful to people who may have become extremely isolated.They certainly won't hurt anyone.
> >
> > Twinleaf
>
> > Without the administration drawing the line, as you put it, participants are left with just ignoring these individuals, I'm afraid. Pointing out how annoying, hurtful and self-centered they are sure hasn't helped.
> >
> > Toph
>
> > People who are not familiar with the authors of such posts don't know to ignore them.
> >
> > - Scott
>
> > All I know is I gave up thinking this poster is capable of changing a long time ago.
> >
> > TophMr Hsiung,
You wrote to advocate to members,[...notifying me of issues you see on the boards...].
I would like for you to post here answers to the following so that parents trying to make a more-informed decision as to give any credibility to what is plainly visible here as to if it is or is not going to be good for their child to be drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor or not. If you could post answers to the following here, then I could respond to you and try to save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions, and prevent hate from being promulgated here.True or false.
A. Members using the notification feature to me will have their concerns about what is in the post addressed before I address the years of outstanding notifications from you, Lou.
B. Members using the notification feature to me will have their concerns addressed by me after I address the years of outstanding notifications from you, Lou.
C. There are two standards here, Lou. The notifications from you will be treated differently than notifications from other members.
D. Any stigmatization to you because there are years of outstanding notifications from you, Lou, could happen and I will now address all of your outstanding notifications so that any stigmatization of you could be removed.
E. By me leaving your notifications to me outstanding, I can control the content and any notifications involving statements that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings could then have the potential to infuse hatred toward the Jews because support takes precedence and those type of statements that are allowed to stand could be thought by some to be supportive.
F. It will be good for this community as a whole to leave your notifications outstanding, Lou, because any of those outstanding notifications that defame you and cause the flame of hate, could be left to be allowed to still burn.
G. I am going to leave your notifications outstanding, Lou, including any that could lead someone to their death because some could think that what is in question is supportive because it is not addressed.
H. I am going to continue to allow others here to post false accusations about you, so using the notification feature will be of no avail to you to have me stop what my own rules state is not allowed to be posted about someone here.
K. I will continue to allow others here to post what is called [manufacturing a falsehood} toward you, even though tactics like that could put you in a false light and create a {hate-group} of members here that could inflict emotional distress in you.
L. redacted by respondent
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 7:13:18
In reply to Lou's request-heytgrewp » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 6:30:16
> > Hi, everyone,
> >
> > You can help this site run smoothly by notifying me of issues you see on the boards. Please don't do that in posts, however; posting that others are annoying, hurtful, self-centered, etc., can lead them to feel accused. Instead, use the "notify administrators" buttons below the posts:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#help
> >
> > This applies even to those who have difficulty understanding how, or why, it applies to them. I feel this guideline is benign and helpful. It's reasonable and fair to apply it to everyone equally.
> >
> > Lately, I've been trying to separate the sides in conflicts. If two sides are too far apart, giving them separate threads may lessen conflict between them without invalidating either of them:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1042870.html
> >
> > I support efforts to protect and reassure other posters. Lou may express what they think and fear. What would reassure posters who feel frightened? Blocking Lou?
> >
> > Some posters may not want to hear what Lou has to say, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's uncivil. Some posters may be extremely limited in their ability to be empathic with him. Instead, they may obsess and perseverate about their agendas and perceived harms.
> >
> > I don't think I underestimate the intelligence and deliberative capacities of posters. I start with the assumption that they, especially with the help of others, can decide what information to trust and what information to ignore:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#trust
> >
> > Which side is more capable of changing? Maybe it's an inevitable dialectic.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > --
> >
> > > However, Lou has made even more frequent comments which many in the community find personally harmful and even threatening
> > >
> > > Twinleaf
> >
> > > I agree with Twinleaf. I don't understand why your discouragement of exaggerations and overgeneralizations have not applied to Lou Pilder over the last few years. In addition, I feel that he is badgering other posters, especially when those posters ask him to desist.
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > > I think many here interact with him not because they're interested in what he says, but because they're trying to protect others here, and especially newcomers, who may be upset and possibly driven away by his unrealistic but frightening comments. I myself have done this, because it's not fair to those who are unaware of his actions and history.
> > >
> > > Also to leave his voice unopposed seems wrong and disloyal to oneself and others who struggle with depression and go through difficult times, when what sometimes feel more like threats, than helpful warnings, may accord with someone's own thoughts or fears.
> > >
> > > Willful
> >
> > > I think the basic message he brings is great, and sometimes its difficult to get the message across that he brings to this site because no one wants to hear the very bad things about a pill they swallow every day.
> > >
> > > We all have flaws in how we go about doing things, but its wouldn't be good if everyone around you pointed them out to you at every single chance. Just turn the other cheek.
> > >
> > > poser938
> >
> > > Perhaps you underestimate the intelligence and deliberative capacities of the people who choose to take these pills.
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > > He seems to be relying more and more on the community to manage its own problems. Yet I think it is especially difficult when someone is paranoid or narcisistic because they are extremely limited in their ability to be empathic or have a shared dialogue with another person. Instead, they obsess and perseverate about their agenda and percieved harms. It's both frustrating and sad how impaired socially these individuals can be.
> > >
> > > Toph
> >
> > > I would very much like to see minimal civility requirements applied, even to those who might have difficulty understanding how, or why, they apply to them. I feel that the present civility rules are benign and helpful. It would be reasonable and fair to apply them to everyone equally, and might have a beneficial effect that we will not know about. In their current form, they are simply normal social expectations and could be helpful to people who may have become extremely isolated.They certainly won't hurt anyone.
> > >
> > > Twinleaf
> >
> > > Without the administration drawing the line, as you put it, participants are left with just ignoring these individuals, I'm afraid. Pointing out how annoying, hurtful and self-centered they are sure hasn't helped.
> > >
> > > Toph
> >
> > > People who are not familiar with the authors of such posts don't know to ignore them.
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > > All I know is I gave up thinking this poster is capable of changing a long time ago.
> > >
> > > Toph
>
> Mr Hsiung,
> You wrote to advocate to members,[...notifying me of issues you see on the boards...].
> I would like for you to post here answers to the following so that parents trying to make a more-informed decision as to give any credibility to what is plainly visible here as to if it is or is not going to be good for their child to be drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor or not. If you could post answers to the following here, then I could respond to you and try to save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions, and prevent hate from being promulgated here.
>
> True or false.
> A. Members using the notification feature to me will have their concerns about what is in the post addressed before I address the years of outstanding notifications from you, Lou.
> B. Members using the notification feature to me will have their concerns addressed by me after I address the years of outstanding notifications from you, Lou.
> C. There are two standards here, Lou. The notifications from you will be treated differently than notifications from other members.
> D. Any stigmatization to you because there are years of outstanding notifications from you, Lou, could happen and I will now address all of your outstanding notifications so that any stigmatization of you could be removed.
> E. By me leaving your notifications to me outstanding, I can control the content and any notifications involving statements that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings could then have the potential to infuse hatred toward the Jews because support takes precedence and those type of statements that are allowed to stand could be thought by some to be supportive.
> F. It will be good for this community as a whole to leave your notifications outstanding, Lou, because any of those outstanding notifications that defame you and cause the flame of hate, could be left to be allowed to still burn.
> G. I am going to leave your notifications outstanding, Lou, including any that could lead someone to their death because some could think that what is in question is supportive because it is not addressed.
> H. I am going to continue to allow others here to post false accusations about you, so using the notification feature will be of no avail to you to have me stop what my own rules state is not allowed to be posted about someone here.
> K. I will continue to allow others here to post what is called [manufacturing a falsehood} toward you, even though tactics like that could put you in a false light and create a {hate-group} of members here that could inflict emotional distress in you.
> L. redacted by respondent
> Lou PilderFriends,
If you are interested in being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you read he following. The paper is about how hate-groups are established in a community. I tis from notable psychologists and goes over how propaganda a and prejudice is fostered in a group. It goes on about how hate I learned.
I am trying to stop hate from being promulgated here in particular toward Jews but not limited to them. When hate is allowed to stand, others could think that the hate is {state-sponsored} and will b good for the community as a whole. And when hate is allowed, suicide and murder, even mass-murder can abound.
Lou
http://www2.webster.edu/~woolflm/HateDummies.pdf
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 9:16:06
In reply to I respectfully agree with Twinlead and SLS » SLS, posted by Willful on April 30, 2013, at 22:33:39
> I commend Twinlead and SLS for the responses they've given re Lou's not seeming to be subject to the same civility rules as everyone else.
>
> He does badger posters repeatedly, with disturbing warnings about dire consequences if they follow their prescribed treatment, and even after being politely asked to stop, he continues the harassment.
>
> I think many here interact with him not because they're interested in what he says, but because they're trying to protect others here, and especially newcomers, who may be upset and possibly driven away by his unrealistic but frightening comments. I myself have done this, because it's not fair to those who are unaware of his actions and history.
>
> Also to leave his voice unopposed seems wrong and disloyal to oneself and others who struggle with depression and go through difficult times, when what sometimes feel more like threats, than helpful warnings, may accord with someone's own thoughts or fears.
>
> I would hope that you can reconsider your view of the civility of his actions here.
>
> And I also hope that those who affirm this view will not be sanctioned as a result.
>
> WillfulFriends,
I am requesting that you take heed that no member deceives you. The falsehood that is manufactured here about me concerning the false accusation that I am badgering, is allowed to stand by the owner here so that readers could think that it is supportive. That I am supposed to stop posting concerning the aspect of that these drugs could cause death, suicide, murder and addictions and life-ruining conditions is false and a great lie about me. I was not posting {to the poster} but {responding to what the poster posted}. That is plainly visible in my subject line as a response to what is posted which all have the freedom to do here.
Now this post falsely accusing me could put a false light on me when no false light is deserved. If you are a parent trying to have more information as to drug you child with the collaboration of a psychiatrist/doctor, and you are swayed by the fact that statements that deride me, accuse me falsely, put me in a false light, defame me, then I say to you to read the other posts here that defame Jews and arouse anti-Semitic feelings and members crying out to have me blocked, which is all being allowed here. What does that tell you? Do you want hate to sway you into drugging your child?
Lou
Posted by Twinleaf on May 5, 2013, at 10:29:52
In reply to Re: feeling empowered, posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2013, at 2:19:36
I feel threatened by the response, "be careful what you wish for", and also by your describing my posts as "battles" . I have only said, very respectfully, that I would like to see pbc's given to Lou in the same way they are given to others. I have been especially careful to let you know that I support and appreciate how you are running the boards; whenever I have expressed my hopes concerning Lou, I have done so in this context - appreciative, respectful, courteous. I would hope we could have a difference of opinion on this issue without it being framed as a "battle" which apparently requires a threat directed towards me.
Posted by SLS on May 5, 2013, at 12:04:27
In reply to Lou's request-hetwilswey, posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 9:16:06
> I am requesting that you take heed that no member deceives you. The falsehood that is manufactured here about me
I think that you persistently publish falsehoods regarding the practice of psychiaty. You are presented with citations that disprove your contentions, but you never address them. So let's not accuse others of the manufacture of falsehoods. In my estimation, you do this far more often than any other poster.
> concerning the false accusation that I am badgering
* Badger: to harass or urge persistently; pester; nag
- www.dictionary.com> is allowed to stand by the owner here so that readers could think that it is supportive.
Your incessant posting of falsehoods along a thread despite the requests of its initiator that you desist is just one example of your badgering. I don't think there is a rule that explicitly uses the word "badgering". However the FAQ suggests that to "harass or pressure others" is uncivil.
* Harass: Synonyms
1. badger
- www.dictionary.com> That I am supposed to stop posting concerning the aspect of that these drugs could cause death
Almost any drug will cause death if not managed properly. Here, you exaggerate and overgeneralize. It is true that drugs in general can cause death. However, you always imply that psychiatric drugs are unique in this regard. They are not.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16294364
> suicide, murder and addictions and life-ruining conditions is false and a great lie about me.
I don't like to repeatedly invest the time and energy to contest your same litany of disinformation, exaggerations, and overgeneralizations. Historically, others have contested your assertions without your engaging them in a dialogue. You do not debate. You simply badger the entire forum
At this point, I feel that it is the responsibility of the moderator to enforce his own rules of posting conduct as described in the website FAQ page. I am less desirous of participating here today than I was yesterday. This saddens me.
> Now this post falsely accusing me
Accuses you of what?
> If you are a parent trying to have more information as to drug you child with the collaboration of a psychiatrist/doctor, and you are swayed by the fact that statements that deride me, accuse me falsely, put me in a false light, defame me, then I say to you to read the other posts here that defame Jews and arouse anti-Semitic feelings and members crying out to have me blocked, which is all being allowed here. What does that tell you? Do you want hate to sway you into drugging your child?
In the preceding paragraph, you manage to exaggerate, overgeneralize, accuse, and put down an entire forum of people. Let's see if the administration engages in moderation by issuing a PBC to you and/or me.
This whole thing sickens me.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 14:32:00
In reply to Moderation. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 5, 2013, at 12:04:27
> > I am requesting that you take heed that no member deceives you. The falsehood that is manufactured here about me
>
> I think that you persistently publish falsehoods regarding the practice of psychiaty. You are presented with citations that disprove your contentions, but you never address them. So let's not accuse others of the manufacture of falsehoods. In my estimation, you do this far more often than any other poster.
>
> > concerning the false accusation that I am badgering
>
> * Badger: to harass or urge persistently; pester; nag
> - www.dictionary.com
>
> > is allowed to stand by the owner here so that readers could think that it is supportive.
>
> Your incessant posting of falsehoods along a thread despite the requests of its initiator that you desist is just one example of your badgering. I don't think there is a rule that explicitly uses the word "badgering". However the FAQ suggests that to "harass or pressure others" is uncivil.
>
> * Harass: Synonyms
> 1. badger
> - www.dictionary.com
>
> > That I am supposed to stop posting concerning the aspect of that these drugs could cause death
>
> Almost any drug will cause death if not managed properly. Here, you exaggerate and overgeneralize. It is true that drugs in general can cause death. However, you always imply that psychiatric drugs are unique in this regard. They are not.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16294364
>
> > suicide, murder and addictions and life-ruining conditions is false and a great lie about me.
>
> I don't like to repeatedly invest the time and energy to contest your same litany of disinformation, exaggerations, and overgeneralizations. Historically, others have contested your assertions without your engaging them in a dialogue. You do not debate. You simply badger the entire forum
>
> At this point, I feel that it is the responsibility of the moderator to enforce his own rules of posting conduct as described in the website FAQ page. I am less desirous of participating here today than I was yesterday. This saddens me.
>
> > Now this post falsely accusing me
>
> Accuses you of what?
>
> > If you are a parent trying to have more information as to drug you child with the collaboration of a psychiatrist/doctor, and you are swayed by the fact that statements that deride me, accuse me falsely, put me in a false light, defame me, then I say to you to read the other posts here that defame Jews and arouse anti-Semitic feelings and members crying out to have me blocked, which is all being allowed here. What does that tell you? Do you want hate to sway you into drugging your child?
>
> In the preceding paragraph, you manage to exaggerate, overgeneralize, accuse, and put down an entire forum of people. Let's see if the administration engages in moderation by issuing a PBC to you and/or me.
>
> This whole thing sickens me.
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
Let no poster deceive you. Many will come here saying that I am against psychiatry and drugs. I am not against psychiatry and/or drugs. I am against death. It is one thing to have to take a drug or die because you do not take a medicine. But it is another thing to tell people that they have to take mind-altering drugs or they will kill themselves when it is now well-known that those same drugs can INCREASE SUICIDAL/HOMOCIDAL THINKING. It is one thing to take a drug for a few days or weeks to cure a disease that could kill you, like pneumonia, and it is another thing to take a drug for years even when there is the accepted aspect that the drug could cause you to be addicted to it, or have cardiac arrest or diabetes or liver failure, kidney failure or receive a life-long misery of hideous disfigurement from tardive dyskinesia/dystonia. It is one thing to have to take a drug make up for a lack of thyroid, but it is another thing to take a drug where people are falsely led to believe that they have a lack of fluoride in their brain and that they need to take the drug to correct a "chemical imbalance", a theory that is illegal in Ireland to use by the drug manufacturers and a theory that has been proven to be false, over and over, by medical science. Yet today, people here can tell others to take a chemical that has its origin in an era that I am prohibited by Mr Hsiung to post educational material that I think could open your eyes and save your life. And it has been revealed to me a Great Deception contained in the scriptures that if I was not prohibited to post it by Mr Hsiung, lives could be saved, the deception would be uncovered and that could open the Gate to life of abundance and peace.
Friends, be not deceived. For there will be response upon responses posted here that all members have a freedom to do. My responses to what is posted here is not disinformation, nor are my responses exaggerating or overgeneralizing. In fact, they are sometimes undergeneralizing because in the generally accepted number of deaths last year from psychiatric drugging of 42,000, that number could be 100 times more than that for the 42000 are the generally accepted reported number and there could be 100 times that unreported.
My friends, this forum is for support and education. You can not have true education without academic freedom. And Mr Hsiung as prof knows full-well that he is protected by law to have academic freedom and freedom of speech. Universities could not carry out their mission without academic freedom. And academic freedom can not be taken away because someone doesn't like what you say. That, if it happens, is (redacted by respondent) that was put away many years ago and I would not like its ugly head to rise out of its grave here. Now I am willing to wager that Mr Hsiung could well be a psychiatrist that does not accept the "chemical imbalance" theory. Just that he has a forum for what he calls medications, he could also know that there are psychiatrists that do not go along with the party line like Dr. Peter Breggin.
Friends, responding to posts here is not badgering. If it was, no one could post their responses, there could not be different points of view to be encouraged as the TOS states here. My point of view, if trampled on, IMHHHO could lead to the deaths of many here, for if you look at the reported deaths of members here that were attributed to the drugs, do you not think that there are many more that are not reported and that I know a lot outside of this forum? How many people that read here that they saw the anti-Semitic statements being allowed to stand here over my years of objections, go out and kill because they saw it on "Dr.Bobs"? You may think that it is far-fetched, but now there is a growing body of evidence that those that take mind-altering drugs in collaboration with a psychiatrist and believe that hate is supportive, can and do go out and kill themselves and/or others because the hate that they see as supportive, can be transferred to others and themselves to even kill their own mother and innocent children.
Posted by SLS on May 5, 2013, at 16:05:59
In reply to Lou's reponse-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 14:32:00
Saying the same thing over and over again will not make it true. In this website's archives, you will find that people have already debunked your statistics and their source. They have also offered a more balanced perspective than your exaggerated descriptions of death, suicide, and homicide as they relate to mental illness and its treatment and non-treatment. Numerous citations have been presented to support these alternative views and explanations. It does not matter how many times people have challenged you and educated the readers, you continue to post the same unaltered disinformation.
I have no desire to refute your writings here. I've already done so over and over again. I will let the moderator allow you to continue posting your previously disallowed exaggerations, overgeneralizations, and accusations as he currently does so over and over again.
It is too bad that you actually believe the disinformation that you perpetrate here. Only you know the extent to which you make statements that you know to be untrue.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
I'm getting tired of posting this link over and over again. I shouldn't have to.
- Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on May 5, 2013, at 16:35:16
In reply to Over and over again. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 5, 2013, at 16:05:59
I respectfully but strongly support Scott. He has given extremely accurate summaries of why Lou's posts are harmful - especially to new, inexperienced posters. He should not have to do this over and over again.
We all understand that we are dealing with a serious situation which appears to be marked by inflexibility and perseveration, and where choosing new behaviors involving more responsiveness to others' views may not be a real possibility. All the more reason why we really need a moderator who will use his powers fairly and consistently so that all members of the forum have as good an experience here as possible.
Posted by Lou PIlder on May 5, 2013, at 21:50:32
In reply to Re: Over and over again. » SLS, posted by Twinleaf on May 5, 2013, at 16:35:16
> I respectfully but strongly support Scott. He has given extremely accurate summaries of why Lou's posts are harmful - especially to new, inexperienced posters. He should not have to do this over and over again.
>
> We all understand that we are dealing with a serious situation which appears to be marked by inflexibility and perseveration, and where choosing new behaviors involving more responsiveness to others' views may not be a real possibility. All the more reason why we really need a moderator who will use his powers fairly and consistently so that all members of the forum have as good an experience here as possible.Friends,
You can read here that this poster goes along with Scott that my posts are harmful and Scott says that what I have posted is disinformation.
Here is one video that I posted and I have never seen anyone here or outside of here that wrote anything to disprove what is in the video. In fact, what is stated in the video is accepted in many scientific circles and used in court cases. If anyone want to "debunk" anything that is in this video, I could have the opportunity to respond. This is my warning to those that are influenced by wha is posted here about me to discount what am writing about, that what you see in this video has not been debunked at all so it could mark the difference between you being a live person or a corpse as to what you want to discount or not by the nature of Scott's post to me here.
Lou
Here is the link and then there is the video in the link.
http://www.encognitive.com/node/886
Posted by Willful on May 5, 2013, at 23:42:57
In reply to Lou's reponse-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 5, 2013, at 14:32:00
I'm trying to formulate a response that comprehends all the ways I find this long paragraph in some parts not only irrational but potentially harmful-- and in others ad hominem in ways that I believe would be unacceptable in other posters.
But I've given up. In fact, I think most of us have given up hope that Lou's behavior will be constrained, and that most of our efforts in this forum will not be spent trying to mitigate the potential harm that Lou may cause by jumping onto any new poster who writes in distress.
I say this in regret, but this whole thing is such a perversion of what this place should be.
Posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 7:56:08
In reply to Re: Lou's reponse-, posted by Willful on May 5, 2013, at 23:42:57
Again, I find myself conflicted over directing words of disapproval towards Dr. Bob. It saddens me. I would much prefer to shower him with the accolades that he still deserves for the preponderance of his acts, both past and present.
I am angry. My anger comes from a place of frustration and disgust. I am certainly not disgusted by Dr. Bob as a personage, and I still respect and admire him for much that he has accomplished. His continued support of the Psycho-Babble website deserves recognition and appreciation. However, I am baffled by his inaction such that he allows certain posters the freedom to post in ways that have been proscribed by this website's stated guidelines for civil conduct. I may be one such poster. However, I do not feel that I am putting down Lou Pilder by my calling him out by name. I doubt that Dr. Bob considered himself uncivil for doing the same. It is difficult not to describe the facts as they are without identifying the antagonist in this story. His posts are uncivil. His behaviors are uniquely deleterious to the health of this website. The moderator of this forum has decided to allow them, despite their having clearly violated the rules here. Sometimes, I wonder if he is afraid to do otherwise.
What would be the consequences of blocking Lou Pilder from posting were he to qualify for blockage according to historic moderation procedures? Would we necessarily be subject to the exact same interpretations, judgments, and mathematical blocking formulas that existed in the past? I believe that historic moderation can be relaxed substantially and still qualify certain posts as being eligible for the blockage of the poster.
You know, this is a pretty disgusting post. I feel disgusting for submit it. However, I find even more disgusting the status quo on Psycho-Babble. If it were not for the wonderful people who participate here and the sophistication of their contributions, I would be long gone.
While it is on my mind, I would like to voice my support for the continued use of the user interface employed by Psycho-Babble. Although it has been deemed archaic by some, legacy does not mean inferior. In the case of Psycho-Babble, I find its legacy posting format to be far easier and time-efficient to navigate than the more contemporary formats.
- Scott
Posted by Lou PIlder on May 6, 2013, at 8:36:22
In reply to Lou's warning-violnz, posted by Lou PIlder on May 5, 2013, at 21:50:32
> > I respectfully but strongly support Scott. He has given extremely accurate summaries of why Lou's posts are harmful - especially to new, inexperienced posters. He should not have to do this over and over again.
> >
> > We all understand that we are dealing with a serious situation which appears to be marked by inflexibility and perseveration, and where choosing new behaviors involving more responsiveness to others' views may not be a real possibility. All the more reason why we really need a moderator who will use his powers fairly and consistently so that all members of the forum have as good an experience here as possible.
>
> Friends,
> You can read here that this poster goes along with Scott that my posts are harmful and Scott says that what I have posted is disinformation.
> Here is one video that I posted and I have never seen anyone here or outside of here that wrote anything to disprove what is in the video. In fact, what is stated in the video is accepted in many scientific circles and used in court cases. If anyone want to "debunk" anything that is in this video, I could have the opportunity to respond. This is my warning to those that are influenced by wha is posted here about me to discount what am writing about, that what you see in this video has not been debunked at all so it could mark the difference between you being a live person or a corpse as to what you want to discount or not by the nature of Scott's post to me here.
> Lou
> Here is the link and then there is the video in the link.
> http://www.encognitive.com/node/886
>Friends,
Here is a video that I posted and if there is anyone that wants to post here that they can "debunk" the content of the video, then go ahead and I will show you differently. In fact, I will show you that the drugs can actually worsen your depression and have the potential to induce a mind-altered state to compel you to kill yourself and/or others and even commit mass-murder and kill your own family and innocent children. To see this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, vpAEapBfXe0]
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on May 6, 2013, at 10:14:58
In reply to Lou's warning-psueahpsyd-datzpstewphidd, posted by Lou PIlder on May 6, 2013, at 8:36:22
> > > I respectfully but strongly support Scott. He has given extremely accurate summaries of why Lou's posts are harmful - especially to new, inexperienced posters. He should not have to do this over and over again.
> > >
> > > We all understand that we are dealing with a serious situation which appears to be marked by inflexibility and perseveration, and where choosing new behaviors involving more responsiveness to others' views may not be a real possibility. All the more reason why we really need a moderator who will use his powers fairly and consistently so that all members of the forum have as good an experience here as possible.
> >
> > Friends,
> > You can read here that this poster goes along with Scott that my posts are harmful and Scott says that what I have posted is disinformation.
> > Here is one video that I posted and I have never seen anyone here or outside of here that wrote anything to disprove what is in the video. In fact, what is stated in the video is accepted in many scientific circles and used in court cases. If anyone want to "debunk" anything that is in this video, I could have the opportunity to respond. This is my warning to those that are influenced by wha is posted here about me to discount what am writing about, that what you see in this video has not been debunked at all so it could mark the difference between you being a live person or a corpse as to what you want to discount or not by the nature of Scott's post to me here.
> > Lou
> > Here is the link and then there is the video in the link.
> > http://www.encognitive.com/node/886
> >
>
> Friends,
> Here is a video that I posted and if there is anyone that wants to post here that they can "debunk" the content of the video, then go ahead and I will show you differently. In fact, I will show you that the drugs can actually worsen your depression and have the potential to induce a mind-altered state to compel you to kill yourself and/or others and even commit mass-murder and kill your own family and innocent children. To see this video:
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube, vpAEapBfXe0]
> Lou
>
Friends,
Be advised that it is well-known how hate groups are fostered in a community and the horrific damage to the members that the hate induces to those that are in those groups. In this case here, hate in a person that takes mind-altering dugs in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, could go into a mind-altered state to be compelled to kill themselves and/or others, even those that are not the hated by the group, for the hate can be transferred to others, even their own family members. Be advised that I see clearly how hatred toward me and the Jews and others is allowed to be fostered here. It is so easy to do here be just allowing what is plainly visible here as the record shows years of outstanding notifications/requests from me to Mr Hsiung and his previous deputies and his deputy now. The prohibitions to me by Mr Hsiung also prevent readers from knowing what I need to post here. It is so easy to persuade the uninformed. You do not have to be a mastermind to keep people uninformed. It is my great conviction that those that have died here as attributed by the drugs, could still be alive if those prohibitions to me were never posted to me here by Mr Hsiung.
But now lets see how hate is fostered here toward me and the Jews and others.
First, psychologists have studied how hate is formed in a community to make a hate-group. It is not a mystery and you do not have to be a mastermind to foster a hate-group. For hate can be a mask that the hater wares to hide their insecurities. And then the hate elevates the hater above the ones that they are hating, (in their own minds that is). Then the hater solicits others to hate the target so that they can get what they think is validation from others to elevate (falsely) their self-worth and to prevent others from exposing them as having personal insecurities.
The haters thinks that they will be empowered by being in a group which they believe becomes a shield to prevent accountability for their acts of hatred. Hate ties the group together with their common cause so that they can debase the object of their hate which they think will bolster their self-image.
This becomes fashionable in a group where hate toward others is allowed to stand. The haters blame the victim of their hate to justify the hate. Their minds can be taken over by them falsely thinking that they will be doing good by destroying their target of hate. And then the target is not allowed to stand up to the bullies with hatred toward them. But I say to you that if when you target someone other than me for hate, I'll be there. And when I see you posting here defamation toward someone other than me, I'll be there. And when you post hate here about me, it has been revealed to me that someone greater than me will be there.
Friends, be not deceived. If you join the group here that is posting defamation toward me that is being allowed by Mr Hsiung, how could you escape the consequences that hate could induce in you?
Lou
Posted by Toph on May 6, 2013, at 10:30:36
In reply to Re: feeling powerless, posted by Dr. Bob on May 3, 2013, at 23:45:03
> > When you list my posts like this it makes me feel a little like a bully. Then I think of the posters who this individual has upset over the years and I feel less so.
> >
> > Toph
>
> Thank you for sharing that. You felt less like a bully, or more justified in bullying?
>
> Those who see others being bullied, or are bullied themselves, can start to feel justified in bullying others. If you felt more justified in bullying, you may have experienced firsthand how that can happen. And you may now be able to feel more empathy for bullies.
>
> Not that empathy is the answer to everything.
>
> --I never felt bullied by this poster. I know how lithium has saved my life; and though I may have caused someone to be offended by something I said, I am certain that I am not anti-semetic. So I am unfazed by his agenda. I have been blocked after getting entangled with him a couple times, but that was years ago. I have little patience for his obsessions and his apparent refusal to accept that he offends people. Can you bully a bully?
I like Dinah's suggestion. Posts on the med board should be limited to information, personal experience, side effects regarding a medication. All other rants about medication should go on the new Great Deception Board.
Posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 10:43:26
In reply to Lou's warning-heytgrewpz, posted by Lou PIlder on May 6, 2013, at 10:14:58
I'm sorry that you feel hated.
So that I may be clearly understood, I don't hate you. I hate that your posts are allowed to remain unsanctioned, despite the proscription against them in the website FAQ. Besides being uncivil, I think that they detract from the value of this site.
If I have been uncivil here, it is my hope that I be sanctioned along with you. Were I to be sanctioned without you, I would be greviously disappointed and indignant for such an inequity. I therefore appeal to Dr. Bob that he take action against any incivility that exists along this thread. If it his judgment that Lou Pilder's posts do not contain exaggerations, overgeneralizations, and accusations, I think it is incumbent upon him to define these three terms as they relate to civility in posting.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 13:51:42
In reply to Hating » Lou PIlder, posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 10:43:26
Funny.
From the outset, I knew that the time and energy I would devote to this issue would be an exercise in futility. Still, I continue to post. Nothing will change. The decision has been made and committed to. It will not be reversed. It is indeed a comedy that I might expect action from inaction. Of course, inaction is a behavior. I guess the moderator behaves as he feels is in the best interests of the website and its participants. I am just not sure that it is good enough to promote a healthy future for Psycho-Babble.
Funny?
- Scott
Posted by Lou PIlder on May 6, 2013, at 14:19:37
In reply to Lou's warning-heytgrewpz, posted by Lou PIlder on May 6, 2013, at 10:14:58
> > > > I respectfully but strongly support Scott. He has given extremely accurate summaries of why Lou's posts are harmful - especially to new, inexperienced posters. He should not have to do this over and over again.
> > > >
> > > > We all understand that we are dealing with a serious situation which appears to be marked by inflexibility and perseveration, and where choosing new behaviors involving more responsiveness to others' views may not be a real possibility. All the more reason why we really need a moderator who will use his powers fairly and consistently so that all members of the forum have as good an experience here as possible.
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > You can read here that this poster goes along with Scott that my posts are harmful and Scott says that what I have posted is disinformation.
> > > Here is one video that I posted and I have never seen anyone here or outside of here that wrote anything to disprove what is in the video. In fact, what is stated in the video is accepted in many scientific circles and used in court cases. If anyone want to "debunk" anything that is in this video, I could have the opportunity to respond. This is my warning to those that are influenced by wha is posted here about me to discount what am writing about, that what you see in this video has not been debunked at all so it could mark the difference between you being a live person or a corpse as to what you want to discount or not by the nature of Scott's post to me here.
> > > Lou
> > > Here is the link and then there is the video in the link.
> > > http://www.encognitive.com/node/886
> > >
> >
> > Friends,
> > Here is a video that I posted and if there is anyone that wants to post here that they can "debunk" the content of the video, then go ahead and I will show you differently. In fact, I will show you that the drugs can actually worsen your depression and have the potential to induce a mind-altered state to compel you to kill yourself and/or others and even commit mass-murder and kill your own family and innocent children. To see this video:
> > A. Pull up Google
> > B. Type in:
> > [youtube, vpAEapBfXe0]
> > Lou
> >
> Friends,
> Be advised that it is well-known how hate groups are fostered in a community and the horrific damage to the members that the hate induces to those that are in those groups. In this case here, hate in a person that takes mind-altering dugs in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, could go into a mind-altered state to be compelled to kill themselves and/or others, even those that are not the hated by the group, for the hate can be transferred to others, even their own family members. Be advised that I see clearly how hatred toward me and the Jews and others is allowed to be fostered here. It is so easy to do here be just allowing what is plainly visible here as the record shows years of outstanding notifications/requests from me to Mr Hsiung and his previous deputies and his deputy now. The prohibitions to me by Mr Hsiung also prevent readers from knowing what I need to post here. It is so easy to persuade the uninformed. You do not have to be a mastermind to keep people uninformed. It is my great conviction that those that have died here as attributed by the drugs, could still be alive if those prohibitions to me were never posted to me here by Mr Hsiung.
> But now lets see how hate is fostered here toward me and the Jews and others.
> First, psychologists have studied how hate is formed in a community to make a hate-group. It is not a mystery and you do not have to be a mastermind to foster a hate-group. For hate can be a mask that the hater wares to hide their insecurities. And then the hate elevates the hater above the ones that they are hating, (in their own minds that is). Then the hater solicits others to hate the target so that they can get what they think is validation from others to elevate (falsely) their self-worth and to prevent others from exposing them as having personal insecurities.
> The haters thinks that they will be empowered by being in a group which they believe becomes a shield to prevent accountability for their acts of hatred. Hate ties the group together with their common cause so that they can debase the object of their hate which they think will bolster their self-image.
> This becomes fashionable in a group where hate toward others is allowed to stand. The haters blame the victim of their hate to justify the hate. Their minds can be taken over by them falsely thinking that they will be doing good by destroying their target of hate. And then the target is not allowed to stand up to the bullies with hatred toward them. But I say to you that if when you target someone other than me for hate, I'll be there. And when I see you posting here defamation toward someone other than me, I'll be there. And when you post hate here about me, it has been revealed to me that someone greater than me will be there.
> Friends, be not deceived. If you join the group here that is posting defamation toward me that is being allowed by Mr Hsiung, how could you escape the consequences that hate could induce in you?
> LouFriends,
Be advised that I know of no post here where any of what I have been posting about has been "debunked".
In fact, there is a huge ongoing body of evidence that supports what I have been posting for years here that others are just know admitting to be fact and hat there have been so many deaths from psychotropic drugs that (redacted by respondent) if they listened to me.
Here is a video that I had posted here and if anyone want to post that anything in it is not true, go ahead and I will respond accordingly.
Lou
To see this video:
A. Bring up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, ARZ2Wv2BoFs]
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2013, at 17:40:29
In reply to Funny., posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 13:51:42
Ten years later and it's still going on. Other people get in trouble for their responses to Lou.
I hate for you to be one of those people.
I'll be looking with interest as well on this thread and the administration of it. But I'm not expecting anything that will make me at all content or happy.
It is what it is. Should it be different? I think so. But Bob doesn't really care what I think.
Stay safe. It's not like anything will change with civil disobedience. Bob does what he wants. Consider Bob to be a force of nature. A rather unpredictable wind. And Lou is like a force of nature as well on the board. A less unpredictable one. I personally have given up completely on being able to make any sort of difference here. If the benefits outweigh the costs, it's worth posting. If not, it's not worth posting.
Banging your head against Bob or Lou isn't going to hurt either of them at all.
The funny thing is, Scott, that I think Bob honestly appreciates you and Twinleaf and 10der and other posters who have contributed a lot over the years in a positive sense. It's just not always clear from his responses.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 6, 2013, at 18:27:33
In reply to Not funny » SLS, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2013, at 17:40:29
Thank you, Dinah - your kind words are much appreciated. I don't really know why this ancient problem is so hard to steer clear of. Partly, I think it's because I do hate to think of how scary this could be for new posters, but I think it's also because I do want to believe that Babble is moderated by someone who treats everyone with equality. That's an important requirement for me to feel that I am in a good place when I am here.
Posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2013, at 18:56:20
In reply to Re: Not funny, posted by Twinleaf on May 6, 2013, at 18:27:33
Posted by 10derheart on May 6, 2013, at 19:34:23
In reply to Re: Brainwashing (nm), posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2013, at 18:56:20
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2013, at 22:42:56
In reply to Conflicted again., posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 7:56:08
> What would be the consequences of blocking Lou Pilder from posting were he to qualify for blockage according to historic moderation procedures?What would be the consequences? Litigation. Or the threat of litigation. One that is taken seriously to a large enough extent.
gg
Posted by 10derheart on May 6, 2013, at 23:04:26
In reply to Re: Conflicted again. » SLS, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2013, at 22:42:56
Perhaps, and you know I know where you're coming from, but....
Dr. Bob has blocked Lou.
I may have blocked Lou myself, but it's hard to remember back so far. PBCs for sure.I don't think litigation ensued, although of course it may have...it's not like I am/was ever privileged to anything special about Dr. Bob and any poster.
And things could have...evolved after those times I am remembering.
But perhaps...the threat is more of an issue than I ever imagined.
I just tend to think Dr. Bob truly does not find most, or any of Lou's content uncivil. <shrug> I have good reason to think that. Nothing to do really...Dr. Bob is sometimes as changeable as the wind, like someone said...Dinah, maybe?
ps....always lovely to see your name :-)
Posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2013, at 0:32:50
In reply to Re: Conflicted again. » gardenergirl, posted by 10derheart on May 6, 2013, at 23:04:26
I know there have been past blocks. But I don't think there have been any since you and I were deputies and experienced that lovely trauma. I could be wrong.
And I don't know that any litigation actually ensued. But I know it was a threat for some time, and that leaves a mark on one.
But all that being said, I agree that whether something is uncivil or not is not always so obvious.
Hope you are well, friend.
gg
Posted by Willful on May 7, 2013, at 1:21:27
In reply to Funny., posted by SLS on May 6, 2013, at 13:51:42
I did seem to notice on the Med board, that Dr Bob had given a pbc for the response to your post to Lillabella. I hope that this signals that Bob has noticed the tenor of Lou's posts to some other posters.
I understand the ambivalence you feel, because I also believe that Bob contributed to many people's lives through psychobabble. I'm grateful to him for creating and sustaining this forum. Then, too he acts in good faith, but has a philosophy that I don't fully understand that guides his decision-making. I respect his right to act fairly within his definition---
But I also believe that we have a right-- or duty-- to speak about problematic or even destructive things that weaken our ability to be a real community. I try, although maybe not often enough, to question my own opinions-- and not to be too secure in their rightness--and to honor contributions such as Bob's-- but it's important also to have a honest voice, and not be swallowed by doubt.
I hope this place does continue as a constructive and open place, where new posters can find help, information, and understanding.
Willful
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