![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 257. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 7:51:25
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2010, at 23:51:46
I think it would be a good idea to have a review board. As it stands now, blocks have no real relation to a poster's willingness to return and abide by site rules. I'd rather see blocks be lifted if a poster agrees to abide by site guidelines. The first time, it could be based solely on their word that they are ready. After that, they could propose concrete ways that could help them stay within site guidelines. For example, choosing a civility buddy, choosing not to post on topics that have proved troublesome, etc.
An "ignore button" might help as well, since some repeat blocks seem to come about as a result of feelings about a particular poster. A mandatory ignore might help.
My warning would be that those who participate have to be willing to have some of the anger turned on Dr. Bob turned on them. Even if the elder decided to always rule in favor of leniency, a fair amount of anger comes from leniency as well.
I do not think Dr. Bob should turn over his decisions to majority rule. Why should I trust a group more than I trust Dr. Bob?
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 8:58:48
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 7:51:25
Those who believe they have a decent understanding of the civility guidelines could volunteer to make themselves available to those who feel they don't.
There are (at least) two functions of a civility buddy.
A civility buddy can be someone you use to review your posts if you're unsure of your civility, or if you think maybe you're too angry to judge, or if you feel your posts are being scrutinized by Dr. Bob.
A civility buddy can also be the recipient of the things you really oughtn't post. A person of like enough mind that you're able to vent your feelings to without fear of repercussions. Sometimes I preview my post to my civility buddy, then after I feel better, I say "Ok, now what can I actually write?" And believe it or not, the venting has helped my feelings reflect a more thoughtful and sensitive post than I might have previously made. Of course, I tend not to get worked up by discussing things that anger me. It's more likely that I see the absurdity of my anger, and recognize that perhaps I'm not entirely being generous in spirit. I nearly always talk myself down with my civility buddy. It might not be as useful if talking to a civility buddy just stirs up feelings of outrage.
I greatly urge that everyone who feels the need, and who would benefit, make use of a civility buddy.
I think the second function is best served by choosing a friend of like mind and might not be the sort of thing where volunteers are useful. But I am more than willing to volunteer for the first function. As long as I am treated politely.
Would anyone else be willing to volunteer to be available to those who are uncertain how the civility guidelines might apply to their post? Perhaps Dr. Bob could include in the FAQ or provide a link in his pbc's to a list of posters who can be babblemailed in those circumstances? If the post still gets flagged, the civility buddy could explain their role, and ask for further clarification. If Dr. Bob finds a civility buddy is consistently missing the mark, he could request that they get further training before being listed as a resource.
It would be a pragmatic way of reducing blocks.
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 9:02:01
In reply to And how about volunteer civility buddies?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 8:58:48
Of course, I totally credit my civility buddy for helping me see how my feelings might be a bit... extreme without ever making me feel bad about it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 9:52:42
In reply to Re: Amnesty, posted by muffled on November 9, 2010, at 0:49:16
> What if I just have a bad frikken day full of triggers and screw up?
If you screw up, and no one helps you backpedal, then unfortunately there may be consequences.
> Besides, this comes across as a crap bandaid fix to try and make yourself look good or something. What will this actually PROVE???
The main idea would be to get all blocks cut in half, not to prove anything, but it would also prove that posters have the power to be civil. And IMO they would look good, too.
> You are just making yet another random unpreditable confusing out of the blue change here.
See:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/893534.html
> > Why does it have to be unconditional? What if posters were civil as a show of good faith and saw if that had a positive effect? :-)
>
> Cuz maybe it would show some friggin respect for the posters if it was unconditional.Maybe it would show more respect for me if posters were civil. :-)
> Do you not see that you are putting MORE pressure on posters with the ultimatum??????
> Now its not just, if you screw up, your banished, now its if you screw up your banished and you've screwed your friends over too....It could feel like more pressure. But they wouldn't have to deal with it alone, they could work together.
Bob
Posted by floatingbridge on November 9, 2010, at 10:46:42
In reply to And how about volunteer civility buddies?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 8:58:48
This sounds good, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 13:10:54
In reply to Re: And how about volunteer civility buddies? » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on November 9, 2010, at 10:46:42
Would it be something you'd be willing to do?
I think there would be less chance of being on the receiving end of anger if the poster had chosen to seek out help. Certainly, I've experienced that unasked for assistance isn't always well received.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 9, 2010, at 13:37:25
In reply to Re: And how about volunteer civility buddies? » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 13:10:54
Dinah,
I'd be willing to consider it. I have much to learn about civility myself.
I do think your suggestion is pragmatic and could be implemented fairly easily.
It may not solve all that everyone would like; then what would? That said, I can see how having civility buddies could encourage a healthier, more supportive community. While it may not be possible for everyone to feel heard by Dr. Bob, babble members would have a greater
chance of feeling heard by someone.I think it is a constructive suggestion. Thank you for it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 17:57:31
In reply to And how about volunteer civility buddies?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 8:58:48
> Would anyone else be willing to volunteer to be available to those who are uncertain how the civility guidelines might apply to their post? Perhaps Dr. Bob could include in the FAQ or provide a link in his pbc's to a list of posters who can be babblemailed in those circumstances? If the post still gets flagged, the civility buddy could explain their role, and ask for further clarification. If Dr. Bob finds a civility buddy is consistently missing the mark, he could request that they get further training before being listed as a resource.
I think that's a great idea. Could I delegate it to you? Which I guess would mean soliciting volunteers, doing any training that's necessary, and maintaining the list? I'd be happy to include a link in the FAQ and PBCs.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:12:17
In reply to Re: And how about volunteer civility buddies?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 17:57:31
I suppose so, although since you make the civility calls, you'd have to let me know when more training is needed.
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:19:59
In reply to Re: And how about volunteer civility buddies? » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:12:17
Don't worry if you don't feel your understanding of the civility guidelines is perfect. No one's understanding is perfect. You can always ask for guidance and training as you think it necessary.
It's not even necessary that you agree with the civility guidelines so long as you're willing to help people avoid blocks by staying within them.
You can contact me here or by babblemail.
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:22:41
In reply to Re: And how about volunteer civility buddies? » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on November 9, 2010, at 13:37:25
You are welcome, and I hope you consider it. If you have any questions about Dr. Bob's civility decisions, you could always ask me, or anyone else you think may understand.
It would be interesting to see what could come of it. There might even be some side benefits of increased feelings of community.
Posted by 10derheart on November 9, 2010, at 21:19:33
In reply to All righty then. Who would be interested?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:19:59
I don't think I need any training just at the moment ;-)
Only caveat is time. If a poster feels they need to post quickly...I am not always available. I can generally read Babble/email once or twice a day. i can't promise super-quick responses, but I would do my best.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 23:15:46
In reply to Re: And how about volunteer civility buddies? » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:12:17
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 23:49:18
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 7:51:25
> Nominations and elections?
>
> Solstice> Is Bob going to give a council some tools?
> Is he going to give them as a council some of his power?
>
> muffled> I think it would be a good idea to have a review board. As it stands now, blocks have no real relation to a poster's willingness to return and abide by site rules. I'd rather see blocks be lifted if a poster agrees to abide by site guidelines. The first time, it could be based solely on their word that they are ready. After that, they could propose concrete ways that could help them stay within site guidelines. For example, choosing a civility buddy, choosing not to post on topics that have proved troublesome, etc.
>
> DinahWhat if the council had the power to lift blocks? (after some minimum cooling-off period) What tools would they need? Would they be given criteria for making their decisions or would they have the freedom to decide however they wanted? Would there be any requirements besides being nominated?
FYI, requirements to be a deputy:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#required
Bob
Posted by Deneb on November 10, 2010, at 0:00:52
In reply to All righty then. Who would be interested?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:19:59
I'm interested. I think I understand most of the rules.
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 0:30:32
In reply to I am. I may be a little rusty but... » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on November 9, 2010, at 21:19:33
I think your training is just fine. :)
I think it really needs to be clear that this is a volunteer position and that not every volunteer will be available at any given time. We've all got other responsibilities.
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 0:32:39
In reply to Re: All righty then. Who would be interested?, posted by Deneb on November 10, 2010, at 0:00:52
I think so too. I've seen you make very helpful posts when people seem confused.
Posted by 10derheart on November 10, 2010, at 1:21:23
In reply to Great! » Deneb, posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 0:32:39
Ditto that :-)
~~~~signed~~~
fan of Deneb ;-)
Posted by PartlyCloudy on November 10, 2010, at 8:30:49
In reply to All righty then. Who would be interested?, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2010, at 18:19:59
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 8:34:19
In reply to I'd like to volunteer. (nm) » Dinah, posted by PartlyCloudy on November 10, 2010, at 8:30:49
I know you'll be a great asset.
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 8:39:00
In reply to Terrific! » PartlyCloudy, posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 8:34:19
That's four of us, if I'm counting correctly. Would anyone else like to volunteer?
It isn't necessary that you *like* the civility rules. Only that you have an understanding of where the line is and a willingness to help others avoid blocks by staying within it. Upon request. In fact, there may be posters who are more comfortable asking someone they see as not particularly liking the civility rules.
(Dr. Bob, maybe you could seggregate the discussion about civility buddies from the discussion about the council of elders. I think it might be confusing as it is. Sorry I didn't start a separate thread.)
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 8:53:14
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council, posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2010, at 23:49:18
If this is implemented, I think it would be important to have some criteria for parole. Leaving it entirely to the choice of the parole board, so to speak, might lead to conscious or unconscious favoring of the popular, or confusion and distrust by posters.
The criteria could be developed by you, or by the council, or through discussion and at least partial consensus on the administration board.
But transparency has always been a value on Babble, and I think it's a value that should continue in any implementation of parole. People should be able to understand if they might meet criteria before they apply, and why they were rejected if they were rejected. People should be able to understand the process, and the likely result, IMO.
Otherwise it would lead to more confusion and anger than exist with civility guidelines. And the council might be faced with even more anger than in my opinion is already unfortunately likely.
As I stated before, I'd suggest linking parole to a willingness to abide by site guidelines upon return. The first time could be based entirely on the word of the person asking for it. The next time and subsequent times could ask for more assurances than that, if the word has proven to be insufficient. There could be a fair amount of judgment on the parole board's part on what that might be. But I think the basic framework should be easily understandable by all.
That's just my suggestion. I'm sure others would have other suggestions.
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 10:06:00
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council, posted by muffled on November 9, 2010, at 0:30:41
> Is he going to give them as a council some of his power?
> Remembering the deps...
> Bob UTTERLY bailed on them...I've seen a lot of comments about Dr. Bob and deputies, and I don't think the comments reflect the reality.
Certainly it's true that we had very little power. Certainly it's true that Dr. Bob can be maddening to work with, and that may be the straw that broke the camel's back for some deputies. And perhaps Dr. Bob was the sole reason for some deputies leaving.
But you'll notice that many deputies participate less at Babble as posters after becoming deputies. Can you imagine what it feels like to post something personal in an attempt to receive support, and see that post used to hurt you on Admin because you're a hated deputy? Can you imagine how it feels to be the target of rage, when your only goal was to help the people who are angry with you? Can you imagine how it feels to be on the receiving end of belittlement, contempt, and outright threats?
If you can, you might understand better why some deputies quit, and what a small role Dr. Bob can play in that. And why former deputies might feel a certain skepticism at the ideal of group leadership, and a desire to warn others of the pain and fear that can come from putting yourself on the firing line, even from the best of motives.
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 10:08:46
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 10:06:00
I forgot to mention former friends becoming former friends because you're a deputy.
Or people saying yes, they might at one time have felt friendly with you, but they can't anymore because you're a deputy and a minion of Bob.
Posted by muffled on November 10, 2010, at 10:28:53
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council, posted by Dinah on November 10, 2010, at 10:08:46
> I forgot to mention former friends becoming former friends because you're a deputy.
>
> Or people saying yes, they might at one time have felt friendly with you, but they can't anymore because you're a deputy and a minion of Bob.*Well maybe I can split off things better, cuz the nature of my disorder. Cuz it never was an issue for me.
But ya, as long as Bob has all the power and doesn't listen to a deputy, then ya, they are a minion... :( :( :(min·ion noun \ˈmin-yən\
Definition of MINION
1: a servile dependent, follower, or underling
2: one highly favored : idol
3: a subordinate or petty official
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.