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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 152. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jost on December 1, 2006, at 14:50:40
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by zazenduckie on December 1, 2006, at 14:32:37
On the other hand, maybe there are topics that could be more productive than the effects or prevalence of types of blocks.
The issues around blocks may be too contentious, although there's a lot that's conceptually interesting.There must be other interesting topics.
Did you have any particular ideas, Bob?
Jost
Posted by wishingstar on December 1, 2006, at 15:15:56
In reply to more research here, posted by Dr. Bob on December 1, 2006, at 13:16:52
Dr Bob,
I dont have any particularly bright ideas on research topics at this moment, but I'd like to volunteer to be involved in this if you do decide to do any work regarding the boards. I am 3/4 of my way through a masters in psychological sciences (research methadology, essentially) and the thing I hate most about the program is that I'm always doing work that feels so pointless, like it's never going anywhere. But I would certainly be interested in research regarding the boards, even indirectly, and if there is any way I could be involved in any way, I'd love that. Of course, you might not be looking for help in that way, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway. I live close to DC and definitely plan to be at APA in 2008.
I'll let you know if I think of any great ideas. I do agree with Jost's idea of looking at the blocking system, but I also wonder if that isnt too touchy of a topic right now. I'm not sure how it could be done.. obviously you couldnt do it in a true experimental style.. and I'm afraid the emotion a lot of people hold about blocks right now would make it hard to get any sort of self-measures. I dont know. I'm thinking out loud.
Thanks for putting this question out there for us to discuss DrBob.
ws
Posted by zazenduckie on December 1, 2006, at 15:22:33
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by Jost on December 1, 2006, at 14:50:40
Yeah some other things might lead to a more flattering picture of babble or maybe not. Who knows? Although the blocking policy is unique in all the world as far as I know and quite fascinating. And I believe it has a very large impact on Babble in general.
You could follow up with a lot of the old posters that show up now and then as well as some that post regularly. Get anecdotes about what they like about babble and why they stuck around, what long term impact babble had on their lives etc etc etc
It wouldn't involve as many people though. That would be a drawback.
I think someone needs to evaluate the quality of medical advice given on the board, particularly the rate at which people are diagnosing others or recommending specific drugs or herbals or particular dosages or practicing medicine without a license if that should occur. But I don't think that could be done by the board itself.
You could just do some questionaires or surveys *yaaaawn*
What DO you think Bob? Do you really think the board can do research or are you thinking more in terms of a presentation like you did before?
Posted by zazenduckie on December 1, 2006, at 15:36:13
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by zazenduckie on December 1, 2006, at 15:22:33
Sorry. Second thoughts.
Posted by Declan on December 1, 2006, at 20:22:18
In reply to more research here, posted by Dr. Bob on December 1, 2006, at 13:16:52
There are more interesting things here to look at than the blocking system.
The interaction of personalities, the way likes and dislikes arise, the way people express difficult feelings, the formation of factions.
Posted by muffled on December 1, 2006, at 20:30:03
In reply to Some ideas, posted by Declan on December 1, 2006, at 20:22:18
why the f*ck do they let people like me live?
Fascinating question.
Why thye f*ck am I such a freak.
Nuther question.
So go ahead and kick me in the head cuz I don't f*cking care anymore.
I CANNOT handle this CRAP.Muffkled
Posted by madeline on December 2, 2006, at 6:47:34
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by zazenduckie on December 1, 2006, at 15:22:33
....I think someone needs to evaluate the quality of medical advice given on the board, particularly the rate at which people are diagnosing others or recommending specific drugs or herbals or particular dosages or practicing medicine without a license if that should occur...
Boy do I agree with THAT!
Posted by SLS on December 2, 2006, at 7:20:15
In reply to Yeah, I got an idea, posted by muffled on December 1, 2006, at 20:30:03
> why the f*ck do they let people like me live?
> Fascinating question.
> Why thye f*ck am I such a freak.
> Nuther question.
> So go ahead and kick me in the head cuz I don't f*cking care anymore.
I f*cking care.> I CANNOT handle this CRAP.
I don't know what it is that you can't handle. It sounds like you are going through a bad time. Perhaps you can choose another Psycho-Babble board to post on to help you out. The only advice I can offer you is that you probably can't trust your thoughts right now. When we get depressed or emotionally entangled, our thoughts become skewed towards being negative and amplified. Things often seem worse than they really are. That doesn't mean that there aren't real things to be upset about. It just means that for the moment, everything seems overwhelming because of the cognitive distortion known as catastrophic thinking.
Anyway, please trust the fact that this bad time and negative state of mind will pass, no matter how real things seem at the moment. You know this is true because you've probably been through this before, and things did get better.
Oh. By the way. You are not a freak. I hear this said by so many people, especially when they are going through a bad time. They think they are somehow alone in their suffering and different from everyone else. Unfortunately, there are too many people exactly like you. No way are you a freak.
- Scott
Posted by muffled on December 2, 2006, at 10:41:53
In reply to Re: Yeah, I got an idea » muffled, posted by SLS on December 2, 2006, at 7:20:15
Scott, you are a breath of fresh air!
Thank you for your straightforwardness!
I'm sorry I got off the rails some.
But this train is back on its track.
Mebbe us 'freaks' is the normal ones and the normal ones are really thr freaks?!?!LOL.
I just re read the post. Its well written, I gonna cut and paste it to my journal if thats OK.
:-)Thanks again
Muffled
Posted by Declan on December 2, 2006, at 14:02:30
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by Jost on December 1, 2006, at 13:26:30
Political affiliation as a predictor of reaction to the blocking system?
(There was a good article in Harpers some time back: Reality TV and the Republican Mindset.)
The most interesting thing here is all the different people and the way they get on.
Posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 2, 2006, at 14:46:39
In reply to Re: more research here » Jost, posted by Declan on December 2, 2006, at 14:02:30
A few ideas:
Pick a sample of Babblers who post regularly for 12 weeks, and fill out the babble-o-meter regularly
Track these babbler's progress over time.
Here's a hypothesis: Babblers who "improve" on their CES-D are satisfied with their anti-depressant medication, or at least are not changing medication during a period of improvement.
Are babblers with more symptoms (on one of the babble-o-meter measures) more likely to give or elicit support?
Take babblers with an increase in symptoms or impairment over a period of time (15 weeks?) (according to babble-o-meter measures). Are these babblers more likely to give vs. elicit support? Are these babblers more likely to be posting about changes in Medication, changes in psychotherapy, major life stressors? Are these babblers more likely to engage in "risky" babble activity, such as posting on the Politics, Faith, or Admin boards? Are these babblers more or less loquatious?
I can see a number of interesting studies coming out of this. I think it's important to examine how the standarized measures of mental health relate to posting behavior, and self-reported accounts of current treatment.
For instance, I believe that I elicit more support when I'm very anxious and very depressed than when I'm anti-anxious and anti-depressed. I believe that I *give* more support when I am on a trajectory of "improvement".
Just for fun, I'd also like to see whether there's a relation between "risky" posting behavior (defined above) and the number of asterisks a poster has accumulated :)
Average post-length per board in characters,
Average number of distinct posters per week on various boards
Average thread-length per boardAre certain boards associated with having lots of symptoms/poorer functioning (according to babble-o-meter measures)? Are certain boards associated with higher functioning/fewer symptoms?
This could be a dissertation. I already have one, however. Too many variables as it is.
Change over time and quantitative measures-- I think that looking at the relation answers important issues for psychiatrists and laypersons alike.
Keep in mind that this is not a randomly assigned experiment. We will never know for sure whether posting a lot (for example) *causes* improved mental health. We will only know that they are related.
-ll
Posted by Declan on December 2, 2006, at 15:21:23
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 2, 2006, at 14:46:39
Risky posting behaviour is interesting.
I do it because, like Blanche, I need to depend on the kindness of strangers.
But risky posting behaviour could be perhaps better defined than just by the board on which the post occurs.
But how?
Posted by SatinDoll on December 2, 2006, at 19:23:05
In reply to more research here, posted by Dr. Bob on December 1, 2006, at 13:16:52
Well okay I have been in therapy for almost 2 years, and have learned a lot. But I have learned more on how a healthy mental person thinks and lives their life from a course I am taking in Abnormal Psy. I believe it is important to know how to cope but it is also good to define and work torwards a good mental state, but if you don't know what it is, how can you get there?
I believe everyone has some issued to improve for ultimate mental health.I don't believe most people are ever there 100%. We could learn what healty people do to maintain their health, maybe have guest speakers, perhaps try out the new ideas and report back to how they helped.
I could list the stuff I learned in class if you like for some ideas.
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2006, at 22:45:07
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by SatinDoll on December 2, 2006, at 19:23:05
But how do you know if the healthy people are really mentally healthy? A degree or title doesn't guarantee a thing. Heah maybe pdocs should give out guarantees on the meds they prescribe or the advise? Love Phillipa brainstorming with a sick brain
Posted by Daisym on December 3, 2006, at 1:42:08
In reply to Re: more research here » SatinDoll, posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2006, at 22:45:07
It would be interesting to incorporate some of the new nuerobiology findings linking journaling and integration and think about how a board such as Babble contributes to left brain/right brain narratives.
Of course, those attracted here are far more likely to be writers in the first place.
Posted by madeline on December 3, 2006, at 7:49:36
In reply to more research here, posted by Dr. Bob on December 1, 2006, at 13:16:52
Lately, the psychobabble board has been fascinating me.
It appears to be an enriched population of folks that are resistant to drug therapy.
Not only that, I am really interested in what factors cause people to post there rather than discuss med problems, questions, concerns with their pdocs or other physicians.
Is it distrust of their docs?
Is it the fact that it is anonymous?
Is it that psychobabble is more available than their docs?
Is it that their docs won't tell them things about their drugs? Are they too afraid to ask?
Are certain people with specific diagnosis more likely to post there?Etc...
Granted it is a skewed, self-reporting population, but it might be a source for some hypothesis generating data.
Maddie
ps. If you do this, I want to be an author. ;)
Posted by SatinDoll on December 3, 2006, at 15:34:35
In reply to Re: more research here » SatinDoll, posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2006, at 22:45:07
> But how do you know if the healthy people are really mentally healthy? A degree or title doesn't guarantee a thing. Heah maybe pdocs should give out guarantees on the meds they prescribe or the advise? Love Phillipa brainstorming with a sick brain
Hi Phillipa,
Most people are mentally healthy and there are ways they live their life that contribute to a help keep mentally healthy. Healthy people still encounter problems, but the way they deal with them, and the way they prevent them in the first place, is one way to keep healthy. Good mental health isn't a label someone gives you, it is living life to the fullest in many ways which gives you personal satisfaction. You can still have a disorder and still have good mental health. There are several others, but right now I have to get back to my school work. Having good mental health is being happy mostly about who you are and your life. Life gives you satisfaction, living life feels good, there are things to do to improve your mental health.
Posted by zazenduckie on December 3, 2006, at 16:56:25
In reply to Re: more research here » Phillipa, posted by SatinDoll on December 3, 2006, at 15:34:35
I think it would be interesting to see how people define their disorders or illnesses-psychological, biological ,combination,neither etc.
And to see if those definitions became more similiar as a group as time went on.
And to measure other things like level of optimism etc. level of participation, measures of depression or anxiety.
I wonder if the group is becoming more and more homogenous, or more diverse or neither.
Do people who begin further from the norm here tend to leave early or do they tend to grow more like the group or neither?
Is the group as a whole changing?
As far as measuring these things I think a multiple choice quiz rating all these factors could be set up like the quiz before registration.
It could force people to fill out the rating scales once each month before being allowed to continue posting. that would guarantee more participation. At the same time anyone could opt out of the research there at that time and still go on to participate in the board.After 18 months or so tot up the numbers ,make some graphs and post it on a board and let all the participants make clever suggestions about interpretation.
I think research by a group would have to be rather simple more like a little organized group introspection.
Who says the age of the scientific amateur is gone?
I do hope you remember your problems last time with complaints from the participants and questions about consent etc. If you used some form of measurements rather than quotes as you did last time maybe people wouldn't feel as exposed. Are you asking for the board to research itself as a way of avoiding getting permission from the research board at your university? Does the APA invite contributions from amateurs?? That seems awfully broadminded of them. Is the P psychology or psychiatry?
I assume your planning to get money to bring all your co-presenters to the convention with you?
Your friend
zazenduckie
Posted by Honore on December 5, 2006, at 13:41:47
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by LlurpsieBlossom on December 2, 2006, at 14:46:39
Is the babble-o-meter a valid instrument of psychological testing?
I haven't checked the babble-o-meter. What type of psychological or other test is it, and what is its validity?
Honore
Posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2006, at 15:09:48
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by Honore on December 5, 2006, at 13:41:47
There are four measures on the Babbleometer. Personally, I just use the CES-D, but the others are interesting, too. Here is a very brief sketch of the tests based on a quick internet search (no time to evaluate the sources, sorry):
CES-D This is a measure of symptoms of Depression that was designed by the Center for Epidemiologic Studies
http://www.assessments.com/catalog/CES_D.htm
From that site:
The Center for Epidemiological Studies-Depression Scale (CES-D) is a 20-item instrument that was developed by the National Institute of Mental
Health to detect major or clinical depression in adolescents and adults.
The CES-D has 4 separate factors:
* Depressive affect
* Somatic symptoms
* Positive affect
* Interpersonal relations
The questions are easy to answer and cover most of the areas included in the diagnostic criteria for depression. It has been used in urban and rural populations, and in cross-cultural studies of depression. Studies using the CES-D indicate that it has very good internal consistency, acceptable test-retest stability, and construct validity.SF-36 The 36-Item Short Form is a measure of health-related quality of life.
http://www.sf-36.org/tools/sf36.shtml (too much to pare down, sorry)SRRS: The Social Readjustment Rating Scale is a measure of the stress (social readjustment) expected from events in your life.
http://chipts.ucla.edu/assessment/Assessment_Instruments/Assessment_files_new/assess_srrs.htm or tiny url: http://tinyurl.com/g69k4
References from this site:
* Holmes, T.H. & Rahe, R.H. (1967). The social readjustment rating scale. Journal of Psychosomatic Research, 11, 213-218.
* Horowitz, M., Schaefer, C., Hiroto, D., Wilner, N., and Levin, B. (1977). Life Event Questionnaires for Measuring Presumptive Stress. Psychosomatic Medicine 39(6): 413-431.
(Anectodotally, I've seen this measure used a lot and have used it myself. Can't speak to the vaildity, as I tend to use it as a way of beginning the dialog about stress and health versus to obtain a standardized score.)MOS-SSS the Medical Outcomes Study Social Support Survey is a measure of social support.
http://www.dfhcc.harvard.edu/?id=1281
From this site:
"Psychometric Stats (reliability, validity)
High convergent and discriminant validity of items. Fairly stable test-retest reliability over a one-year interval. All 4 subscales have alphas >.91.
Citations for referencing validity and reliability
Sherbourne CD, Stewart AL. The MOS social support survey. Social Science and Medicine, 1991; 32(6): 705-514. "hth,
gg
Posted by Honore on December 6, 2006, at 10:11:51
In reply to Babbleometer » Honore, posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2006, at 15:09:48
Thanks for that information, gg.
Honore
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2006, at 3:58:28
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by zazenduckie on December 3, 2006, at 16:56:25
Hi, everyone,
What an interesting variety of ideas! Here's one way to organize them:
1. Group dynamics
> all the different people and the way they get on
> The interaction of personalities, the way likes and dislikes arise, the way people express difficult feelings, the formation of factions2a. Surveys
> how people define their disorders or illnesses-psychological, biological, combination, neither etc.
> left brain/right brain narratives
> level of optimism etc. level of participation, measures of depression or anxiety
> number of symptoms/level of functioning
> the quality of medical advice
> what factors cause people to post here rather than discuss med problems with their pdocs or other physicians2b. Correlations
> how standardized measures of mental health relate to posting behavior, and self-reported accounts of current treatment
2c. Differences between boards
> any survey results
> post-length, posters per week, thread-length2d. Differences over time
> if measures become more similar as time went on, if the group becomes more homogenous or more diverse or neither
> if people who begin further from the norm tend to leave early or grow more like the group or neither
> if the group as a whole is changing3. Outcomes
> learn what healthy people do to maintain their health, try out the new ideas and report back to how they helped
> or even just report on how reading/posting helpsWhat do you think? Any other ideas?
In selecting a project, issues to consider will be (1) how a study would actually be done (procedures, measures, etc.) and (2) what the significance of the results would be...
> ps. If you do this, I want to be an author. ;)
If we do something, we'll need to track who does what so everyone gets credit for what they do. :-)
Bob
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 8:07:24
In reply to Re: more research here, posted by zazenduckie on December 3, 2006, at 16:56:25
> I do hope you remember your problems last time with complaints from the participants and questions about consent etc. If you used some form of measurements rather than quotes as you did last time maybe people wouldn't feel as exposed. Are you asking for the board to research itself as a way of avoiding getting permission from the research board at your university? Does the APA invite contributions from amateurs?? That seems awfully broadminded of them. Is the P psychology or psychiatry?
>
> I assume your planning to get money to bring all your co-presenters to the convention with you?
>
>
>
> Your friend
>
> zazenduckie
>
>
Posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 11:55:16
In reply to Re: one way to organize the ideas, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2006, at 3:58:28
Did you notice that you totally ignored all the suggestions that we study the blocking system?
Thought this was going to be poster generated research.
There seemed to be interest among posters.
Let's be objective and impartial here.
Please rework your list to include these suggestions too.
Hi, everyone,
>
> What an interesting variety of ideas! Here's one way to organize them:
>
> 1. Group dynamics
>
> > all the different people and the way they get on
> > The interaction of personalities, the way likes and dislikes arise, the way people express difficult feelings, the formation of factions
>
> 2a. Surveys
>
> > how people define their disorders or illnesses-psychological, biological, combination, neither etc.
> > left brain/right brain narratives
> > level of optimism etc. level of participation, measures of depression or anxiety
> > number of symptoms/level of functioning
> > the quality of medical advice
> > what factors cause people to post here rather than discuss med problems with their pdocs or other physicians
>
> 2b. Correlations
>
> > how standardized measures of mental health relate to posting behavior, and self-reported accounts of current treatment
>
> 2c. Differences between boards
>
> > any survey results
> > post-length, posters per week, thread-length
>
> 2d. Differences over time
>
> > if measures become more similar as time went on, if the group becomes more homogenous or more diverse or neither
> > if people who begin further from the norm tend to leave early or grow more like the group or neither
> > if the group as a whole is changing
>
> 3. Outcomes
>
> > learn what healthy people do to maintain their health, try out the new ideas and report back to how they helped
> > or even just report on how reading/posting helps
>
> What do you think? Any other ideas?
>
> In selecting a project, issues to consider will be (1) how a study would actually be done (procedures, measures, etc.) and (2) what the significance of the results would be...
>
> > ps. If you do this, I want to be an author. ;)
>
> If we do something, we'll need to track who does what so everyone gets credit for what they do. :-)
>
> Bob
Posted by sunnydays on December 8, 2006, at 13:20:23
In reply to You OMITTED all the suggestions to study blocking! » Dr. Bob, posted by zazenduckie on December 8, 2006, at 11:55:16
While I think studying blocking would be interesting, I'm not sure if Dr. Bob was saying this would be completely poster-generated research. After all, he should have final say in the topic if it's his name and professional reputation being associated with it, I think. Also, he would probably end up doing a majority of the work in terms of writing any findings or organizing a presentation just because of how hard it is given group dynamics in any group to get something big like this accomplished in any reasonable amount of time without someone acting as a leader and taking on a lot of the work.
And after all, it is Dr. Bob's site. I suppose he can ignore whatever he wants...
sunnydays
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