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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 236 to 260 of 412. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2006, at 11:47:35
In reply to Re: Trigger POLICY » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on March 20, 2006, at 23:17:57
Take care, Lar. And you know where to find me if you want to, for any reason at all.
(I don't need copies of your emails. I have a fair number of my own. It can be enormously frustrating, I know. I try to look at it as the flip side of Dr. Bob's better qualities, like his unflappability.)
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 21, 2006, at 13:24:36
In reply to Re: thanks :-) (nm) » Gabbix2, posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 1:51:12
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 15:53:00
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 3:18:38
Hi Doctor.
> her uncivil comments
I don't know why this phrase deserved to be judged uncivil. Isn't it a mirror image of what you say to others here all the time by judging their posts uncivil and doing the PBC/blocking thing?
Perhaps I need a tweaking of my civility radar. I haven't needed to use it for quite some time.
It might be enlightening and constructive for you to describe why Larry's comment was uncivil. I would like to know so that I might better understand the guidelines for communicating with civility.
Do you feel that Larry's comment is tantamount to labelling someone as being an uncivil person?
- Scott
Posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:02:34
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 3:18:38
Can I ask why you didn't give Our Dearest Lar a PBC or a request for rephrase? Isn't this the process for escalation to a block???
I'se very confused. What's up with this?
Thank you,ClearSkies
Posted by Deneb on March 21, 2006, at 16:33:42
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:02:34
> Can I ask why you didn't give Our Dearest Lar a PBC or a request for rephrase? Isn't this the process for escalation to a block???
>
> I'se very confused. What's up with this?
> Thank you,
>
> ClearSkiesI've not gotten many PBCs, maybe two or even only one? I mostly get blocks. I think a warning is only guaranteed the first time you are uncivil. After that, you can get blocked without a warning. At least that's what happens to me. :-(
Are certain acts of incivility worse than other ones? How come I don't get warnings? I don't even remember what I got blocked for. Does anyone know?
Deneb*
Posted by zenhussy on March 21, 2006, at 16:45:19
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:02:34
> Can I ask why you didn't give Our Dearest Lar a PBC or a request for rephrase? Isn't this the process for escalation to a block???
> I'se very confused. What's up with this?
> Thank you,
> ClearSkiesThis is the timeline for this mega long thread and the PBCs, PRTs and so forth. Once a poster has a record like Larry's they are presumed to know the rules and are not given the same warnings as "new rule breakers". Larry has had numerous PBCs, PRTs, PBSs and blocks over his years here. Based on that history Dr. Bob doesn't give warnings as he's already spent years giving warnings of a similar nature to Dear Lar. We find no reason for confusion with this administrative action as it follows the history of admin. decisions made on this site.
********
Re: please be civil » Larry Hoover
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 4:48:35In reply to My apologies, fellow Babblers, posted by Larry Hoover on March 5, 2006, at 10:11:56
> I thought I could speak calmly about this topic, but I have discovered that it is too upsetting. I find myself taking on individual posters, instead of debating the merits. I am truly sorry.
I'm glad you see that happening. However:
> Is it civil, to knowingly ignore the provocative nature of your posts? Even when you know what happens because of it? Is it civil to sow emotional land-mines on the Boards of Babble? And, what is your harvest?
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
But please also don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
One possibility is to ask another poster to be your "civility buddy" and preview posts before you submit them.
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/616516.html
********Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 7:57:24In reply to Re: please be civil » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 4:48:35
I shall. Thanks, Bob.
Lar
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/616529.html
********Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 9:03:51In reply to Re: please be civil » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 4:48:35
In response to a *joke* about George Bush (who I bet has never even heard of this place), you admonish the poster with a PBC:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060304/msgs/616456.html
And, in that admonishment, you specifically ask the poster to "be sensitive to their feelings".
Why on Earth am I having such a difficult time obtaining that same consideration, and protection?
Why?
I'm not hypothetical. I really do read posts here. I really do have my feelings hurt, over and over again. I'm not the only one, if you read this thread with even one eye open. Why are *you* not sensitive to the feelings of others, Dr. Bob? Why do I have to beg?
Lar
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/616547.html
********Re: thanks (nm) » Larry Hoover
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 13:33:21In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 7:57:24
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/616644.html
********Re: hurt feelings
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2006, at 13:33:26In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on March 6, 2006, at 9:03:51
> I'm not hypothetical. I really do read posts here. I really do have my feelings hurt, over and over again.
I'm sorry if you feel I'm turning my back on you. Would you at least agree that this would be a step in the right direction?
Bob
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/616645.html
********Re: please rephrase that » Larry Hoover
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2006, at 22:52:33In reply to Re: Am I the only one? » JenStar, posted by Larry Hoover on March 8, 2006, at 13:37:13
> Just knowing that it is the policy that someone cares whether or not I get triggered, and backs that up with some kind of authority, is very supportive. It helps me bounce back. It doesn't help me in the moment of finding the land-mine, but it helps afterwards.
It can be important to feel cared about by someone with authority. I understand that. I'm sorry you don't feel that here.
> > Plus, as I mentioned before, retroactive flagging could in fact be an option.
>
> And how do I know when that task has been completedYou can't know for sure, but on a busy board, give it a day?
> Would it be reasonable to toss a box of condoms into the lap of a woman who was seeking treatment after having unprotected sex with an HIV-positive man, and send her on her way, confident that all was well?
Would it have been reasonable, if condoms had been available, for her not to have used them because she considered them, um, barriers to participation?
> I don't want the job, as I said.
That's OK, others are willing to do it.
> I'm glad to see that you accept the idea of a core list of trigger subjects. That's big progress already.
Thanks, one step at a time...
> you, the insensitive (used in that rhetorical sense implied above)
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, even if rhetorical, could you please rephrase that?
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/617812.html
********Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 9, 2006, at 7:06:36In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2006, at 22:52:33
> > you, the insensitive (used in that rhetorical sense implied above)
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, even if rhetorical, could you please rephrase that?I used an abstract structure, and expressly selected the definition I intended, and I don't know what more to do that still has anything the meaning I wanted to convey. I can't think of a rephrasing. Will an apology do? I'm sorry I made uncivil inferences about anybody.
Now, would you please just let me go?
I'm a stranger in a strange land. Why couldn't I simply accept that if people heard me cry out for help, that it would be enough? I never had anybody just listen to me about a selfish thing. There was always a gauntlet to run, and I never once made it through. So, I am unprepared for how to do that simple thing. I put on the whole TV campaign, and wrote speeches. I was gearing up to march on the Capital....
That was intended to be self-deprecating humour, the last post I made to Jen. My way of acknowledging what a PITA I can be.
I *need* to go now.
Lar
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/617852.html
********Re: please rephrase that » Larry Hoover
Posted by AuntieMel on March 9, 2006, at 8:51:28In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on March 9, 2006, at 7:06:36
How about "those who don't get triggered"
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060225/msgs/617867.html
********Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Larry Hoover
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 3:18:38In reply to Re: Posting more difficult » itsme2003, posted by Larry Hoover on March 16, 2006, at 11:55:46
> she accused me of felony criminal conduct, and other uncivil things. ... She called me a criminal
> her uncivil comments
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused. Sorry, but I'm going to block you from posting for 6 weeks again.
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person. And I don't want anything bad to happen to you. In a crisis, please also get help in person. You may also wish to check out a listing compiled by a poster of helpful web pages on coping with crisis at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/Coping_with_crisis_001012507973
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
One possibility is to ask another poster to be your "civility buddy" and preview posts before you submit them.
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
> Clearing most of the mines from a minefield would not make me feel safe to walk there. Putting up a sign warning me away from the minefield would.
Warning: Larry, this site might be a minefield for you.
> Moderators or interested Babblers would have to "pick up after" posters who didn't comply?
Think of it as Babblers looking out for each other?
Bob
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060317/msgs/622754.html
Posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:51:39
In reply to Re: ample warnings and chances given » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on March 21, 2006, at 16:45:19
I've haven't figured out if anybody ever knew whether their history follows them or not...
best wishes always,
ClearSkies
Posted by zenhussy on March 21, 2006, at 16:57:27
In reply to Thank you, Zen!, posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:51:39
golly! this is news? based on time spent participating here and friendships forged we'd guess you and other longer time babblers would be able to see clear patterns of the doc's admin policies. our presentation was only to show yet another example of Dr. Bob giving ample chances and opportunities for a member to fall within the "current FAQ guidelines of civility".
we're sure there are years of similar types of threads from different posters showing the same admin actions of PBC, PRT, then blocking.
we don't have the link currently but Dr. Bob himself has said something to the effect of previous history has a major effect on how he bases his decisions.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 17:00:59
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 15:53:00
> What ever happened to
> The one-week cooling off blocks you were talking about? It seems that this would be a good time to see if that works.
>
> AuntieMelIt might or might not, let's discuss it with the other deputies.
> > her uncivil comments
>
> I don't know why this phrase deserved to be judged uncivil. Isn't it a mirror image of what you say to others here all the time
>
> - ScottIt is, but my role here is administrative.
Bob
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:03:19
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 15:53:00
Perhaps to deem one's words to be uncivil is to imply that one's intent was to be uncivil?
Is it the judging of intent that is the key to understanding this sanction?
Gotta think about this one some more.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:23:42
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » SLS, posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:03:19
I'm really not trying to be a wise guy. I'm just trying to dissect this thing so as to understand and perhaps demonstrate the concept of civility as it is practiced here. I'm not looking to imply that there is a paradox.
I think I can understand:
"her uncivil comments"
> Perhaps to deem one's words to be uncivil is to imply that one's intent was to be uncivil?
>
> Is it the judging of intent that is the key to understanding this sanction?I guess to judge that one's intent is to be uncivil is to imply that the person is himself uncivil - an uncivil person. To call someone uncivil is to put them down.
> Gotta think about this one some more.
I think I got the idea.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:26:16
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » SLS, posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:03:19
Sorry...
- Scott
Posted by AuntieMel on March 21, 2006, at 17:27:55
In reply to Re: blocks, posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 17:00:59
Good idea. I've just started that.
>> What ever happened to
>> The one-week cooling off blocks you were talking about? It seems that this would be a good time to see if that works.
>>
>> AuntieMel>It might or might not, let's discuss it with the >other deputies.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 21, 2006, at 17:29:31
In reply to Thank you, Zen!, posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 16:51:39
Posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:31:27
In reply to Re: blocks » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on March 21, 2006, at 17:27:55
>> The one-week cooling off blocks...
What's that?
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on March 21, 2006, at 17:35:51
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » SLS, posted by SLS on March 21, 2006, at 17:23:42
> > Perhaps to deem one's words to be uncivil is to imply that one's intent was to be uncivil?Since intent is difficult if not impossible to determine, I think rather, calling a post or a poster's actions uncivil could be akin to accusing the person of incivility. And since we are not to post anything that could lead to a person feeling accused (among other things), I think that's the phrase is not considered acceptable.
That's my take on it at least. Of course when I go on and on in other contexts about how one's words and behavior are separate from someone else's reactions, perceptions, interpretations, and feelings about them, I realize I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth.
I hate when that happens.
gg
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 21, 2006, at 17:56:23
In reply to Calling something or someone uncivil » SLS, posted by gardenergirl on March 21, 2006, at 17:35:51
Also, I don't remember Emmy accusing anyone of felonious criminal behaviour.
Maybe that's part of the reason? Was it the reinterpretation of what she actually said that made it uncivil?I really don't know, but I'm sure I'd remember that.
If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will let me know : )
Posted by gardenergirl on March 21, 2006, at 18:11:28
In reply to Re: Calling something or someone uncivil » gardenergirl, posted by Gabbix2 on March 21, 2006, at 17:56:23
> Also, I don't remember Emmy accusing anyone of felonious criminal behaviour.
I don't remember that, either. I'd have to go back and read that thread again. Not quite up to that tonight.
gg
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 21, 2006, at 18:14:49
In reply to Re: Calling something or someone uncivil » Gabbix2, posted by gardenergirl on March 21, 2006, at 18:11:28
Yeah, that's funny I almost put at the bottom of my post "But I'm *not* going to go through that thread right now"
Posted by henrietta on March 21, 2006, at 19:37:17
In reply to Re: blocks, posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2006, at 17:00:59
Surely you know your role here isn't simply "administrative". You are modeling behavior, judging behavior, and attempting to direct behavior into patterns YOU deem positive,
"healthy", or just plain less troublesome. (Others may disagree with what constitutes healthy or positive behavior.) You model labeling behavior, then punish others for labeling behavior. Doesn't that ever give you pause? Ever? Even in the dark hours of the night? It would certainly cause many a sleepless night for me, and I'm not even playing god to hundreds of vulnerable people. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.
Posted by henrietta on March 21, 2006, at 20:12:44
In reply to Re: blocks » Dr. Bob, posted by henrietta on March 21, 2006, at 19:37:17
I forgot to mention that it feels to me that what you do NOT model is sensitive behavior. Where I come from, if a person is honestly trying to communicate something that is important to him/her, the response "live and learn", for example, is felt as being extremely dismissive and insensitive. Short one-liners to heart-felt
communications are widely perceived to be dismissive and insensitive. I can't tell you how often I've felt kicked in the stomach by your responses to other posters---and I do mean this absolutely sincerely. OTHER POSTERS. Nothing personal. I've had no personal stake in these exchanges. I've merely been a witness, but I've felt deeply hurt and angry. I don't know. I just feel you really need to sit down in a deep place and question yourself.
Posted by ClearSkies on March 21, 2006, at 21:14:30
In reply to Re: Please stay cool, Clear and Zen! (nm), posted by AuntieMel on March 21, 2006, at 17:29:31
Posted by special_k on March 21, 2006, at 23:41:51
In reply to Re: blocks » Dr. Bob, posted by henrietta on March 21, 2006, at 19:37:17
hy hen :-)
i think... it is a hard one...
I think... Other 'experts' do have different ideas re civility. Kali Munroe, for instance... And her coming close to being dubbed 'uncivil' when she was here as a guest expert on conflict resolution (spot the irony). I think it is right to say that Dr Bob has something of a fairly idiosyncratic notion of civility... And he might well be stricter than most. But then in terms of the comments people make... Do you think it is fair to say that this board is safer than others in the sense that accusing comments, judging comments, hurtful comments, hateful comments, sarcastic comments are less likely to go unremarked or without consequences.
I mean... Some people might prefer that. But then when someone directs those things our way it can be harder to take...
Maybe the issue is that... He is a little too idiosyncratic / strict with the civility rules?
I might be inclined to agree...
> and attempting to direct behavior into patterns YOU deem positive,
> "healthy", or just plain less troublesome. (Others may disagree with what constitutes healthy or positive behavior.)Yeah...
> You model labeling behavior, then punish others for labeling behavior.
Well... I'm not so sure that works...
Consider a case where someone says (and I'll use me as an example)
you are a bitch special_k and i wish you would just f*ck off.
do you think there should be consequences for someone saying that to me?
if so... then maybe the problem isn't so much the 'uncivil' judgements... the blockings... so much as it is the 'borderline cases' of incivility... and the severity of the blockings...
so...
how does the one week cool off block work?
if the moderators have sympathy???
Posted by henrietta on March 22, 2006, at 2:21:15
In reply to Re: blocks, posted by special_k on March 21, 2006, at 23:41:51
Hi, Special.
It's late, I won't make much sense. Yes, I think it's more about the borderline cases and the severity of blocks. And a lot of other stuff
I haven't the wherewithal to go into at this time of night. (I really should be asleep. Other things on my mind, real life things.) Oh, I can't think....
Just wanted to say hi since I probably won't be able to check back in for a while. I'll be away. I hope you're well, or as well as possible.
You're in my thoughts.
hen
Posted by special_k on March 22, 2006, at 3:09:58
In reply to Re: blocks » special_k, posted by henrietta on March 22, 2006, at 2:21:15
Hey. I'll catch up with you when you get back :-)
Yeah it is hard...
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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